Il Fenomeno Draft - QF - Raees vs Beam Nut

With players at their career peak, who would win? Edit


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Šjor Bepo

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Team Raees

Formation: 4-2-4/4-4-1-1
Strategy: Counter attacking 4-4-2, sit deep and bomb forward once we have the ball with the front 4 aided by Van Hanegam.

Dealing with his attack...

With his brilliant midfield I expect him to dominate possession which should play into our hands as with Djalma taking care of Stoichkov and Baresi able to track Hidegkuti into midfield.. Eusébio will have to overcome Moore and Marzolini. I see Eusebio as our biggest threat, and with Zanetti looking to bomb on - his right flank looks dangerous.. which is why the hard-working Boniek will be expected to track back diligently and ensure Marzolini is protected from 2 v 1 situations.

The midfield battle...

In Falcao and Rijkaard, he will dominate possession and that is before we even add Scholes to the conversation. There is no point in me arguing we will stand a chance in this regard but what we do have is two really strong fighters who complement each other really well and will be looking to sit deep anyway. They will be instructed to not get phased if we are not in possession, mark space and when on the ball.. pass between the lines and feed our dynamic forward line as quick as possible. Van Hanagem's pin point passing and ability to break enemy lines with his strength and dribbling will be key..

Are Falcao and Scholes compatible? My worry here is that it is reminscent of Scholes feeling 'pissed' when Veron stepped on his turf and also at being sidelined when Gerrard and Lampard were in midfield with him. Now Falcao is a better player than any of these guys but Scholes' personality is a quirky one and he has an ego.. he does like to be the side's primary playmaker and when he isn't, can throw his toys out of the pram.

Our counter-attacking threat...

Before we even look at the attackers... in Chilavert, Baresi, Moore... we have some very fine distributors from the back and therefore as soon as the ball is won, at any stage a counter could be sprung.. remember Moore's pass to Hurst? imagine him playing in Gerd Muller!. I would argue that whilst his defence is strong, it is not a GOAT level backline like mine and he's up against 3 outstanding Ballon D'or winners and Zbigniew Boniek (Platini called him the greatest counter attacker of his era).

Structurally, the signing of Van Hanegam allows Boniek to roam once we get the ball (knowing that Hanegam can drift down left flank) and give Rijkaard a headache defensively especially if Albert drops deep too. Figo holds the width down the right, stretching the pitch wide as possible and Muller is constantly on the lookout for space and sniffing any opportunity to put it in the back of the net.



Team Beam Nut

Tactic:
4-3-3 dynamic and quite clearly superior

The most underrated forward in draft history with a perfect platform to shine.


More in the debate, although to be absolutely crystal clear I don't have a clue how Raees is gonna win this. That midfield and Hidegkuti in support will just put 5 around Baresi and Moore. It is not that I don't take their factor, clearly a superior defence, but it will be battered.
 

harms

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Baresi - Moore :lol:

You should start one vote down for consistently misspelling van Hanegem though @Raees

It also really hurts to see Müller's peak of 71-74, surely you have chosen the wrong World Cup! He was unstoppable in the qualifiers and in Mexico itself, that's definitely the best version of Müller that I've seen.
 
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Fortitude

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Thinking Jim has some structural problems in having Scholes anywhere but behind the halfway line at the base of the centre circle if it's the DLP incarnation. He was never the best off the ball runner in defensive phases, and was even more reluctant to run as the DLP. As mentioned, he wants to knit play and have runners around him, but he does that from deep in the '06 - '09 era. Falcao would be at the tip or the further most forward of the midfielders, but he himself takes on the ball and wants to drive action with it from deepish, so there's a logistical issue there. For me, the '99-'02 Scholes would have been more beneficial to Raees side, both for his goal threat, but also in being used to, and accepting of, his midfield partner having more touches and the control of the flow of the game.

Not keen on Baresi-Moore on Raaes' end.

Both teams have issues preventing shots from distance from the cannons in the opposing midfields. Any plans in place to prevent this

Going to have a read of the ensuing convos, see where this goes and what arguments are put forth on each side.
 

harms

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Falcao would be at the tip or the further most forward of the midfielders, but he himself takes on the ball and wants to drive action with it from deepish, so there's a logistical issue there. For me, the '99-'02 Scholes would have been more beneficial to Raees side, both for his goal threat, but also in being used to, and accepting of, his midfield partner having more touches and the control of the flow of the game.
I can't say that I fully agree with this. When you look at the way that Falcão played for Roma, he was much more prominent in the attacking third, while most of the playmaking from deeper areas was provided by Di Bartolomei. And that Roma side was definitely built to bring out the best of him in a way that seleção never was, with Zico and Socrates being their most important players. Even though that midfield four had performed so seamlessly together that it's hard to imagine any of those players performing better in any other set up.
 

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I can't say that I fully agree with this. When you look at the way that Falcão played for Roma, he was much more prominent in the attacking third, while most of the playmaking from deeper areas was provided by Di Bartolomei. And that Roma side was definitely built to bring out the best of him in a way that seleção never was, with Zico and Socrates being their most important players. Even though that midfield four had performed so seamlessly together that it's hard to imagine any of those players performing better in any other set up.
Agreed. The triumvirate of Cerezo-Di Bartolomei-Falcão meshed rather well together.
 

Fortitude

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I can't say that I fully agree with this. When you look at the way that Falcão played for Roma, he was much more prominent in the attacking third, while most of the playmaking from deeper areas was provided by Di Bartolomei. And that Roma side was definitely built to bring out the best of him in a way that seleção never was, with Zico and Socrates being their most important players. Even though that midfield four had performed so seamlessly together that it's hard to imagine any of those players performing better in any other set up.
Not disputing his prominence, rather the means by which the ball's going to be getting to him and what he's supposed to be doing in the meantime - is this midfield's Scholes' to control and govern a decision like that? Or is it a tandem?

Scholes of this vintage has a defined role - a big one, but very specific otherwise he's not being optimised, but if you optimise him, are you optimising Falcao?

For me, you've got two players there who will want to dictate certain proceedings, and if that's not the case, there's a compromise to be made. It should theoretically be seamless with such intelligent players, but if Scholes is going to be playing one-touch and passing and moving up the pitch is there any concern if the play breaks down, with his legs? Probably not as Raees' midfield isn't the hard-running energetic type, and he's instructed them to sit deep, but it's an interesting subject matter in its own right, I think.
 

Raees

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Baresi - Moore :lol:

You should start one vote down for consistently misspelling van Hanegem though @Raees

It also really hurts to see Müller's peak of 71-74, surely you have chosen the wrong World Cup! He was unstoppable in the qualifiers and in Mexico itself, that's definitely the best version of Müller that I've seen.
Sorry Harms, I picked that peak because he scored...

71-72 = 50 goals in 48 games
72-73 = 66 goals in 49 games
73-74 = 43 goals in 48 games

Trophies won...

European Cup: 1973–74, 1974–75, 1975–76
FIFA World Cup: 1974
UEFA European Championship: 1972

But in hindsight you are right - are we allowed to change the period of peak within a game @Šjor Bepo
 

harms

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Sorry Harms, I picked that peak because he scored...

71-72 = 50 goals in 48 games
72-73 = 66 goals in 49 games
73-74 = 43 goals in 48 games

Trophies won...

European Cup: 1973–74, 1974–75, 1975–76
FIFA World Cup: 1974
UEFA European Championship: 1972
Yeah, as I said (actually, I didn't, but I've meant to), it's not a huge issue — he had obviously scored with ease on every stage and crowned that three years with a golden goal in the World Cup final; but when you compare his 1970 to 1974 you see that he had lost (a tiny bit) of an edge.
 

Jim Beam

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Great. Moore - Baresi but it is also Pluskal - Van Hanegem - Boniek - Figo in a 4-4-2. At least it isn't fully Madrid Figo version like last time.

With Hidegkuti also coming down for the ball. The only structural problem is that is not shany and fanncy enough, but it provides a perfect platform for both Hristo and Eusebio. And the only real issue is Scholes and the left zone cover as it is not so convincing as that right side, nor Scholes loved to drift that much.

Scholes of this vintage has a defined role - a big one, but very specific otherwise he's not being optimised, but if you optimise him, are you optimising Falcao?
They will have more of a ball, think Falcao will be fine. And am perfectly fine with raising the subject about midfields in this game.

With his brilliant midfield I expect him to dominate possession which should play into our hands as with Djalma taking care of Stoichkov and Baresi able to track Hidegkuti into midfield..
First of all, this doesn't make any semse. We will dominate possession which will play right into their hands.... Our defence will have a shit ton to deal with, but is great as they loved to be battered most of the time so they will have a chance to prove how brilliant they are. 'Go along boys, your time to prove it's worth'

It is a solid intro about Raees, but he spends a solid amount of time on a midfield battle for a reason. I would do the same, so no issue taken. There is no midfield battle here though. It is Baresi, Moore heroic performance from Muller scrap from the ass. Which is of course highely possible too.

Love the remark about Veron - Scholes dynamic though.

Are Falcao and Scholes compatible? My worry here is that it is reminscent of Scholes feeling 'pissed' when Veron stepped on his turf and also at being sidelined when Gerrard and Lampard were in midfield with him. Now Falcao is a better player than any of these guys but Scholes' personality is a quirky one and he has an ego.. he does like to be the side's primary playmaker and when he isn't, can throw his toys out of the pram
Scholes 06 - 09 version which never played with any of those mentioned in a role here described. Good try though. Because Scholes wasn't deeper and controlling the game it might be an issue here where he will be in a position to conrol it and provide Falcao platform to go forward.

Boniek as a winger in a 4-4-2 and Djalma as overlapping figure behind Figo? And am the one having structural problems.
 

Šjor Bepo

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also dont see any issue with beams midfield, its actually a thing of beauty, specially when you add Hidegkuti with who you dont even want a classical attacking mid/10 so Falcao is pretty much perfect.
 

Jim Beam

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@Jim Beam

How much did Camacho get forward? I can't tell from the footage I have seen of him
That left side is certainly a bit of an issue as it is not on a level "feck we will not even try on that side".

I watched him twice, he wasn't a flank dominator for sure. He was full of energy, great and wouldn't look out of depth against any winger. But... that left side is the only "weak" spot here in structural and defensive sense. But, I would have no problem with him going against Figo, it is just that it isn't so assuring in a collective sense as the right side.

Valid question and probable issue in a sense Physio.
 

Raees

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Thinking Jim has some structural problems in having Scholes anywhere but behind the halfway line at the base of the centre circle if it's the DLP incarnation. He was never the best off the ball runner in defensive phases, and was even more reluctant to run as the DLP. As mentioned, he wants to knit play and have runners around him, but he does that from deep in the '06 - '09 era. Falcao would be at the tip or the further most forward of the midfielders, but he himself takes on the ball and wants to drive action with it from deepish, so there's a logistical issue there. For me, the '99-'02 Scholes would have been more beneficial to Raees side, both for his goal threat, but also in being used to, and accepting of, his midfield partner having more touches and the control of the flow of the game.

Not keen on Baresi-Moore on Raaes' end.

Both teams have issues preventing shots from distance from the cannons in the opposing midfields. Any plans in place to prevent this


Going to have a read of the ensuing convos, see where this goes and what arguments are put forth on each side.
With Pluskal at CDM, and a genuine box-to-box force in Van Hanegam, I do not see how we will have issues with shots from distance? Pluskal was exceptional defensively and in someone like Baresi who puts his body on the line in terms of blocks.. not to mention a supreme shot stopper in Chilavert, I think we are well equipped to deal with long shots.


As for Moore and Baresi, ideally I wanted Figueroa but they're not the most incompatible pair. Baresi is capable of man-marking aggressively and pushing out to follow his man, just like he did here with Romario who would interchange with Bebeto to try and lose the Italian. This is different to Bobby Moore who would tend to drop off and nearly always operate as a Sweeper. So tactically they can dovetail well together as one is more fire and the other is more ice. Final point to raise is that the defensive IQ in my defence is off the charts... Djalma, Moore and Baresi are three of the smartest defenders of all time period.

 

Jim Beam

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Absolutely agree with the above. Chilavert, Baresi, Moore and 0-0 on penalties is a possible scenario. And everyone getting 10/10 performance.

There is another possible scenario, but am biased so will not mention it.
 

Raees

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also dont see any issue with beams midfield, its actually a thing of beauty, specially when you add Hidegkuti with who you dont even want a classical attacking mid/10 so Falcao is pretty much perfect.
For me Falcao has proven with 82 midfield that he is very versatile and adaptable. So for me personally I don't see him struggling with having other playmakers in the side. I don't even see Hidegkuti struggling either who had to dovetail with Puskas/Bozsik.

Scholes is a big problem though.. he threatened to leave United when Veron arrived and was never happy at having his 'orchestrator in chief' role taken away from him. Also worth noting that he only truly rose in prominence when Cantona was suspended due to kung fu kick and when Cantona left so that also raises questions as to how compatible he would be with Hidegkuti.

Scholes was a guaranteed pick in an immortal midfield quartet along with Roy Keane, Ryan Giggs, and David Beckham that was only disrupted by the club record addition of Juan Sebastian Veron in 2001. Sir Alex Ferguson tweaked Scholes's role to accommodate Veron but the England international struggled for form and refused to play in a Monday night League Cup tie at Arsenal.

Paul Scholes on Veron

‘Everyone knows how good a player he was. It just wasn’t the way we played. ‘We were always either a 4-4-1-1 team or a 4-4-2, it was very simple. The 4-3-3 was never something we did. ‘Maybe we did it on the odd occasion away from home in European games. But that system, at that time, just didn’t suit all three of us [Scholes, Veron and Roy Keane] playing in the same team.’


Read more: https://metro.co.uk/2020/05/12/manchester-united-news-paul-scholes-explains-why-juan-sebastian-veron-flopped-gary-neville-12690758/?ito=cbshare
 

Šjor Bepo

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@Raees how is this even an issue? this is specifically the reason why we were naming peaks so we can avoid this non arguments. He isnt using that Scholes that played with Veron, if Scholes didnt change his playing style completely you could still make a case of that mind you but he did. Scholes that played with Veron and Keane and Scholes from 06-09 had very little in common.
 

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Scholes is a big problem though.. he threatened to leave United when Veron arrived and was never happy at having his 'orchestrator in chief' role taken away from him. Also worth noting that he only truly rose in prominence when Cantona was suspended due to kung fu kick and when Cantona left so that also raises questions as to how compatible he would be with Hidegkuti.
So, he might be a problem in a role he actually loves?

That second part is something I have to think more though. Again, Scholes who will not play further forward rose to the prominence when kung fu kick from Cantona came. As he was then playing further forward. Which he is not doing here?
 

Raees

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First of all, this doesn't make any semse. We will dominate possession which will play right into their hands.... Our defence will have a shit ton to deal with, but is great as they loved to be battered most of the time so they will have a chance to prove how brilliant they are. 'Go along boys, your time to prove it's worth'

It is a solid intro about Raees, but he spends a solid amount of time on a midfield battle for a reason. I would do the same, so no issue taken. There is no midfield battle here though. It is Baresi, Moore heroic performance from Muller scrap from the ass. Which is of course highely possible too.

Love the remark about Veron - Scholes dynamic though.
Your comments are quite disingenuous to be honest. No defence would love to be battered and hence why the shield of Pluskal and Van Hanegam is there to protect.. and by sitting deep, it isn't necessarily to protect the defence which is a top tier defence by any stretch of the imagination but to reflect the fact Stoichkov and Eusebio will be looking to find gaps centrally in order to be effective and by taking that away from them, they will be less potent.

Secondly, it is a matter of fact that your midfield will be superior and therefore it is worth explaining how my side despite their deficiencies in this area will look to negate that area of weakness. Tactically it makes sense for me to concede possession against a technically superior and numerically superior midfield and look to bypass that area of the pitch to get at your back 4 as soon as possible. It doesn't require heroic performances, just everyone singing off the same hymn sheet and execute the tactical plan to perfection which with the calibre of players we have in the side is very much possible.

Djalma as overlapping figure behind Figo? And am the one having structural problems.
Look at the formation graphic is there any overlapping arrows on Djalma? why paint a false narrative... Also does Figo need an overlapping full-back to handle himself as a right winger.. the most dominant winger of the early 00's.. I highly doubt it.
 

Raees

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@Raees how is this even an issue? this is specifically the reason why we were naming peaks so we can avoid this non arguments. He isnt using that Scholes that played with Veron, if Scholes didnt change his playing style completely you could still make a case of that mind you but he did. Scholes that played with Veron and Keane and Scholes from 06-09 had very little in common.
It is an even bigger issue with the peak he used, because Scholes that played with Veron was a more attacking force who in theory could have complemented the deeper lying Veron. Scholes of 06-09 would 100% not be compatible with Veron. That raises questions as to whether he would be complementary with a fellow CM playmaking maestro in Falcao.
 

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It is an even bigger issue with the peak he used, because Scholes that played with Veron was a more attacking force who in theory could have complemented the deeper lying Veron. Scholes of 06-09 would 100% not be compatible with Veron. That raises questions as to whether he would be complementary with a fellow CM playmaking maestro in Falcao.
sorry for taking over the debate but what deep-lying Veron? He was always on the verge of being a number 10 rather then a deep-lying playmaker. I really dont see a connection here not the issue in general with that midfield, lets leave it at that and maybe others will say what they think.
 

Jim Beam

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Your comments are quite disingenuous to be honest.
My comments? We are just into the game and you have kung foo Cantona kick as an argument why Scholes might not work with Hidegkuti. In a role he doesn't play here? I don't know where you even thought this could be a proper argument.

So leave that disingenuous comment out ot it.

Look at the formation graphic is there any overlapping arrows on Djalma? why paint a false narrative... Also does Figo need an overlapping full-back to handle himself as a right winger.. the most dominant winger of the early 00's.. I highly doubt it.
"I would love an overlapping FB for a 4-4-2 to be functional" Sound familiar or you need a quote?

In a 4-4-2 I would personally loved a more attacking FB and I don't like Boniek role. It is ok, but not ideal.
 

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sorry for taking over the debate but what deep-lying Veron? He was always on the verge of being a number 10 rather then a deep-lying playmaker. I really dont see a connection here not the issue in general with that midfield, lets leave it at that and maybe others will say what they think.
Veron was a 10 at United?
 

Jim Beam

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Veron was a 10 at United?
Tbf I also think he wasn't. But, don't think you can use it any way here and give some doubts about Scholes role.

I would replace Scholes probably, but it has nothing to do with the attack or any of this arguments. Would just prefer a more defensive all around presence. Bastian for example.

But purely in attacking terms it is lovely imHo.
 

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in all seriousness, i didnt say he was a 10....i said that he was always(both in italy at his peak and at united) more of an attacking midfielder or to be precise that was much closer to attacking mid then to a deep-lying midfielder. feck knows what he was doing at United, from memory and from hearing stories from Neville and other players he was trying to play as some sort of floating midfielder(again not even close to deep one) at time where we were playing 442 in 90% of games. Great player but awful fit for United as a whole at the time.
 

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In Falcao and Rijkaard, he will dominate possession and that is before we even add Scholes to the conversation. There is no point in me arguing we will stand a chance in this regard but what we do have is two really strong fighters who complement each other really well and will be looking to sit deep anyway. They will be instructed to not get phased if we are not in possession, mark space and when on the ball.. pass between the lines and feed our dynamic forward line as quick as possible. Van Hanagem's pin point passing and ability to break enemy lines with his strength
For example this is a fair reflection and something we can talk about.

Not Cantona kung foo kick.
 

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For me Falcao has proven with 82 midfield that he is very versatile and adaptable. So for me personally I don't see him struggling with having other playmakers in the side. I don't even see Hidegkuti struggling either who had to dovetail with Puskas/Bozsik.

Scholes is a big problem though.. he threatened to leave United when Veron arrived and was never happy at having his 'orchestrator in chief' role taken away from him. Also worth noting that he only truly rose in prominence when Cantona was suspended due to kung fu kick and when Cantona left so that also raises questions as to how compatible he would be with Hidegkuti.
That quote doesn't tell us that Scholes didn't like Veron being the orchestrator. It just says Scholes, Veron and Keane couldn't work together. Scholes was an SS when Veron came or a goalscoring LM, Veron was an 8. I don't remember Veron and Scholes not playing well together when Butt was at DM. The issue IIRC was Keane.

Obviously as others have mentioned, this is a different Scholes and also Falcao is much less dominant and versatile than Veron ever was.
 

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Also does Figo need an overlapping full-back to handle himself as a right winger.. the most dominant winger of the early 00's.. I highly doubt it.
"Need" is relative, but I definitely think he'd profit a lot from wide support - to free him up in his movement, create more options & dynamic, etc. Pretty much what I tried to say at the end of the last match thread. Although maybe less of an issue in your counter attacking setup than a more possession-oriented one.

Can you say something about Marzolini's attacking game? Only footage I've seen is this compilation, but he appears like a more conservative FB there. (At the same time pretty great at that & like someone you'd want to have on Eusebio.)
 

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That quote doesn't tell us that Scholes didn't like Veron being the orchestrator. It just says Scholes, Veron and Keane couldn't work together. Scholes was an SS when Veron came or a goalscoring LM, Veron was an 8. I don't remember Veron and Scholes not playing well together when Butt was at DM. The issue IIRC was Keane.

Obviously as others have mentioned, this is a different Scholes and also Falcao is much less dominant and versatile than Veron ever was.
Scholes was pushed to SS to accommodate Veron.

In the 99 treble season for instance he played in the two man pairing in midfield as we operated with two strikers up top.

Now this is irrelevant as we are discussing Scholes in 06-09 but the point is that the older Scholes was even less versatile and a proper 8 which is exactly where Veron or Falcao would operate.

The other point is that Scholes considered leaving because he did not feel as valued anymore and he also quit England because he felt like his talents were not appreciated. That is the sign of someone who does not like having his role as an orchestrator and central playmaker being put in jeapordy.

So whilst Falcao is indeed versatile enough tactically and mentally to make it work - I don’t think Scholes is.
 

Raees

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"Need" is relative, but I definitely think he'd profit a lot from wide support - to free him up in his movement, create more options & dynamic, etc. Pretty much what I tried to say at the end of the last match thread. Although maybe less of an issue in your counter attacking setup than a more possession-oriented one.

Can you say something about Marzolini's attacking game? Only footage I've seen is this compilation, but he appears like a more conservative FB there. (At the same time pretty great at that & like someone you'd want to have on Eusebio.)
Marzolini attacking game was average at best. He’s definitely a top tier defender but attacking wise I wouldn’t say he’s going to be particularly bombing on so that is a tactical weakness in my part.

I would liken him to a Maldini in the sense that he was a right footed defensive full back with some decent build up play contribution but he’s less effective than Maldini past half way line. He will get forward more than Djalma but I am relying more on Boniek and Van Hanegam to provide the width with Albert also drifting out to the left.
 

harms

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I'd say that Veron in terms of his interpretation of the role was quite close to Falcão at Roma — both weren't number 10s, but both were constantly compared to the likes of Zidane & Platini because they've played as the most advanced midfielder with a full license to go forward. The same way you'd want Pogba on the left of a midfield three but not as a number 10 in 4-2-3-1 — their playing style and attributes were better highlighted in a slightly deeper role.

Not sure why those Scholes quotes are even brought up though. I mean, you can use that quote about 4-4-2 to prove that our 2006-2008 set up with him at the very center of it simply wouldn't work.

‘Everyone knows how good a player he was. It just wasn’t the way we played. ‘We were always either a 4-4-1-1 team or a 4-4-2, it was very simple. The 4-3-3 was never something we did. ‘Maybe we did it on the odd occasion away from home in European games. But that system, at that time, just didn’t suit all three of us [Scholes, Veron and Roy Keane] playing in the same team.’
What kind of a fool put him in a midfield 3, ffs?
 

Jim Beam

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Not sure why those Scholes quotes are even brought up though. I mean, you can use that quote about 4-4-2 to prove that our 2006-2008 set up with him at the very center of it simply wouldn't work.
You can also use a 3 year peak to argue he wasn't that good. I disagree, but it is something worth discussing.

Not this though. It is a plain strange hill to die on imo.
 

Joga Bonito

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I can see why having a relatively static deep lying midfielder - Gerson, Pirlo or a domineering CM - Xavi, Didi etc could be an issue with significant overlaps and the older version of Scholes could very well be classified in the former category.

Not quite seeing an issue with Falcão though who was more of an all round midfield playmaker (sort of like Modric imo) capable of playing with other creative midfielders and has done so in the past - with Di Bartolomei being a prime example. Iirc, Di Bartolomei was much more likely to ping a long ball or play medium ranged passes, as opposed to linking up or taking the mickey out of the opposition with one-twos etc.

Before we forget, Scholes wasn't just all about pinging one out to the flank but was fantastic with his link up play and fairly agile and had great off the ball movement (in spurts during the possession phase).


If anything Falcão will relish playing with Scholes imo. Mind you, it could very well be my bias clouding my judgment here but I genuinely see them gelling together well.
 

Physiocrat

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Scholes was pushed to SS to accommodate Veron.
That's partially true although that Scholes was more of a goalscoring midfielder before Veron than a playmaker at that time. I actually think Scholes at SS with Veron and Butt in midfield did and would have worked very well indeed.

Back to this Scholes, I really don't see the issue. A DLP and an 8 seem fine. I suppose though you could say Scholes may be better in front of teh back four with a B2B next to him. I think that would be fair but it would limit Beam's full-backs. I don't think either side is tactically perfect I just didn't buy your Scholes argument