If you don’t understand why Ole is a gamble worth taking… you’re doing football support wrong

Florida Man

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I suppose we should put our faith in the guy who wasn’t deemed good enough for Spurs instead.
After the fact he turned Spurs from a midtable joke into a force in the league. Context matters. Klopp was deemed not good enough Dortmund either...after the fact he turned them into a force. Plenty of managers got fired (look at Madrid) and went on to still be successful. The difference between all them and guys like Ole is that those managers who already proven themselves on a top level. The only time Ole had a shot at the top level, he failed. And he is failing with United.
 

Leftback99

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Again, compare it to Rodgers, he lost a 80m CB and what is is net spent? 0m? Yet he’s 12 points ahead of us.

And Koop did have average players. Do you consider players like Ox, Lovren, Henderson, Sturridge, Milner as world beaters?

Some of the players that are class in his system is because of his methods and recruitment to fit his style.

Ole doesn’t have style, neither the managerial acumen.
Always back to Rodgers the current flavour of the month. He lost an £80m CB and had a ready made replacement because of excellent recruitment before he was even there. Their other CB is someone LVG ridiculously sold for £7m, and we wonder why we're in such a mess.
 

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Leicester are one of the best run clubs in the league right from ownership down to executives. Their recruitment is so good that a bang average manager in ranieri won the league with them. It's pointless to use Rodgers as a cudgel to knock Ole and the clown circus he's had to work with at United.
 

Florida Man

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Leicester are one of the best run clubs in the league right from ownership down to executives. Their recruitment is so good that a bang average manager in ranieri won the league with them. It's pointless to use Rodgers as a cudgel to knock Ole and the clown circus he's had to work with at United.
Apparently managers are not even a significant factor in clubs winning leagues. That’s the vibe I’m getting from this.
 

JPRouve

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Apparently managers are not even a significant factor in clubs winning leagues. That’s the vibe I’m getting from this.
It's a weird take that they have when you consider that the manager is often among the highest earners in their respective clubs.
 

Jaqen H'ghar

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Leicester finished 9th 2 years in a row. They employed Shakespeare who was shite, sacked him 26 games later. Employed Puel, who was even shittier and sacked him as well. Then employed Rodgers and didn't give him 150m for transfers, who improved some players and the team as a whole - what good managers do.

If Everton hire Poch with 30m a year they will be in a better position than hiring Ole and giving the latter 80m a year.

It's mind boggling that United fans are underestimating what a good manager brings to a side, especially considering we were run by a manager on the footballing side, not CEO or board for more than 2 decades.
I don't think it's that simple. United have hired proven managers. Every manager we've had has underachieved.

There's a lot wrong with the way the football side of the club is run. We've been blaming the managers, but we should also understand that they do not work in a vacuum they need a good squad, a supportive board and a competent recruitment department.

This is not a defense of Ole by the way, because I don't think with the shambles our club has been since SAF can be used to fairly assess a manager. I'm just pointing out that the board that has overseen the past (failed) managerial appointments, and given us this squad of not yet good enough youngsters and past it deadwood will probably oversee another failure no matter who the manager is. We'll just appoint, underachieve, sack, rinse, repeat.
 

Paxi

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Leicester are one of the best run clubs in the league right from ownership down to executives. Their recruitment is so good that a bang average manager in ranieri won the league with them. It's pointless to use Rodgers as a cudgel to knock Ole and the clown circus he's had to work with at United.
And yet they were one of the best run clubs before Rodgers. They were under Puel and pretty fecking shite on the pitch.
 

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After the fact he turned Spurs from a midtable joke into a force in the league. Context matters. Klopp was deemed not good enough Dortmund either...after the fact he turned them into a force. Plenty of managers got fired (look at Madrid) and went on to still be successful. The difference between all them and guys like Ole is that those managers who already proven themselves on a top level. The only time Ole had a shot at the top level, he failed. And he is failing with United.
Can this myth die already?

They went from 4th, 5th, 4th, 5th, 6th the previous years to 5th, 3rd, 2nd, 3rd, 4th. This also coincides with us turning to shit after Fergie so us one of those top 4 spots that was permanently taken suddenly became open and he had Kane coming through

Nevermind he never won a thing with an objectively good squad.

Poch is probably the most overrated manager in recent times. If we were to sack Ole today i would much rather take Nagelsman who took Leipzig to the knockout stages of the Cl
 

TheRedDevil'sAdvocate

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He is the definition of a good manager with a long career and a lot of good work.
A proper gentleman too. I feel that he's done a far better job at clubs where there was room for improvement. And, of course, Leicester was his pinnacle. His first stint at Valencia was very good. As for his time at Chelsea, people forget that Mourinho inherited a team that had finished 2nd in the league and had reached the semi-finals of the CL. He helped Juventus stabilize themselves after their return to the top flight of Italian football. Finally, he did a remarkable job at Monaco. In many ways, he did the type of work we hope Solskjaer will be able to do for us.
 

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A proper gentleman too. I feel that he's done a far better job at clubs where there was room for improvement. And, of course, Leicester was his pinnacle. His first stint at Valencia was very good. As for his time at Chelsea, people forget that Mourinho inherited a team that had finished 2nd in the league and had reached the semi-finals of the CL. He helped Juventus stabilize themselves after their return to the top flight of Italian football. Finally, he did a remarkable job at Monaco. In many ways, he did the type of work we hope Solskjaer will be able to do for us.
He is. The current Leichester manager is a bellend though
 

The Bloody-Nine

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He is. The current Leichester manager is a bellend though
He certainly was a giant bellend. His comments about how fortunate the Sunderland fans were to see his magnificent Swansea side in person (after Sunderland had beaten them) were hilarious. Still, I thought he'd dialed a lot of that back? I read a recent column that said he was lot more normal and grounded these days, anyway.

Good manager, though.

Said column, if anyone is interested:

https://www.fourfourtwo.com/feature...ach-manager-champions-league-celtic-liverpool
 

Roboc7

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Why does everyone have to point to Leicester as the perfect example where everything has worked out well and assume we'll be the same? I could find many more where changing manager has has miminal effect on results, us going from Mourinho to Solskjaer for one.

I struggle to be critical of Solskjaer so far because I agree with most of the decisions he's made. He isn't making baffling team selections or falling out with players like LVG and Mourinho were, he's picking the best we have available for each game they just simply aren't good enough.
Because we’ve got worse than last season and we’re supposed to be gullible enough to believe that there is no other choice. Other teams and managers are showing that clearly there is.

2 points from games against Newcastle, Bournemouth, Sheff Utd, West Ham, Palace and Southampton. It’s embarrassing to suggest Ole has done best anyone could or does t have the players.
 

Florida Man

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I go back to Mancini beating SAF to a title. They are important but easy to overrate average one's being carried by good players and vice versa.

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport...n-bilic-west-ham-premier-league-a8044586.html
Man City would have been a better example to use in the original assertion but I still maintain that a manager is still a big deal. Even if you could buy all the players you want. Still gotta have a game plan to win, ensure proper training, and learn how to read the course of a game to make the changes needed. Mancini also proved himself to be a competent manager before he went to City.
 

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I’m suggesting he was a significant factor among others. It’s a team sport after all :)
Yes indeed. A team sport after all, so why the vitriol aimed at Ole while also acknowledging Woodward for being an utter disaster with recruitment? Its not much to ask that he be given a fair shot for a full season?

The clubs recruitment policy has sounded the most coherent since ole arrived. That alone has been a breath of fresh air after the di Maria, Falcao, Lukaku and Sanchez debacles of the past.
 

Florida Man

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Can this myth die already?

They went from 4th, 5th, 4th, 5th, 6th the previous years to 5th, 3rd, 2nd, 3rd, 4th. This also coincides with us turning to shit after Fergie so us one of those top 4 spots that was permanently taken suddenly became open and he had Kane coming through

Nevermind he never won a thing with an objectively good squad.

Poch is probably the most overrated manager in recent times. If we were to sack Ole today i would much rather take Nagelsman who took Leipzig to the knockout stages of the Cl
Maybe saying a force was an exaggeration but they weren’t even in the run in for the title any of those times before Poch. During his time, they pushed for first or second at some point during the season and eventually dropped off.

But your last point. I couldn’t agree more. I’d easily take Nagelsman over Poch.
 

Dr. Dwayne

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I don't think it's that simple. United have hired proven managers. Every manager we've had has underachieved.

There's a lot wrong with the way the football side of the club is run. We've been blaming the managers, but we should also understand that they do not work in a vacuum they need a good squad, a supportive board and a competent recruitment department.

This is not a defense of Ole by the way, because I don't think with the shambles our club has been since SAF can be used to fairly assess a manager. I'm just pointing out that the board that has overseen the past (failed) managerial appointments, and given us this squad of not yet good enough youngsters and past it deadwood will probably oversee another failure no matter who the manager is. We'll just appoint, underachieve, sack, rinse, repeat.
Totally agree with this. Sacking Ole and trying the same thing the club has tried since Fergie left is just as much of a gamble. No manager is a guaranteed success here. People often quote the definition of insanity on the forums yet want another manager to come in now.
 

Ancient Of Days

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Man City would have been a better example to use in the original assertion but I still maintain that a manager is still a big deal. Even if you could buy all the players you want. Still gotta have a game plan to win, ensure proper training, and learn how to read the course of a game to make the changes needed. Mancini also proved himself to be a competent manager before he went to City.
Mancini won titles with Inter and he wasn't a mug.

If manager didn't matter, why didn't Mark Hughes achieve the same level of success at City when he had ridiculous amounts to spend?
 

The Bloody-Nine

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Yes indeed. A team sport after all, so why the vitriol aimed at Ole while also acknowledging Woodward for being an utter disaster with recruitment? Its not much to ask that he be given a fair shot for a full season?

The clubs recruitment policy has sounded the most coherent since ole arrived. That alone has been a breath of fresh air after the di Maria, Falcao, Lukaku and Sanchez debacles of the past.
You just acknowledged that Woodward is an utter disaster when it comes to recruitment, yet want his last recruit to be given time. Despite being under qualified and being relegated in his last PL job.
 

Leftback99

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Because we’ve got worse than last season and we’re supposed to be gullible enough to believe that there is no other choice. Other teams and managers are showing that clearly there is.

2 points from games against Newcastle, Bournemouth, Sheff Utd, West Ham, Palace and Southampton. It’s embarrassing to suggest Ole has done best anyone could or does t have the players.
Who do you want in? Why are you so sure they'll do better than LVG, Mourinho or Solskjaer?
 

Zen86

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After the fact he turned Spurs from a midtable joke into a force in the league. Context matters. Klopp was deemed not good enough Dortmund either...after the fact he turned them into a force. Plenty of managers got fired (look at Madrid) and went on to still be successful. The difference between all them and guys like Ole is that those managers who already proven themselves on a top level. The only time Ole had a shot at the top level, he failed. And he is failing with United.
What exactly were Poch’s successes again?
 

Dr. Dwayne

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You just acknowledged that Woodward is an utter disaster when it comes to recruitment, yet want his last recruit to be given time. Despite being under qualified and being relegated in his last PL job.
It's a bit of a catch 22. Woody's been shite at recruiting managers, so there's little reason to believe he's bound to get it right next time.
 

Florida Man

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Yes indeed. A team sport after all, so why the vitriol aimed at Ole while also acknowledging Woodward for being an utter disaster with recruitment? Its not much to ask that he be given a fair shot for a full season?

The clubs recruitment policy has sounded the most coherent since ole arrived. That alone has been a breath of fresh air after the di Maria, Falcao, Lukaku and Sanchez debacles of the past.
Because a manager is a significant part of a teams success/failures. I’m not sure what the confusion is. Ole doesn’t need a full season after half a year to show us what progressively good football looks like. It doesn’t take a year to see that. It make take years to turn it into titles and trophies, yes, but seeing improvements on the field does bot require a full year. We’re also not a charity or a grade school. It’s the biggest football club in the world. You want to manage that and stay here? Then produce the results. Else, get the sack.