We actually don't. We are very multicultural. Hence why both those things are so popular funnily enough.
The actual problem is stereotyping and hate mongering.
Immigrants
- Thread starter Sky1981
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
The actual problem is stereotyping and hate mongering.
I'm not sure if it's possible to have accurate figures but most immigrants are totally integrated and working.
Yes. Lived up North in western Aus. Great experience.
They, is the people that do it and there are people doing it in the UK, like in every other country. And the fact that you are(The Uk) quite obviously multicultural is my point.
Maybe we can get some stats from @Red_toad on how many are on Benefits perhaps?
On that particular point, immigration rules are almost always designed to prevent that. Even though the UK are apparently more generous than other countries.
The whole current immigration debate is basically 'piss off you black/brown/yellow cnuts. Sure, we colonized, enslaved and took all of your resources generations ago, but you have no right to share in that wealth now, know your place."
However historically it has always happened, from the moment a thousand of our ancestors left Africa to ancient civilisations clashing over land and wealths. Naturally there will always be people looking for a better pastures and people holding on to those pastures. We've just somewhat moved past killing each other en masse for it, baby steps.
However historically it has always happened, from the moment a thousand of our ancestors left Africa to ancient civilisations clashing over land and wealths. Naturally there will always be people looking for a better pastures and people holding on to those pastures. We've just somewhat moved past killing each other en masse for it, baby steps.
Interesting, so what would be the repercussions if you didn't fall in line as it were. So for instance, my mum only speaks English if she has to, but in public will speak our native tongue, is that acceptable?
What should happen if you openly chose not to speak the language (say you are incapable of learning to a high proficiency) or you just don't fit in with the community.
Also what about the locals who don't follow the rules or fit in with the community - surely that's worse?
Do they have any any repercussions?
Sorry I don't have the statistics. As an immigrant, I can state how I acted and how I believe others should behave. I would never advocate moving to an alien environment and living in a kind of ghetto environment, by only mixing with people from your birth nation and not making any attempts to learn the language.
But either by suggestion or expertise you stated that they shouldn't just 'multiply' and live off the state but what you are now saying is you have no idea of the sort of dimensions there are of immigrants doing either, anywhere?
Apart from whether we'd see any of your requirements as an issue occurring you have no idea that it even is or to what extent.
Cool. I worked in Australia too and had a few interactions with Aborigines as part of my job. Really fascinating people.
The whole immigration discussion is always complicated in countries like the US/Australia, where the people fussing about immigrants taking over are the product of generations of immigrants themselves.
Honestly the only problem is that the behavior that you are advocating for, is the norm, it's how the vast majority of immigrants behave but you added a little something that gave the impression that your behavior was exceptional. Maybe it was just a misunderstanding.
That's quite broad though, isn't it? "They" as in why do "they" question something. You are posting on a forum that covers many countries and many cultures, so that in mind "they" could mean anything right? As in an entire country?
We are on the same page here. I'm just pointing out how words matter. Maybe to you and I we can tell the difference, but to the general public? Well...
Stop leading
Not sure what you mean by a social construct, but I suspect that willingness to fight over access to land goes way back into human pre-history. Certainly once people had formed tribes they would fight for land, produce, and slaves, and de facto borders would be there between them, at the points a tribe could no longer defend. It's not hard to imagine that even when people lived only as family groups then a stronger family would defend it's access to a food source, and they would attack and drive off a weaker family if it came too close. That 'too close' would effectively be a border.
Always reminds me of a meme I saw years ago posted in reply to some numpty mouthing off about immigrants; "oh you don't like immigrants? Cool, which tribe are you from?".
So I need to find stats on immigrants who don't work to have an opinion? I live in a country that's full of immigrants, millions of them. Pretty obvious a percentage of them don't work and have kids as a means of income. More than enough of the natives do, I don't advocate that as a lifestyle choice for anyone.
What about people born in that country that do the exact same thing though, is that ok? From your comments you'd think it's only immigrants who are guilty of such actions.
No, you plainly do not have to have any actual knowledge to hold an opinion, that much is obvious and you are not the only one to express one similar.
I'd merely hoped that you could back it up with actual facts on the size of the issue but it isn't compulsory.
I can't help itStop leading
A social construct is essentially 'something' that is constructed through culture or society, so that falls in with your example also.
Essentially borders are something that we as humans have created through thousands of years of culture, behaviours & actions - whether through law, or war, or whatever.
It goes back to the neolithic period and the dawn of agriculture. Once land had a tangible value humans started going to war over it.
I understand and agree, I should have mentioned that "they" was the people that brings up the question in the OP.
Yes the irony of Aussies with immigrant parents/ grandparents having a rant about immigrants
. And then there's the whole indigenous issue going on here. I've no idea what directions it's all going to go in. Politicians aren't dealing with it very well.Depends on the case subject.
For some countries (Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria and especially Somalia) we have a participation in work of less than 50%, for the females fecking below 30%.
If you are illiterate in your own country, what is the chance you'll come to Norway, learn the language, get an education, get a job and ultimately do what this is all about - pay taxes?
There is only so many freeloaders a welfare state like Norway can sustain, as written in a report called the Gjørv report, a report the Norwegian govt. had done.
So if you are educated and can participate sure. If you've grown up behind a plow in Somalia or have spent your life herding goats in Afghanistan, meh, not worth it.
For some countries (Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria and especially Somalia) we have a participation in work of less than 50%, for the females fecking below 30%.
If you are illiterate in your own country, what is the chance you'll come to Norway, learn the language, get an education, get a job and ultimately do what this is all about - pay taxes?
There is only so many freeloaders a welfare state like Norway can sustain, as written in a report called the Gjørv report, a report the Norwegian govt. had done.
So if you are educated and can participate sure. If you've grown up behind a plow in Somalia or have spent your life herding goats in Afghanistan, meh, not worth it.
Most large predators have clearly demarcated territories. So it's more than just a human construct.
So you completely missed my comments on the natives? Ok cool, not going where you're trying to lead...
Social constructs aren't limited to humans.
Well yes, I'm not sure what your point was then.
Just because it exists, doesn't mean that being born in country x should limit you from living in country y if you have the means to emigrate.
We're no longer tribes of people fighting over hunted food.
That's my point my friend.
If you are going to be right, then at least do it in the right way. Because anything and everything can and will be used against you.
No you cant!I can't help it
Which is why you need to learn to disengage that prejudice you naturally have and work with the actual comment. Who knows, listening to people might actually move the world forward. It might also be a waste of time, but them's the breaks. Just a thought
Yeah mate as an immigrant, I have no actual knowledge on immigration
Quick google on unemployment stats after living here 5 to 9 years. European 1.9%, East Asian 3.6% Middle Eastern 17.5%. Hope that appeases your agenda.
How do you regulate access to natural resources in a society without borders? The one with the biggest gun gets it?
How do you regulate social welfare in a specific country, since everyone would naturally gravitate towards the country (would even countries exist?) with the best welfare systems?
How do you regulate social welfare in a specific country, since everyone would naturally gravitate towards the country (would even countries exist?) with the best welfare systems?
Nah, I like to get straight to the point - foreplay is only for sex.That's my point my friend.
If you are going to be right, then at least do it in the right way. Because anything and everything can and will be used against you.
No you cant!
Which is why you need to learn to disengage that prejudice you naturally have and work with the actual comment. Who knows, listening to people might actually move the world forward. It might also be a waste of time, but them's the breaks. Just a thought
I'm not the one with an agenda my friend. I take issue with some of your terminology but it's none of my business that you get a right to express your opinions in the way that you do.Yeah mate as an immigrant, I have no actual knowledge on immigration
Quick google on unemployment stats after living here 5 to 9 years. European 1.9%, East Asian 3.6% Middle Eastern 17.5%. Hope that appeases your agenda.
The answer is in the definition of a nation-state or what some just call a country. You need a territory, population and sovereignty, if you don't have a territory you don't have what you call a country.
Why's it an issue you highlight specifically as a r'equirement' for immigrants then?
Thanks for explaining. I would say at the moment that's exactly what we are.
Hopefully one day we shall learn not to fight, but there still seems to be plenty of it going on, between ethnic groups and religions for example, and that's at a time of relative plenty. We never know what's round the corner, water shortage, plant disease, more religious nonsense, the unknown in general.
Where did you emigrate from and what is your native language?
Borders exist to separate others from others, meanwhile jobs, money and the right people find few restrictions. We care more about money then we do about people, if something has the same value everywhere then we wouldn't have the transfer of jobs and cheap goods supplied by cheap and repressed workers. The issue that those who would rather we kept borders is that they don't feel that they want to share resources with those others. Borders and Immigration in any case has only been such an issue in the last few hundred years, whole countries were empty and governments were desperate to invite people to make such countries before other people who had the same idea beat them to it. Borders only serve multi-nationals who will use them to prosper at the same time as their owners and investors. Meanwhile there are some borders in the world that exist solely to keep people in. If you really think about it borders aren't such a great thing.
And if they don't know where the point is?
If we can scrap borders then armed forces become redundant as well don't they? Those of us who live in the major western european nations have had 70 years of relative peace, surely that's long enough to prove it will last forever?