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In hindsight, should Guus Hiddink's tactics against Barcelona in 2009 receive more acclaim due to how he contained such an amazing team?
- Thread starter matbezlima
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I think his first loss against Barca came when Barca had nothing to play for and mostly fielded kids. Football is weird.
State of those three. The referee was either on the take or abysmal.
I don't think either hand ball appeal was a pen . Watch them in real time and they ain't that clear cut .
Wont agree but fair enough.
Yeah, the season before we did pretty much the same to a certain extent (even though we should have taken a 2-0 lead away from the Nou Camp). Going toe to toe with that Barca side was probably not the wisest of moves. Think Madrid were on the end of some hammerings during this period for attempting just that if I have the timings right.
My point is there is no discussion. How can it be a masterclass if they went out? It's a contradiction
If you think the Pique or Eto'o hand balls were not clear cut in real time then I really hope that you're not a referee. The Pique one in particular is probably the most blatant hand ball I have ever seen not given. I mean from recollection Anelka knocks it past him by about a meter and the only way it could've not back to him was by a hand. As for the Eto'o one just look how high his arm is, it is virtually fully extended and he was standing about five meters away from the ref. I get that this was funny at the time but to say they were not clear cut is nonesense.
I clearly remember not getting to watch much football outside of United during that season, so I hadn't seen that much of Barcelona prior to the Chelsea matches. Truth be told, I really thought we were gonna put them to the sword when we met in the final. I wasn't the least bit concerned. How little I knew about the beast that we were actually up against. That final and the final in 2011 when we were put to the sword again are two of my top three worst football memories. It was terrible watching us just be helpless like that. Under Sir Alex, to be purely outplayed like that to that extent was unfathomable.
Things aren't that black and white, if it was then by the same logic RDM is the master tactician. Hiddink's tactics meant a team that was sweeping all before them barely laid a glove on us. He done literally everything he possibly could, his approach meant we contained (in Spain) and battered (at The Bridge) a team that made pretty much every other single team they faced that season look like schoolchildren, the finishing and the referee undone his work. Hiddink was in no and I mean no way responsible for us not progressing.
It should receive more credit than 2012.
2009 - they actually contained Barcelona really well and didn't concede many if any clear cut chances.
2012 - they conceded loads of chances and by a miracle somehow edged the tie.
2009 - they actually contained Barcelona really well and didn't concede many if any clear cut chances.
2012 - they conceded loads of chances and by a miracle somehow edged the tie.
Lockdown side effects. Surprised there’s not been a load of more shit threads.
I’ll add that I do respect the OP, he’s a wonderful human being with great character.
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In them times a handball had to be deliberate and there's not a hope in hell any of them where deliberately done so that isn't clear cut . Look at them again on YouTube and forget about today's rules about handball
The deliberate handball rule, haha. If it was strictly adhered to 99.9% of the time we wouldn't have seen penalties given because no defender tries to stop the ball with his hand. A little bit of common sense goes a long way. Anelka plays the ball past Pique who has no chance to intercept it unless it hits his unusually outstretched hand (which you can't use in the game unless you're a keeper in the box btw). It's a penalty.
I do miss these Chelsea Barca match ups on ITV nights.
I do miss these Chelsea Barca match ups on ITV nights.
Chelsea were robbed, and that’s an incredible understatement. It’s really the only thing worth noting about that game. Probably would have won 3 or 4 nil if we had VAR back then.
No team is infallible, but that Barcelona seemed the closest to this back then and in their best performances the truly felt unplayable. Barcelona 2009-2011 was the best team ever for me. About Zidane's Real, they were unconvincing against a far, far, far worse Barcelona team. About United 99, I'm sorry to say this for the United fans here, but the gap between Guardiola's Barcelona and United 99 is too big. United only would have a chance if they parked the bus like Chelsea. Even then, I would not be surprised by a repeat of how the 2009 UCL final was, or even the 2011 one.
Yes! And the miracle was even greater in the final. Chelsea in 2012 had all luck to balance how unlucky they were in 2000s, I never saw a UCL title that seemed like written and inevitable fate to the degree of Chelsea that year. It was written in the stars.
You mentioned that Abidal was sent off. You know he was incorrectly sent off because Anelka tripped himself? If there was such a big conspiracy surely that wouldn't have happened? Then again, people will say anything to fit the narrative.
How old are you?
There’s no need for that. The 98/99 team one year later was schooled by a at the time very unconvincing in La Liga Madrid side, in 01 lost to Bayern, and 02 to Leverkusen. There’s an argument to be made about a one off game but over a long stretch of time that team was far less convincing than Barca 09-11, so it wasn’t improbable that they would have beaten us. The 08/09 side were much less enthralling to watch but they were much more tactically savvy, and still got frustrated by the passing carousel.
I think we looked at those two finals with too much hindsight at times. In 11 it was clearly a massacre but in 09 it was even for a long period of the match, with us starting more brightly but Eto’o goal killed that momentum and let them play their passing game, replay that game ten times and we could’ve won a few of them.
The refereeing decisions in that game were bordering on disgraceful - there is no doubt about it.
It's a fair question. How old was she/he?
You can't look at game results and highlights from the time and pretend to compare the two regardless of the circumstances which affected the teams if you weren't really around.
Just like I can't read a synopsis and say I've seen a movie.
In that tie there were questionable decisions for Chelsea too (first leg especially), but its somehow made like it was all for Barcelona.
Abidal should have had a straight red for the last man foul in the box on drogba.
None of those teams of the past would've beat that Barca side. Maybe the Juve sides which were really good defensively. Our side would've been just as disorganized against them as the side that lost.
In hindsight, I do not consider that Barcelona to be as great as they are made out to be. Top five all-time possibly, but at the bottom of that list, certainly not top, as many would have them. Maybe top seven, need to give this more thought.
Instead, I think that they peaked at a very convenient time, as there were no real other European powerhouses to compete against. This was not true only in their first season, when they got the better of United, but that United peaked a year before... Ronaldo clearly wanted out and had his worst post-teenage season that year, with United grinding their way towards the domestic title that season and their European displays also not being that impressive (sure, nice to beat Arsenal in such a way, but remember Porto before that? United were mediocre all season). And this was a final that Barcelona should have never been in!
I think that United fans are more likely to overrate that Barcelona team than anyone due to the two final defeats. However, please remember the 2011 final... That United team is among the worst CL finalists in the last 20-odd years that I have been following football and would have been easily beaten by any team capable of winning the CL in most seasons.
So, while two CLs in four years is obviously a great achievement, it would have been only one had it not been for a scandalous refereeing display against Chelsea. So, even in the 21st century, I would put that Barcelona behind Real Madrid teams from the middle of the previous decade and the early 00s as well as Heynckes's Bayern.
Going back to the thread topic - I think that Hiddink did a great job with Chelsea, but he did nothing revolutionary against Barca, really, given that Mourinho and Di Matteo/Terry managed to do the very same thing.
Instead, I think that they peaked at a very convenient time, as there were no real other European powerhouses to compete against. This was not true only in their first season, when they got the better of United, but that United peaked a year before... Ronaldo clearly wanted out and had his worst post-teenage season that year, with United grinding their way towards the domestic title that season and their European displays also not being that impressive (sure, nice to beat Arsenal in such a way, but remember Porto before that? United were mediocre all season). And this was a final that Barcelona should have never been in!
I think that United fans are more likely to overrate that Barcelona team than anyone due to the two final defeats. However, please remember the 2011 final... That United team is among the worst CL finalists in the last 20-odd years that I have been following football and would have been easily beaten by any team capable of winning the CL in most seasons.
So, while two CLs in four years is obviously a great achievement, it would have been only one had it not been for a scandalous refereeing display against Chelsea. So, even in the 21st century, I would put that Barcelona behind Real Madrid teams from the middle of the previous decade and the early 00s as well as Heynckes's Bayern.
Going back to the thread topic - I think that Hiddink did a great job with Chelsea, but he did nothing revolutionary against Barca, really, given that Mourinho and Di Matteo/Terry managed to do the very same thing.
Negative, parking the bus tactics, should never really receive heaps of acclaim and rightly so imo.
Everyone forgets that this same team lost to a 6th place Chelsea at their own stadium. They had a year where they captured lightning in a bottle but no they aren't on the same level as prime Barcelona.
Don't get me wrong, I am not among the people who say that Chelsea was intentionally robbed in that game and I have often been criticized for this opinion.
21.
I actually meant the 2012-13 season. The year before they were still a work in progress - they lost both the domestic title and cup to Dortmund. Having said that, glimpses of what was to come were there for all to see in their CL run. What they did in the semis against Real was very impressive and the final defeat was... Rather freakish, given the football on display and the chances created.
It was mainly because of the English centric media who blew it out of proportion, True there were calls that favoured Barcelona and lets not forget Abidal getting a red card for non-contact with 30mins to go and 1 goal down
If you want to watch infamous referee games, watch Madrid vs Bayern where Vidal was given a red card and Ronaldo scored 2 blatantly offside goals
That was never a foul, Drogba and Abidal had a tussle, Drogba lost the ball and milked it
If you want to talk about a team outclassing Barcelona in the last 12yrs without resorting to bus parking and bunkering
How about 2013 Bayern that blew Barcelona 7-0 away. In the past 12yrs I dont think there was ever a time Barcelona was so outclassed in a CL knockout
How about 2013 Bayern that blew Barcelona 7-0 away. In the past 12yrs I dont think there was ever a time Barcelona was so outclassed in a CL knockout
According to another referee reviewing those decisions, the main referee could only have given 1 penalty correctly. He said 2 of those are a penalty by the book, but the main referee could of course not give a penalty on the pique handball because his linesman had a much better view.
He thought the main referee got more criticism than he deserved.
He thought the main referee got more criticism than he deserved.
Except that for the whole tussle abidal was the wrongside of drogba pulling his shirt
Didn't Arsenal get close to knocking them out in their 2011 run? Do we have any Arsenal fans on here who remember those games?
Round of 16 - First leg
Arsenal 2-1 Barcelona
Round of 16 - Second leg
Barcelona 3-1 Arsenal
Arsenal were only one goal from knocking them out and I remember it being a very tense affair in that second half IIRC.
Round of 16 - First leg
Arsenal 2-1 Barcelona
Round of 16 - Second leg
Barcelona 3-1 Arsenal
Arsenal were only one goal from knocking them out and I remember it being a very tense affair in that second half IIRC.
The gap between both teams was far bigger than the agreggate score suggests. Barcelona was far superior. Here my analysis of both matches, but specially the second leg.
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/my-...-3-1-arsenal-2011-it-was-a-weird-game.454368/
Also, I highly recommend that you watch the first leg. It was one of the greatest UCL KO games of last decade! Truly brilliant football, high lines, strong pressing, fast-paced (the overall speed of play and very quick decision-making in tight spaces and under strong pressing was often mind-blowing), the quality of the passing triangles and combinations, the technical level displayed by BOTH teams was so absurdly high, though Barcelona were still brilliant and superior for most of the game, specially the first half, despite losing. And Arsenal's late comeback was heroic!
First half:
Second half:
Having a hard time seeing your point here. So the referee was abysmal. Sort of already established that.
The ref was poor and made decisions that affected both sides not just Chelsea like the English media portrays