I'm off to the Milk Cup tomorrow

cyberman

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I'd love any advice on who to look out for? Or if its even a strong squad?
 

arnie_ni

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U23s are playing ballymena tomorrow night. My mate plays up top for them and is a massive united fan. Be cool if there is some good talent playing against him
 

jb8521

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Forson probably the highest rated, Murray & Mather been at England camp so fairly highly rated. Apart from them I've liked the look of Fredrickson, Mainoo, Kavanagh, Norkett & Popov when I've seen them. I've heard Oyedele is good but haven't seen much of him.
 

Bwuk

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Forson probably the highest rated, Murray & Mather been at England camp so fairly highly rated. Apart from them I've liked the look of Fredrickson, Mainoo, Kavanagh, Norkett & Popov when I've seen them. I've heard Oyedele is good but haven't seen much of him.
Follow you on Twitter - quick question sorry if it’s off topic.

How do you know so much about the younger age groups? Do you attend under age games, or are you involved at all?
 

jb8521

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Follow you on Twitter - quick question sorry if it’s off topic.

How do you know so much about the younger age groups? Do you attend under age games, or are you involved at all?
No I'm not involved at all. Yeah I go to as many games as I can get to & do some scouting for an agency
 

cyberman

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Lost 2-0 to Charlton. Seems as if the inability to defend corners goes down the age groups.
Number 6 had a great first half but the whole second half just fell to nothing apart from Charlton's goal.
 

Bigsid

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Sorry but this 2004 group is poor. Bottom of group and as someone said last week Burnley hammered them. Being beaten by Charlton and drawing with County Tyrone is poor for a club of our standing. Least 23s are decent.
 

mat85

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No I'm not involved at all. Yeah I go to as many games as I can get to & do some scouting for an agency
What do you think of the squad at the milk cup in general compared to previous ones?
 

Redhalle

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You have to take into account that United don't have many U16 born in 2004.
Shoretire and Kilner (injured) didn't travel so only Lawton, Nkwonto & Morson are U16, the rest of the squad are U15.
 

Bigsid

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Point taken but would expect an u15 side to win at least a game in what isn't a top drawer tournament looking at teams in it.
 

Beaucoup

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You have to take into account that United don't have many U16 born in 2004.
Shoretire and Kilner (injured) didn't travel so only Lawton, Nkwonto & Morson are U16, the rest of the squad are U15.
You only have to take this into account in relation to physicality, watching the matches there didn't seem to be much in it between the teams they played, therefore it's irrelevant. We have some good players in that age group, what we don't have is any structure in terms of formation/patterns of play, it's bizarrely not taught in our academy at this age. Watch the matches it's plain to see, everyone running around like headless chickens, not sticking to positions, hoofing long balls, we are good at making good players look bad.
 

Handré1990

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You only have to take this into account in relation to physicality, watching the matches there didn't seem to be much in it between the teams they played, therefore it's irrelevant. We have some good players in that age group, what we don't have is any structure in terms of formation/patterns of play, it's bizarrely not taught in our academy at this age. Watch the matches it's plain to see, everyone running around like headless chickens, not sticking to positions, hoofing long balls, we are good at making good players look bad.
Surely this can’t be true? We practised defensive structure and offensive patterns from we were about 14 years old. I’d assume ManUtd youth teams do this as well?
 

JJ12

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Surely this can’t be true? We practised defensive structure and offensive patterns from we were about 14 years old. I’d assume ManUtd youth teams do this as well?
Yeah I can't see that being true. Surely fecking not.
 

Beaucoup

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Surely this can’t be true? We practised defensive structure and offensive patterns from we were about 14 years old. I’d assume ManUtd youth teams do this as well?
Nope, they may touch on the odd thing, but it's not coached in any detail.
 

jb8521

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What do you think of the squad at the milk cup in general compared to previous ones?
I was only at the first 2 games but thought there were some very good players on show for United but some obvious weaknesses in the squad mainly in terms of defending basic long balls & high balls into the box & in terms of making chances for the striker. We had a tendency to work the ball from back to front very well but then when we got around the box players were looking to take on 25 yard shots rather than looking for options. Strangely enough I'd say it's actually a better set of players than the last 2 year's squads even though both did better than this year.
 
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jb8521

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If you watched the first 2 matches there was a fairly obvious gap in quality between United & Tyrone & Strikers but it didn't show on the scoreboard. Strikers scored twice from goalkeeping errors on long range shots whereas United hit the post twice, the keeper made 3 great saves & the ball was cleared off the line twice along with a few more misses where players should have scored. Against Tyrone Norkett hit the bar from a yard out, Forson could have scored twice after good runs & Popov missed 2 great chances along with a few decent efforts from Mather while Tyrone just hit long balls & had 2 shots from 30 yards go wide & over & were awarded a very dodgy looking penalty because the crowd shouted for it so there was a massive gap in terms of quality & approach to playing the game but fair play to Strikers & Tyrone as they fought well for the results. In terms of the tactical stuff it's true that the club don't do much work on tactics before under 18 level because they want players to learn to understand the game themselves & learn by doing before they drill them with adults ideas of how a certain position should be played. Filling players with tactical information & set ways of doing things too early will obviously help in terms of results but it also generally teaches them to only focus on their strengths while ignoring their weaknesses & makes them think about the game whatever way their coach does rather than learning about the game themselves & can lead to a very vanilla set of robotic players who do a lot of things well but don't know how to change things up if it's not working. It doesn't teach them to come up with their own solutions to in game problems & express themselves which should be part of players development. If you look at the young players in or around the first team our approach seems to be working since most of them look to have a better understanding of the game & ability to fit into different tactical roles & systems than a lot of the older players brought in from outside.
 

P-Nut

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@jb8521 that makes a lot of sense for attacking players (we want them to be able to pull something out on the fly) but surely working defensive patterns and stuff which as you say, can make you more robotic, is a good thing in a defender?

A situation arises, and they know exactly where they should be positioned etc.
 

TwoSheds

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@jb8521 that makes a lot of sense for attacking players (we want them to be able to pull something out on the fly) but surely working defensive patterns and stuff which as you say, can make you more robotic, is a good thing in a defender?

A situation arises, and they know exactly where they should be positioned etc.
If you want your defenders to be good on the ball and feel confident stepping out into midfield or covering out wide or whatever then not necessarily...and in terms of defending set pieces etc well there's no guarantees a big powerful player at youth level will remain so as an adult, bit of trial and error for any player is important. You forget also that they've likely had coaching before they join United, get coached by parents, brothers etc, and also even at school they have PE lessons, no point labouring over the tactics all day and making it boring. Obviously if they're getting smashed every game then it's no fun either so they'll get a few tips and tricks, but if they're good and have a head on them you're really better off practising specific skills, shots, passes, tackles etc and teaching detailed tactical play later.
 

jb8521

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@jb8521 that makes a lot of sense for attacking players (we want them to be able to pull something out on the fly) but surely working defensive patterns and stuff which as you say, can make you more robotic, is a good thing in a defender?

A situation arises, and they know exactly where they should be positioned etc.
They do work on stuff it's not as if they just put them on the pitch & hope but it's not the constant barrage of information & second by second instructions being shouted at them that you hear from some other coaches it's more about winning their personal battles & learning from mistakes
 

P-Nut

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They do work on stuff it's not as if they just put them on the pitch & hope but it's not the constant barrage of information & second by second instructions being shouted at them that you hear from some other coaches it's more about winning their personal battles & learning from mistakes
Ah yeah that makes more sense, I was thinking we don't work on defensive shape and covering defenders at all and just let em play through it.
 

Alienhead77

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I actually played in the milk cup twice and have the programme's from them still. We are talking very early 90's here mind. I don't think I'm allowed to put pics on? Mods can let me know maybe . Will have pull them out the loft like first ! Don't know if anyone would be interested?
 
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TwoSheds

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I actually played in the milk cup twice and have the programme's from them still. We are talking very early 90's here mind. I don't think I'm allowed to put pics on? Mods can let me know maybe . Will have pull them out the loft like first ! Don't know if anyone would be interested?
Do it.