Il Fenomeno Draft - R1 - DVG7 vs. Šjor Bepo

With players at their career peak, who would win?

  • DVG7

    Votes: 7 46.7%
  • Šjor Bepo

    Votes: 8 53.3%

  • Total voters
    15
  • Poll closed .

Invictus

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Career peak - 3 years. Which means 3 seasons so in a formation picture you will put Gerd Muller(71-74) which means from season 71/72 until the season 73/74, summer tournaments will be accounted on either side so summer of 71 before the season and summer of 74 after the season goes into evaluation.




Team DVG7

TACTICS

I have a lot of respect for sjor bepo and look forward to the discussions. I don't think there's much surprise about my line-up, for me its the hardest working unit in the draft with absolute world class ability all over the park. As a celtic fan second, I find it easier than most to wax lyrical about Dalglish and his ability to play a centre forward role, but the reality is he's brilliant in that position especially with peak Lato coming inside to support him. On that note, Lato and C. Alberto is a devastating right flank, bringing out the best in each other, whereas on the other side the sheer industry of Irwin and Nedved is reason alone for them to have a massive impact on this game, but together they form a left hand side that has a little bit of everything.


Hoping we can have a good thread here with some good player profiles popping up.

Best of luck @Šjor Bepo and thanks for putting together the draft, loved the format.




TEAM ŠJOR BEPO

Tactics

Defensive wise:
At worst case scenario 9 hardworking players, not sure about Spencer but id assume he is the same as he looked like a willing runner in 66 so a younger version should have even more bite in him. Anyways, managers dream to have such a group of players which should enable the team to defend as a group and stay compact at all times. Opponents lack of elite dribblers will make it a bit easier as well as they are the ones that disrupt the compactness and defensive systems.
Defensive line should be like in Fergie United teams, not deep but not very high either. Somewhere in the middle with players pressing the ball as a unit around the middle of the park.

Offensive wise:
With the quality in the press i reckon there should be plenty of chances to exploit the counters and with Robbo, Iniesta and Chislenko in the mix there is plenty of candidates who can run them, start them and finish them.
On the ball team has a little bit of everything, absolutely ridiculous front 2 of Spencer and Pele who is going to be the center of everything. Everyone in the team love the one two and Pele was an absolute master of it, him combining with Iniesta should be an absolute spectacle. Add to that Robbo as a third man running and with his goalscoring capabilities, its even a bigger goal threat then the aerial delivery for Pele and Spencer of which his GOAT strike partner thinks that he is one of the rare players that is actually better in the air then him.
 

Edgar Allan Pillow

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Monster midfield from DVG7, but there's a distinct lack of goal scorers. Dalglish is a SS and not ideal for leading the line. If he had gone for Rush than Dalglish....Rijkaard is best fit for Pele though.

Nice 442 from Sjor! Any information on Belodedici and how he matches up against Dalglish?

Overall, in a tight game, I'd expect the better goal threat of Sjor to make the difference, for now.
 

DVG7

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Monster midfield from DVG7, but there's a distinct lack of goal scorers. Dalglish is a SS and not ideal for leading the line. If he had gone for Rush than Dalglish....Rijkaard is best fit for Pele though.

Nice 442 from Sjor! Any information on Belodedici and how he matches up against Dalglish?

Overall, in a tight game, I'd expect the better goal threat of Sjor to make the difference, for now.
His teammates opinion on him. He’s more than capable of playing as a centre forward.

“He just saw a different picture to everybody else. In those days, you are fighting to get hold of the ball and if I was winning the ball in the last third and I knew I did not have much time on the ball, then I was just looking for his feet.

I had one intention when I played with him - he would park himself up against the centre-half in the box and then the centre-halves were in desperate trouble. The minute he could feel them with his touch and control, he would wrong-foot them and then get shots off, or dink it round the corner for someone to get a shot themselves.

And one of his biggest assets, which no one ever talks about, is his bravery. He is not the biggest and he was playing against some big men”
 

Šjor Bepo

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good luck @DVG7 , would love to shit all over your team but this time you didnt build worst anything :)

See two things regarding the game/team.
1. From my know knowledge Kenny always played with a strike partner, dont see an issue playing of the position as i do that often to players but not sure if he has it in the locker. Has everything you need from both a F9 and proper n9 but up to a certain point. Lack a bit of finesse and creativity to play as a classic F9 or a workrate and selflessness to go Firmino route(nor you have supporting cast for that), and while he was decent physically i dont think its enough to play the lone role, that supporting floating role suited him to a t.

2. Lesser issue in general but considering my team it is pretty big - lack of creativity. Im one of those that absolutely loves Matthaus in a main midfielder role rather then a "watercarrier" role to some dominant n10 but you needed a bit more creativity in that front line.
Not only creativity but also a lack of elite dribblers that would disrupt my cohesive unit.
 

DVG7

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good luck @DVG7 , would love to shit all over your team but this time you didnt build worst anything :)

See two things regarding the game/team.
1. From my know knowledge Kenny always played with a strike partner, dont see an issue playing of the position as i do that often to players but not sure if he has it in the locker. Has everything you need from both a F9 and proper n9 but up to a certain point. Lack a bit of finesse and creativity to play as a classic F9 or a workrate and selflessness to go Firmino route(nor you have supporting cast for that), and while he was decent physically i dont think its enough to play the lone role, that supporting floating role suited him to a t.

2. Lesser issue in general but considering my team it is pretty big - lack of creativity. Im one of those that absolutely loves Matthaus in a main midfielder role rather then a "watercarrier" role to some dominant n10 but you needed a bit more creativity in that front line.
Not only creativity but also a lack of elite dribblers that would disrupt my cohesive unit.
the game is primed for matthaus to be man of the match, in which regard he’ll link up very well with Dalglish.

The arrow on lato indicates that he will play more of a right forward role, akin to the way he was in the 74 World Cup. Given that there’s no super threat coming down your left, Lato is able to play inside frequently. Both he and Dalglish were quick and nimble, something your centre backs aren’t.
 

Šjor Bepo

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@Šjor Bepo wasn’t 12-15 lahm predominantly a DM under Guardiola?
No, 12/13 he played fully as a RB under Jupp IIRC and even under Pep i reckon its at worst 50:50 ratio but think most big games he played on the right, same thing on the World Cup, Low fluffed around with the idea in the group stages but as soon as the proper competition started Lahm was at his best position.
 

Šjor Bepo

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the game is primed for matthaus to be man of the match, in which regard he’ll link up very well with Dalglish.

The arrow on lato indicates that he will play more of a right forward role, akin to the way he was in the 74 World Cup. Given that there’s no super threat coming down your left, Lato is able to play inside frequently. Both he and Dalglish were quick and nimble, something your centre backs aren’t.
As i said, i adode Lothar in that role but even at his absolute best in WC 90 when he was against the bundle of energy that is Gazza his game was limited and he went from a superhero to a great defensive midfielder - now Robbo can provide that same energy, fight to the death attitude and even better defensive game then the drunk loonie we all adore.

Cannavaro wasnt quick and nimble? He had Thierry Henry in his pocket while both at their peak, reckon Henry should have a proper look in the mirror at how that happened given the fact a slow, non agile midget put him to sleep.
 

DVG7

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@Šjor Bepo your lack of wide threat here means your play is forced to come through the middle. I don’t think you can really do better than the best b2b midfielder of all time plus the best defensive midfielder of all time in terms of stopping peles influence. Spencer is one of those names on peles greatest 125 list that makes people think he was better than he was, but what’s the reason for his lack of international appearances and underwhelming goal record at that level? All in all, I’ve got you beat through the middle and on the flanks offensively, and have enough solidarity in my back line with the help of 3 exceptional midfielders plus a front 3 full of industry.

in a draft like this, the way you get the personnel to at least appear to be able to function together is via their workrate and dogged determination. Your team has it in places, mine has it Everywhere. You put a team of individual stars together and it might not work, but a team like mine is just sure fire to gel right away.
 

DVG7

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As i said, i adode Lothar in that role but even at his absolute best in WC 90 when he was against the bundle of energy that is Gazza his game was limited and he went from a superhero to a great defensive midfielder - now Robbo can provide that same energy, fight to the death attitude and even better defensive game then the drunk loonie we all adore.

Cannavaro wasnt quick and nimble? He had Thierry Henry in his pocket while both at their peak, reckon Henry should have a proper look in the mirror at how that happened given the fact a slow, non agile midget put him to sleep.
are you referring to france v Italy in 06?
 

Šjor Bepo

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Nice 442 from Sjor! Any information on Belodedici and how he matches up against Dalglish?
Pretty much a classic sweeper, classy on the ball though doesnt really go up like Baresi and co.
Great reading of the game, fantastic organizer and pretty good 1v1....Zvezda dominated in his time there with the absolute peak in 91 where they made the biggest success in history from this parts of the europe, winning the European Cup. He absolutely dominated in every game of the tournament and IMO was robbed of a spot in top 3 of that years Balon Dor, specially given the fact two of his teammates were on the podium - Savicevic and Pancev(biggest robbery in history of award).
Amazing performance against Bayern:
Likewise in the final against at the time one of the hottest properties in world football and that years Balon dor winner - Papin.
 

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the best WC ever by a defender IMO (without it theres no way he’s talked about in a top 10 stopper list) but you have to admit that France Henry wasnt the same beast.
 

Šjor Bepo

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@Šjor Bepo your lack of wide threat here means your play is forced to come through the middle. I don’t think you can really do better than the best b2b midfielder of all time plus the best defensive midfielder of all time in terms of stopping peles influence. Spencer is one of those names on peles greatest 125 list that makes people think he was better than he was, but what’s the reason for his lack of international appearances and underwhelming goal record at that level? All in all, I’ve got you beat through the middle and on the flanks offensively, and have enough solidarity in my back line with the help of 3 exceptional midfielders plus a front 3 full of industry.

in a draft like this, the way you get the personnel to at least appear to be able to function together is via their workrate and dogged determination. Your team has it in places, mine has it Everywhere. You put a team of individual stars together and it might not work, but a team like mine is just sure fire to gel right away.
i mean just wow.....

yeah, Spencer is the same case like El Hadji Diouf, its not you cant watch him and asses his career on your own.
Its not like he was the crucial player if not the best in his team winning two Copa Libertadores in a row.

As for lack of wide threat? Both strikers loved to play all over the place and they can do it as well because there is two of them - this sounds lovely. On the right you have Chislenko of who Facchetti still has nightmares while on the left there is Iniesta in his role where he pissed all over Europe at both international and club level. Think you mention your Celtic connection, then you should know about Gemmell qualities going forwards.
Whats even funnier is that you have Lato joining Kenny in the middle and Nedved on the left side where he loved to go inside from the start of attacks. So if anyone is having wide problems its the one that is mentioning them.
 

Šjor Bepo

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feck i was planning to watch dead drafters tonight, what you reckon that we wait for non biased contribution? :D
 

crappycraperson

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Only issue with Dvg team is Dalglish up top otherwise. Iniesta for me absolutely has to play as part of a proper midfield three. With Pele in 70 role, I think sjor's team would have been much better off with a proper left winger or forward.
 

Šjor Bepo

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Only issue with Dvg team is Dalglish up top otherwise. Iniesta for me absolutely has to play as part of a proper midfield three. With Pele in 70 role, I think sjor's team would have been much better off with a proper left winger or forward.
Like with Rivelino?
Btw are people forgetting that Iniesta actually played on the wing and pretty much shit all over everyone at 2 Euro's IIRC. He defends that left flank, in possession he has all the freedom in the world and he would pretty much operate in same zones where he was operating his whole career.
 

DVG7

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Like with Rivelino?
Btw are people forgetting that Iniesta actually played on the wing and pretty much shit all over everyone at 2 Euro's IIRC. He defends that left flank, in possession he has all the freedom in the world and he would pretty much operate in same zones where he was operating his whole career.
the two players iniesta will most likely have to contend with are matthaus and carlos alberto. please let me know the players iniesta shat all over as a left sided midfielder that even come close to that.


I think in a draft like this, players like iniesta lose some stock because so much of their greatness comes from the team they were a part of.


Iniesta is used to having busquets or xavi pass him the ball, accurately and at pace.... Kante is quite simply incapable of doing this.
 

DVG7

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i mean just wow.....

yeah, Spencer is the same case like El Hadji Diouf, its not you cant watch him and asses his career on your own.
Its not like he was the crucial player if not the best in his team winning two Copa Libertadores in a row.

As for lack of wide threat? Both strikers loved to play all over the place and they can do it as well because there is two of them - this sounds lovely. On the right you have Chislenko of who Facchetti still has nightmares while on the left there is Iniesta in his role where he pissed all over Europe at both international and club level. Think you mention your Celtic connection, then you should know about Gemmell qualities going forwards.
Whats even funnier is that you have Lato joining Kenny in the middle and Nedved on the left side where he loved to go inside from the start of attacks. So if anyone is having wide problems its the one that is mentioning them.
You havent answered my question regards spencer internationally? genuinely interested as its a strange recoord. and wasnt juan joya the star of that penarol side?
 

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Synco

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About @Šjor Bepo's team:

The flanks look good to me; Gemmell behind Iniesta makes sense, as it allows the latter to move around at will. Pele has lots of playmates there, all offering something different. He should thrive imo, and that's a big factor.

I think the combination of numbers and grit gives DVG's team an edge in CM, imo. But if a midfield two can put up a fight, it's Kante & Robson. Sjor, how much support from your forwards do you expect?

Backline looks good.

---------------------

About @DVG7's team:

In terms of their favoured role in possession, Rijkaard, Matthäus, and Coluna may be a bit too much of the same. Especially since there's another energetic ball carrier on the left in Nedved. Maybe a different element would have been good?

I also have a question about Carlos Alberto as the overlapper behind the roaming Lato (if I interpret the arrows correctly). I don't know too much about him, but some of it indicates he may have been rather reserved in the final third. @DVG, you probably see that differently?

Apart from that caveat (as I said, not even sure about it), the backline looks top notch to me, and the CBs seem to be a pretty good stylistic fit for Sjor's forwards. Add Rijkaard & Matthäus, and that team has a chance to handle Pele & his buddys.

Can't comment on Dalglish in that role & will wait for more neutral input on this.
 

DVG7

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About @Šjor Bepo's team:

The flanks look good to me; Gemmell behind Iniesta makes sense, as it allows the latter to move around at will. Pele has lots of playmates there, all offering something different. He should thrive imo, and that's a big factor.

I think the combination of numbers and grit gives DVG's team an edge in CM, imo. But if a midfield two can put up a fight, it's Kante & Robson. Sjor, how much support from your forwards do you expect?

Backline looks good.

---------------------

About @DVG7's team:

In terms of their favoured role in possession, Rijkaard, Matthäus, and Coluna may be a bit too much of the same. Especially since there's another energetic ball carrier on the left in Nedved. Maybe a different element would have been good?

I also have a question about Carlos Alberto as the overlapper behind the roaming Lato (if I interpret the arrows correctly). I don't know too much about him, but some of it indicates he may have been rather reserved in the final third. @DVG, you probably see that differently?

Apart from that caveat (as I said, not even sure about it), the backline looks top notch to me, and the CBs seem to be a pretty good stylistic fit for Sjor's forwards. Add Rijkaard & Matthäus, and that team has a chance to handle Pele & his buddys.

Can't comment on Dalglish in that role & will wait for more neutral input on this.
you don’t need to decipher anything about how my midfield would come out on top here, footage of these 3 versus other midfields is re-enacted in the avengers.

 

DVG7

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@Synco i do get what you mean though, but their instructions in this match are straightforward. Coluna loves to move to the left, with the area not getting too overcrowded thanks to Irwin’s discipline, Rijkaard is the best DM ever with the task of helping stop Pelé (physically I’d argue this is the best possible player to stop 67-70 Pelé) and Matthäus is capable of filling in the blanks. In this game, they should function very well indeed.
 

Šjor Bepo

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You havent answered my question regards spencer internationally? genuinely interested as its a strange recoord. and wasnt juan joya the star of that penarol side?
I dont know why he has so little games internationally, maybe @antohan knows if he is even around this days.....
That penarol team was stacked but Spencer was probably the star of the team given the fact he was a striker and a best goalscorer and those guys take the cream in 99% of cases. Doesnt even matter, he was absolutely brilliant. Two of the 3 seasons he was top goalscorer of Copa, 2 times he won it in a row and in general his goalscoring record from the time was fantastic.
 

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the two players iniesta will most likely have to contend with are matthaus and carlos alberto. please let me know the players iniesta shat all over as a left sided midfielder that even come close to that.


I think in a draft like this, players like iniesta lose some stock because so much of their greatness comes from the team they were a part of.


Iniesta is used to having busquets or xavi pass him the ball, accurately and at pace.... Kante is quite simply incapable of doing this.
Iniesta loses stock because people are morons, feck me by your describtion he sounds like fecking Pedro.
Gemmell used the ball great, Belodedici was class on the ball, Robson was good on the ball, Kante's on the ball game is underrated as feck, he wont produce nothing holywood esque but is more then capable of protecting the ball under pressure and keep it simple. Chislenko had a great all-around play and feck, maybe the greatest player of all time is there to combine with Iniesta. Those two together would be fecking magic.
 

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@Šjor Bepo can you just admit you took Chislenko to try and get a vote from our Russian posters?
 

DVG7

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Dalglish as a number 9?
central attacker, but not pure out and out number 9 striker. the years I’ve included as his peak were full of goals (a big variety of them too) but it’s his natural game to get involved deeper, he benefits here having Lato playing more inside right than on the wing. Also think Dalglish is about as good as any to get the best out of Matthäus in terms of linking the midfield and attack together.

it’s also worth pointing out that as far as goal threat goes, Lato scored 7 goals in one World Cup which is better than Pelé ever did. This version of pele is much more of a number 10 than a goalgetter, whereas my versions of Lato and Dalglish are them at their goalscoring best.
 

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@Jim Beam just so there’s no confusion, I don’t view a number 9 and a centre forward as necessarily the same thing especially when it comes to Dalglish.
 

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central attacker, but not pure out and out number 9 striker. the years I’ve included as his peak were full of goals (a big variety of them too) but it’s his natural game to get involved deeper, he benefits here having Lato playing more inside right than on the wing. Also think Dalglish is about as good as any to get the best out of Matthäus in terms of linking the midfield and attack together.

it’s also worth pointing out that as far as goal threat goes, Lato scored 7 goals in one World Cup which is better than Pelé ever did. This version of pele is much more of a number 10 than a goalgetter, whereas my versions of Lato and Dalglish are them at their goalscoring best.
Ok DVG (will probably won't vote), but you straight up and tell me you intended to have Dalglish kind of striker after getting that midfield? He is the kind of striker you would like to have in this set up?
 

DVG7

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Ok DVG (will probably won't vote), but you straight up and tell me you intended to have Dalglish kind of striker after getting that midfield? He is the kind of striker you would like to have in this set up?
There are better strikers for this set up, I wanted an unpicked player so cant name (I realized late that he was ineligible for me) shearer or Spencer for it (batistuta wasn’t attainable after Matthäus pick).

this doesn’t take away from the fact that Dalglish is a forward. He’s not a number 10, and is widely regarded as a top 10 support striker of all time, but his finishing was lethal. I’ll quote this from sky sports news website today.


GS: He just saw a different picture to everybody else. In those days, you are fighting to get hold of the ball and if I was winning the ball in the last third and I knew I did not have much time on the ball, then I was just looking for his feet.

I had one intention when I played with him - he would park himself up against the centre-half in the box and then the centre-halves were in desperate trouble. The minute he could feel them with his touch and control, he would wrong-foot them and then get shots off, or dink it round the corner for someone to get a shot themselves.

And one of his biggest assets, which no one ever talks about, is his bravery. He is not the biggest and he was playing against some big men”

this is taken from an article on Liverpool’s greatest ever striker, which Kenny Dalglish is current second place in with almost 30,000 votes cast (rush is #1)
 

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There are better strikers for this set up, I wanted an unpicked player so cant name (I realized late that he was ineligible for me) shearer or Spencer for it (batistuta wasn’t attainable after Matthäus pick).

this doesn’t take away from the fact that Dalglish is a forward. He’s not a number 10, and is widely regarded as a top 10 support striker of all time, but his finishing was lethal. I’ll quote this from sky sports news website today.


GS: He just saw a different picture to everybody else. In those days, you are fighting to get hold of the ball and if I was winning the ball in the last third and I knew I did not have much time on the ball, then I was just looking for his feet.

I had one intention when I played with him - he would park himself up against the centre-half in the box and then the centre-halves were in desperate trouble. The minute he could feel them with his touch and control, he would wrong-foot them and then get shots off, or dink it round the corner for someone to get a shot themselves.

And one of his biggest assets, which no one ever talks about, is his bravery. He is not the biggest and he was playing against some big men”

this is taken from an article on Liverpool’s greatest ever striker, which Kenny Dalglish is current second place in with almost 30,000 votes cast (rush is #1)
Fair enough.
 

DVG7

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@Jim Beam and others.


Just watch the first two minutes and tell me Dalglish can’t play as a centre forward. Think there’s even 5 headed goals in the first half of the video. He’s by quite a distance the best Scottish player of all time, regarded by many as the best Liverpool player of all time, no real weaknesses in attack, two footed, great in the air for his size and his trophy haul is brilliant.