What makes you sure that the CM's should we sign them turn to crap?
If Poch takes over, how does he fix this mess?
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
Because players still need to fit into a team. They still need to play in a system that gets the best out of them. And while this applies to all players, it especially applies to young players, they still need to be coached and developed
Poch was below us with a better squad, playing terribly. Why are you so sure he would have us playing so much better?
You can't polish a turd
So the solution is to give up and stick with worst manager of the lot, sounds like a great idea. Don’t know why you’d either bother being a fan anymore if that’s your attitude.
No you still don't get it.......what's the point getting a better manager if nothing ever changes? Jose has won 25 major trophies. LVG had won loads. Both went wrong because of power mad Ed.
Ole isn't good enough for job but sacking him and paying him off plus getting new manager with loads of new players will cost a fortune and probably end up same way.
I'd rather now stick with Ole than see us start all over again under same regime that simply doesn't work. We need the Saudis or someone else to rescue us really. Can't see us ever winning the league again under the Glazers tbh. Without Fergie we've not come close.
Because his squad was stale and he had the same problem then as he did today. Players running down contracts, key personelle wanting out and a general lack of motivation with one foot out the door. He needed 3-4 players in the summer of 2018 let alone this year and never got any help from Levy.
I suppose it's not, but it's the word I chose. We have played like a right bunch of them for the last 6 months...
Actually you can, if mythbusters are to be believed.
The problem is he can't, nobody can fix this useless mess of a squad, we don't have a decent starting 11 and are rightly where we should be in the league. Poch will struggle and end up being sacked in 18 months as per the norm.
Vast majority of spurs players were nobodies before poch coached them.. our midfield is weak but our players arent trash.. they were good under jose until he unsettled squad
You can manage a team well. For reference see plenty of other PL teams. (Shouldn't need to point this out) Sheffield's turd was pretty well polished the other day.
Shittest post of the year so far. Not many weeks left, you've a good chance of winning the title.
I'd like to ask a question. If we had a competent DOF(like Ocampos) right now who instead of Ole is the one talking about long term rebuild, vision for the club, identifying young and hungry players who want to play for the club, promoting youth players, no more mercenaries.... Basically all the things Ole says when talking about the future of the club. Would you guys still want Ole to coach us?
He doesn't 
Well he's so special i'd imagine all he'll needs to do is click his fingers.
Saudi’s aren’t coming in mate, it’s not happening. Owners won’t change, CEO won’t change, no DOF is coming in so only thing that can change is the manager. Does it work? Probably not but all you are suggesting is just give up and change nothing.
Good post.
I think that this is the stark reality, which is why I am not clamouring to sack Solskjaer and hire Poch, I'm just not convinced that improving results will be that simple, and I'm concerned that 12 months on, supporters are calling for Poch to be sacked....rinse & repeat.
I think you missed his point. His point is the two rubbish managers we had finished 7th and hell knows where we are will finish under Ole. So whilst things remain the same the best we can do it actually hire a competent manager. Maybe one that’s LVG and Mourinho quality. Who plays good football and can develop player. They do exist.
The owners will change. The CEO will change. A DOF will come in. You just can't but a time frame on it so you drag everyone else down to your levels of neg head barbituastan.
Just FYI think the reason Spurs did so poorly this season isn't really down to Poch per se. Yes, managers do sometimes reach the limits of what they can do with squads when they're with a team for a longish period of time. However, the reality is that too many spurs players wanted out. Now, this is partly down to them not feeling they were paid their worth and party because Poch wanted rid, and then a combination of the two, one preceding the other. So, contract wise, the things that have come to a head this season in regards to players are as follows:
Alderweireld - Running down his contract, leaving in the summer, has wanted out for a season a half now since it was clear spurs wouldn't pay him what he felt he was worth (was one of the top 3 cbs in the prem for the last few years)
Rose - Wanted out for a season a half again, was linked to us, suffered from depression. Still wants out. Again, not being paid what he felt he was worth. Was arguably the best LB in the league for a couple of seasons.
Dier - Wanted to leave last season.
Wanyama - Wanted to leave, still does AFAIK. Move to brugge fell through, was on the verge of being sold.
Aurier - Wanted to leave, has publically stated he still might at the start of the season.
Vertonghen - Running down his contract, leaving in the summer.
Deli Ali - Went totally off the boil, rumours that his personal life had taken over his focus and was no longer motivated (This one may fall on poch)
Eriksen - Wants to leave, leaving in the summer- no longer putting the effort in on the pitch that he once was, has been benched because of it.
So that's 8 first team players who are all unhappy and want out, the majority due to not being paid their worth. I think it must be really difficult to run a team where 80% of the first team want to leave due to not feeling valued by the club. It's definitely caused divides and bad atmosphere within the team, something which Poch himself has alluded to. I don't think he's suddenly become a bad manager or lost his passion, I simply think like any working environment, if half of the team don't want to be there, their motivation will drop even if it's not a conscious thing as they are no longer invested in the team or the vision for the project.
Alderweireld - Running down his contract, leaving in the summer, has wanted out for a season a half now since it was clear spurs wouldn't pay him what he felt he was worth (was one of the top 3 cbs in the prem for the last few years)
Rose - Wanted out for a season a half again, was linked to us, suffered from depression. Still wants out. Again, not being paid what he felt he was worth. Was arguably the best LB in the league for a couple of seasons.
Dier - Wanted to leave last season.
Wanyama - Wanted to leave, still does AFAIK. Move to brugge fell through, was on the verge of being sold.
Aurier - Wanted to leave, has publically stated he still might at the start of the season.
Vertonghen - Running down his contract, leaving in the summer.
Deli Ali - Went totally off the boil, rumours that his personal life had taken over his focus and was no longer motivated (This one may fall on poch)
Eriksen - Wants to leave, leaving in the summer- no longer putting the effort in on the pitch that he once was, has been benched because of it.
So that's 8 first team players who are all unhappy and want out, the majority due to not being paid their worth. I think it must be really difficult to run a team where 80% of the first team want to leave due to not feeling valued by the club. It's definitely caused divides and bad atmosphere within the team, something which Poch himself has alluded to. I don't think he's suddenly become a bad manager or lost his passion, I simply think like any working environment, if half of the team don't want to be there, their motivation will drop even if it's not a conscious thing as they are no longer invested in the team or the vision for the project.
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You're right, and this post will likely be ignored later down the page as someone else will come out with "but he got sacked by Tottenham".
Such threads annoy me so much. As were supposed to know what poch needs to do. If we did we would be managers not posters!
The fact is he needs to find out what he has to do and hes the best man for that job. Not ole who thinks fast footy with youngsters is the way.
The fact is he needs to find out what he has to do and hes the best man for that job. Not ole who thinks fast footy with youngsters is the way.
I’m surprised there are fans turning their nose up at Pochettino all of a sudden now he’s been sacked. If you asked fans on here 12 months ago to swap Mou for Poch, it would have been a no-brainier.
Reality is he’s the best available coach out there. He fell out with the players and the board at Spurs, the team underperformed, he got let go, so what??? Seems to be the norm in football everywhere these days.
I think Spurs problems with certain players looking to leave were as much to blame.
Reality is he’s the best available coach out there. He fell out with the players and the board at Spurs, the team underperformed, he got let go, so what??? Seems to be the norm in football everywhere these days.
I think Spurs problems with certain players looking to leave were as much to blame.
I've been keen on Poch for a long time given his track record with budget limitations, developing young players, style of football etc. Just the idea of bringing him in gives me hope. But I'm starting to doubt that United have the necessary fundamentals for his kind of culture to really take root. He seems to rely on a strong collective mindset for achievement, which he instills in the players through his own personal charisma. He demands really hard work, and comes down like a ton of bricks on individualistic expressions which go against the pillars of his team ethics. His methods require a lot of power. Is it really possible to implement something like that at United these days?
This is just a fairly simple theory, but the way I see the club in the post Ferguson era is essentially like a multi-billion pound hoax. A phantasmal football club. When portraying itself to the outside world, its about honoring the legacy of this or that legend, playing exciting football, competing for the biggest trophies and so on. But inside, protected by intricate contracts and NDA's, the basic logic running through the club is a thoroughly commercial one. Management considers football a necessary evil in order to keep the asset value of the club stable, while trying to drum up as much public attention as possible to entice sponsors with. While the Glazers siphon off their cut of the profits. Players and managers are brought in and shipped out based mainly on this wholly economic operating principle. Football success is welcome on the side, but never prioritized for its own sake. It's all about making money, while retaining the veneer of a top level football club to the outside world.
Players and the people managing their affairs will realize this after a while, and it will affect them in ways that are not conducive to success on the pitch. They'll realize that United is not a place to win major trophies and make your mark as a footballer. The competition is so fierce now in international football that clubs not working as a unit to achieve, will fall behind, and at best linger around outside of the elite. So if you won't be winning glory with United, what can you get here, and why would agents try to get their clients in the club? Money and attention. Coming to United will fuel your social media reach, and bring you a much larger wage than your footballing abilities/record would otherwise merit. You'll have a huge audience every week, and the highlights you produce will make you more relevant to sponsors. You won't win much while doing so, but that clothing line or charity you've been thinking about launching could get a real boost here. If nothing else, the wages on their own will set you up for a comfortable life.
In a smaller club this could still work on the pitch too, but not at a club of United's stature. Every loss is scrutinized and held up against historical achievements and the success of rivals, because of the commercially grounded need to maintain the illusion of United as an elite club. As a player you'll be feeling the pressure generated by outside forces, but inside the club little changes. Your under-performing team mates are given new contracts, and the right players are not brought in to strengthen the team. You get a washed-up Sanchez or malcontent Di Maria instead of a Kroos or Vidal. Managers are picked on their PR value, given limited control, and no continuity of thought or planning is discernible in football operations. The only continuity is a commercial one, humming in the background wherever you step on club premises. This is devastating to the efforts of building a team spirit based on the promise of collective achievement, which is necessary in order to win the biggest trophies. It's discouraging to ambitious players, and even the ones who come here will soon be under the grey cloud of expected but impossible achievement.
I really doubt Poch or any manager would make that big of a difference given the structural impediments currently miring football at United. But then again, I can't see him being worse than Ole.
This is just a fairly simple theory, but the way I see the club in the post Ferguson era is essentially like a multi-billion pound hoax. A phantasmal football club. When portraying itself to the outside world, its about honoring the legacy of this or that legend, playing exciting football, competing for the biggest trophies and so on. But inside, protected by intricate contracts and NDA's, the basic logic running through the club is a thoroughly commercial one. Management considers football a necessary evil in order to keep the asset value of the club stable, while trying to drum up as much public attention as possible to entice sponsors with. While the Glazers siphon off their cut of the profits. Players and managers are brought in and shipped out based mainly on this wholly economic operating principle. Football success is welcome on the side, but never prioritized for its own sake. It's all about making money, while retaining the veneer of a top level football club to the outside world.
Players and the people managing their affairs will realize this after a while, and it will affect them in ways that are not conducive to success on the pitch. They'll realize that United is not a place to win major trophies and make your mark as a footballer. The competition is so fierce now in international football that clubs not working as a unit to achieve, will fall behind, and at best linger around outside of the elite. So if you won't be winning glory with United, what can you get here, and why would agents try to get their clients in the club? Money and attention. Coming to United will fuel your social media reach, and bring you a much larger wage than your footballing abilities/record would otherwise merit. You'll have a huge audience every week, and the highlights you produce will make you more relevant to sponsors. You won't win much while doing so, but that clothing line or charity you've been thinking about launching could get a real boost here. If nothing else, the wages on their own will set you up for a comfortable life.
In a smaller club this could still work on the pitch too, but not at a club of United's stature. Every loss is scrutinized and held up against historical achievements and the success of rivals, because of the commercially grounded need to maintain the illusion of United as an elite club. As a player you'll be feeling the pressure generated by outside forces, but inside the club little changes. Your under-performing team mates are given new contracts, and the right players are not brought in to strengthen the team. You get a washed-up Sanchez or malcontent Di Maria instead of a Kroos or Vidal. Managers are picked on their PR value, given limited control, and no continuity of thought or planning is discernible in football operations. The only continuity is a commercial one, humming in the background wherever you step on club premises. This is devastating to the efforts of building a team spirit based on the promise of collective achievement, which is necessary in order to win the biggest trophies. It's discouraging to ambitious players, and even the ones who come here will soon be under the grey cloud of expected but impossible achievement.
I really doubt Poch or any manager would make that big of a difference given the structural impediments currently miring football at United. But then again, I can't see him being worse than Ole.
Isn't that what poch is good at? Let's not pretend he's some sort of tactical mastermind.
The main reason (imo) Jose was sacked was because of the standard toxicity he creates in the dressing room on season 3 of the club he’s at plus he started to criticise the board for not allowing him to get players he wanted such as Maguire.
The proof of the pudding is that Ole’s record this season is currently worse than when they sacked Jose, but as long as he keeps the board sweet by not criticising the lack of signings that was so evident last Sunday he is going nowhere
As long as Ole doesn’t drive Utd over a cliff results wise (I.e lose say 4-5 games on the spin) they will be happy to keep him.
The 2 things that Ed/the board are content with are
1: Bleeding the club dry
2. That the manager doesn’t moan or complain about lack of sufficient funds to get players whilst they bleed the club dry.
Point 2 is the reason Ole is staying and Poch is not coming.
I think the biggest aspect is his eye for talent. He showed that in Espanyol and Tottenham, getting unknown good players at great price.
Fair to say he's 150 times better than Mourinho or Ole in that regard
Fair to say he's 150 times better than Mourinho or Ole in that regard
I think this is rather defeatist, it's not like the Glazers and Woodward are making our managers work on a shoestring budget. Jose was handed close to half a billion and nearly 3/4s of his signings were duds, problems only emerged when he demanded more money to cover for the mistakes that he made in the market and blamed the owners. It's not like we are City who can afford to blow £80m on Stones and Otamendi and still have another £60m or so to spend on Laporte.
Fergie was successful under the Glazers, I am one of their biggest critics around esp Woodward but let's not kid ourselves that we can't succeed with the budget they allow their managers to spend. It's just a matter of the football people making the right choices and taking a gamble or two on academy kids and on punts like James once in a while.
If Pochettino can come in, he was Woodward's reported first choice after all and gets something like £300m over a couple of seasons I am sure he can improve us and get us competing at the top end of the table soon. He just needs to resist the temptation of believing that only £80m players will give him solutions because for every overpriced Declan Rice there is always a bargain like Marc Roca on the continent.
A few solid additions in midfield and the forward line coupled with improving the players we do have is what we need then when we have stabilized in the top four we can then sign that game changing forward that can transform our attack into a title challenging one. He has done a similar job at Spurs and we have the resources to pull the project onto the next level.
So is that part of the reason they kept AF on do you think ? After all now, that is what a yes man based on what you said is, after all how can we forget this little humdinger "no value in the transfer market"
Oh, surprise. Another crappy thread devoted to Pochettino by a bunch of fanboys.
The debates are endless on here about whose “fault” it is—our situation, I mean. I have news for you, it’s 23% the board, 29% Woodward, 34% the squad/players and 14% Ole.
Seriously, there is no nuance these days, black and white only.
I can tell you this, the most overrated manager in the history of the EPL won’t turn us into a CL winning side again. A strategic plan to rebuild the structure of the club from the academy to scouting, squad improvement and finally the manager, will. The sooner this Poch faction realizes he’s not the silver bullet, we can all get back to complaining about the squad.
It’s going to take patience, fellas.
The debates are endless on here about whose “fault” it is—our situation, I mean. I have news for you, it’s 23% the board, 29% Woodward, 34% the squad/players and 14% Ole.
Seriously, there is no nuance these days, black and white only.
I can tell you this, the most overrated manager in the history of the EPL won’t turn us into a CL winning side again. A strategic plan to rebuild the structure of the club from the academy to scouting, squad improvement and finally the manager, will. The sooner this Poch faction realizes he’s not the silver bullet, we can all get back to complaining about the squad.
It’s going to take patience, fellas.
I'd be terrified if Manchester United listen to some of you here and the board's next signing is a manager whose team did just about as well as we have done this season, managed to take his team on a quick downward trajectory after making the CL final and losing it and according to some credible reports is not a good communicator with his gloom showing time and time again the last six months or so.
Pochettino is damaged goods, over-rated and not remotely in the group of outstanding managers with the trophies to prove it who mess up but always or usually will get another chance a la Jose. Ole's tactics are sometimes worrying and we need somebody with him from outside but this Pochettino obsession is ridiculous and reckless.
Pochettino is damaged goods, over-rated and not remotely in the group of outstanding managers with the trophies to prove it who mess up but always or usually will get another chance a la Jose. Ole's tactics are sometimes worrying and we need somebody with him from outside but this Pochettino obsession is ridiculous and reckless.
Sort out the midfield in the transfer window. Nothing else will help. Ole can do that himself.
When Pogba and McTominay come back we will win a lot of games.
When Pogba and McTominay come back we will win a lot of games.
The first thing Poch needs to do is snuff out those who are not qualified to be at United. That includes coaches, backroom staff and players who are overstaying their welcome, not because of what they know, but who they know.
Get rid of Carrick, send Phelan back to manage Australian kids in the park and anyone that is involved in this current freak show clown experiment that we're currently undergoing. Have Mckenna coach the Under 18's and get own his coaches and touch pads that he was using at spurs
Get rid of the scouts, every single one of them if permitted. I mean there was talks of Phelan bringing in Darren Fletcher as one of the head scouts responsible for organizing the department even though he had no experience. And you wonder why we have the club warning us off players like Bruno Fernandos on the basis that he wouldn't fit Ole's system and pass completion wasn't deemed good enough while pereira is our talisman in midfield along with fred stringing together an array of side way safe passes. They were right about one thing though, that he wouldn't fit the system at the club, because there isn't one.
Poch then needs to get rid of anyone who is on using Manchester United as a training crash course to learn a specific job role and bring in modern world class coaches who don't need bicycle stabilizers to see them through the day.
Then he needs to call Ashley Young, Phil Jones, and Mata into his office for a private meeting, thank them for their services and then rip up each of their contracts in front of them
Once all of that is cleaned up, he can negotiate with Woodwork on reassessing the ambassador roles and have some kind of media blackout on the class of 92 so they don't stick their oar's in the daily running's of the club and stir up shite in the media since the moment he joins, he will become a target and expectations and pressure for him will be completely on a whole new level, and be judged to an entirely different set of standards since he's not one of their pals. The moment Poch drops his guard or doesn't have us winning a few games beautifully in style. If he dares have us grind out an away win, they will pounce like wolves on their soapboxes about ''how long should United wait to see decent attacking football''
After all that's cleared up, he can be left to get on the job in his own way, find his own signings and methods that are relevant to today's game without limiting himself to old boy friends, keeping staff/players on because he feels sorry for them or they are good servants or signing players based on geographic.
Get rid of Carrick, send Phelan back to manage Australian kids in the park and anyone that is involved in this current freak show clown experiment that we're currently undergoing. Have Mckenna coach the Under 18's and get own his coaches and touch pads that he was using at spurs
Get rid of the scouts, every single one of them if permitted. I mean there was talks of Phelan bringing in Darren Fletcher as one of the head scouts responsible for organizing the department even though he had no experience. And you wonder why we have the club warning us off players like Bruno Fernandos on the basis that he wouldn't fit Ole's system and pass completion wasn't deemed good enough while pereira is our talisman in midfield along with fred stringing together an array of side way safe passes. They were right about one thing though, that he wouldn't fit the system at the club, because there isn't one.
Poch then needs to get rid of anyone who is on using Manchester United as a training crash course to learn a specific job role and bring in modern world class coaches who don't need bicycle stabilizers to see them through the day.
Then he needs to call Ashley Young, Phil Jones, and Mata into his office for a private meeting, thank them for their services and then rip up each of their contracts in front of them
Once all of that is cleaned up, he can negotiate with Woodwork on reassessing the ambassador roles and have some kind of media blackout on the class of 92 so they don't stick their oar's in the daily running's of the club and stir up shite in the media since the moment he joins, he will become a target and expectations and pressure for him will be completely on a whole new level, and be judged to an entirely different set of standards since he's not one of their pals. The moment Poch drops his guard or doesn't have us winning a few games beautifully in style. If he dares have us grind out an away win, they will pounce like wolves on their soapboxes about ''how long should United wait to see decent attacking football''
After all that's cleared up, he can be left to get on the job in his own way, find his own signings and methods that are relevant to today's game without limiting himself to old boy friends, keeping staff/players on because he feels sorry for them or they are good servants or signing players based on geographic.
It is about if Pochettino can get the best out of the players he has at his disposal at this point. Ole is learning on the job, but what he is doing is building a team with a vision, utilising Martial, Rashford, James etc. If Pochettino can't get a system that utilises our best players and brings the best out of these wide players, then he might be the right guy at the wrong time. He would be fired as quickly as he would be hired. He would need to sign almost a whole new team again probably if he underperforms, and I'm not sure he would be given that privilege from fans or even Ed.
Sensible post. I agree that it is going to take patience, not sure if some of the people on here are willing to be that patient as they may want it all instantly.