If you have tried everything and nothing has worked, what on earth do you do next?

amolbhatia50k

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Nobody has the answer.

Said it in an other thread but the reality is that Manchester United will not return to the good old days under the Glazer ownership, this current board and Woodward running things. The board set the culture, the board are not Manchester United people, they're not even football people.

We are f*cked until they go. The club is broken top to bottom, and we need to fix the top first...
Nobody has the answer except you though given you've gone ahead and given a specific answer.
 

Sky1981

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Jose and lvg works in a hindsight. That's about what world class manager gets with our back then condition.

We just took it for granted.

Our squad and board is bad. Good manager finished 4th-5th. Moyes finished 7th. Ole finished probably about 12th.

Taken their history and cv i would say it's about par. -2 position for having ed.

We hire a 5th placed moyes, ended up 7th.
Lvg is a winner normally, ended up 4th and 5th
Jose normally wins, ended up 4th and 2nd
Ole got relegated with cardiff, +2 for taking a better team in united, probably 12th - 13th

So... actually looking back... past perfomances is a good indicator.

Pep got 100 pts with city. If he manages us and being backed with the same money I'd say we can win the league with barely enough pts.
 

slyadams

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Not sure about the revisionism on here about past managers. All three of the permanent managers deserved the boot, as does Ole. Whilst it doesn't reflect well on them, it reflects most badly on the top levels of the club. It seems baffling to the point of insanity that the club cannot put in place a football hierarchy to deal with this. Sure Ed likes to see himself as the big man, but does he really prefer that to seeing United flouder for 7 years, to dropping out of being a top 4 mainstay, becoming a laughing stock and now languishing in 12th?

Surely he can see there's a risk now he will be seen as the man who single handedly destroyed an empire, so it seems pretty hard to believe its all so he can play a bit of championship manager every summer?
 

Marcelinho87

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We need to acknowledge as a fan base that there is no quick fix and that the club needs to lay out a plan and stick with it no matter the feelings of the fans.

Is this board the right one to do that? Not in my opinion. Is Ole the right man to head such a huge rebuild? Again not for me, not now anyway.
 

Fido

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Appoint SAF as DOF until the end of the season. That might inspire the non performing players into performing to an extent. By no means do I want SAF to spoil his health, all we probably need is him to be around the club regularly so as to inspire the younger generation and take monkey off the back on Ole.

This malaise is no fault of Ole, until the last week of transfers. He was probably counting Sanchez as an extra option, Ed and his co might have let Sanchez go so that De Gea and Lindelof(Two players worthy of contract extension but contract extension talks had stalled due to high expectations from players) can sign their contracts. Mind that the De Gea and Lindelof contract extensions report that they're lesser than Sanchez's reported salary.

Ed and Matt Judge have taken the carpet under Ole for sure and Ole is paying dearly for their short term businessmen thinking.

#GlazersOut #EdOut
 

Ainu

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Tried everything? Like feck we did. More like we made a couple of half-hearted attempts at quick fixes.
 

Rista

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Hard to say for sure as there is no magic formula but what you definitely do NOT do is give up and leave the least qualified man in charge. As far as managerial appointments go, we could do what every top club does - try to hire the best possible manager who will be a good fit. If it doesn't work out, you hire another one. Forced "stability" will never get us anywhere.
 

shahzy

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you look internally. And by You i mean the CEO because this has all happened under his tenure
 

atticus finch

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I'm not sure I agree that the rebuild is in tatters.

We added three good players in Ole's first window and we can build on that if we keep on getting the right players in and the wrong players out. Our ability to get up the table again might not be about managers, it might simply be that we need to carry on adding good players to the team. That depends on Woodward supporting the manager of course. But if we got 4-5 decent players over the next two windows, we should be OK for top four again and push on from there.
 

JoaquinJoaquin

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Just because a proven manager in Jose failed, doesn't mean you stop targeting the most successful ones... Our 'wildcard' choices like Moyes and Ole have been the biggest disasters.
 

SaintMuppet

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Appoint SAF as DOF until the end of the season. That might inspire the non performing players into performing to an extent. By no means do I want SAF to spoil his health, all we probably need is him to be around the club regularly so as to inspire the younger generation and take monkey off the back on Ole.

This malaise is no fault of Ole, until the last week of transfers. He was probably counting Sanchez as an extra option, Ed and his co might have let Sanchez go so that De Gea and Lindelof(Two players worthy of contract extension but contract extension talks had stalled due to high expectations from players) can sign their contracts. Mind that the De Gea and Lindelof contract extensions report that they're lesser than Sanchez's reported salary.

Ed and Matt Judge have taken the carpet under Ole for sure and Ole is paying dearly for their short term businessmen thinking.

#GlazersOut #EdOut
Fergie has had his time, he is past history. Why risk his legendary status getting involved in the current cataclysm???
 

Beans

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Let's face it, everyone seems to have lots of answers, but no-one seems to have defined a viable solution to United's problems.

There are those who want Ole out, whilst forgetting that not so long ago they were Ole in. There are those want Jose back, less than a year after he was sacked for playing some of the worst football seen at United. There are those who want Pochettino in, yet on current form there is absolutely no evidence that he will do any better than Ole and then there are those who want Allegri in, whose biggest claim to fame is that he was serial winner in a one club league.

We replaced the colossus of Ferguson, with the man supposedly in his image (Moyes), then we replaced the hapless Moyes, with the experienced and worldly-wise Van Gaal. When that failed, we replaced the worldly-wise Van Gaal, with the serial-winner Jose. Then when Jose threatened to turn the club into a laughing stock, we replaced him with Ole, the club legend, who in a strange quirk of fate has now turned the club into a laughing stock.

Like I said, there are lots of easy answers, but no simple solutions. With the rebuild seemingly in tatters and a looming relegation battle on the horizon, where do we go from here?
You start making good transfer choices instead of some of the worst ones ever, it's the only way you can build yourself back up. It's going to take a few years, and rushing will only make it worse: short term thinking is what got us into this trouble. More important than the manger is getting a director of football, so all the transfers under whatever mangers we have in the future will all fit together, and we won't have to overhaul the club each time we change managers.

We've tried to do it the old way, back a big mangers to rebuild the team, and even the club in his image, allowing Mourinho to even replace very successful youth couches. It's time to join the modern era and get a director of football and a transfer strategy.

And we may need to poach some scouting talent, we are missing out on every quality player out there who develops in any league except the EPL! We have had no success buying young talent on the (relative) cheap since Nani! Meanwhile Spurs, Wolves and Leicester find whole squads of them.
 

Cloud7

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Why is our fanbase so fecking dramatic? You try again until you find the right manager. It’s not that big of a deal. Other clubs do it all the time :rolleyes:

In no way or form have we “tried everything” and we need to stop repeating this stupid line like some kind of mantra. What we have tried are two managers with fantastic histories who both came here clearly past their best, a joker who kept a club mid table for a decade and one of our former youth coaches who’s career peak was in the Norwegian league.
 
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Will Singh

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Who said we’ve tried everything? All we’ve done is keep changing managers and that’s not worked, what we need is change things at the top those who are running the club and maybe those greedy fecking yanks!
 

Mb194dc

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Problem at Utd is really simple.

The leveraged buyout in the first place by the Glazers.

They just got lucky with Sir Alex and the football bubble.

With both of those over, all being exposed.

LBO should be banned.
 

UpWithRivers

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You try harder, you work harder, you fight harder. We just need one guy with some common sense. Just 1. Just hire the best DOF in the world. Offer him double, whatever it takes. And an enormous amount of cash.
The decisions made footballing wise has been downright ridiculous. Buying Sanchez, selling players without replacing them, hiring managers without credentials, not backing managers, poor recruitment, lack of direction and plan, overpaying players, extending contracts of players that should be sold - all basic football fundamentals of running a football club we are failing in. Every single one. It's not rocket science.
We are like Kodak. Anyone remember them? Biggest camera/photography company. They invented the digital camera. But they didn't want to do digital so didn't pursue it. Now they are done. We are the same. Ridiculous after ridiculous decisions are being made. Just so stupid it boggles the mind. 6th last season. Then we loose Fellaini, Herrera, Lukaku, Sanchez and have no replacements. It's ridiculous beyond reasoning
 
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Rista

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But with the exception of Moyes who was signed on Sir Alex's recommendation and Ole who clearly has never had success in an elite league, we have actually recruited two very successful managers in Louis Van Gaal and Jose Mourinho. By any measure these are top managers or at least they were when we appointed them.
Yes, and both of them had been sacked before at other clubs. That is how it works. If the manager is not the right fit, he is replaced. Our fans for some reason think we're special and this shouldn't apply for us.
 

fastwalker

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You go all out for Pochettino and back him 1000%. He has everything we want in a manager bar winning a trophy, but he has proven everywhere he has been that he has the ability to improve players he's got, play attacking football and develop young players.

Spurs' capitulation is worrying, but it has all the hallmarks of a team that knows it's probably gone past its peak and has nothing to show for it. There's something not right at the Spurs at the moment, but I wouldn't be quick to suddenly write Poch off as a mediocre manager all of a sudden. Everything we've seen over the past 5 years has told us otherwise.

He's not only the best option at the moment, or not as bad as we've got now. Bar Klopp and Pep, he is the best candidate for this club and if there is any chance he could be on the verge of the end of his tenure at Spurs, we should be all over him, and screw how stupid it might look after backing Ole.

Who here would be more comfortable sticking with Ole in regards to this long term 'plan' we've got going on, instead of seeing Poch as the man to take us forward.
You may well have undermined your own argument.
 

Sky1981

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I'm not sure I agree that the rebuild is in tatters.

We added three good players in Ole's first window and we can build on that if we keep on getting the right players in and the wrong players out. Our ability to get up the table again might not be about managers, it might simply be that we need to carry on adding good players to the team. That depends on Woodward supporting the manager of course. But if we got 4-5 decent players over the next two windows, we should be OK for top four again and push on from there.
We cant get the right player if we finished 10th.

It'll throw a massive spanner to the whole processes, we cant keep pogba if we finished 10th he already wants out when we finished 2nd.

These things are correlated, you cant pretend everything will be better in january without counting the other factor.
 

AshRK

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Our board has made bad decision after bad decision and that is the main reason we are in this mess.
 

Strelok

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Herrera wasn't gone until he was gone. Lukaku and Fellaini are better than anyone we've "replaced" them with. They'd start. Sanchez, well who knows.

It's all well and good striving to have a better team, but Ole has made the squad weaker.
This is what Herrera said:
"Herrera, who reserved praise for Solskjaer, has broken his silence on his departure to lay the blame at United’s board.

‘I don’t like looking at the past but there were differences regarding the project and my importance within it. I was very happy, I have a lot to thank the club for, the fans and also Solskjaer,’ Herrera told Marca.

‘He (Solskjaer) did a lot for me to stay, but things didn’t happen. They arrived late and, by then, I’d already made the decision to play in Paris.’
And
Solskjaer was keen to keep Herrera and made it clear to United’s board that the Spaniard was part of his plans moving forward at the club.

However, United were fixated on new deals for the likes of Anthony Martial and Marcus Rashford, and allowed Herrera to run his contract down.

The club eventually came round to making Herrera an offer in March but the Spaniard had already decided to join PSG and had verbally agreed on the move.
Source: https://metro.co.uk/2019/07/08/ander-herrera-takes-dig-manchester-united-board-psg-transfer-10130578/amp/

Ole was appointed permanent manager on 28th March. I don't think he'd have much saying in transfer/contract matters as a caretaker, especially a big contract like Herrera's.

It has been made obviously clear that Lukaku won't start over Martial or Rashford as CF. Fellani won't start over Pogba or Mc Tominey or Lingard in the center. Sanchez will definitely not start over Rashford on the left. I doubt Sanchez could start even on the right regarding the signing of James.

It seems it's clear to everyone that Lukaku, Fellani and Sanchez were not first team starters, except you.
 
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Foxbatt

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We cant get the right player if we finished 10th.

It'll throw a massive spanner to the whole processes, we cant keep pogba if we finished 10th he already wants out when we finished 2nd.

Spot on. I also really don't understand this. We need to get better players than we have now. That will keep us moving up the table. Then you keep replacing them with better players.
If anyone thinks just because it's Manchester United, top players are going to come to play for a manager who relegated Cardiff and managed Molde, I have to say that they are delusional. One main reason is that they know we are not competing for any trophies.
I have a gut feeling that buying British is acceptance of that reality and that world class foreign players are not going to come so trying to hide this fact.
We need to get a quality manager first of all. Then spend the money to buy world class players. They will only come if they have faith in the manager.
Ole or Moyes would never have got someone like Zlatan.
As Jaime Redknapp says like Liverpool did we need to keep changing the manager until we find the right one.
Certainly One is not the right one.

These things are correlated, you cant pretend everything will be better in january without counting the other factor.
 

amolbhatia50k

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Get a proper tactical coach combined with a top class DoF.

Make these the focus
  • Ensuring the coach is either excellent or on the way to be.
  • Building a specific and progressive system that every player adheres to and works within. Whether we feck up while doing so is irrelevant. The vision should be clear and we need to work towards. It's what I like about LVG. We were stubbornly working towards his philosophy as Pep did at City but sadly his signings were just very poor.
  • Focus on players aged 25 or under who are about to explode.
  • Increase the focus on technical ability of a certain level being the pre requisite. We have too many players that are just ''options" or should be.
  • Promote youth and attacking football, but with the former do it well and properly. The kids don't need to walk into a miserable and broken football team.
  • Finally, for fecks sake, how how to do the organised press.
  • Focus more of possession. LVG improved our possession play and Ole has completely disregarded it. You can never be a top team if you can't dominate the midfield. And our current managers disregard for possession play and obsession with "getting it forward quickly" has harmed us.
 

Sir Scott McToMinay

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One thing you do is hire the best.

The best players the best directors and the BEST managers.

We have a lot of crap players but at least we are trying.

Did we even try to get the best manager?
Yes, in 2012, Pep wasn’t interested / available and Mourinho was on his way to Chelsea by then.
Then we tried for Klopp in 2014(?) but he turned us down claiming we were a non sexy Disneyland.

I’ve actually suggested we shall try to steal Klopp from Liverpool by offering him double wages but got ridiculed and dismissed of of my thread starting privileges as a result.

Imo we need to go for someone who would be the best manager when Pep and Klopp are off to other destinations or waning in power.
That’s where it’s at, Nagelsmann is where it’s at.

Or as alternative, we can go for Simeone who would make us play a type of football that will make you yearn for the days of Van Gaal and Mourinho back, but I believe he is the only one around who could undoubtedly have us up there very quickly, but at what cost?
 
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shamans

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Yes, in 2012, Pep wasn’t interested / available and Mourinho was on his way to Chelsea by then.
Then we tried for Klopp in 2014(?) but he turned us down claiming we were a non sexy Disneyland.

I’ve actually suggested we shall try to steal Klopp from Liverpool by offering him double wages but got ridiculed and dismissed of of my thread starting privileges as a result.

Imo we need to go for someone who would be the best manager when Pep and Klopp are off to other destinations or waning in power.
That’s where it’s at.
Julian Nagglesman maybe.

We have to go for the best. Just because they might have failed in the past means nothing.
 

Acheron

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If the players and managers are not working then the person above them should be replaced, normally that's how things should work.
 

Sir Scott McToMinay

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If the players and managers are not working then the person above them should be replaced, normally that's how things should work.
Ah Yes, we don’t know how or why Edward Woodward is still in the job, even from a financial point of view, this yearly rebuild thing is getting mighty costly.
It’s one of life’s greatest mysteries I suppose.
 

Sky1981

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Get a proper tactical coach combined with a top class DoF.

Make these the focus
  • Ensuring the coach is either excellent or on the way to be.
  • Building a specific and progressive system that every player adheres to and works within. Whether we feck up while doing so is irrelevant. The vision should be clear and we need to work towards. It's what I like about LVG. We were stubbornly working towards his philosophy as Pep did at City but sadly his signings were just very poor.
  • Focus on players aged 25 or under who are about to explode.
  • Increase the focus on technical ability of a certain level being the pre requisite. We have too many players that are just ''options" or should be.
  • Promote youth and attacking football, but with the former do it well and properly. The kids don't need to walk into a miserable and broken football team.
  • Finally, for fecks sake, how how to do the organised press.
  • Focus more of possession. LVG improved our possession play and Ole has completely disregarded it. You can never be a top team if you can't dominate the midfield. And our current managers disregard for possession play and obsession with "getting it forward quickly" has harmed us.
Meaning we have to sack : Ole, Kieran, Carrick, Phelan, Pert ?
 

meamth

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Not everything yet:

  1. Hire new vice-Chairman
  2. Hire a moneyball manager: Eddie Howe/Erik Tan Haag.
  3. Invest on new football infrastructure. (Better stadium/better sports science)
  4. New Director of football department.
  5. Upgrade youth setup.
  6. Massive overhaul of scouting department.
 

devilish

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If a top manager with years of experience in winning fails you have 2 choices. You can analyse the club's structure, see if it needs modernising and then add top quality people that you need (DoF, ceo, manager). Else you pick the first rookie you find on the street, someone who is always positive, who eats locally and who says the right things and you give him the job. Then you stick to the guy no matter what cause you know..... Blue passports and fish

If the latter option is taken then its evident then the former option is desperately needed
 

amolbhatia50k

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Meaning we have to sack : Ole, Kieran, Carrick, Phelan, Pert ?
The staff usually go with the manager. McKenna should stay in some capacity though IMO. From all accounts he did an excellent job with the youth teams.
 

Bobcat

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As awful as the Glazers are, i dont think they are the biggest problem. Since Fergie left we have spent nearly a 1bn£ on transfers, which is absolutely disgusting when you see the squad we have on our hands now.

The elephant in the room is Ed, and if half the rumors about him are true: Buying Fred because City were supposedly interested, buying Sanchez and giving him a fat contract against Jose's wishes as some sort of statement, running down Herreras contract while renewing the likes of Lindgaard...then we will go nowhere as long as hes mucking up the club behind the scenes. If i had to make a plan it would look something like this

1. Replace bean counter Ed with an actual football person
2. Get a new scouting department. When was the last time we unearthed a hidden gem?
3. New medical staff (preferably Eva). Either all of our players are made of paper or we do something seriously wrong, because the amount of injuries is just baffling
4. Rid the squad of deadwood and primadonnas and get some actually talented players
5. If we look as awful as we do now after Christmas: Sack Ole and hire someone else

Of course i would want the Glazers gone if i could choose, but as long as they dont sell (they wont) we are stuck with them for the foreseeable future