If you don’t understand why Ole is a gamble worth taking… you’re doing football support wrong

[Raw]

I definitely agree that he was a gamble worth taking, but giving him the job before the season even finished was really stupid.

If he becomes a success, brilliant, a legend bringing us back to the top, what more could you ask for. If he doesn't, then we have the frustrating discussion of whether to sack him or not because "he gets the club". For a job as high profile as this, emotion shouldn't be taken into account. Take away the love for Ole and all we have is a manager who has good ideas but ultimately isn't tactically sound enough to bring United back to the top. He serves as a decent stopgap in terms of refreshing the squad and bringing some United values into it but long term he simply isn't good enough.

Still think he'll last the season though, despite the availability of Pochettino. Just because this season is basically a write off anyway so we'll see how he does with a full season and two transfer windows under his belt.

 

[Kostur]

All this shit reads the same as expecting a woman who is constantly beaten and abused by her drunkard husband to stand by him and love him because back in the days when he wasn't a drunkard it was a true love and shit. Load of pretentious bullshit.

 

[Varun]

Nice romanticism in the OP but a load of bollocks nonetheless. If your reason for choosing the manager is 'Imagine how great it'd be if he somehow turned out good', you're fecked.

 

[tenpoless]

For some people Manchester United is like family. You don't choose your family. If you have a son that's not very bright academically or your sister is the worst player in her team, you don't relentlessly criticise them, insult them, or offer them up for adoption so you can improve the quality of your family. You just support them and try to take pride in their efforts.

If they don't succeed relative to others, fair enough, at least you did you best and there's still good feelings and memories without toxicity.

And if they do succeed, it's magic.

Life isn't always about long-term winning it's about finding happiness. That's how some United fans see the club. You can't rely on winning for years on end, you have to learn to enjoy the club for what it is and take the rough with the smooth.

And if They get adopted by people who give them debts to pay, well, what can We do? If They get adopted by a Saudi family, well, what can We do? If They were led by incompetent people and ruining their futures, well, what can We do? you don't choose your family. Take pride in their (misleading) efforts.

Yet when some random blue tick wanker tweeted about a potential takeover there were lots of people threatened to stop supporting their 'family'.

Also the bit about 'happiness', I don't think there's happiness in finishing in the mid/lower table every season. That's ruining the club which also means less attractive football. If you love your family, you'd want the best for them according to their potential, not hindering them. It's a different story if let's say, You were supporting Westham.

 

[Rood]

@Rood
I thought we weren't supposed to copy/paste whole articles anymore?

Really? I must have missed that memo!

Or are you talking about articles that are behind paywalls? This one isn't

 

[Hawks2008]

Pretentious nonsense.

Always support the club and wish them well. But supporting failing plans and poor decision, is nothing to be proud of. I have no problem with somebody believing in Ole being the man for the job. I'd probably disagree with then but they'd be entitled to that view. What I do have an issue with is

1. Correlating the genuineness of one's support with the agreement with Ole's position as manager. It's a daft correlation. If somebody does not logically see this appointment as correct, for them to alter their view purely out of sentimental bullshit, would be very childish.

2. People who want Ole to be manager not because they believe in him. But becuase they want Ole to be manager. This is a football club not video game. The ones who succeed are the ones who have genuine quality and the intelligence to pull off well thought out plans, rather than sappy welled up dreams of hope. And on hope, it isn't that hope is not important. It is, but it's always borne out of something else, something that has potential. Not out of the idea of someone being successful. That's just foolish.

Put it better than I could have, it's really just a bunch of holier-than-thou bs with no substance. I wonder what all these sanctimonious types would be saying about ou manager if he wasn't a club legend and results were the same.

 

[Adnan]

This



.... and That

Van Gaal didn't just come to win trophies he had a blue print for the longterm, but the current ownership requires a bare minimum requirement and that was the reason money was spent on established players. Van Gaal himself mentioned this in a press conference. Anyone that is familiar with Van Gaal and i'm sure there is many Dutch fans on the caf that are, will know that Van Gaal took great pleasure in building teams with the longterm in mind and won a European Cup with a 16 year old and 17 year old playing playing important roles. He actually preferred working with younger players because he believed it was easier to coach his philosophy to the kids. For someone to say he only came to United with a short term mind set are talking absolute BS which is very easily refuted.

If signing Maguire and Wan Bissaka for world record sums is longterm planning in Ole's mind, then such a strategy isn't just a waste of club funds, for two players who aren't even close to being among the best in their roles. It's absolutely silly and naive on his part and reinforces the view that he isn't the man for the job and that's without scruitinizing his tactical ability/acumen.

 

[ifightdragons]

There is a new "class of 92" brewing in Gomes, Greenwood, Williams, Garner, lead by a young starlet in Marcus Rashford - coached by Sir Alex' pupil. It's the perfect continuation of a football legacy we'll never again. And quite frankly i am MORE than happy to take the gamble to see it come to fruition.

This is borderline delusional. Our youngsters will most likely not be a new Class of 92, and several of them won't even make it at United, or even in the PL.

Not even Rashford would be a guaranteed starter in a top European team!

You didn't even mention our biggest talent, which is clearly Dean Henderson. I'll wager a strong bet he makes England number one in not too long. He has been consistently great for well over two years, which is streets ahead of all our other youngster's average performance, including Rashford.

 

[TsuWave]

Comical article

 

[dove]

That’s what the media is pushing because it suits Ed/Glazers. Too bad our fanbase is gullible af. It’s our boards dream to have a manager who despite being useless and finishing 5-6 would still have a support and his name singed in the stadium.

 

[Meller]

People and their high horses. I wanted rid of Moyes because he was crap. I wanted rid of LvG because he made watching football into a chore. I wanted rid of Mourinho because he had given up and in his final season made watching football into a chore again. I now want Ole out because he's clearly not and ever will be a good enough manager for Manchester United. It's that simple. If we continue to hire the wrong manager after Ole when he invitably gets the sack I will want him gone as well. It's just so tiresome reading that we hired the best managers (LvG, Mourinho) and that clearly didn't work so now we should just stick with Ole because he gets the club. We did not hire the best at the time. LvG hadn't been the best for a number of years. Mourinho had bad spells with Real and Chelsea and was seemingly on a downward spiral. They were not the best and should not be talked about as such.

I had such optimism when Ole became the interim manager. He was perfect for that. Woodward even came out and said that they were going to identify the correct manager going forward, hire a Director of Football and make structural changes to the club. None of that happened. Instead we signed Ole on a permanent basis after a couple of losses, and even before that some bad performances where we grinded out wins. Sure we had the luckiest performance ever against PSG after being outplayed for two games, but I just didn't think it was enough to hire a failed Cardiff manager as the manager for one of the biggest sports clubs in the world. And the worst part was that it wasn't even necessary. We could have waited until the summer. I was perplexed and confused when we hired him as a full time manager, and believed right from the start that it was an awful decision.

He's a defensive manager who can not set up a defense even with £130m worth of signings and one of the best goalkeepers in the world. He gutted the squad without any planning heading into the new season as we lost Fellaini, Herrera, Sanchez and Lukaku. Look, I wanted rid of 2 of the 4 players mentioned, but you kind of also need to replace them. He extended the contracts of Pereira, Young, Mata and Jones. Compare them to the 4 players we let go. We're also playing absolutely tumescent football, without any cohesion and structure. We're trying to play counter attacking football against awful teams who are happy to just sit back and let us have the ball as they know we have no idea whatsoever what to do with it. And people are comparing him to Klopp and Pep just because they struggled a bit in their first seasons, but it was at least clear what they were trying to do tactically. It's not with Ole, unless you think high press and counter attacking football is a plan. It unfortunately won't cut it against 75% of the league.

I'd have no problems going through a rough few seasons if there were clear signs of progress on and off the pitch, and this holds true with any manager we have. I would be willing to give Ole time if it seemed as if he knew what he was doing, but to me he's just a failed Championship manager who's clearly out of his depth, and he's proven that over and over again since he came here. I loved Ole as a player but that doesn't mean I have to love him as our manager. I won't call him bad names, I just want him gone as I think he's taking the club down further than any manager past SAF has done, and in the end I want what's best for the club.

 

[Bulldog United]

I don’t think I’ve ever heard any United fan refer to Rashford as ”Rashford”. Maybe I hang around with the wrong people?

The United fans I know have been calling for our young prospects to be given more first team opportunities. The idea our fans reject the idea of a “club DNA” in favour of exclusively spending billions on ready made talent is BS.

I’ve never heard any United fan “mock Ole as a man”. Any criticism is pretty much limited to his tactics, game management and especially his substitutions. I actually think Ole is improving in some of these areas, but when he effs up then there will be criticism. High standards come with managing a club like Manchester United, and being a club legend doesn’t grant you an immunity pass.

I especially loved the little lecture on how to do “football support correctly”. If we all followed a football supporters style guide, this site would immediately become as bland and uninteresting as RAWK.

 

[Judas]

I would absolutely adore Ole leading us back to glory, it would be amazing, I just don't believe in him sadly, I wish I did. Maybe we'll see more that'll convince me, but so far I just don't see it.

 

[AFC NimbleThumb]

I’m lost for words, what a terrible article.

 

[Enigma_87]

Some supporters need to decide whether they will support the club or the manager.

Sometimes hiring a mediocre manager is not in the club best interest. Ole is out of his depth and is not fit for the club. There are loads of managers that would work better with what we have currently, without the "love for the club" angle.

We're living in the 21st century and you can't expect all employees in the club to be emotionally attached to it. It's not only about results that the 'moaning' fans are asking - it's United being run as a modern club, which also embraces modern play and not out of date sentiments.

 

[Class of 63]

Van Gaal didn't just come to win trophies he had a blue print for the longterm, but the current ownership requires a bare minimum requirement and that was the reason money was spent on established players. Van Gaal himself mentioned this in a press conference. Anyone that is familiar with Van Gaal and i'm sure there is many Dutch fans on the caf that are, will know that Van Gaal took great pleasure in building teams with the longterm in mind and won a European Cup with a 16 year old and 17 year old playing playing important roles. He actually preferred working with younger players because he believed it was easier to coach his philosophy to the kids. For someone to say he only came to United with a short term mind set are talking absolute BS which is very easily refuted.

If signing Maguire and Wan Bissaka for world record sums is longterm planning in Ole's mind, then such a strategy isn't just a waste of club funds, for two players who aren't even close to being among the best in their roles. It's absolutely silly and naive on his part and reinforces the view that he isn't the man for the job and that's without scruitinizing his tactical ability/acumen.

I think you've quoted the wrong post mate, neither of the posts i'd quoted mentioned LvG

But on your post, who were the 16 and 17 year olds? This is the team from the Final:

 

[Enigma_87]

I think you've quoted the wrong post mate, neither of the posts i'd quoted mentioned LvG

But on your post, who were the 16 and 17 year olds? This is the team from the Final:

Maybe he overdid it a bit. Kanu, Kluivert and Seedorf were 18/19 at the time as youngest players in the team.

 

[Mainoldo]

Haven’t read the article but more bull I assume. The guy is finished. Take the banner down 20Lengend.

 

[Godfather]

What a crap article

 

[Mainoldo]

Maybe he overdid it a bit. Kanu, Kluivert and Seedorf were 18/19 at the time as youngest players in the team.

Davids? VDS must have been around 21 too.

 

[Neil_Buchanan]

I agree with the sentiment but that was a very long way of saying very little.

 

[Rockets Redglare]

I’m lost for words, what a terrible article.

It’s absolutely horrendous. I loved Ole as a player, but he couldn’t be a worse choice as manager.
Romanticism and living in the past is the reason why we’re stuck in the doldrums and will be for a long time.

 

[Wednesday at Stoke]

Quality article, speaks to exactly what and why I seek out of my football fandom.

 

[Schmeichel's Cartwheel]

A positive thread, hurrah .... for a full 30 minutes, ah well nice try OP

We're 9th.

What do you expect?

 

[Andycoleno9]

Why should multi billion company gamble in the first place? Consequences are huge. Lack of results means lack of reputation which then means lack of sponsors. We are very very close to fall down from tier A+ club to regular tier A club. Results and reputation from SAF era can't last forever. And when you fall down it is hard to go back( look at Arsenal, Liverpool, Milan...).

So it is very stupid move to go with manager who is not only complete gamble, he is totally unknown in terms of his ability at highest level. And the more stupid thing is to stick with him while we have far better options on the market.

And it is not that he is doing some good job anyway.

 

[Adnan]

I think you've quoted the wrong post mate, neither of the posts i'd quoted mentioned LvG

But on your post, who were the 16 and 17 year olds? This is the team from the Final:

Sorry about that.

16 year old Seedorf and17 year old Kluivert both started the 1995 European Cup final against AC Milan with Ajax winning 1-0 with a goal from 17 year old Kluivert.

Other young players in the line up were Michael Reiziger 22, Edgar Davids 22, Marc Overmars 22.

 

[GBBQ]

There's no United fan who wouldn't love Ole to become SAF mark 2 and to create a winning dynasty for the next quarter of a century. The problem is most are seeing that he is nowhere near that level and we are continually losing ground to our 2 bitter rivals. Its nonsense articles like this that are the problem, not realistic fans who recognise that regardless of how nice he is, how much he loves the club, how much we love him as a player and a person, he's just not up to a job of this magnitude and there is nothing in his coaching history to suggest he is just waiting to get going.

 

[Giggsyking]

His results since Liverpool have been quite good and those that expected a quick fix are deluded. This is not a squad or team that is built around experienced heads like Chelsea (see Kante, William etc) but rather youthful essence. Literally the experience in this team comes from De Gea, Maguire and Pogba.

Mediocrity! Loosing to Bournemouth and a tie with Sheffield is not "quite good"

 

[Adnan]

Maybe he overdid it a bit. Kanu, Kluivert and Seedorf were 18/19 at the time as youngest players in the team.

@Class of 63 this poster is correct. They were older in the 95 final but LVG brought them through to the first team at 16 and 17. Sorry for the confusion.

 

[beer&grill]

For some people Manchester United is like family. You don't choose your family. If you have a son that's not very bright academically or your sister is the worst player in her team, you don't relentlessly criticise them, insult them, or offer them up for adoption so you can improve the quality of your family. You just support them and try to take pride in their efforts.

If they don't succeed relative to others, fair enough, at least you did you best and there's still good feelings and memories without toxicity.

And if they do succeed, it's magic.

Life isn't always about long-term winning it's about finding happiness. That's how some United fans see the club. You can't rely on winning for years on end, you have to learn to enjoy the club for what it is and take the rough with the smooth.

Hypothetically, you are the richest man in the country. You want to build a new mansion to live in. Your 18 years old son who built bird houses in a summercamp in Norway and watched plenty of youtube tutorials wants to build it. What do you do? Assign him the task, because he is your kid and you love him? Or hire one of the best in the business, and still love your kid while keeping him nowhere near the construction site?

 

[The Cat]

"His record with the club as a player is even questioned"

Absolute bullshit.

 

[Robbie Boy]

Pretentious much?

 

[Class of 63]

Maybe he overdid it a bit. Kanu, Kluivert and Seedorf were 18/19 at the time as youngest players in the team.

No I know the players ages, been a big Ajax fan since the 70's, that night in 95 is my favourite non United moment in football.

 

[Rado_N]

Wow. That was truly terrible.

I particularly love the way it spends half the time painting a picture of Mourinho fanboys and their stupid biases, whilst essentially doing the exact same for Ole.

Contrary to the nonsense spouted in this article (if we’re calling it that) as well as on here, not all fans who believe Ole isn’t the man to lead United can be put into one neat category of Mourinho loving gloryhunters

 

[Chesterlestreet]

16 year old Seedorf and17 year old Kluivert both started the 1995 European Cup final against AC Milan with Ajax winning 1-0 with a goal from 17 year old Kluivert.

They were both 19.

And Kluivert didn't start.

 

[12OunceEpilogue]

There is a small section of the 'fanbase' that has now nailed its anti-Ole colours so firmly to the mast that it is in those people's interest for Ole to fail here, as they'd rather be proven right than see United succeed. That minority are not worth listening to and it is to the discredit of the article that the author has put so much stock into what the 'Cult of Mourinho' say about Ole, say about Rashford and say about our club. The copy reads like it was written by someone who has spent too much time on social media and not in face to face conversation with proper United fans.

Any United fan wants us to do well first and foremost, and if they'd criticised Ole in the past they would happily swallow many servings of humble pie to see that happen during the Norwegian's tenure. The idea that being critical of the direction of the club, Ole's record at United, performances and certain players is antithetical to football fandom is preposterous, and the notion the magic of supporting a football club can be boiled down to blind loyalty no matter the situation is equally so. United fans are allowed to criticise and question all facets of the current set-up at the club while still counting themselves as loyal supporters, but a distinction must be made between them and those who are unrelentingly critical, disrespectful and downright nasty about Ole and our players as they are in my opinion not United fans and a non-factor in the current debate.

 

[Class of 63]

We're 9th.

What do you expect?

Two points off fifth, and chugging along nicely in the cups, it could be worse considering the mess Mourinho left behind.

 

[Bilbo]

Im firmly behind this project but that article is guff. It supports this belief that the whole thing is based around romanticism and that's not the case at all, at least with me.

 

[Class of 63]

Sorry about that.

16 year old Seedorf and17 year old Kluivert both started the 1995 European Cup final against AC Milan with Ajax winning 1-0 with a goal from 17 year old Kluivert.

Other young players in the line up were Michael Reiziger 22, Edgar Davids 22, Marc Overmars 22.

Never apologise for getting me thinking about that magical night again.

 

[Adnan]

They were both 19.

And Kluivert didn't start.

I've actually adressed that but my point still stands. Kluivert didn't start but he scored the winning goal in a European Cup final and he along with Seedorf were playing first team football at 17 and 16 years old under LVG.