If....

[Redmurph16]

You could get away with introducing 1 a year and see how he does in a successful side, but when you havent won the league in a while, thats your aim and your the biggest club in England then even thats a gamble. He has given McTomminey a run out a couple of times, and if/when we are winning and a couple of goals up, he could bring him on regularly in the last 15 mins or so, to give him confidence and experience. Jones 19 Shaw 18 Rashford 18 and Martial 19 were all brought in at an early age. Rashford apart they were all bought, but whats the difference?

The quality of the youth is of little importance if you don't have leaders on the pitch.
That could be more experienced players or younger players.
We used to have Keane and G Neville in the team for example. Can't see anyone at the club who wants to develop into that role.

 

[Class of 63]

Would Pogba and DDG, even Lukaku be happy with that?

Think Pogba would think he'd died and gone to heaven having somebody with quick feet like Tosin alongside him, with Jesse instinctively getting ahead of the ball in front of him.

Not sure how it would effect De Gea, or Lukaku

 

[Class of 63]

Pogba wouldn't stay to be part of a project, nor would De Gea. They're of an age where they should be winning stuff consistently.

Project ?!

8 of the 11 in the op are regular starters.

 

[Class of 63]

Tbf the OP has not fielded an unreasonable side in that;

1. Given Valencia is not exactly a young fella and another knee injury puts him out for a bit, I'd advocate for Riley to be given a chance ahead of Darmian who might not be here next season.
2. Tuanzebe is another decent and deserves a shot. I'd have him ahead of Smalling but has to contend with Lindelof, Jones and Bailly. But with Bailly being more injured than not, a chance is all he needs. Actually, Jones is also injury prone too.
3. Kehinde is quickly becoming my favourite reserve player but I think a step up might be too soon. This one is the unlikeliest of the lot. The only available space was Carrick's and McTominay has taken that. Unless we have a serious injury.

My opinion is that, it is actually possible to still make top 4 whilst playing some youth from time to time without them being regulars but being heavily involved as part of the squad.

HALLELUJAH

 

[Class of 63]

Spend the next 2 years blooding youngsters, most of whom will end up playing Championship football if their careers go reasonably well, just in case one or two of them turn out to be decent? That's hardly going to bring the glory days back. Unless of course we just happen to have, by extreme luck, the most talented group of kids in 25 years.

Who mentioned two years, and look at the team in the op, only Tosin hasn't played for the first-team already, and that's only because of injuries, and a year in the wilderness because of registration issues.

Now if i'd suggested Mason Greenwood and Ethan Laird....

 

[devilish]

We still live in the shadows of the class of 92. Unfortunately most fail to appreciate the amount of planning behind that generation. The reserve manager of the time was an absolute genius and SAF's blooded the kids gradually giving them plenty of chances at first team level up until they became first team players. Even then, he surrounded them with great leaders who could keep an eye to them. An 18 year old Giggs had Irwin at his back, Ince and Keane at his side and Cantona in front of him. A young Gaz had Schmeichel at his back, Dolly and Daisy at his side and Kanchelskis in front of him while Butt was constantly shadowed by Keane and Ince. SAF was so cautious that he opted for an experienced head (Teddy) instead of putting too much stress over Scholes and that despite Paul showing plenty of quality during Cantona's suspension. He wanted to do the same with Beckham. In fact when Kanchelskis was sold he courted Darren Anderton for an entire summer. We're talking here of players of the magnitude of Scholes, Beckham and Giggs here not Riley and Tuanzebe.

Don't take me wrong, kids can still make it. Pogba is a classic example of that. He moved to Juventus with little/no first team experience and he shaped a great career for himself. Same thing can be said about Pique. However, before we do that, we need to build a solid side who can allow youth players to settle down while covering for their rookie mistakes. Pogba had Pirlo, Marchisio and Vidal at his side. Pique had Puyol and Busquets. You can't expect Tuanzebe to become WC while shadowing Smalling and Jones. They can barely do their own job let alone cover for others.

 

[golden_blunder]

I read a stat somewhere that said something like 1 in 200 academy kids make it to this level.

Realistically the likes of Mitchell aren’t good enough to make it here without going away and learning their trade/developing elsewhere first.

Even Gomes isn’t nailed on. Morrison was better than him and look where he is now. Or that young American (whose name I can’t remember now) that I thought would be the next scholes. Had a semi decent career in Spain but nowhere near the PL. look at macheda, januzaj, madds timm, Ben Pearson etc. all stars in academy, not good enough for this level

 

[KirkDuyt]

United spend about half a billion pounds since Fergie left, so no finishing outside the top 4 would never be acceptable.

 

[Pexbo]

I read a stat somewhere that said something like 1 in 200 academy kids make it to this level.

Realistically the likes of Mitchell aren’t good enough to make it here without going away and learning their trade/developing elsewhere first.

Even Gomes isn’t nailed on. Morrison was better than him and look where he is now. Or that young American (whose name I can’t remember now) that I thought would be the next scholes. Had a semi decent career in Spain but nowhere near the PL. look at macheda, januzaj, madds timm, Ben Pearson etc. all stars in academy, not good enough for this level

Giuseppe Rossi. Lovely player.

Much like our Juan actually.

 

[BluesJr]

I thought about posting a longer reply, it’s already all been said.

No.

 

[Tincanalley]

We still live in the shadows of the class of 92. Unfortunately most fail to appreciate the amount of planning behind that generation. The reserve manager of the time was an absolute genius and SAF's blooded the kids gradually giving them plenty of chances at first team level up until they became first team players. Even then, he surrounded them with great leaders who could keep an eye to them. An 18 year old Giggs had Irwin at his back, Ince and Keane at his side and Cantona in front of him. A young Gaz had Schmeichel at his back, Dolly and Daisy at his side and Kanchelskis in front of him while Butt was constantly shadowed by Keane and Ince. SAF was so cautious that he opted for an experienced head (Teddy) instead of putting too much stress over Scholes and that despite Paul showing plenty of quality during Cantona's suspension. He wanted to do the same with Beckham. In fact when Kanchelskis was sold he courted Darren Anderton for an entire summer. We're talking here of players of the magnitude of Scholes, Beckham and Giggs here not Riley and Tuanzebe.

Don't take me wrong, kids can still make it. Pogba is a classic example of that. He moved to Juventus with little/no first team experience and he shaped a great career for himself. Same thing can be said about Pique. However, before we do that, we need to build a solid side who can allow youth players to settle down while covering for their rookie mistakes. Pogba had Pirlo, Marchisio and Vidal at his side. Pique had Puyol and Busquets. You can't expect Tuanzebe to become WC while shadowing Smalling and Jones. They can barely do their own job let alone cover for others.

In that sense, Carrick's injury is a shame. Some people grow older but never acquire that gravitas or maturity (Giggs?). In a sense that's what Ibra was for as much as anything, perhaps. It's like the tension now is between the kind of individualism me-me-me approach and a more team-centred mentality. 9 year olds never want to pass the ball, they want to beat everyone, and walk it across the goalline, like Roy of the Rovers. Ronaldo was so conspiciously talented he felt he never needed a team. His own hero, but not such a great model for the next generation.

 

[The Outsider]

We still live in the shadows of the class of 92. Unfortunately most fail to appreciate the amount of planning behind that generation. The reserve manager of the time was an absolute genius and SAF's blooded the kids gradually giving them plenty of chances at first team level up until they became first team players. Even then, he surrounded them with great leaders who could keep an eye to them. An 18 year old Giggs had Irwin at his back, Ince and Keane at his side and Cantona in front of him. A young Gaz had Schmeichel at his back, Dolly and Daisy at his side and Kanchelskis in front of him while Butt was constantly shadowed by Keane and Ince. SAF was so cautious that he opted for an experienced head (Teddy) instead of putting too much stress over Scholes and that despite Paul showing plenty of quality during Cantona's suspension. He wanted to do the same with Beckham. In fact when Kanchelskis was sold he courted Darren Anderton for an entire summer. We're talking here of players of the magnitude of Scholes, Beckham and Giggs here not Riley and Tuanzebe.

Interesting post, and looking as an outsider I notice Brian Kidd was assistant coach after being a head of the youth team. I wonder if this partnership with SAF allowed the introduction of trusted young players alongside experienced leaders you mention. Kidd would have had the insight in which younger players were ready or able to step up.

I can't recall yet after 98 were many youngsters still successfully brought through?

 

[golden_blunder]

Giuseppe Rossi. Lovely player.

Much like our Juan actually.

That’s him, I thought he would make it here

 

[devilish]

In that sense, Carrick's injury is a shame. Some people grow older but never acquire that gravitas or maturity (Giggs?). In a sense that's what Ibra was for as much as anything, perhaps. It's like the tension now is between the kind of individualism me-me-me approach and a more team-centred mentality. 9 year olds never want to pass the ball, they want to beat everyone, and walk it across the goalline, like Roy of the Rovers. Ronaldo was so conspiciously talented he felt he never needed a team. His own hero, but not such a great model for the next generation.

There's at least four reasons why the change of the guards didn't occur in SAF's last years

a- bad luck. So many players in both sides of the spectrum (ie experienced players and young talent) were plagued by injuries which ended up crippling their career. Fletcher, Hargreaves, Jones, Smalling, the Da Silva twins etc would have improved us a great deal if only they were able to keep themselves fit.
b- SAF's stubborn resistance towards super agents which ended up with us losing out on some great talent. Players like Moura and Hazard would have improved our squad significantly. Also we would have been better off with a world class manager instead of Moyes.
c- SAF becoming too sentimental in a job which required people to be ruthless. As Paul Scholes once said, there's something really wrong in a club whose best CMs are at the wrong end of their 30s. The likes of Ando should have never been allowed to remain at United for so long.
d- SAF left a half baked job. The likes of Zaha would have done well with United if given time under a manager who understood football

 

[golden_blunder]

Interesting post, and looking as an outsider I notice Brian Kidd was assistant coach after being a head of the youth team. I wonder if this partnership with SAF allowed the introduction of trusted young players alongside experienced leaders you mention. Kidd would have had the insight in which younger players were ready or able to step up.

I can't recall yet after 98 were many youngsters still successfully brought through?

Of top of my head, Brown, O’Shea, Fletcher

 

[Sky1981]

There's a reason we get top manager every coming up the ranks every once in a while, while not many youth top coach.

My guess is that they have some sort of curriculum to follow for every kids, and if some of them has tremendous potential they move the rank faster.

But at the end of the day they'd have to at least has the potential to better the first teamer they replaced, or no manager will risk their job to give them time.

We can have saf at the helm but if the new crops doesn't have the potential there's only so much you can coach. Even the great saf can't make scholes out of cleverly.

 

[Bestietom]

It would be unfair and stupid to throw it all on the youngsters back, but introducing 1 or 2 for the right positions would only make sense. The academy and under 23's should be groomed for this. We have brought in some of the top young players around so we should use them when they are ready prepared.

 

[devilish]

Of top of my head, Brown, O’Shea, Fletcher

Brown was harrison's last player of note

 

[serxyo]

If we're completely honest with ourselves, if Andreas Pereira had started off at Granada and is where he is now a bench warmer at Valencia, there's no way in hell anybody here would be asking to sign him. Yet many here are convinced he will solve our problems.

The hell are you smoking? Andreas played in 17 matches, started 11. He scored a goal and added 3 assists.

 

[midnightmare]

Not going to happen in a million years with Mourinho in charge sadly, but IF, after having a bang on the head he decided that going young is the way ahead, and went with the young lads already at the club in 2018, would you tolerate finishing outside the top 4 this season, and maybe next season, if there were enough signs that the young lads had it in them to take us to the next level ?

Or is it all about the here and now ?

De Gea

Riley
Jones (Cpt.)
Tuanzebe
Shaw

Kehinde
Pogba
Lingard

Lukaku
Rashford
Martial

Pereira/Henderson, RS Williams, McTominay, Gribbin, Mitchell, Chong and AN Other.

Reading comics I know, but....

Oh dear! Most of these are already known to simply not be good enough, but I'll go in order:

De Gea: Awesome start - after which we go downhill

Riley: Based on what exactly are we keeping him here?
Jones: Am assuming you mean some Jones other than Phil "walking injury" Jones - since we'd rather have someone available...
Tuanzebe: Let's see him first get a break at RB; could be good enough, but has often looked shaky as feck as well
Shaw: You mean Luke "can't cross, is often unfit and rarely looks like a world-beater" Shaw?

With this defence ahead of him, DDG would do one faster than you can say "Marco Polo".

Kehinde: Now you're just grasping...
Pogba: Best of the lot - but asked to play alongside this shower, he'd join DDG in Madrid
Lingard: Yeah; City have Sane, Silva, de Bruyne, Sterling and Jesus...and we have Jesse "praised if he plays a decent game" Lingard. Oh and he works best as a 10, but you're fitting him on the flanks of a 4-3-3... Ho-hum...

Intrigued that you leave out Angel Gomes here... not even in the subs? Dearie me!

Lukaku-Rashford-Martial: So, we have no width at all, have 2 forwards who prefer central roles but would be LF if not...all playing with a lumbering beast who can't hold up the ball or bully defenders half his size.

Recipe for disaster. Thankfully, even Giggsy would not play this...unless we're playing a schoolboy 11 in a friendly...

 

[wolvored]

Of top of my head, Brown, O’Shea, Fletcher

No comparison with the mostly world class of 92.

 

[Salt Bailly]

I ventured into the thread looking for a Rudyard Kipling joke. I am disappoint.

 

[Class of 63]

Oh dear! Most of these are already known to simply not be good enough, but I'll go in order:

De Gea: Awesome start - after which we go downhill

Riley: Based on what exactly are we keeping him here?
Jones: Am assuming you mean some Jones other than Phil "walking injury" Jones - since we'd rather have someone available...
Tuanzebe: Let's see him first get a break at RB; could be good enough, but has often looked shaky as feck as well
Shaw: You mean Luke "can't cross, is often unfit and rarely looks like a world-beater" Shaw?

With this defence ahead of him, DDG would do one faster than you can say "Marco Polo".

Kehinde: Now you're just grasping...
Pogba: Best of the lot - but asked to play alongside this shower, he'd join DDG in Madrid
Lingard: Yeah; City have Sane, Silva, de Bruyne, Sterling and Jesus...and we have Jesse "praised if he plays a decent game" Lingard. Oh and he works best as a 10, but you're fitting him on the flanks of a 4-3-3... Ho-hum...

Intrigued that you leave out Angel Gomes here... not even in the subs? Dearie me!

Lukaku-Rashford-Martial: So, we have no width at all, have 2 forwards who prefer central roles but would be LF if not...all playing with a lumbering beast who can't hold up the ball or bully defenders half his size.

Recipe for disaster. Thankfully, even Giggsy would not play this...unless we're playing a schoolboy 11 in a friendly...

Oh dear! Most of these are already known to simply not be good enough,

LOL, it must've pained you to say anything positive about De Gea and Pogba

Maybe if you watch the 23s occasionally you'd know why so many of us rate Axel so highly and have done for a few years now, you'd also know that Joe Riley has the engine to get up and down the right flank for 90 minutes game in, game out, you'd also have noticed that Tosin has been the stand-out performer this season.

Congratz for name dropping Angel Gomes by the way, an undoubted talent, but let's see him get a game for the 23s first and see if he can hack it at that level

I'm guessing you were pissed when you did your reply, no shame in that I was when I did the op, but for some strange reason you say i've picked Lingard on the flanks, surely in a 4-3-3 the width comes from the full-backs.

Oh yeah, HNY

 

[midnightmare]

Oh dear! Most of these are already known to simply not be good enough,

LOL, it must've pained you to say anything positive about De Gea and Pogba

Maybe if you watch the 23s occasionally you'd know why so many of us rate Axel so highly and have done for a few years now, you'd also know that Joe Riley has the engine to get up and down the right flank for 90 minutes game in, game out, you'd also have noticed that Tosin has been the stand-out performer this season.

Congratz for name dropping Angel Gomes by the way, an undoubted talent, but let's see him get a game for the 23s first and see if he can hack it at that level

I'm guessing you were pissed when you did your reply, no shame in that I was when I did the op, but for some strange reason you say i've picked Lingard on the flanks, surely in a 4-3-3 the width comes from the full-backs.

Oh yeah, HNY

Yep, was peeved at the time, but really can't see how these lads could be rated as (already) being good enough. Our U23s haven't exactly set the league alight, you'll notice, which is why I'm skeptical of the potential these kids have to cut it in the PL proper. I do watch the games (though I can be irregular). Tuanzebe is someone I've had very high hopes from, but then, I did for TFM as well! Frankly, TFM looked like a complete beast in youth games and was completely found out in the PL when given his chance. At CP now, he's had a few decent games, but I'm worried he won't make it back here (though I fecking hope he does!). What we saw with him is why I'm skeptical about Tuanzebe as well (though he's seemed better when he's played). I also worry with Axel because somehow he's just not getting first-team games anywhere. Surely we'd have seen him? Lindelof was preferred at RB last time out instead of him. I'd been hoping, but oh well...

On Riley, see above. Tosin - trained with the first team once so that should give hope, but hey, we've had McTominay actually play and he's probably ahead in the queue of youngsters - and despite being very neat, has yet to prove he will become a first-team regular, though again, one hopes.

Lingard - can see your point, but feel he's growing into the central role really well. Shaw can't cross (could learn I suppose) and you've got him behind, so with Jesse cutting in, you'd force play to be very narrow. Also, somehow I've liked Jesse in the middle. Massively.

Lukaku-Rashford-Martial - no. Just no. I can't get with Lukaku being our main man and both Martial and Rashford prefer being left-sided if not central. We'd overload massively and leave the right side empty...and still not have a single good crosser of the ball.

Angel Gomes - kid's the brightest talent we have surely? Already got his taste of the first-team and I really think that if he continues his trajectory, he'll make it to a regular spot before a bunch of the guys above.

Not hating, despite my grumpy tone earlier (Was just having a terrible day nursing the hangover as well) and like anyone, I'd love a team built largely from guys out of our academy or those we bought young. Just that I feel this line-up was reaching...

Cheers and HNY.

 

[Class of 63]

Yep, was peeved at the time, but really can't see how these lads could be rated as (already) being good enough. Our U23s haven't exactly set the league alight, you'll notice, which is why I'm skeptical of the potential these kids have to cut it in the PL proper. I do watch the games (though I can be irregular). Tuanzebe is someone I've had very high hopes from, but then, I did for TFM as well! Frankly, TFM looked like a complete beast in youth games and was completely found out in the PL when given his chance. At CP now, he's had a few decent games, but I'm worried he won't make it back here (though I fecking hope he does!). What we saw with him is why I'm skeptical about Tuanzebe as well (though he's seemed better when he's played). I also worry with Axel because somehow he's just not getting first-team games anywhere. Surely we'd have seen him? Lindelof was preferred at RB last time out instead of him. I'd been hoping, but oh well...

On Riley, see above. Tosin - trained with the first team once so that should give hope, but hey, we've had McTominay actually play and he's probably ahead in the queue of youngsters - and despite being very neat, has yet to prove he will become a first-team regular, though again, one hopes.

Lingard - can see your point, but feel he's growing into the central role really well. Shaw can't cross (could learn I suppose) and you've got him behind, so with Jesse cutting in, you'd force play to be very narrow. Also, somehow I've liked Jesse in the middle. Massively.

Lukaku-Rashford-Martial - no. Just no. I can't get with Lukaku being our main man and both Martial and Rashford prefer being left-sided if not central. We'd overload massively and leave the right side empty...and still not have a single good crosser of the ball.

Angel Gomes - kid's the brightest talent we have surely? Already got his taste of the first-team and I really think that if he continues his trajectory, he'll make it to a regular spot before a bunch of the guys above.

Not hating, despite my grumpy tone earlier (Was just having a terrible day nursing the hangover as well) and like anyone, I'd love a team built largely from guys out of our academy or those we bought young. Just that I feel this line-up was reaching...

Cheers and HNY.

No probs mate, must admit my XI looked a lot better @ 2 oclock yesterday morning when I was away with the Fairies than it did today when I was sober

There just seems to be a lot of negativity on the boards after a few draws with many fearing we might miss out on a top 4 place again, was just putting it out there would some of the doom'n'gloomers feel better about missing out on T4 if Mourinho had dropped some of the underachievers and gave some youngsters a go.

On the 23s, don't think the League is fit for purpose to be honest, they keep messing about with it which doesn't help, 6 months tops in that League then sort loan deals out would be better for their development.

 

[midnightmare]

No probs mate, must admit my XI looked a lot better @ 2 oclock yesterday morning when I was away with the Fairies than it did today when I was sober

There just seems to be a lot of negativity on the boards after a few draws with many fearing we might miss out on a top 4 place again, was just putting it out there would some of the doom'n'gloomers feel better about missing out on T4 if Mourinho had dropped some of the underachievers and gave some youngsters a go.

On the 23s, don't think the League is fit for purpose to be honest, they keep messing about with it which doesn't help, 6 months tops in that League then sort loan deals out would be better for their development.

Loads of things seemed better about then, I'll grant...

Agreed on all points! The negativity doesn't surprise me to be honest. At the start of the season, was telling a mate we weren't close to winning the title with this squad unless Pep and City completely imploded. Also said I'd be delighted with second as Chelsea and Spurs have stronger first XIs (I genuinely don't rate Lukaku too highly and it pains me massively to say this. I hope he does a Lingard and proves me wrong...but I'm as sure as I can be!) and Chelsea also have a slightly deeper (in quality) squad. So I didn't get carried away when we were close and still don't feel gloomy. We're where I expected us to be and perhaps slightly better as we've stayed ahead of Chelsea till now and should be able to hopefully finish either just behind or even ahead! The guys who were creaming themselves over the transfers and thinking we were destined to win the title are the ones who've had a crash in mood from what I can see. My mate is likely to drink himself into a grave before season's out I reckon ;-).

For the U23s, yeah, it's a crappy situation and frankly, I wish we'd pull out our finger and sort out what we're doing there - and develop a way to use it better!