Iliman Ndiaye

[Walters_19_MuFc]

Ndiaye seems to have a bit better dribbling that Cunha, but i think Cunha is excellent at beating his man, he's got a great first touch. What would you do with Cunha and Mbunda if you'd sign Ndiaye?

I'd personally like to see:

Cunha
Ndiaye Bruno Mbeumo​

I think Cunha is really good with his back to goal - he actually reminds me a lot of Joao Pedro. He can hold it up, link play, drop into pockets, receive on the half-turn and drive at players, which is why I think he’d be way more effective through the middle than out wide. Him and Bruno dovetailing would be quality to watch, and it fits exactly with how Carrick sets up. He likes his 9 to drop in and connect play. That’s probably why someone like Mbeumo gets the nod over Sesko, but personally Cunha just looks more polished in those tight areas. Then you’ve still got Amad, Mount and Sesko to rotate depending on the game.

 

[SilentWitness]

Every winger faces that. There are games where Haaland misses 4 great chances

Once again these stats take into account a lot more than just goals and assists. He's decent. Cunha is more than decent

Scout Lab - Ndiaye Some reality here

Sure but Haaland and City are also playing with better players overall so will have a greater volume of chances overall. Ndiaye and Everton aren't. He plays with Myko or Jake O'Brien behind him every week which is completely useless in terms of help in an attacking sense.

I'm sorry but I don't just use stats to assess footballers. I like to watch them too. If you're happy just using stats stats stats to assess footballers then you do you but you're going to have a limited view of football.

 

[Ekeke]

I'd personally like to see:

Cunha
Ndiaye Bruno Mbeumo​

I think Cunha is really good with his back to goal - he actually reminds me a lot of Joao Pedro. He can hold it up, link play, drop into pockets, receive on the half-turn and drive at players, which is why I think he’d be way more effective through the middle than out wide. Him and Bruno dovetailing would be quality to watch, and it fits exactly with how Carrick sets up. He likes his 9 to drop in and connect play. That’s probably why someone like Mbeumo gets the nod over Sesko, but personally Cunha just looks more polished in those tight areas. Then you’ve still got Amad, Mount and Sesko to rotate depending on the game.

Cunha has 1 goal and 1 assist from 9 starts "up front", 2 from 7 on the left, 3 from 8 as a #10 and 1 goal 1 assist from 4 sub appearances in various positions

Cunha hasnt been good up front

Adding to a striker with 1 goal in 9 up front you want to use a left winger with 3 assists in 2 seasons

Thats as blunt an attack as I've seen in a while

 

[Ekeke]

Sure but Haaland and City are also playing with better players overall so will have a greater volume of chances overall. Ndiaye and Everton aren't. He plays with Myko or Jake O'Brien behind him every week which is completely useless in terms of help in an attacking sense.

I'm sorry but I don't just use stats to assess footballers. I like to watch them too. If you're happy just using stats stats stats to assess footballers then you do you but you're going to have a limited view of football.

You should do both. You are simply not capable of passing the data with your eyes. You're only human

Its no wonder you think theres nothing wrong with having 3 assists in 2 seasons as a winger.

Meanwhile McNeil had 6 last season alone, Garner and Grealish have 6 each this season

"Well they took set pieces"

Yes. Because they are better at supplying attackers. Thats why they take them.

 

[SilentWitness]

You should do both. You are simply not capable of passing the data with your eyes. You're only human

Its no wonder you think theres nothing wrong with having 3 assists in 2 seasons as a winger.

Meanwhile McNeil had 6 last season alone, Garner and Grealish have 6 each this season

"Well they took set pieces"

Yes. Because they are better at supplying attackers. Thats why they take them.

Hence why I said "I don't just use".

I have acknowledged that Ndiaye could improve his output but I think his output is also relative to the team and certain parameters as much as himself, which is helped by the fact I watch him and Everton every week. Something you can't just pluck from stats.

Again, people place far too much weight on those raw stats sometimes. A goal or an assist can be completely crap compared to the work that was produced before hand. Take the Barry goal against Newcastle where it went in off his arse. The work that Ndiaye does to win the ball back and play it into KDH is more impressive than the goal itself but isn't what's down on the stats paper.

 

[Ekeke]

Hence why I said "I don't just use".

I have acknowledged that Ndiaye could improve his output but I think his output is also relative to the team and certain parameters as much as himself, which is helped by the fact I watch him and Everton every week. Something you can't just pluck from stats.

So you are more used to watching a team that struggles to score which normalizes it for you. Yes exactly.

Everton are 8th. He's not out of place there. He could play for Brentford 1 place up. He could probably start for Villa. He's a decent player

 

[SilentWitness]

So you are more used to watching a team that struggles to score which normalizes it for you. Yes exactly.

Everton are 8th. He's not out of place there. He could play for Brentford 1 place up. He could probably start for Villa. He's a decent player

Okay bud, if that's how you enjoy football then go for it.

 

[Fracture90]

I'd personally like to see:

Cunha
Ndiaye Bruno Mbeumo​

I think Cunha is really good with his back to goal - he actually reminds me a lot of Joao Pedro. He can hold it up, link play, drop into pockets, receive on the half-turn and drive at players, which is why I think he’d be way more effective through the middle than out wide. Him and Bruno dovetailing would be quality to watch, and it fits exactly with how Carrick sets up. He likes his 9 to drop in and connect play. That’s probably why someone like Mbeumo gets the nod over Sesko, but personally Cunha just looks more polished in those tight areas. Then you’ve still got Amad, Mount and Sesko to rotate depending on the game.

Square pegs in round holes mate. That would be shoehorning a player for the sake of it. If we didn't have Mbooty, then Ndiaye would, at the right price, be a great option. But as things stand, getting him now just doesn't make sense. Especially once you consider that we also have Sesko.

 

[dinostar77]

You should do both. You are simply not capable of passing the data with your eyes. You're only human

Its no wonder you think theres nothing wrong with having 3 assists in 2 seasons as a winger.

Meanwhile McNeil had 6 last season alone, Garner and Grealish have 6 each this season

"Well they took set pieces"

Yes. Because they are better at supplying attackers. Thats why they take them.

Did you watch the highlights video that @SilentWitness posted earlier today?

No player has ever been purchased by stats alone. There's always a scout or human involved as stats don't capture everything. They help and they can decieve as well. Just as can the human eye can also help and decieve.

The video highlights and it is highlights shows a player who is extremely capable of playing in any of the 7-10-11 roles and is very creative.

Whoever found him for Everton, did a great job in assessing him. He looks a proper player.

 

[Ekeke]

Did you watch the highlights video that @SilentWitness posted earlier today?

No player has ever been purchased by stats alone. There's always a scout or human involved as stats don't capture everything. They help and they can decieve as well. Just as can the human eye can also help and decieve.

The video highlights and it is highlights shows a player who is extremely capable of playing in any of the 7-10-11 roles and is very creative.

Whoever found him for Everton, did a great job in assessing him. He looks a proper player.

Never said for a second they didnt. I said you need to do both. I explained why someone saying they dont pay attention to stats is the one who, like they infered about the opposite, have a small minded understanding of football.

You watch but you cannot possibly take in all the data. You look at the data and it'll tell you what you missed. Thats why every club uses data.

 

[SilentWitness]

Never said for a second they didnt. I said you need to do both. I explained why someone saying they dont pay attention to stats is the one who, like they infered about the opposite, have a small minded understanding of football.

You watch but you cannot possibly take in all the data. You look at the data and it'll tell you what you missed. Thats why every club uses data.

You obviously didn't read my post then and still haven't. I never said I don't pay attention to stats.

 

[andersj]

I already posted a clip from this season where he has about 5 or 6 moments where he puts it on a plate for an attacker and they feck it up.

We also have two fullbacks that are incapable of attacking and strikers that aren't very good.

It's certainly not because of Ndiaye that we struggle to score goals.

Football is also about not conceding and to win a game you need to score more than the opponent i.e you need to reduce the goals they score. Ndiaye is brilliant in both respects for us due to his defensive work, his pressing, his ball carrying, his ability to create etc. It is sad in the world of stats that it has to be pointed out that sometimes goals are not only created from the person who gets the final assist but by hard work and play before that too, which Ndiaye is quite frequently part of.

I think it is interesting to note that both Ndiaye and Garner gets really highly rated by Gradient.

Gradients system is quite different from conventional stats. Most football data tells you what happened. Like passes completed, shots taken, tackles won. Gradient tells you how well it was executed, and whether it was hard or easy to do.

Every action in a match is graded on a -2 to +2 scale by trained analysts, multiple graders per game, working independently. Those raw grades are then adjusted against 135+ contextual variables (defensive pressure, body position, difficulty) and converted to a 0–100 percentile ranking across 25 skill categories. That’s over 2,000 grades per match.

Why it matters: a simple completed pass to an unmarked teammate and a line-breaking ball under pressure both register as “1 completed pass” in traditional data. Gradient separates the two. This is the difference between measuring output and measuring quality of execution which is what actually predicts whether a player can step up to a higher level.

The system inherits a decade of methodology from PFF, whose grades are used by every NFL team. In football, it’s now trusted by Premier League clubs and integrated into platforms like TransferRoom.

I’m not saying Gradient is perfect, but it is a good bridge between tradional stats and the eye test.

 

[SilentWitness]

I think it is interesting to note that both Ndiaye and Garner gets really highly rated by Gradient.

Gradients system is quite different from conventional stats. Most football data tells you what happened. Like passes completed, shots taken, tackles won. Gradient tells you how well it was executed, and whether it was hard or easy to do.

Every action in a match is graded on a -2 to +2 scale by trained analysts, multiple graders per game, working independently. Those raw grades are then adjusted against 135+ contextual variables (defensive pressure, body position, difficulty) and converted to a 0–100 percentile ranking across 25 skill categories. That’s over 2,000 grades per match.

Why it matters: a simple completed pass to an unmarked teammate and a line-breaking ball under pressure both register as “1 completed pass” in traditional data. Gradient separates the two. This is the difference between measuring output and measuring quality of execution which is what actually predicts whether a player can step up to a higher level.

The system inherits a decade of methodology from PFF, whose grades are used by every NFL team. In football, it’s now trusted by Premier League clubs and integrated into platforms like TransferRoom.

I’m not saying Gradient is perfect, but it is a good bridge between tradional stats and the eye test.

Interesting that! Thanks for posting. I'll have to read more into it.

 

[Ekeke]

You obviously didn't read my post then and still haven't. I never said I don't pay attention to stats.

We are in agreement about that.

What are your thoughts on the stats page I linked? It shows a lot more than goals and assists. It shows progression and creation in buildup play.

Just mouseover each stat and it breaks down how it was calculated. Things like OP big chances created and only having a 56th percentile and progressive actions 53rd percentile

The successful dribbles is obviously very good. But you need to have something coming after it or you wont make it at a big club.

Regardless his post was a response to my response and I just explained why you should both watch and use data in that post.

Also Semenyo is a good example of a player who didnt have a lot of end product then gained it. And because he gained it he got his big move. That can happen with Ndiaye but there are also plenty of players who never have the end product needed.

 

[Walters_19_MuFc]

Square pegs in round holes mate. That would be shoehorning a player for the sake of it. If we didn't have Mbooty, then Ndiaye would, at the right price, be a great option. But as things stand, getting him now just doesn't make sense. Especially once you consider that we also have Sesko.

Definitely not square pegs in round holes. Cunha has played as a forward plenty of times, even before coming to the Premier League, and I’d actually say he looks more natural there than out wide for the reasons I mentioned before - linking play, receiving between the lines, and carrying the ball centrally. If we’re in the Champions League next season and genuinely competing across all competitions, we need at least two high-quality options in every attacking position. For argument’s sake, I’ll class Cunha as a forward, which leaves something like:

Cunha/Sesko
Ndiaye/Dorgu - Bruno/Mount - Mbeumo/Amad​

You could still make the case for Cunha starting from the left depending on the game, but either way, we’re still at least one more top attacking player short if we want proper depth and rotation at Champions League level.

 

[Walters_19_MuFc]

Cunha has 1 goal and 1 assist from 9 starts "up front", 2 from 7 on the left, 3 from 8 as a #10 and 1 goal 1 assist from 4 sub appearances in various positions

Cunha hasnt been good up front

Adding to a striker with 1 goal in 9 up front you want to use a left winger with 3 assists in 2 seasons

Thats as blunt an attack as I've seen in a while

Imagine calling an attack of Ndiaye, Cunha and Mbeumo “blunt”, especially when two of them were among the top goalscores in the Premier League last season. I know you got your stats from WhoScored, but they can be misleading depending on how they classify roles and systems - especially in a structure like a 3-4-3 where a forward is listed as a traditional striker. In Cunha’s case, he still managed 15 goals and 6 assists in a similar role for Wolves last season, and 12 goals the season before that. That’s not something you just ignore. On top of that, Mbeumo hit 20 goals and 7 assists, which is elite output. The point is, the goals are already there in the group. Once the team is more settled and structured, especially under a clearer system, you’d expect even more to come from them.

 

[Ekeke]

Imagine calling an attack of Ndiaye, Cunha and Mbeumo “blunt”, especially when two of them were among the top goalscores in the Premier League last season. I know you got your stats from WhoScored, but they can be misleading depending on how they classify roles and systems - especially in a structure like a 3-4-3 where a forward is listed as a traditional striker. In Cunha’s case, he still managed 15 goals and 6 assists in a similar role for Wolves last season, and 12 goals the season before that. That’s not something you just ignore. On top of that, Mbeumo hit 20 goals and 7 assists, which is elite output. The point is, the goals are already there in the group. Once the team is more settled and structured, especially under a clearer system, you’d expect even more to come from them.

Including Bruno behind them they have 30 goals between them this season

Replace Ndiaye with Sesko and put Cunha on the left and now you have 33 goals without spending any money

Your suggestion sends us backwards whilst spending a bunch of money.

 

[sullydnl]

Imagine calling an attack of Ndiaye, Cunha and Mbeumo “blunt”, especially when two of them were among the top goalscores in the Premier League last season. I know you got your stats from WhoScored, but they can be misleading depending on how they classify roles and systems - especially in a structure like a 3-4-3 where a forward is listed as a traditional striker. In Cunha’s case, he still managed 15 goals and 6 assists in a similar role for Wolves last season, and 12 goals the season before that. That’s not something you just ignore. On top of that, Mbeumo hit 20 goals and 7 assists, which is elite output. The point is, the goals are already there in the group. Once the team is more settled and structured, especially under a clearer system, you’d expect even more to come from them.

Seems like quite selective framing on your part to refer to the 35 goals Cunha & Mbeumo scored between them last season, rather than the much less impressive 16 goals they've scored for our actual team so far this season.

Especially when the context of a lot of the discussion around their numbers in the summer was everyone with even a vague understanding of how stats in football work pointing out that they were clearly never going to repeat last season's output for us. That reality isn't going to magically reverse itself going forward.

 

[Zumbi]

Never said for a second they didnt. I said you need to do both. I explained why someone saying they dont pay attention to stats is the one who, like they infered about the opposite, have a small minded understanding of football.

You watch but you cannot possibly take in all the data. You look at the data and it'll tell you what you missed. Thats why every club uses data.

He never said that though. He said he doesn’t “just use stats”. As in, he uses both stats and the eye test from watching games. Not hard to understand.

 

[prateik]

So few fun players around.. He is one of the few.

 

[goldenboy]

Seems like quite selective framing on your part to refer to the 35 goals Cunha & Mbeumo scored between them last season, rather than the much less impressive 16 goals they've scored for our actual team so far this season.

I think it's fair to consider that both Cunha and Mbeumo's goal tallies have dropped from their typical levels at Wolves and Brentford after moving from lesser clubs to United - some assume goal tallies will always go up at a bigger club, but as more a cog in a wheel of a club who teams often park the bus against, it can actually end up being more difficult to score than when being the main man for a team who opponents leave more space. Ndiaye could therefore also see a drop when moving to Utd from his fairly unspectacular output.

 

[Walters_19_MuFc]

Seems like quite selective framing on your part to refer to the 35 goals Cunha & Mbeumo scored between them last season, rather than the much less impressive 16 goals they've scored for our actual team so far this season.

Especially when the context of a lot of the discussion around their numbers in the summer was everyone with even a vague understanding of how stats in football work pointing out that they were clearly never going to repeat last season's output for us. That reality isn't going to magically reverse itself going forward.

It also feels a bit selective of you to ignore the context. This is their first season, and a large part of it was played under a manager who clearly wasn’t getting the best out of them. Does that guarantee they’ll suddenly start putting up huge numbers? Not necessarily. But even so, when you look at attacking threat in the Premier League, Cunha and Mbeumo are right up there among the most dangerous players.

As for Ndiaye, while his numbers might not stand out in the same way, he brings a different dimension to his game, as I’ve mentioned before, and that kind of quality can’t always be measured purely through stats.

 

[Walters_19_MuFc]

Including Bruno behind them they have 30 goals between them this season

Replace Ndiaye with Sesko and put Cunha on the left and now you have 33 goals without spending any money

Your suggestion sends us backwards whilst spending a bunch of money.

I don’t think suggesting Ndiaye automatically means he’s the answer but even if you’re not convinced by him specifically, it doesn’t change the bigger point: we clearly need another attacking option.

And for what it’s worth, Ndiaye is one of the most exciting attacking players in the Premier League right now. He offers something different - unpredictability, directness, and the ability to carry the ball in ways not many players can.

That said, I’m genuinely interested. If not Ndiaye, then who? What attacking player do you think we should be targeting?

 

[Welbeckham]

Yes, please. A lovely player to watch.

 

[Cee90]

What happened to the original tweet? Is this on or what?

 

[bosnian_red]

He's class, would be a really good signing to be part of the attacking winger group with Cunha and Amad, with Lacey deeper depth. Mbeumo and Sesko to rotate up top basically.

Then you just hope one of them can make the jump from inconsistent but really talented, to consistently productive. But he'd be a really good signing anyway and fit the balance.

 

[Donut]

Surprised City aren’t in for him, seems like a Pep player.

 

[Fracture90]

Definitely not square pegs in round holes. Cunha has played as a forward plenty of times, even before coming to the Premier League, and I’d actually say he looks more natural there than out wide for the reasons I mentioned before - linking play, receiving between the lines, and carrying the ball centrally. If we’re in the Champions League next season and genuinely competing across all competitions, we need at least two high-quality options in every attacking position. For argument’s sake, I’ll class Cunha as a forward, which leaves something like:

Cunha/Sesko
Ndiaye/Dorgu - Bruno/Mount - Mbeumo/Amad​

You could still make the case for Cunha starting from the left depending on the game, but either way, we’re still at least one more top attacking player short if we want proper depth and rotation at Champions League level.

I strongly disagree with the notion that Cunha looks more natural as a false 9 than on the wing. Can he do a job in that position? I suppose he can, but in EPL it's a whole different story. He's shown that he he great when he can face the defender head on, playing as a false 9 he would be relegated to hold up play, battling with physically stronger CB's, receiving the ball with his back facing the goal.

 

[Silas]

If we can get him for a good price, he’d be great as a versatile forward option to add to our forward line. Can’t imagine him demanding to start and as a bonus he’s at an age that wouldn’t discourage our youngsters (namely Gabriel) from believing there’s a pathway, if they reach expectations.

 

[Ekeke]

I don’t think suggesting Ndiaye automatically means he’s the answer but even if you’re not convinced by him specifically, it doesn’t change the bigger point: we clearly need another attacking option.

And for what it’s worth, Ndiaye is one of the most exciting attacking players in the Premier League right now. He offers something different - unpredictability, directness, and the ability to carry the ball in ways not many players can.

That said, I’m genuinely interested. If not Ndiaye, then who? What attacking player do you think we should be targeting?

I think you could say the same about Amad. He's exciting but he isnt producing

Ndiaye is producing more than him just not at the level you'd expect from a player who will join a top club

When I watch Arsenal they arent exciting at all. Well, a couple of games where a few of their players scored 2 goals. When Rice scored 2, or Eze scored 2. But in general with their set piece reliance not very impressive, not very exciting. But they're top of the table. Effective trumps exciting. And as I said in Amad and Cunha we have players who are exciting. Sesko late winners off the bench is pretty exciting too although it means we have a tough match instead of starting him, scoring by half time and then getting an early goal in the 2nd half and being able to rest our players and give the other players a chance to show what they can do as well.

I think we have enough excitement, but we're limited in effectiveness. We're ineffective when Sesko isnt on and we play with Cunha up front (again, 1 goal in 9), Mbeumo is ineffective when he doesnt score as he doesnt take on his man and have success often enough or put in good balls like he was able to at Brentford. Amad has been exciting but ineffective with very questionable decision making and low end product.

My opinion is Sesko has our best goals to minutes ratio and we should look for a winger who wants to play like a winger and supply a forward

But I dont think a winger should be a priority for us. It should be way down the list because between Amad and Mbeumo on the right and Cunha or Dorgu on the left it should be okay. I dont think we can or should keep spending on attackers when we already spent so much on it last season. Giving the same players another season to prove they can or cant play on the wings is likely to have a better outcome than this season with all except Dorgu we know they are capable of more than they've done.

Rashford actually has the most crosses that are assists with 5, but 3 were corners. It doesnt seem like he has a future here but it is interesting that this season he's doing what would benefit our striker. Olise and Kang-in I'd take if available. Olise has 4 assists from crosses, 2 from corners, Kang-in 3 from crosses 1 from corners. Rodrygo has 3 from crosses 1 from a corner and has barely played at Madrid. Minteh has 3 assists from crosses all from open play. Nusa has 2 and with all the Diomande hype perhaps he's available for a more reasonable fee and hes only 20. Some of these players havent played a lot, or dont have a lot of end product themselves this season but some of them are in their early 20s compared to Ndiaye at 26, also Ndiaye has 0 assists from crosses in 2 seasons in the premier league. He actually had 2 at Marseille before he came. But in the premier league it doesnt happen.

My honest opinion is if Ndiaye has 10 goals and assists at the end of the season (1 more than now, currently at 9) I could see his 'big move' being to Villa or Spurs.

 

[Lash]

I like him, but he's certainly not someone I'd spend a lot of money on. I think you could get someone more exciting and bigger potential for less or the same price. It's not like Mbuemo or Cunha, where they where they were consistently producing for their team.

 

[cpresc]

I think Ndiaye looks quality but we definitely need 2 midfielders and a left back before thinking about attack. Shaw just isn't up to it game upon game and we'll be playing a lot more next season.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

What is football about?

Who scores the most goals

Who are the players most likely to set up and score goals?

Attackers

What is he?

An attacker

Your team struggles to score goals. Think about why that might be.

Having a relegation level attack is a good reason. You can lay it on the plate for them all day and they'd still score 1 in 8

 

[Bondi77]

What position would Cunha play if we brought this guy in and Dorgu was our LB?

 

[Cassidy]

What position would Cunha play if we brought this guy in and Dorgu was our LB?

We would have a good squad, not be fecked if one got injured. Many games next season with UCL

 

[Bondi77]

We would have a good squad, not be fecked if one got injured. Many games next season with UCL

True.

 

[giggs-beckham]

What position would Cunha play if we brought this guy in and Dorgu was our LB?

Would Dorgu not be wasted at lb? He was on fire higher up before injury

 

[DJ_21]

Don’t get the links to people like this. Surely it makes more sense developing Lacey. He looks talented and by signing more wingers we’re cutting off his pathway to the first team

 

[VP89]

Don’t get the links to people like this. Surely it makes more sense developing Lacey. He looks talented and by signing more wingers we’re cutting off his pathway to the first team

We need a winger who can play an important role in the season. Lacey is a bit of a punt for that, and Ndaiye is a terrific player.

 

[tomaldinho1]

I think it is interesting to note that both Ndiaye and Garner gets really highly rated by Gradient.

Gradients system is quite different from conventional stats. Most football data tells you what happened. Like passes completed, shots taken, tackles won. Gradient tells you how well it was executed, and whether it was hard or easy to do.

Every action in a match is graded on a -2 to +2 scale by trained analysts, multiple graders per game, working independently. Those raw grades are then adjusted against 135+ contextual variables (defensive pressure, body position, difficulty) and converted to a 0–100 percentile ranking across 25 skill categories. That’s over 2,000 grades per match.

Why it matters: a simple completed pass to an unmarked teammate and a line-breaking ball under pressure both register as “1 completed pass” in traditional data. Gradient separates the two. This is the difference between measuring output and measuring quality of execution which is what actually predicts whether a player can step up to a higher level.

The system inherits a decade of methodology from PFF, whose grades are used by every NFL team. In football, it’s now trusted by Premier League clubs and integrated into platforms like TransferRoom.

I’m not saying Gradient is perfect, but it is a good bridge between tradional stats and the eye test.

interesting, have the masses found their new xG?

it is telling the top 3 have been heavily involved in set pieces this season as well.