Discussion in 'Current Events' started by Sky1981, Apr 23, 2018.
Are they bad? Or good?
What are your thoughts?
Don't you mean "Immigration"? Immigrants are simply individual people, some will be good people, some not so good.
Immigration needs to be done in a controlled, managed and sustainable way. Immigration is generally a positive thing and in my local area it has had both positive and negative impacts.
Locally for me;
Immigration has supported new businesses opening up, provided ample labour for existing businesses, bought down the cost of building work, getting cars washed, buying groceries, introducted new cultures into the area.
Immigration has also reduced the availability of housing, driven up house prices, increased crime (particularly anti social behaviour), meant longer waits for medical treatment, increased classroom sizes (as well as put other strains on schools).
Overall i am pro immigration, even though i am impacted by all the negative things i've listed on that. I don't blame people for taking an oppotunity to better their lives - I blame several of our governments for not properly preparing for and managing levels of immigration.
Immigration is an inescapable and historical trait of humanity. We are physiologically adapted to travel great distances in source of resources and abundant habitat, from the great homo-sapien migration out of Africa to our current endeavours in researching and facilitating migration off-planet.
Immigration / immigrants, migration / migrants = survival of species = all good.
Depends on the immigrant innit.
Seriously though, I think immigration is a logical thing. We, as a species have always looked for better pastures when times are tough. You can't blame people moving to western Europe from a third world country. Of course some will take advantage and have bad intentions, but that has very little to do with the fact that they're immigrants. Everyone should get a chance at a respectable life under normal conditions. Not just people who were lucky enough to be born in the first world. Right wingers saying the borders must be closed and all immigration should cease are a bunch of selfish cowardly pricks in my book.
Long story short, I'm fine with immigrants as a concept. Some of 'em are cnut sure, but so are some non immigrants.
Immigration has been good historically for the UK. I don't believe the Conservative Government or even a Labour one could manage immigration better than I could run a piss up in a brewery.
International Aid is being mis-managed at the point of delivery therefore some monies could be better spent on housing and education for immigrant families and descendants of immigrant families.
As long as there is inequality in the world people in poorer nations are going to want to improve their opportunities. Borders won't stop them completely and as has been shown the current UK Immigration policies are both unfair and cruel.
It's grand. Not sure I would've enjoyed growing up in India or Uganda where my grandparents and parents were respectively born. So thanks to immigration I've lived a really comfortable life so far.
ah, the nasty forrins from abroad - we don't like them do we?
or rather, too many of us don't seem to like them & it's always THEIR fault because they are 'orrible & all do nasty stuff - or we've heard that is what they like anyway, even if we've had no experience of any of that
some people argue that they should all piss off because some people are complete bell-ends, some other people try to use all this for political & personal gain or political justification for being bell-ends in a whole variety of ways that ought to be unconnected but end up being the same, just inclusive of some white people they don't like too - bizarrely getting help to do this from the people that they do not like
it's all a bit of a mess
or is not liking 'outsiders' just part of the human condition?
I also think we could do stuff to reduce immigration, but I think the effort has to be made to improve the conditions of people who live abroad, rather than making it harder to get in.
For example, imagine if the EU legislated that all produce sold in the EU had to be purchased at fairtrade prices? all fish/farming produce had to be from sustainable sources. All clothes or tech imported had to be proven to not be from slave labour/child labour. Kind of like the way the world is meant to be handling blood diamonds.
yes our supermarkets wouldn't be as rich anymore, but for hundreds of millions around the world, they'd have a share of wealth which would mean they wouldn't be forced to leave, or at least would have better conditions were they do live.
I watched a Simon Reeve documentary about the Indian ocean. It showed a bit about the Maldives and showed farmers catching fish using poles and lines. The farmers were complaining that commercial fishing trawlers drag nets 7 miles long, empty out the sea and chuck all the fish that isn't tuna back in (it's dead by then). Since then i've only bought sustainable tuna. I don't see why we don't legislate to ensure only sustainable tuna is sold in the UK.
No, because there are tons of counterexamples.
Exactly this. They were happy to reap the huge benefits of immigration, but completely failed to properly manage the additional workload it creates on local services. The Tories of course went even further and started slashing money for local services, meaning the downsides became even more pronouced.
Immigration is good as long as the person/ family can integrate with the local culture and are there to work, not just multiply and live off the state.
Borders don't exist
I don't believe in Borders but they do exist.
Yeah. Just gotta find a way to kick the latter out, without everyone making a fuss about it.
How many of these wasters are there?
The Blair government had a Migrant Impact Fund which helped allay some of the downsides @Zlatattack highlighted. It wasn't a great deal of money, even so, the Tories abolished it. I think this kind of managed support is essential. It's what governments are for imo , to manage problems.
There's no place for nuanced arguments on immigration in this debate!
I'd argue they're a social construct. Before society, there was just land, as a result of society we have now drawn barriers between different land masses.
There were natural borders before and still but yes, I agree.
I am an immigrant, am I good or bad?
I chose to live where I am living, why should anyone else decide where I can and cannot live?
In days of yore someone may have moved from one village to the next and would be considered an outsider.
You would hope that humanity has evolved but I fear there is a long way to go.
If one is not a burden to the place where they have moved to why should anyone object, would they object because the person has a different skin colour, speaks a different language, has a different religion, comes from a different country or even a different region and has a different accent.
What about the native person who is a burden to the country they were born in, is a scrounger , a criminal, those who object to immigrants, why do they not object to the native people as well?
Well yeah. I despise borders personally, an awful social construct that has led to so much misery.
Thank feck I won the birth lottery with an EU passport, I can move anywhere in Europe no problem, I have had possibilities to do working holidays in some cracking countries.
It's a shame all people don't have the same luck, because some people killed some other people hundreds, or thousands of year ago and drew some imaginary lines. if you're born within the wrong lines, you're pretty fecked from the get go.
Does this rule apply to everybody, or just immigrants?
And if the person came to this country, worked and paid their taxes, why would they be obliged to integrate with local culture as well? Brits don't tend to do that when they rock up to Alicante with their life savings.
Immigrants or invaders? First they come over peacefully, full of promises. A lot of which they deliver on to be fair. Offering skills such as medical, building, etc. Woo you with foreign exotic foods, trinkets and dreams. Settle in, and effectively take over, civic offices in key cities. Over time the racial and religious dominance is overwhelming yet any resistance is met with disdain and ultimately defeat. I could go on about the British Raj or the 'pioneers' of America but it was different time innit.
Define integrate with the local culture?
I know someone who makes comments like that or did quite often. He's married to a Canadian woman who has never worked over here and bought over here, they had a child sharpish while always living in council housing. Kind of bemusing.
Good and bad. And all sorts in between.
Humans for you.
Fundamental to the wellbeing of the country.
They are human, of course some are good some are bad. Like all humans including ourselves the British nationals which some believe makes them superior to other.
It's funny most of the criticism I see immigrants getting is unwarranted. The first most common I see is they claim benefits and don't work. Alot of immigrants do not have access to public funds, even the EEA nationals that do, unless they have a perm residence card they need to prove they are in effective and genuine employment before they are eligible for benefits. Don't get me wrong some are claiming benefits, but they clearly meet the criteria and are eligible to do so. Like many British nationals.
The second point I commonly hear is "they'e stealing all of ours jobs". Which is laughable, not even going to expand on this point.
The third is how they carry themselves in society, how they integrate etc. This brings me back to my original point, they are humans, some bad some good.
Overall I am definitely pro immigration. I do agree that there has to be limitations on the numbers, however they are vitally important to the operations of our country.
Necessary and good for a vast majority of countries.
Some of its good, some of it is pointless, some of it is really bad.
I think anyone migrating to a new country for economic reasons should prove that they bring some value to the country as a whole or they have a certain skill that elevates the society they are moving into.
The issue of refugees is a bit different but I think the organizations like the UN that get a lot of funding to deal with these issues should carry their weight and work to establish and maintain safe zones for people to seek shelter in times of war. Large scale immigration and asylum is not the answer to this issue.
Immigrants are however easy scapegoats for the fear mongers when speculative investments go bad and the economy sinks as a result of bankers playing fast and loose.
What superior right should I have to live here in the west? I was simply born here by luck.
Imagine what politics would be able to do if there were no barriers to immigration...
The funny thing about this subject is that when you take the UK as an example and look at two of their bigger symbols, Curry and Tea, you have to wonder how some people have the audacity to question immigration and what it brought to the culture/economy of their country. And I'm talking about foreigners immigrating to the UK as much as British immigrating and bringing back their new knowledge and culture.
Speak the language, follow the rules, fit in with the local community. Just like I did when I swapped countries. Went to work in an indigenous community, grew to know and respect their culture, made loads of Aussie mates.
I'm all in for immigration. The place you were dropped onto by some vagina shouldn't be the decider where you live and how you live.
ps. also Colombian and Venezuelan girls
Thread is about immigrants, start a thread about other social issues if you so wish.
Speaking from experience, I moved and fully supported myself and my family by getting off my arse and taking whatever jobs I could, I went out of my way to make friends within my local community, none of whom were from my birth nation. I've no experience of living self funded in Alicante. I'd not personally advocate doing so.
@Red_toad - I don't suppose you are going to address my question? Be nice to get some dimensions to the problems you brought up.
Separate names with a comma.