Iliman Ndiaye

dinostar77 said:
He can beat a man from standing start. Work in very tight spaces. Fast feet (which Fergie loved in players). He doesn't need space to run into like alot of modern wingers. We have no one like him in our team. We struggle against low blocks and he's the sort of rare profile that can break them down.

He has that ability that you see in more off the cuff players. It's what makes him so intriguing. So much ability and tricks. I can see why Utd are interested.
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I think you've kind of explained what an issue is with him in the modern game or fans. He's a throwback player in a way. He would have been a monster in a Fergie team in the early 2010s.
 
I doubt Everton would sell for a reasonable price. We got quoted something silly for Branthwaite.
 
SilentWitness said:
I think you've kind of explained what an issue is with him in the modern game or fans. He's a throwback player in a way. He would have been a monster in a Fergie team in the early 2010s.
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I blame the likes of guardiola and their defined patterns of play. They coach the flair out of their wingers. Arteta is just as bad.

Having a maverick in your squad gives you that unpredictability which is so difficult to defend against and prepare your team against. It's why us fans love players like that, they get you off your seat.

On a separate thread we discussed the dearth of Neymar/Ronalidnho/Okacha/Djalminha type players coming through in football today. Ndiaye is one of these type of players. Rare in modern football.
 
Walters_19_MuFc said:
I really like him as a player. I know people will point to his stats - that’s just the game these days - but he offers far more than numbers alone.

He’s the kind of player you can rely on to give you a consistent 7 or 8 out of 10 every week. In contrast, players like Sesko, Cunha and Mbeumo might have quieter games but still pop up with a decisive goal.

What we’re missing is a left-sided winger who can actually connect the attack - someone who can knit everything together in the way Amad does on the right. Again, someone who hasn't got great G+A numbers, but he takes care of the ball, makes things happen in the final third, and rarely gives it away cheaply.

Ndiaye is a proper technician, and having that kind of profile is crucial for balance in the attack, especially against teams that sit in a low block.
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Isn't Cunha all that?
 
andersj said:
His underlying stats is not very different from Semenyo at Bmth. Big difference is that Semenyo had that haul where he greatly outperformed his xg-numbers.
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That moreso offers an insight into why I wasn't super-keen for us to sign Semenyo for massive money either.

Even accepting that's Ndiaye's level, that would add another player rotating in and out of our attack alongside Cunha, Mbeumo and Amad. Which would be fine and certainly improve us, as they're all good players.

But, as @DWelbz19 alludes to above, with those other attackers in place I'd rather take the higher risk move on a potential superstar. As opposed to spending big money to settle for a player who at best is maybe at Cunha & Mbeumo's level, who themselves are very-good-but-not-absolutely-outstanding PL attackers.
 
dinostar77 said:
He can beat a man from standing start. Work in very tight spaces. Fast feet (which Fergie loved in players). He doesn't need space to run into like alot of modern wingers. We have no one like him in our team. We struggle against low blocks and he's the sort of rare profile that can break them down.

He has that ability that you see in more off the cuff players. It's what makes him so intriguing. So much ability and tricks. I can see why Utd are interested.
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Is he that quick? Does he have burners like that? I thought he was more of an above average paced player like Cunha. Not slow, but not what I’d call really fast
 
DWelbz19 said:
Is he that quick? Does he have burners like that? I thought he was more of an above average paced player like Cunha. Not slow, but not what I’d call really fast
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Quick feet, good first step. Also very good ball control so he's able to shield the ball.
 
DWelbz19 said:
Is he that quick? Does he have burners like that? I thought he was more of an above average paced player like Cunha. Not slow, but not what I’d call really fast
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He's not a pace merchant. He's a winger with the skills and ability to beat a man with a trick or a feint from a standing start. Also very good at shielding the ball and not running down blind alleys.

The short video on previous page explains his thinking in his goal against Sunderland I think it was. He's smart in the way he dribbles.
 
sullydnl said:
"He'll produce a lot more for us" is an argument regularly made for players playing in weaker sides in the same league, but how many attackers actually do it when they make the step up to a bigger club?

Mbeumo and Cunha have both (to varying degrees) produced goals/assists at a worse rate this season than they managed in their recent seasons with their previous clubs, even excluding penalties. Ditto the likes of Pedro Neto, Grealish, Lukaku and Richarlison. And the likes of Mane and Mahrez had had already been producing to a high level the season before they made their big move.

The only example I can think of is Diogo Jota, and in his case Liverpool identified that he had massively underperformed his underlying numbers the previous season, which Ndiaye hasn't.
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You seem to be on about as if G+A is the only way to judge a player. Cunha and Neto are playing better than they did for Wolves even if they aren't scoring as much. It's not weird if you think about it, since they were the talisman for Wolves but not for their respective teams, so the G+A get spread out more.

And Mane, Mahrez, Salah etc all did step up even in numbers when moving from a smaller side to a bigger one. It's not an exact science. As SilentWitness has explained above, Ndiaye is critical to Everton's attack as he attracts defenders and opens up space for others (not dissimilar to Cunha this season). As long as our overall attack improves, no one should care about individual numbers.

As I already said in my previous post, I don't think him or even players like Cunha/Mbeumo are going to get us the league. But we don't seem to be aiming for that massive jump at the moment, rather incremental improvement, for which he is fine. If you are looking for a single forward who makes us title contenders, then you need to sign someone like Vinicius Jr, but I doubt we have the appetite or funds for that.
 
Not sure he is worth it.

he is worth at most 40m. Everton would want around 80m.
He'd want big wages too, so if it goes wrong we'd be stuck with him for years.
 
King7Eric said:
You seem to be on about as if G+A is the only way to judge a player. Cunha and Neto are playing better than they did for Wolves even if they aren't scoring as much. It's not weird if you think about it, since they were the talisman for Wolves but not for their respective teams, so the G+A get spread out more.

And Mane, Mahrez, Salah etc all did step up even in numbers when moving from a smaller side to a bigger one. It's not an exact science. As SilentWitness has explained above, Ndiaye is critical to Everton's attack as he attracts defenders and opens up space for others (not dissimilar to Cunha this season). As long as our overall attack improves, no one should care about individual numbers.
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Salah did, but Mahrez and Mane didn't particularly. Mane had 17 goals & assists in his final season at Southampton, followed by 18 and 17 in his first two seasons at Liverpool. And Mahrez had 22 & 28 goal/assist seasons at Leicester before his move to City. Both were clearly producing to a high level before they made their move to a big club.

And while output isn't everything in an attacker, it is a lot. And there's no getting around the fact that Ndiaye's has really been quite poor for a player people want Manchester United to sign.
 
sullydnl said:
Salah did, but Mahrez and Mane didn't particularly. Mane had 17 goals & assists in his final season at Southampton, followed by 18 and 17 in his first two seasons at Liverpool. And Mahrez had 22 & 28 goal/assist seasons at Leicester before his move to City. Both were clearly producing to a high level before they made their move to a big club.

And while output isn't everything in an attacker, it is a lot. And there's no getting around the fact that Ndiaye's has really been quite poor for a player people want Manchester United to sign.
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Playing for a defensive manager who's known for keeping players behind the ball and being cautious.

There are many variables that affect stats. If stats were the definite answer. We wouldn't have scouts anymore.
 
sullydnl said:
Salah did, but Mahrez and Mane didn't particularly. Mane had 17 goals & assists in his final season at Southampton, followed by 18 and 17 in his first two seasons at Liverpool. And Mahrez had 22 & 28 goal/assist seasons at Leicester before his move to City. Both were clearly producing to a high level before they made their move to a big club.

And while output isn't everything in an attacker, it is a lot. And there's no getting around the fact that Ndiaye's has really been quite poor for a player people want Manchester United to sign.
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It's "poor" if you expect him to be a star in a title winning team. That's not we are aiming for at the moment, even though we fans might want that.

If we actually want to be challenging for the title next season, then we need to be ready to spend 100 million on each of the midfield positions (get someone like Anderson and Stiller) and an absolutely elite forward who will give you 20 goals in all competitions.

You are talking about Mahrez and he was signed to contribute immediately to a title winning team (having already been part of one). We aren't really operating at that level. Sure I would love if we were, but that's being disconnected from reality. Ndiaye would be a steady performer who will help us consolidate a CL spot next season which I assume would be the club's goal. Someone like Diomande for example, might have a higher ceiling but he won't deliver immediately and if we recruit in the forward positions this summer, it will be someone like Cunha and Mbeumo, a steady PL performer who we can expect will raise our floor, rather than the ceiling.
 
sullydnl said:
Salah did, but Mahrez and Mane didn't particularly. Mane had 17 goals & assists in his final season at Southampton, followed by 18 and 17 in his first two seasons at Liverpool. And Mahrez had 22 & 28 goal/assist seasons at Leicester before his move to City. Both were clearly producing to a high level before they made their move to a big club.

And while output isn't everything in an attacker, it is a lot. And there's no getting around the fact that Ndiaye's has really been quite poor for a player people want Manchester United to sign.
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It's relative though isn't it. Ndiaye with 9 goals and assists in the league has directly contributed to 24% of our goals (37). You're arguing that Mane had high level output but his 17 for Southampton was 28% of their goals in the league (59) so not that much higher.

Regardless, that final assist/goal sometimes isn't as good as the work done before it and there are plenty examples of Ndiaye doing good work before an Everton goal this season.
 
dinostar77 said:
Playing for a defensive manager who's known for keeping players behind the ball and being cautious.

There are many variables that affect stats. If stats were the definite answer. We wouldn't have scouts anymore.
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A lot of attackers have played for the same defensive manager over the years and produced a lot more, let alone other defensive managers.

Everton have the 14th best attack in the league this season in terms of both goals and underlying stats. They're bad, but they're not some unique basket-case dragging their players' output down in a manner never seen before.

And even if we accept that Everton are particularly terrible this season, he's still only been the 4th most productive player in his own team per 90, 5th if you discount penalties. Behind all of Beto, KDH, Grealish and Barry.

Stats aren't everything. But you'd have to do an insane amount of mental gymnastics to frame his output across the last two seasons as anything other than poor for a player being linked to a massive step up to Manchester United. Even for Everton, 3 assists in 54 league starts is bad.
 
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I think for the price there will be better options out there - i prefer our wide players to have abit more pace than Ndiaye has.

I think someone like Sarr would be a similar price to Ndiaye (maybe even slightly cheaper).

Even Bowen if West Ham are relegated - he might not have electric pace but he has end product
 
LukeTheRed said:
I think for the price there will be better options out there - i prefer our wide players to have abit more pace than Ndiaye has.

I think someone like Sarr would be a similar price to Ndiaye (maybe even slightly cheaper).

Even Bowen if West Ham are relegated - he might not have electric pace but he has end product
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Would love Bowen. I’ve always rated him and think he’d do much better in a better team
 


Look how many times he puts it on a plate for a striker in these clips and they fail to convert.
 
Not enough end product. He could be a back up option for the biggest teams, but not worth it for the price it would take to get him from Everton.

Left winger market in general is bad right now. I don't know what will be the solution to that for next season. Dorgu is a LB(in my opinion), Cunha is not really a winger but can play there, I guess.
 
Looks like he can cover both wings, for a right price, could be a good investment. Could have been a better investment than Mbunda in all honesty. We're in the market for midfielders though.
 
Great player but a bit too much of an overlap with what Cunha gives us when he's on LW to make it worth what he'd cost when we need other things so much more. It's not a comparison of the quality of the two players or what they've produced this season. But Cunha is not a problem to be solved in our squad.

First and foremost we need all sorts of midfielders, as a clear priority. And then on the left flank, either at LB or LW, we need pace, physicality and someone who will hold width. And that's not really Ndiaye, good as he is.
 
Brightonian said:
Great player but a bit too much of an overlap with what Cunha gives us when he's on LW to make it worth what he'd cost when we need other things so much more. It's not a comparison of the quality of the two players or what they've produced this season. But Cunha is not a problem to be solved in our squad.

First and foremost we need all sorts of midfielders, as a clear priority. And then on the left flank, either at LB or LW, we need pace, physicality and someone who will hold width. And that's not really Ndiaye, good as he is.
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Physical and pace in what sense? As Ndiaye has both.
 
Fracture90 said:
Isn't Cunha all that?
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I think Cunha is more forceful in his game, which is not a bad thing. As I said, you need that balance, but I personally don't think he's as neat as Ndiaye. I also think Cunha can be quite inconsistent with his touch. In tight spaces, like Mbeumo, he tends to lose the ball at times, but will then come up with magically moments.
 
dinostar77 said:
He can beat a man from standing start. Work in very tight spaces. Fast feet (which Fergie loved in players). He doesn't need space to run into like alot of modern wingers. We have no one like him in our team. We struggle against low blocks and he's the sort of rare profile that can break them down.

He has that ability that you see in more off the cuff players. It's what makes him so intriguing. So much ability and tricks. I can see why Utd are interested.
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So you think hes really good at breaking down low blocks, but has 6 goals and 3 assists to show for it?

Something doesnt add up

Scout Lab - Ndiaye Some reality here
 
Walters_19_MuFc said:
I think Cunha is more forceful in his game, which is not a bad thing. As I said, you need that balance, but I personally don't think he's as neat as Ndiaye. I also think Cunha can be quite inconsistent with his touch. In tight spaces, like Mbeumo, he tends to lose the ball at times, but will then come up with magically moments.
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Ndiaye seems to have a bit better dribbling that Cunha, but i think Cunha is excellent at beating his man, he's got a great first touch. What would you do with Cunha and Mbunda if you'd sign Ndiaye?
 
I would take him as a squad option for sure, if that was possible. We need multiple options in each spot, but I wouldn't want him as our standout attacking signing.
 
He's a terrific player. If we can get him close to Cunha price, it'll be good business.
 
Fracture90 said:
Ndiaye seems to have a bit better dribbling that Cunha, but i think Cunha is excellent at beating his man, he's got a great first touch. What would you do with Cunha and Mbunda if you'd sign Ndiaye?
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Cunha has also proven he can score double his goals in this league. And in Ndiaye's top scoring season he had 0 assists. He has 3 this season. Cunha is clearly better
 
Ekeke said:
Cunha has also proven he can score double his goals in this league. And in Ndiaye's top scoring season he had 0 assists. He has 3 this season. Cunha is clearly better
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If you reduce everything to just goals and assists perhaps. I don't think there is much between them. Both great players with elite skillsets in different areas.
 
SilentWitness said:
If you reduce everything to just goals and assists perhaps.
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What is football about?

Who scores the most goals

Who are the players most likely to set up and score goals?

Attackers

What is he?

An attacker

Your team struggles to score goals. Think about why that might be.
 
Ekeke said:
What is football about?

Who scores the most goals

Who are the players most likely to set up and score goals?

Attackers

What is he?

An attacker

Your team struggles to score goals. Think about why that might be.
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I already posted a clip from this season where he has about 5 or 6 moments where he puts it on a plate for an attacker and they feck it up.

We also have two fullbacks that are incapable of attacking and strikers that aren't very good.

It's certainly not because of Ndiaye that we struggle to score goals.

Football is also about not conceding and to win a game you need to score more than the opponent i.e you need to reduce the goals they score. Ndiaye is brilliant in both respects for us due to his defensive work, his pressing, his ball carrying, his ability to create etc. It is sad in the world of stats that it has to be pointed out that sometimes goals are not only created from the person who gets the final assist but by hard work and play before that too, which Ndiaye is quite frequently part of.
 
SilentWitness said:
I already posted a clip from this season where he has about 5 or 6 moments where he puts it on a plate for an attacker and they feck it up.

We also have two fullbacks that are incapable of attacking and strikers that aren't very good.

It's certainly not because of Ndiaye that we struggle to score goals.

Football is also about not conceding and to win a game you need to score more than the opponent i.e you need to reduce the goals they score. Ndiaye is brilliant in both respects for us due to his defensive work, his pressing, his ball carrying, his ability to create etc. It is sad in the world of stats that it has to be pointed out that sometimes goals are not only created from the person who gets the final assist but by hard work and play before that too, which Ndiaye is quite frequently part of.
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Every winger faces that. There are games where Haaland misses 4 great chances. There are games where Lewandowski misses great chance after chance

Once again these stats take into account a lot more than just goals and assists. He's decent. Cunha is more than decent

Scout Lab - Ndiaye Some reality here
 
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