If the fans can see the club has no ambition, so can the players

Marcus

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How soon will the current crop of stars agitate to leave United because of the lack of trophy prospects and who will be the first to do so (excluding Pogba)?
 

jasT1981

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I can see De Gea wanting out soon. Henderson is going to keep him on his toes this year and for the first time De Gea has legit competition for the job. He might feel that this, on top of lack of ambition is the end for him at Old Trafford. I'd actually be ok with cutting him loose this window and keeping Romero as backup to Henderson.

Going by Shaws comments about signings, its clear there is frustration from the players over lack of signings and progress too. He is the first to speak up, but I am sure its a sentiment echoed throughout the locker room.
 

Greck

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Think we can be specific about which players get to call the club out. Bruno, definitely, Pogba maybe, Luke Shaw and the other underperformers, never. It's a slippery slope where they get to pass off accountability for their shoddy performances
 
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Skills

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We'll just offer them more money to stay or come.

It's the only reason you join this club now. Good payday.
 

DarkLord

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Lack of trophy prospects!? If i'm not mistaken we got to three Cup semi-finals last season which kinda suggests the club is going in the right direction so why would anybody be looking to get away unless it's for more money??
No one remembers runner-up, much less a semi-finalist. The fact we lost in 3 successive cup semi-finals says it all.
 

buckooo1978

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We shouldnt delude ourselves - quite simply we are budgeted as a club who aim for top 4

if we had ambitions of challenging for a league we would have used lockdown as the opportunity to identify players and start negotiations. All clubs would have been counting the cost of covid and that was the time to capitalise.

this clearly isn't the case at United - mad to think weve lacked the ambition and creativity in the market of teams like Everton and Spurs. Liverpool tried to furlough and they have outspent us.

worst bit is we are helpless under the current ownership.
 

Jev

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Looking at the money we've spent the last five or six years, and the players we've tried to sign, I don't believe it's ambition that we lack. It's competence.
 

clarkydaz

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I can see De Gea wanting out soon. Henderson is going to keep him on his toes this year and for the first time De Gea has legit competition for the job. He might feel that this, on top of lack of ambition is the end for him at Old Trafford. I'd actually be ok with cutting him loose this window and keeping Romero as backup to Henderson.

Going by Shaws comments about signings, its clear there is frustration from the players over lack of signings and progress too. He is the first to speak up, but I am sure its a sentiment echoed throughout the locker room.
Dont see anyone paying for degea now with the wages he is on. His reputation has fallen massively
 

maximus419

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Looking at the money we've spent the last five or six years, and the players we've tried to sign, I don't believe it's ambition that we lack. It's competence.
I'm in full agreement. As a club, wasting £80m on Maguire, £50m on Fred, £30m on Lindelof and Bailly, and finally Sanchez and the wages that deal cost the club, you are looking at £200m + on mid table level rubbish at best.

£200m should be assembling a title challenging side. The problem is, the club are having to finance these deals against the club and pay over time. We are probably still paying lump sums off deals and that has to be taken into consideration.

Now I'm not a glazer apologist but if you are business minded, I think you would want a decent return on your investment at some point before spending more. You must remember utd have one of the highest wage bills in Europe. Until you shift the deadwood, and trust the recruitment team, you are basically throwing away money and I'd rather it be saved right now until things change.
 

Sky1981

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None of their business. If they come 3rd or 2nd and short of 10 pts gap then yes you can blame the board and the lack of ambition

But if you're losing at home against Crystal Palace in the 1st game playing lethargic football then you're part of the problem.
 

Siorac

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FA Cup and Europa cup slipped your mind, eh?
Please, don't, this is too embarassing: you and Class of 63 are literally crowing about reaching cup semi-finals as achievements. Surely you can see how ridiculous that is? It's the sort of thing we used to laugh at RAWK for.
 

gajender

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Why do our fan base confuse incompetence with lack of ambition .
 

Pav1878

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If the players can't remember that they have been in three semi-finals in the last 8 months they should be sold ASAP as they are obviously idiots :lol:
Teams get to semis all the time. Doesn't mean a thing. Actual silverware is needed and soon otherwise there will be players wanting out.
 

EwanI Ted

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The issue here is not a lack of ambition. There are very few clubs in the world that spend more money on either transfers or salaries than we do - and most that do are either the playthings of oil barons or nation states (City/PSG), or they're so badly run that we wouldn't want to copy them anyway (Barca). The problem with the Glazers and Woodward is not lack of ambition. Its simple incompetence.
 

Cassidy

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Lack of trophy prospects!? If i'm not mistaken we got to three Cup semi-finals last season which kinda suggests the club is going in the right direction so why would anybody be looking to get away unless it's for more money??
Top trophies. Alot of them have already won the FA cup and Europa League
 

DevilsOwn

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Please, don't, this is too embarassing: you and Class of 63 are literally crowing about reaching cup semi-finals as achievements. Surely you can see how ridiculous that is? It's the sort of thing we used to laugh at RAWK for.
Don't confuse yourself.

Surely you see how ridiculous is it to make an argument using selective evidence; and then rather than countering the full evidence shown, changing topic all together.
 

Siorac

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Don't confuse yourself.

Surely you see how ridiculous is it to make an argument using selective evidence; and then rather than countering the full evidence shown, changing topic all together.
The argument is that players can't expect major trophies when joining United. Therefore, our main draw is the money we pay. Trying to counter that by pointing to trophies we didn't win is a somewhat odd argument.

And I don't think the prospect of potentially winning the FA Cup (which we did once in the last 15 years) or the League Cup or even the Europa League (a cup we don't want to be in!) is a major factor when it comes to attracting players. No one looks at a club and goes "hmmm, they reached some semi-finals, I want some of that". Can you name, off the top of your head, the 2019 semi-finalists of all these competitions? I certainly couldn't. I think City won the two domestic cups? Not sure.
 

Zen86

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More importantly, when will the fans start wanting out? There’s are more successful local alternatives with guaranteed returns and standards to meet their needs.
 

Marcus

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More importantly, when will the fans start wanting out? There’s are more successful local alternatives with guaranteed returns and standards to meet their needs.
Fans wanting out is not as visible/effective as our best players wanting out.
 

Marcus

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I'm in full agreement. As a club, wasting £80m on Maguire, £50m on Fred, £30m on Lindelof and Bailly, and finally Sanchez and the wages that deal cost the club, you are looking at £200m + on mid table level rubbish at best.

£200m should be assembling a title challenging side. The problem is, the club are having to finance these deals against the club and pay over time. We are probably still paying lump sums off deals and that has to be taken into consideration.

Now I'm not a glazer apologist but if you are business minded, I think you would want a decent return on your investment at some point before spending more. You must remember utd have one of the highest wage bills in Europe. Until you shift the deadwood, and trust the recruitment team, you are basically throwing away money and I'd rather it be saved right now until things change.
It's a downward spiral to mediocrity. If you are not a club which has ambition to be successful, then you pay over the top salaries for avarage players. Because you are fully relying on a pull factor (salary, social media spin-offs). Then when you have overpaid average players at the club, you don't get the success you need to be an ambitious club. Rinse and repeat.

Edit - Maguire is not average. I think he is a good purchase even at that price.
 

Water Melon

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It's a downward spiral to mediocrity. If you are not a club which has ambition to be successful, then you pay over the top salaries for mediocre players. Because you are fully relying on a pull factor (salary, social media spin-offs). Then when you have overpaid average players at the club, you don't get the success you need to be an ambitious club. Rinse and repeat.
Exactly this. Then you realize that you can not move on these overpaid players, as they are happy to collect money while winning square root of fook all.
 

Jeppers7

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As a club we seem reactive and as such we don’t do enough to go that step further. When it looks like we need to do more to reach top four we go and do something. Then we only seem to step back.

This summer a look at the first 11 suggested we were on the right track, beyond that and our manager had no faith in any of them. We needed to build on what we achieved at the end of last season. We haven’t and now the club has fallen backwards, while other clubs have stepped forwards.

Sadly we need another reaction from the club, but ultimately success comes from long term planning not reactive signings to plug gaps, which is what we do.
 

Revan

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We have ambition, the money we have spent shows that.

Unfortunately though, we also have idiots on charge. No amount of money and good players is gonna fix things unless changes are made at the very top level.

Oh, and players are part of the problem too. Signing Sancho, Alcantara et al could have helped us bridging the gap with Liverpool and City, but that is not an excuse for losing at home against the night Crystal Palace who have a shit team.
 

TMDaines

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This is why I had zero qualms about Pogba wanting a new challenge and commenting so publicly. Another season of hunting down Leicester doesn’t warm the cockles, lads?
 

DevilsOwn

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The argument is that players can't expect major trophies when joining United. Therefore, our main draw is the money we pay. Trying to counter that by pointing to trophies we didn't win is a somewhat odd argument.

And I don't think the prospect of potentially winning the FA Cup (which we did once in the last 15 years) or the League Cup or even the Europa League (a cup we don't want to be in!) is a major factor when it comes to attracting players. No one looks at a club and goes "hmmm, they reached some semi-finals, I want some of that". Can you name, off the top of your head, the 2019 semi-finalists of all these competitions? I certainly couldn't. I think City won the two domestic cups? Not sure.
The counter argument then is that with the 3 semis+ 3rd place, United are once again moving towards becoming the club they were. Challenging for trophies/league. A good motivation for young upcoming players (the profile Ole seems to want.)

And here, the perceived lack of ambition showed by the club this summer is frustrating. (I say perceived, as there are still a couple of weeks left. Hoping against hope.
 

Plant0x84

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Please, don't, this is too embarassing: you and Class of 63 are literally crowing about reaching cup semi-finals as achievements. Surely you can see how ridiculous that is? It's the sort of thing we used to laugh at RAWK for.
Anything to be said for context?

It was the ( apparently unproven, incompetent, out of his depth) managers first full season in charge, we have a young squad that is in transition from the previous mangers tired and tested methodology of buying expensive has-beens and quick fixes, and a season disrupted by massive injuries to key players and an unprecedented world wide pandemic.
To finish third in the league and to get to semi final stage in every other competition is a good achievement. Not the final ambition, but a great platform to build on for this season.

Also look at Liverpool under Klopp, as you seem to like this comparison. They too reached semis and finals in his first few seasons without winning anything, until the team was built and the style of play developed.
 
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DomesticTadpole

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Lack of trophy prospects!? If i'm not mistaken we got to three Cup semi-finals last season which kinda suggests the club is going in the right direction so why would anybody be looking to get away unless it's for more money??
A deeper squad we might have won at least two of them. That is probably where the frustration is coming from. Those players were running on empty and I am convinced Rashford is still having problems.
 

Rozay

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This ‘the club has no ambition’ stuff is dramatic spoilt child bollocks.
 

Greck

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Please, don't, this is too embarassing: you and Class of 63 are literally crowing about reaching cup semi-finals as achievements. Surely you can see how ridiculous that is? It's the sort of thing we used to laugh at RAWK for.
Gotta agree. Not that we dont need signings but those semis being treated as a mark of progress is wrong. Jose and LVG all reached semis and Finals and had even won a couple by this point. Deep cup runs were never scarce. In a sense it's actually regression
 

Betson

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Looking at the money we have spent over the years since Fergie left it is hard to argue the club lacks ambition , but we have just been extremely incompetent in how we have spent it on average players with huge contracts and no real long term plan or vision. The money we have is not infinite and at some stage it was going dry up and the spend was going to tapper off.
 

JPRouve

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A deeper squad we might have won at least two of them. That is probably where the frustration is coming from. Those players were running on empty and I am convinced Rashford is still having problems.
That's a poor excuse, Arsenal had at best as much depth as we did and they won the FA cup. The reality is that the manager failed to rotate properly and our players had an absolute stinker against Chelsea and choked against Sevilla.
 
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