Immigrants

[JPRouve]

You know what job he does?

I have no idea.

 

[oates]

It worked for a while because those countries were similar in economic advancement. If you open all borders then a mass migration will occur from the poorest countries in the world to the richest. This is completely unsustainable in any wealthy and democratic country.

As @Raoul said, you would need some sort of new world order and global state with relative economic equity existing between all composite parts of that state.

I don't think I've said or imagined that it won't take time but meanwhile I don't believe that Foreign Aid is particularly helping but that's another topic. Meanwhile all Western Nations should take in oppressed people and have as generous as we can immigrant quota. Of course there are issues. I just believe that one day we can do without borders whenever we can do that.

 

[711]

It worked for a while because those countries were similar in economic advancement. If you open all borders then a mass migration will occur from the poorest countries in the world to the richest. This is completely unsustainable in any wealthy and democratic country.

As @Raoul said, you would need some sort of new world order and global state with relative economic equity existing between all composite parts of that state.

And also a universal belief in democracy. For the first part of my life it seemed self-evident that countries and peoples would choose democracy if given a choice, but it's become apparent that many look first to their religious sect or their ethnic group, or just think strong autocratic leadership is more effective.

 

[Paul the Wolf]

I don't necessarily go along with the line of thinking that excessive legal immigration puts an excessive strain on services, schools, hospitals, doctors , housing etc.
That is entirely down to the government, local authorities etc. If immigrants are legally in the country and pay taxes etc why aren't there more schools, more doctors , more housing etc.

If the population of the UK was half what it is and made entirely of white British people there would be no difference because the government revenues from those people would also be half. Yet another example of defection of blame.
If the population was double what it is, it's the same, revenues would be double. And before anyone says it the government are boasting how low the unemployment level is compared to most of Europe.

Of course if 5 million immigrants suddenly descended upon the UK in one go, you could sympathise.

I wonder if all the people from the north of England decided to up sticks and 'immigrate' into London to enjoy the benefits of the bountiful city were told that they were not welcome and told to go back from whence they came.

 

[redmeister]

I don't necessarily go along with the line of thinking that excessive legal immigration puts an excessive strain on services, schools, hospitals, doctors , housing etc.
That is entirely down to the government, local authorities etc. If immigrants are legally in the country and pay taxes etc why aren't there more schools, more doctors , more housing etc.

If the population of the UK was half what it is and made entirely of white British people there would be no difference because the government revenues from those people would also be half. Yet another example of defection of blame.
If the population was double what it is, it's the same, revenues would be double. And before anyone says it the government are boasting how low the unemployment level is compared to most of Europe.

Of course if 5 million immigrants suddenly descended upon the UK in one go, you could sympathise.

I wonder if all the people from the north of England decided to up sticks and 'immigrate' into London to enjoy the benefits of the bountiful city were told that they were not welcome and told to go back from whence they came.

Based on what we've seen from immigration since the war, that isn't likely to be true. The rich and upper middle class pay most of the income tax in the country. Because we talk about tax in terms of a progressive scale and in percentages, people often think they poor carry the tax burden as a higher percentage of the income goes to tax over all. But in real terms (ie what pays for schools etc) the rich pay way more. Therefore, given immigrants typically earn less, then we wouldn't see a doubling of income tax.

 

[Cheesy]

Based on what we've seen from immigration since the war, that isn't likely to be true. The rich and upper middle class pay most of the income tax in the country. Because we talk about tax in terms of a progressive scale and in percentages, people often think they poor carry the tax burden as a higher percentage of the income goes to tax over all. But in real terms (ie what pays for schools etc) the rich pay way more. Therefore, given immigrants typically earn less, then we wouldn't see a doubling of income tax.

They're meant to, but plenty of big companies find ways to dodge their taxes and comparatively end up paying feck all.

 

[redmeister]

They're meant to, but plenty of big companies find ways to dodge their taxes and comparatively end up paying feck all.

No but regardless of that, the majority of income tax in this country is paid by people in the top 2 tax brackets. I think something like 25% of all income tax in paid by the richest 1%.

 

[Paul the Wolf]

Based on what we've seen from immigration since the war, that isn't likely to be true. The rich and upper middle class pay most of the income tax in the country. Because we talk about tax in terms of a progressive scale and in percentages, people often think they poor carry the tax burden as a higher percentage of the income goes to tax over all. But in real terms (ie what pays for schools etc) the rich pay way more. Therefore, given immigrants typically earn less, then we wouldn't see a doubling of income tax.

Firstly, have you figures that prove that the rich and upper middle class pay the most tax and secondly, do you have proof that immigrants typically earn less.
There are plenty of non-immigrants who don't earn money and who don't want to earn money.
Now we see that immigrants won't be let in the UK unless they earn a salary that is higher than the average salary in the UK.

Whatever the population of the country whether it's made up of immigrants or not, the same problems will exist. It's just that some people differentiate and try to blame those problems on immigrants.

 

[711]

No but regardless of that, the majority of income tax in this country is paid by people in the top 2 tax brackets. I think something like 25% of all income tax in paid by the richest 1%.

I suspect a lot of the richest 1% are first or second generation immigrants. I seem to remember immigrants figure hugely in the number of new billionaires and people moving up the 'rich list'. Fecked if I'm going to look it up though.

 

[Cheesy]

No but regardless of that, the majority of income tax in this country is paid by people in the top 2 tax brackets. I think something like 25% of all income tax in paid by the richest 1%.

Yes, although they have around a similar amount of the UK's wealth so it's not particularly unfair or disparate.

 

[Cheesy]

I suspect a lot of the richest 1% are first or second generation immigrants. I seem to remember immigrants figure hugely in the number of new billionaires and people moving up the 'rich list'. Fecked if I'm going to look it up though.

I'd imagine you'd get a lot of big business types perhaps moving abroad to countries like Britain who may be more generous than their own home nations etc when it comes to taxes/laws etc. Certainly wealth helps increase social mobility and in that respect you'll get plenty of people who start out in one country and then move because moving somewhere else is ultimately a lot easier when you've got a feck-ton of money.

 

[redmeister]

Firstly, have you figures that prove that the rich and upper middle class pay the most tax and secondly, do you have proof that immigrants typically earn less.
There are plenty of non-immigrants who don't earn money and who don't want to earn money.
Now we see that immigrants won't be let in the UK unless they earn a salary that is higher than the average salary in the UK.

Whatever the population of the country whether it's made up of immigrants or not, the same problems will exist. It's just that some people differentiate and try to blame those problems on immigrants.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39641222

https://www.ethnicity-facts-figures...nefits/pay-and-income/household-income/latest

I don't think people blame immigrants per se. It's just that dialogue is shut down through the bullying tactics of identity politics. Hence many people genuinely believe that it's racism etc that is behind the concern with immigration, when it's more to do with economics in my opinion.

 

[Redlambs]

Surely somebody would formulate their points before forming an opinion?
I dunno, I like to weigh up both sides before I choose my points.

That was a little joke based on something you said vil, surprised you missed it

 

[4bars]

I am coming from a country where we receive lots of immigrants. Local (from the same country) and foreigners. I immigrated to 6 different countries. I have been deported once. Mostly because I could do it, not because of need as I am a privilege westerner. Though the last country it was because I wanted to stay and make a living as I know I will be better off here and I like the place.

My opinion is that immigration is always good. You get from the people that comes, a initial enter of capital (no matter how small but they don't come with 0 money). immigration brings a different set of skills to add to the society, also jobs that nobody wants to do. Immigration brings diversity. How would be eating out in UK without all the diversity that all foreign cuisines brought form outside? and that to any big city with terrible of non existent food culture. Immigration brings up the birth rate as we like to feck but not to raise kids. More taxes collected, more consumerism in a consumerist society, etc...

Sure it brings some stresses, but not even half of what people mention:

- Illegal work. True, but shouldn't be blamed the company to hire illegally? I mean, no company gets punished when someone gets deported for working illegally
- stealing your jobs/Women (for the fun): If someone that does not speak the language, has no network of family/friends, does not know the city, has no local education, etc... Steals your job/woman, you are pretty pathetic and you don't deserve the job. If excuse of illegal job, see point above.
- Crime: They are not criminals because they are immigrants. They are because they are poor and lack opportunities
- Integration: True that some they hardly integrate, but as a local, do you ever make an effort? Immigrating is hard, and in my experience, being extrovert, learning the language where I go, etc... it still very hard to get in local circles. The same as when I am local, I don't have very good friend that is immigrant. Some immigrants goes in ghettos, but some we put them on it because discrimination or because we can get bother.

SOme of these claims, an others, are partially true, but when is true, it could be applied to locals and we say nothing. Immigration is not a problem of where someone is from, is a matter of status. We have a problem with Wojciech because he is a poor polish cook that is fecking grumpy and his good english but wih an accent sucks, but we don't have any problem with mohammed because he bought a porsche just 1 day after arrival even if he does not speak a word. Also we love natasha, she is poor but she is hot enough to be invited at any supper that we, poor misfits, will invite her as no local hot girl would touch us with a stick.

PS: Sorry for the name cliches

 

[711]

I'd imagine you'd get a lot of big business types perhaps moving abroad to countries like Britain who may be more generous than their own home nations etc when it comes to taxes/laws etc. Certainly wealth helps increase social mobility and in that respect you'll get plenty of people who start out in one country and then move because moving somewhere else is ultimately a lot easier when you've got a feck-ton of money.

Lots of oligarchs and the like no doubt, but I was thinking more of the self-made guys, a lot of Asian immigrants for example have a massive work ethic and make bloody good entrepreneurs and business builders.

 

[Paul the Wolf]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39641222

https://www.ethnicity-facts-figures...nefits/pay-and-income/household-income/latest

I don't think people blame immigrants per se. It's just that dialogue is shut down through the bullying tactics of identity politics. Hence many people genuinely believe that it's racism etc that is behind the concern with immigration, when it's more to do with economics in my opinion.

Thanks for those figures.
In the tax payers report it doesn't differentiate which background these higher tax payers are from and as some other posters have suggested there could well be a higher proportion of immigrants in that band than the proportion of the whole population.

As regards the household income the White British perform about average of the ethnicities and interestingly are below the white other which would include Europeans, some Americans, Aussies etc which quashes yet another of the myths of Brexit.

I believe it's the other way round, some people use an economic argument to disguise their true feelings regarding immigrants.

 

[Jippy]

I am coming from a country where we receive lots of immigrants. Local (from the same country) and foreigners. I immigrated to 6 different countries. I have been deported once. Mostly because I could do it, not because of need as I am a privilege westerner. Though the last country it was because I wanted to stay and make a living as I know I will be better off here and I like the place.

My opinion is that immigration is always good. You get from the people that comes, a initial enter of capital (no matter how small but they don't come with 0 money). immigration brings a different set of skills to add to the society, also jobs that nobody wants to do. Immigration brings diversity. How would be eating out in UK without all the diversity that all foreign cuisines brought form outside? and that to any big city with terrible of non existent food culture. Immigration brings up the birth rate as we like to feck but not to raise kids. More taxes collected, more consumerism in a consumerist society, etc...

Sure it brings some stresses, but not even half of what people mention:

- Illegal work. True, but shouldn't be blamed the company to hire illegally? I mean, no company gets punished when someone gets deported for working illegally
- stealing your jobs/Women (for the fun): If someone that does not speak the language, has no network of family/friends, does not know the city, has no local education, etc... Steals your job/woman, you are pretty pathetic and you don't deserve the job. If excuse of illegal job, see point above.
- Crime: They are not criminals because they are immigrants. They are because they are poor and lack opportunities
- Integration: True that some they hardly integrate, but as a local, do you ever make an effort? Immigrating is hard, and in my experience, being extrovert, learning the language where I go, etc... it still very hard to get in local circles. The same as when I am local, I don't have very good friend that is immigrant. Some immigrants goes in ghettos, but some we put them on it because discrimination or because we can get bother.

SOme of these claims, an others, are partially true, but when is true, it could be applied to locals and we say nothing. Immigration is not a problem of where someone is from, is a matter of status. We have a problem with Wojciech because he is a poor polish cook that is fecking grumpy and his good english but wih an accent sucks, but we don't have any problem with mohammed because he bought a porsche just 1 day after arrival even if he does not speak a word. Also we love natasha, she is poor but she is hot enough to be invited at any supper that we, poor misfits, will invite her as no local hot girl would touch us with a stick.

PS: Sorry for the name cliches

We may have gone on to perfect chicken in a basket if it wasn't for all that foreign muck knocking it off the menu.

 

[4bars]

We may have gone on to perfect chicken in a basket if it wasn't for all that foreign muck knocking it off the menu.

Everybody has his little bigot inside. Me too I got overboard true with the xenophobic cliches

 

[Jippy]

Everybody has his little bigot inside. Me too I got overboard true with the xenophobic cliches

My wife has her own bigotry about the English and white people in general tbh. I can't help but have a few preconceptions about Mauritians too.

 

[4bars]

My wife has her own bigotry about the English and white people in general tbh. I can't help but have a few preconceptions about Mauritians too.

We can't help it, it depends on what our society inculcated us and our own experiences too. I have my list too

But in the end of the day, is meeting the individual, and there, it doesn't matter where someone is from

 

[Jippy]

We can't help it, it depends on what our society inculcated us and our own experiences too. I have my list too

But in the end of the day, is meeting the individual, and there, it doesn't matter where someone is from

Tbh doing my masters at Durham on a ver international course, then moving to London and ultimately meeting a foreign wife opened my eyes. I was brought up in semi-rural East Yorkshire tbf.

 

[4bars]

Tbh doing my masters at Durham on a ver international course, then moving to London and ultimately meeting a foreign wife opened my eyes. I was brought up in semi-rural East Yorkshire tbf.

For me was as well traveling from my big town/small city. I never had a problem with immigration, though I had with spaniards as catalan independentist brainwashed, nothing extreme but misconceptions. Going on Erasmus made me change many things. I am still hardcore independentist, but the reasons and arguments are not spaniards misconceptions.

Get out of your bubble heeeeeeeeelps a lot

 

[Eboue]

without immigrants we wouldn't have good food options is a bad argument because then you could justify keeping out the irish. wait never mind keep going

 

[4bars]

without immigrants we wouldn't have good food options is a bad argument because then you could justify keeping out the irish. wait never mind keep going

Meh, irish and english for my are the same

 

[Eboue]

Meh, irish and english for my are the same

wow thats even more racist than my post, well done

 

[Jippy]

For me was as well traveling from my big town/small city. I never had a problem with immigration, though I had with spaniards as catalan independentist brainwashed, nothing extreme but misconceptions. Going on Erasmus made me change many things. I am still hardcore independentist, but the reasons and arguments are not spaniards misconceptions.

Get out of your bubble heeeeeeeeelps a lot

Defo. That's why I hate little Englanders and their belief we still rule the world. Dunno if you have that in Spain still?

without immigrants we wouldn't have good food options is a bad argument because then you could justify keeping out the irish. wait never mind keep going

We defo wouldn't have the Dallas Fried Chicken salmonella-fest on Kennington Lane.

 

[4bars]

wow thats even more racist than my post, well done

 

[4bars]

Defo. That's why I hate little Englanders and their belief we still rule the world. Dunno if you have that in Spain still?

.

Oh, definitely. What is happening in Spain vs Catalonia is because there is a reminiscence of the old empire + dictatorship (where the only valid culture was the castillian). And the spanish government and quite a few of their voters reacts with the same authoritarianism that treated the colonies with the constraints of the XXI century obvious behaviour. Small spaniards exists and they fascist like behaviour is an inheritance of the dictatorship that was never overthrown


At the same time in Catalonia it was a lot of bigotry with spanish immigrating (and take our jobs and women!!!!) and both situations retrofed along the years one side and the other of the regional border .In catalonia is mostly surpassed because most of the population nowadays is a mix of catalans and from spanish, it had been a debate to go through that, with the independentism movement we had a catarsis and we saw that we evolved as a society as something different. In little Spain they had no mixture so is difficult to change mentalities.

There is nothing like knowing your "enemy" to know that is exactly the same as you. That you can talk through everything. That we share most of our problems and we can learn from each other and we don't want the other anything wrong to happen and respect, lots of respect

 

[carvajal]

Oh, definitely. What is happening in Spain vs Catalonia is because there is a reminiscence of the old empire + dictatorship (where the only valid culture was the castillian). And the spanish government and quite a few of their voters reacts with the same authoritarianism that treated the colonies with the constraints of the XXI century obvious behaviour. Small spaniards exists and they fascist like behaviour is an inheritance of the dictatorship that was never overthrown


At the same time in Catalonia it was a lot of bigotry with spanish immigrating (and take our jobs and women!!!!) and both situations retrofed along the years one side and the other of the regional border .In catalonia is mostly surpassed because most of the population nowadays is a mix of catalans and from spanish, it had been a debate to go through that, with the independentism movement we had a catarsis and we saw that we evolved as a society as something different. In little Spain they had no mixture so is difficult to change mentalities.

There is nothing like knowing your "enemy" to know that is exactly the same as you. That you can talk through everything. That we share most of our problems and we can learn from each other and we don't want the other anything wrong to happen and respect, lots of respect

There was and still is. It is not the same to be a Pujol than a López. Every time you write you insist with the idea that we are fascists.
I do not know how you have evolved, I imagine you mean marginalizing Spanish in education or socially suffocating politicians and opposites.

That new society has just emerged where there is less mixture and inmigration, where there are more hicks.

In little Spain there is a 10% of foreign population and there is no a Le Pen uplifting the masses. The Catalans are who have a superiority complex

 

[Jippy]

Oh, definitely. What is happening in Spain vs Catalonia is because there is a reminiscence of the old empire + dictatorship (where the only valid culture was the castillian). And the spanish government and quite a few of their voters reacts with the same authoritarianism that treated the colonies with the constraints of the XXI century obvious behaviour. Small spaniards exists and they fascist like behaviour is an inheritance of the dictatorship that was never overthrown


At the same time in Catalonia it was a lot of bigotry with spanish immigrating (and take our jobs and women!!!!) and both situations retrofed along the years one side and the other of the regional border .In catalonia is mostly surpassed because most of the population nowadays is a mix of catalans and from spanish, it had been a debate to go through that, with the independentism movement we had a catarsis and we saw that we evolved as a society as something different. In little Spain they had no mixture so is difficult to change mentalities.

There is nothing like knowing your "enemy" to know that is exactly the same as you. That you can talk through everything. That we share most of our problems and we can learn from each other and we don't want the other anything wrong to happen and respect, lots of respect

I love Spain a lot and have been to Madrid, Barcelona, Valencia, Seville, Cadiz etc...and don't really get the regional tensions (albwit I loved Orwell's Homage to Catalonia). You're a great nation, don't tear yourself apart.
Tapas in Seville is what you'd wish for on death row

 

[4bars]

I love Spain a lot and have been to Madrid, Barcelona, Valencia, Seville, Cadiz etc...and don't really get the regional tensions (albwit I loved Orwell's Homage to Catalonia). You're a great nation, don't tear yourself apart.
Tapas in Seville is what you'd wish for on death row

There is a lot of history. As there is a lot of history between England, Ireland, Wales and Scotland

That is the same as "I love John and Jessica" I hope they never split. But Jessica/John has to deal with the other all day long. I love Spain and spaniards, but as a friend. Some realtionships doesn't work specially when they are not sustained from equality but of domination and not giving a choice to stay but obligation. All separate the cities and the people and idiosyncrasy will still exist. So the tapas It would be simply another organization of the administration

And Carvajal. There is a way to go. But definitely you don't have any idea of what is going on. The only ones that make differences right now are unionist to attacking an old fashion cliche that sure there are reminiscences but is well behind for good. The only ones that cant let it go are the ones with the right arm lifted and we all know at which part they belong

And there is a thread for this topic. I will not go on on this here anymore

Just saying that immigration can be from outside the country, from inside, that this sort of hate among people is made up because our societies and politicians needs an escape goat. And going out and meeting people helps a lot with this problems. Specially when you are at the other end of the situation, being the immigrant. All situations that involve a person brings good things and bad things (basically being a human), but a politician only wants the good things and forget about the problems

 

[SwansonsTache]

People can bang on and on about identity politics etc, but it's all BS. The truth is if you want a more socialist system in current western democracies then you most likely going to be more pro immigration and if you don't you'll be anti immigration.

This was true before when you had the classic left-right spectrum. Nowadays anti-immigration and anti-EU parties often have a socialist platform they build from, and see themselves as speaking for the average citizen and worker.

The old political axis really doesn't cut it anymore.

 

[Skills]

I think anyone migrating to a new country for economic reasons should prove that they bring some value to the country as a whole or they have a certain skill that elevates the society they are moving into.

The issue of refugees is a bit different but I think the organizations like the UN that get a lot of funding to deal with these issues should carry their weight and work to establish and maintain safe zones for people to seek shelter in times of war. Large scale immigration and asylum is not the answer to this issue.

Immigrants are however easy scapegoats for the fear mongers when speculative investments go bad and the economy sinks as a result of bankers playing fast and loose.

Aren't you just creating a talent drain in the poorer countries then? If you're just going to take the cream of the crop, how are the countries they're leaving (and could be contributing to a great deal) ever meant to make it a fair playing ground?

 

[Wednesday at Stoke]

Aren't you just creating a talent drain in the poorer countries then? If you're just going to take the cream of the crop, how are the countries they're leaving (and could be contributing to a great deal) ever meant to make it a fair playing ground?

People in general tend to migrate to places where they can flourish the best, that's ingrained in human DNA right from when we were hunter gatherers in Africa. If I'm a scientist in Sudan, I'm not going to waste my life trying to better a broken country where the people around me do not share my values or priorities.

So if the talent drain is going to happen anyways its upto the countries who have the ways and means to provide a better environment to such people to compete in drawing the best to their society.

 

[redmeister]

This was true before when you had the classic left-right spectrum. Nowadays anti-immigration and anti-EU parties often have a socialist platform they build from, and see themselves as speaking for the average citizen and worker.

The old political axis really doesn't cut it anymore.

I actually don't think that's right, as it implies there was a time when working people on the left wanted immigration, rather than those who dictate strategy on the left wanting votes from immigration. Look back at the infamous Enoch Powell speech, there was massive popular support for what he said and it clearly wasn't just a right wing thing. So I don't believe there was ever a time when the general electorate, who wanted a more socialist country, actually wanted more immigrants per se, but tactically they are essential. Even today, if it wasn't for immigrant votes, the Tories would have had a healthy majority.

What we see now still fits in the classical left-right spectrum in my opinion, but perhaps not as the idealists would like you to believe. It's not the leftist strategists or the idealists you find on internet forums that make up the proletariat. Why would the working man or woman want to increase the burden on the state and competition for low skilled jobs? They don't and I don't think they ever have, hence we saw lots of traditional northern strong holds voting for Brexit and I think the result would have been the same at any point in the post industrial age (assuming there was sufficient immigration to concern people.)

I think 65% of immigrants voted for Labour at the last election, which is a massive majority in political terms, where it's perfectly normal to have a govt that only gets about 40% of the votes. If you are a strategist on the left, immigration seems like a good thing. Ideology has little value in a social democracy if you don't get the votes. So there will always be a clash in that respect between the working people and those who are trying to get sufficient support in order to secure a democratic majority. The way around that at the moment is identity politics, but many would rather cut off their arm than recognise that.

 

[psychdelicblues]

I actually don't think that's right, as it implies there was a time when working people on the left wanted immigration, rather than those who dictate strategy on the left wanting votes from immigration. Look back at the infamous Enoch Powell speech, there was massive popular support for what he said and it clearly wasn't just a right wing thing. So I don't believe there was ever a time when the general electorate, who wanted a more socialist country, actually wanted more immigrants per se, but tactically they are essential. Even today, if it wasn't for immigrant votes, the Tories would have had a healthy majority.

What we see now still fits in the classical left-right spectrum in my opinion, but perhaps not as the idealists would like you to believe. It's not the leftist strategists or the idealists you find on internet forums that make up the proletariat. Why would the working man or woman want to increase the burden on the state and competition for low skilled jobs? They don't and I don't think they ever have, hence we saw lots of traditional northern strong holds voting for Brexit and I think the result would have been the same at any point in the post industrial age (assuming there was sufficient immigration to concern people.)

I think 65% of immigrants voted for Labour at the last election, which is a massive majority in political terms, where it's perfectly normal to have a govt that only gets about 40% of the votes. If you are a strategist on the left, immigration seems like a good thing. Ideology has little value in a social democracy if you don't get the votes. So there will always be a clash in that respect between the working people and those who are trying to get sufficient support in order to secure a democratic majority. The way around that at the moment is identity politics, but many would rather cut off their arm than recognise that.

Do you have a source for this?

 

[psychdelicblues]

Yep, I thought not....

 

[Ubik]

Yep, I thought not....

Searching "immigrant voters uk 2017" comes straight up with an Ashcroft poll that had 65% of BME voters going Labour, which is a very different thing but I suspect where the figure possibly arose from.

 

[711]

Searching "immigrant voters uk 2017" comes straight up with an Ashcroft poll that had 65% of BME voters going Labour, which is a very different thing but I suspect where the figure possibly arose from.

It does, two seconds.

Also, if you live in Britain, and talk to your friends, colleagues and neighbours, or if you're isolated for some reason then look at candidates, supporters, media spokespeople, it's hard not to think that's the case.

 

[RedDevil@84]

Immigration as a natural process is always helpful. The state fixing no of immigrants,disproportional to the population of the country is bad. Immigration should not have fixed numeric targets.