If SAF/Jose/Wenger managed England, where would we finish?

Devil_forever

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A fair few people seem to think that the ability of the squad is the reason why England failed so miserably at the world cup, now I'm sorry but there aren't many squads in world football with as much individual talent as England's. Therefore the failure to get them playing as a unit is down to Capello.

My question is, how would managers who are good at getting the best out of their players and even getting their players to punch above their weight do with the current England squad in a major tournament? Quarters? Semis? Final? Champions?

I think that they could realistically reach the semi finals stage or even the final if managed by a Mourinho, Ferguson or Wenger.
 

Lance Uppercut

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The England team consists of a handful of quality players, and a bunch of dross that we routinely mock when they line up against United.
 

Aint gota Kalou

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They'd do better but I don't think they'd win it. Problems are much deeper than having a crap manager.
 

mufcwarm92

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I don't think Wenger's managerial style suits international football at all. The other two would probably do a great job though.
 

Chrisjn

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SAF, Wenger and usually Mourinho get to pick there own players.

I think it has a lot to do with players shitting themselves everytime they line up, and all the hype and bashing from the press, amongst other things, of course.

I also can't believe how many games/tournaments we sacraficed before we realised Gerrard and Lampard were a couple of pratts who wouldn't play together at all.
 

Smith's Cove

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A fair few people seem to think that the ability of the squad is the reason why England failed so miserably at the world cup, now I'm sorry but there aren't many squads in world football with as much individual talent as England's. Therefore the failure to get them playing as a unit is down to Capello.

My question is, how would managers who are good at getting the best out of their players and even getting their players to punch above their weight do with the current England squad in a major tournament? Quarters? Semis? Final? Champions?

I think that they could realistically reach the semi finals stage or even the final if managed by a Mourinho, Ferguson or Wenger.
That's a myth. England have a handful of decent players and that's it. The press has done such a job of promoting average players to the public that we get people making, and believing, comments like that. For an example look at the situation surrounding Gareth Barry before the last World Cup. Articles all over the show about it was imperative that he was fit to be part of the finest midfield that would be available to any team at the competition. Then consider the competition itself and the performances of what the rest of the world actually view as quality players, nonchalantly passing the ball around him and his fat fecking arse.
 

The White Pele

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England have lacked a central midfield with the quality to retain and dictate possession. We also, for the last 5 years or so, haven't had the quality of strikers we did in the late 90s and have lacked a reliable goalkeeper. So I don't think we have really had the quality to justify any high expectations.

Hopefully though things are looking up slightly with Wilshere coming into the midfield, Hart cementing his place in the side and one of the young batch of strikers should emerge into a better option than Crouch/Heskey provided.

On the downside, the wealth of top drawer centre-halfs we had in recent times are fast disappearing and right back is still a worry.
 

RedSky

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Before he became England manager, Capello could have been part of the question. You could say we've already got a manager of that calibre.
I've never rated him as a manager, he's the wrong choice for England imo.

Either way, the problem is the players not the manager (for the most part). I can't remember the last time that the English manager made the correct decision in regards to dropping 'star' players.

Theres alot of English talent out there, but they're being ignored by the usual names that come in and do sweet F all. SWP is a classic example of a player whos in the squad by reputation only.

Capello had a perfect opportunity to release alot of the deadwood and bring in new talent. Whats he done? Nothing.
 

Brwned

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A fair few people seem to think that the ability of the squad is the reason why England failed so miserably at the world cup, now I'm sorry but there aren't many squads in world football with as much individual talent as England's. Therefore the failure to get them playing as a unit is down to Capello.
It's that simple?
 

noodlehair

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Fergie and Wenger are both superb man managers, and equally superb at handling the media in high pressure situations.

It's hard to say how well England would do. They're not nearly as all round talented as a lot of people like to think, but I reckon you'd definitely see an end to the in-bitching, and spasticated nonsense that's occupied the last week or so. Can you imagine either Ferguson or Wenger behaving as idiotically as Capello has over what should have been a nothing situation?

The other thing you'd almost certainly get is a team that looks like it has a desire and a purpose, even if it was still a bit rubbish. Rather than eleven players who look like they're being forced to play at gunpoint. Again, has to be shit man management, since none of these players have the same problem at club level and many have performed much better for England in the past.

Sven went a bit mental after a while, and made some big mistakes starting with trying to pretend Paul Scholes was a left footed winger, but he at least had the managing the players part along the right lines. Look at the England teams of 2002-2004 compared to the excuse of an effort last year.

The manager makes the difference between the team doing itself justice, and looking a total shambles. If he's really bad he instigates the shambles before a ball has even been kicked (see Fabio Capello May 2010-present)
 

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When it comes to the highest level of international competition England have too many players who are, quite simply, losers. They lack whatever it is that it takes to win these sorts of competitions, or at least perform consistently well. The starting line up will be very similar to the teams that have performed so poorly so I don't think a different manager could make that much of a difference.
 

Raees

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Funnily enough I think with a team like England, Wenger would've had the greatest effect as he would've revolutionalised the way we play and the sort of players we're prone to picking. He'd have changed our mentality with possession and looked to have picked more talented ball players in the centre.
 

Red For Ever

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We will never know, but Redknapp would probably get more from an England team than Capello. I'm not a Redknapp fan and certainly don't want him at United, but I do think he can get players to perform as a team and he can get the best of many players in a way other managers do not seem to do.
 

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Hard to say 'Under X they'd finish here or there', but under Mourinho they'd be more efficient, under Wenger they'd play better football and under Fergie they'd be both. Of course none of this is set in stone as there are many factors, but under Capello they don't look capable of stringing two passes together. It's like a bunch of random strangers have put on to a pitch and they're playing this game called football for the first time.
 

MrMarcello

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SAF works well with English players and would probably produce the better results of the three mentioned.

Mourinho doesn't have an open check book.

Wenger wouldn't be able to sign French players and teenagers.
 

amolbhatia50k

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Wenger is brilliant at bringing out the best of ones technical ability. He's already played a huge part in Wilshire's development and no doubt he'd make the new England a much better footballing unit. However they're also likely to whine and cry like babies and bottle the big matches so it's not really ideal either.
 

The White Pele

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Capello's biggest problem is that he's a PR disaster. The players aren't playing for him anymore and this shows no signs of improving judging by the way he dealt with the captaincy decision.
 

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I don't think Wenger would do that well with it to be honest. I think he'd set the team up well, and generally address the strengths of the opposition better, but it's not really his thing.

Wenger gets rid of anyone at Arsenal in the academy if he doesn't think they're up to it technically. Thus he'd hate having to manage a side which contains mostly players without any such ability. He'd have to compromise his playing style and go a bit more direct, something which he wouldn't want to do.
 

B Cantona

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I think some of the biggest crap spouted is when people suggest the players aren't up to that much, or are lacking key technical ability. The vast majority of our players are first team regulars for the top teams in arguably the top league in the world. Perhaps strength in depth isn't what it could be, but its not that bad either

I think Capello got it badly wrong at the world cup, which is a shame because he seemingly got it right up to then. The players looked under all the pressure in the world, they did not seem to be enjoying their football. They looked extremely rigid, and our play and tactics were extremely basic for the most part. That for me is all down to the manager when you have players that are evidently capable of so much more

He's made his own problems when it comes to captaincy, Beckham being put out to pasture, Scholes not being asked personally or early enough to join the squad... its just dire media handling and man management, and that he doesn't appear to learn for me leaves huge questions over his ability to manage at international level. Belting club manager and no more

But you're not telling me someone else couldn't do more with the squad we have
 

BaldwinLegend

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Funnily enough I think with a team like England, Wenger would've had the greatest effect as he would've revolutionalised the way we play and the sort of players we're prone to picking. He'd have changed our mentality with possession and looked to have picked more talented ball players in the centre.
Wow - he'd have done all that whilst having his players for less than a fortnight a year?

Who might these 'talented ball players in the middle' be that he'd have picked that no one else knows about?
 

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No-one would doubt that the management could do better with what we've got, but you can't get round the fact that until Wilshere came along, we had Barry, Gerrard and Lampard for the midfield. It's just infinitely uncreative. We've got top players playing for top clubs but their style of play is only facilitated by the creative players behind them.

Lampard is helped out by his wingers and the Essiens of this world, whilst Gerrard played at his best with Alonso behind him. There's no coincidence.
 

B Cantona

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He's had Parker all along, maybe he's not the individual player Gerrard and Lampard are, but you're not telling me the effort and desire he shows would be harmful to England, and worthy of a long term trial in place of picking the same two together that don't work. Carrick is good enough to get into Fergie's team. He's not been bereft of options and forced to pick Barry, he's chosen too
 

BaldwinLegend

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He's had Parker all along, maybe he's not the individual player Gerrard and Lampard are, but you're not telling me the effort and desire he shows would be harmful to England, and worthy of a long term trial in place of picking the same two together that don't work. Carrick is good enough to get into Fergie's team. He's not been bereft of options and forced to pick Barry, he's chosen too
Everyone seems to have forgotten that Barry did well in the last qualifying campaign, and Capello was actually praised for picking him and not playing Lampard and Gerrard together in the centre.

Everyone seems to have forgotten that when England were doing well in the run up to the WC a lot of it was down to Barry playing, allowing Gerrard and Lampard to hopefully replicate club form by having less responsibility and more freedom to make runs into the opposition's half.

Thats why Capello was prepared to break his own rules in getting Barry back for the WC - he wanted that balance in the side again.

I'm fine with people criticising Capello or Barry for recent performances but why does everyone always forget the form Barry showed before SA? He was one of the better players for England pre-SA.
 

Raees

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Wow - he'd have done all that whilst having his players for less than a fortnight a year?

Who might these 'talented ball players in the middle' be that he'd have picked that no one else knows about?
It's not neccessarily what he'd do with the first team but the effort he'd put in revolutionalising English football off the pitch. He'd have wanted to have an influence on the grass roots, not just the main side. Like Fergie, they both see the wider picture rather than just the players currently available.

I don't think Scholes would've languished on the left under his management for instance, likes of Lampard/Gerrard would not have been persisted with in the centre.
 

BaldwinLegend

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It's not neccessarily what he'd do with the first team but the effort he'd put in revolutionalising English football off the pitch. He'd have wanted to have an influence on the grass roots, not just the main side. Like Fergie, they both see the wider picture rather than just the players currently available.

I don't think Scholes would've languished on the left under his management for instance, likes of Lampard/Gerrard would not have been persisted with in the centre.
So you're suggesting if we paid the Arsenal manager 7m a year to identify 'ball players' for cm all he'd have come up with would be to identify the fact that Paul Scholes can play in the centre?
 

B Cantona

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Everyone seems to have forgotten that Barry did well in the last qualifying campaign, and Capello was actually praised for picking him and not playing Lampard and Gerrard together in the centre.

Everyone seems to have forgotten that when England were doing well in the run up to the WC a lot of it was down to Barry playing, allowing Gerrard and Lampard to hopefully replicate club form by having less responsibility and more freedom to make runs into the opposition's half.

Thats why Capello was prepared to break his own rules in getting Barry back for the WC - he wanted that balance in the side again.

I'm fine with people criticising Capello or Barry for recent performances but why does everyone always forget the form Barry showed before SA? He was one of the better players for England pre-SA.
He wasn't praised by me. I think Barry is an extremely limited player at the top level. I thought that before the World Cup, and I think that now. I can't believe the money City spent on him. Even if our options aren't the greatest in that area, they're better than him
 

noodlehair

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Everyone seems to have forgotten that Barry did well in the last qualifying campaign, and Capello was actually praised for picking him and not playing Lampard and Gerrard together in the centre.

Everyone seems to have forgotten that when England were doing well in the run up to the WC a lot of it was down to Barry playing, allowing Gerrard and Lampard to hopefully replicate club form by having less responsibility and more freedom to make runs into the opposition's half.

Thats why Capello was prepared to break his own rules in getting Barry back for the WC - he wanted that balance in the side again.

I'm fine with people criticising Capello or Barry for recent performances but why does everyone always forget the form Barry showed before SA? He was one of the better players for England pre-SA.
Sorry, but you must have been watching a different Gareth Barry to me.

I've seen him play well for England once, and that was against a standard of opposition that frankly any Premiership player SHOULD be looking the business against. It was also before Capello even took charge.

Other than that he's always been amongst the worst, if not the worst performer. Or at best slightly pointless. It's among the biggest mysteries in football to me how he's ended up an England regular. At least Heskey might have been an ongoing practical joke.

Have you noiced that England actually look like they have a midfield today, btw?
 

BaldwinLegend

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Sorry, but you must have been watching a different Gareth Barry to me.

I've seen him play well for England once, and that was against a standard of opposition that frankly any Premiership player SHOULD be looking the business against. It was also before Capello even took charge.

Other than that he's always been amongst the worst, if not the worst performer. Or at best slightly pointless. It's among the biggest mysteries in football to me how he's ended up an England regular. At least Heskey might have been an ongoing practical joke.

Have you noiced that England actually look like they have a midfield today, btw?
Absolutely, but it's against Wales and featured Wilshere who wasn't available last summer and has progressed faster than anyone thought possible.

The sole function of Barry was to solve the Lampard/Gerrard dilemma, nothing more. Playing him gave Lampard and Gerrard a chance of replicating their club form. Previously, we'd had two ofthe most decorated central midfielders of their generation struggle to work out what their responsibilities were partnering each other in cm.

I'm glad Capello has stuck with Lampard as he's a wonderful player in a 3 man midfield and Wilshere and Parker were class today.

I'd bet Capello would have loved to play a fit Owen Hargreaves last summer but he couldn't. Carrick just couldn't find form and Parker had been injured and had little or no CL or international experience. Throwing Parker into the team with no preparation or experience of playing with the team wouldn't have seemed like a great idea at the time.

Slating Capello is the easiest thing to do, but he clearly had reasons for becoming reliant on Barry last summer.