In hindsight, was Wayne Rooney right to question the club’s ambitions?

[He'sRaldo]

Only you could put Poch into the same category as Klopp and Pep And now don’t tell me Poch would be as good if he had the money - but I am sure you will do exactly that.

He came third in manager of the year award after Pep and Klopp, so he was at that level for a time.

Now with the new managers coming up who knows how highly he'll be rated once he gets a job.

 

[el3mel]

At this time of course he was right.

 

[Cassidy]

Yes
He was right we sold Ronaldo and replaced him with Valencia and Young

 

[Bastian]

Yes.

 

[UnofficialDevil]

yes

 

[ray24]

You guys wasted a fair bit of money trying to sign players for roles that were increasing redundant in the game. The last few years of Ferguson's reign was spent on players that aren't suited for how the game was developing, and you ended up with a bunch of deadwood.

Ferguson tried to build a traditional 442 squad when the game was moving to 433 even in England. Once Ferguson is gone, you guys hired old fashioned managers that were increasingly left behind by the modern game. You guys were trying to aim for "proven" managers, but ignored the fact that they were outdated in terms of footballing tactics.

 

[pacifictheme]

We have spent as much as anyone since and broken world transfers along the way. So no. He was doing that out of self interest.

Its important to factor in when he said it and not count the 7 years since. Otherwise it may seem like you have an agenda to the untrained eye.

 

[kafta]

I dont get how someone can say he was wrong because we spent money. Lack of ambition can also be diagnosed as refusing to modernize the structure of the club which would lead to the owners relinquishing some control.

Spending money out of desperation is not ambition, its avoiding disaster. Also, spending just enough to keep the champions league money coming is not ambition.

I hate what wayne did at the time, and i still do. Dont think he was way off though.

 

[cyril C]

When someone's form nose dive after getting a new contract, has lost any right to say anything.

 

[Bebestation]

You guys wasted a fair bit of money trying to sign players for roles that were increasing redundant in the game. The last few years of Ferguson's reign was spent on players that aren't suited for how the game was developing, and you ended up with a bunch of deadwood.

Ferguson tried to build a traditional 442 squad when the game was moving to 433 even in England. Once Ferguson is gone, you guys hired old fashioned managers that were increasingly left behind by the modern game. You guys were trying to aim for "proven" managers, but ignored the fact that they were outdated in terms of footballing tactics.

This is interesting.

Is this talking about Young & Valencia?

It was all very weird because whilst it's not completely true - I felt that United, SAF and Ronaldo during his time here had a little (not all) of the influence on the inverted forward thing that had been turning up more & more alongside with the 433.

Even if it wasnt the perfect 433 in balance the Rooney, Ronaldo & Tevez thing played great in the same way alongside the other players that would pop on like Nani or Park Ji sung or Giggs or whoever.


However, I got a bit disappointed with the whole movement to the traditional wingers like young & Valencia- as well as all the traditional style poacher style strikers to add on top of it because I thought we were ready to move on from that when we had decided to move on from RVN for the other attacking 3 that won the CL. So I was also bit disappointed with all the time spent with a striker like Chicharito and to some extent Berbatov (atleast he was artistic in his play so there was hope he could be more fluid in his gameplay which would help the whole team overall).

 

[Class of 63]

I don't think any player at any club at any time should come out with that nonsense as it only causes division in the dressing-room, if you're not happy, simples feck off

 

[BaneIsPain]

Definitely yes. He was frustrated at the direction of the club at the time.

 

[Nikelesh Reddy]

I still hold reservations over the fact that he chose to do it on a day where we had a CL game to play.

But in hindsight, has he been proven right over the years by questioning the club’s ambitions in the transfer market?

(Couldn’t find a thread on this but if there already is one, apologies)

Robin van Persia....Angel Di Maria....Paul Pogba....Zlatan ibrahimovich,Sanchez and Falcao on huge wages....Maguire for 80 million last summer....He certainly wasn’t right at all.Our problem isn’t lack of “ambition”,our problem is lack of “organisation”...
We have spent heavily over the last 6-7 years....Yeah,this summer has been dissapointing but we”ve certainly not been shy of spending huge money over the last few years.,,

We have signed high profile players for obscene wages...Hell we even pay our goalkeeper 350,000 pounds per week!!No club in Europe would pay such wages to a GK..,Our problem hasn’t been the lack of money,our problem has been the scatter gun approach that we”ve adopted while signing players...So yes,Rooney was completely out of order when he questioned the ambition of the club...

 

[reddevilz007]

The club ambition is to be at the top of Forbes top richest sports team and bring money back to the owners. It’s been like that ever since Glazers took over. It’s a corporate culture.

 

[Falcow]

Its important to factor in when he said it and not count the 7 years since. Otherwise it may seem like you have an agenda to the untrained eye.

The only agenda here was Rooneys, but a lot of 'untrained eyes' seem to have missed that. I didnt hear him moaning about ambition the season we signed Fellaini, might have something to do with the bumper 5 year contract that wally Moyes handed him around the same time?

Rooney has been proved wrong ever since, he accused the club of lacking ambition but the club went out and spent ludicrous amounts of money and tried to hire the best managers available in Pep (botched interview attempt by Ferguson) and Klopp (botched interview attempt by Ed) so we ended up hiring two other world class managers in LVG and Jose. I dont think there is any need for me to starting listing the amounts we spent on various players since.

The idea that we lack ambition is nonsense and there is no evidence to support it. The money was there to spend when he said it, it's just that Fergie chose not to. Same way it was there for Moyes who also chose not to spend it.

Liverpool haven't spent much this summer or last but doesnt mean they are lacking ambition.

I'm so tired of this nonsense. We are shit, cos we have bought shit players for far too long. It's no more complicated that that really.

 

[Random Task]

I still hold reservations over the fact that he chose to do it on a day where we had a CL game to play.

But in hindsight, has he been proven right over the years by questioning the club’s ambitions in the transfer market?

(Couldn’t find a thread on this but if there already is one, apologies)

No, the club has spent north of a billion quid on new players since then. The only trouble is we've spent it poorly.

 

[pacifictheme]

The only agenda here was Rooneys, but a lot of 'untrained eyes' seem to have missed that. I didnt hear him moaning about ambition the season we signed Fellaini, might have something to do with the bumper 5 year contract that wally Moyes handed him around the same time?

Rooney has been proved wrong ever since, he accused the club of lacking ambition but the club went out and spent ludicrous amounts of money and tried to hire the best managers available in Pep (botched interview attempt by Ferguson) and Klopp (botched interview attempt by Ed) so we ended up hiring two other world class managers in LVG and Jose. I dont think there is any need for me to starting listing the amounts we spent on various players since.

The idea that we lack ambition is nonsense and there is no evidence to support it. The money was there to spend when he said it, it's just that Fergie chose not to. Same way it was there for Moyes who also chose not to spend it.

Liverpool haven't spent much this summer or last but doesnt mean they are lacking ambition.

I'm so tired of this nonsense. We are shit, cos we have bought shit players for far too long. It's no more complicated that that really.

So again you list things we did after Rooney said we lacked ambition as proof he wasn't right when he said it? Cool.

Don't get me wrong I think we've been mismanaged in the last 7 years rather than lacking ambition and I do think he partly used the situation to get a new contract, but considering we'd lost tevez and Ronaldo and replaced them with total shite, he was right and in a really strong bargaining position.

 

[AaronRedDevil]

We have spent as much as anyone since and broken world transfers along the way. So no. He was doing that out of self interest.

We got obertan, Valencia and Owen one summer.....

 

[Siorac]

We got obertan, Valencia and Owen one summer.....

And then only Smalling and Hernandez in 2010.

Oh wait no, we also got Bebe. Clearly Rooney was talking out of his arse then.

 

[AaronRedDevil]

And then only Smalling and Hernandez in 2010.

Oh wait no, we also got Bebe. Clearly Rooney was talking out of his arse then.

During the SAF last few years he was damn right.

 

[lewwoo]

Yes he has been proven right. Cant really blame him for wanting to leave either. He was world class and wanted to challenge for trophies.

 

[Falcow]

So again you list things we did after Rooney said we lacked ambition as proof he wasn't right when he said it? Cool.

Don't get me wrong I think we've been mismanaged in the last 7 years rather than lacking ambition and I do think he partly used the situation to get a new contract, but considering we'd lost tevez and Ronaldo and replaced them with total shite, he was right and in a really strong bargaining position.

The OP did not ask 'was he right when he said it?" the question posed by the OP was "has he been proven right over the years by questioning the club’s ambitions in the transfer market?"

That's the question I have been trying to answer. This post was created yesterday in response to our loss at home to palace.

In fairness, looking at who we signed at the time, you could certainly argue that we lacked ambition...back then. That's when there was a different management team/CEO in place so it's a bit unfair on woodward to bring those signings up now I think. That was all on Fergie and Gill.

The arsenal fan above makes some very valid points re outdated signings etc as well.

 

[Falcow]

Yes he has been proven right. Cant really blame him for wanting to leave either. He was world class and wanted to challenge for trophies.

He was an alcho on the decline at that point. I'll never forget the sky news cameras on board the united train on the way to Wembley for the 2011 CL final, there was Rooney sitting on the train drinking a can of red bull and eating a packet of crisps....world class indeed.

Dont get me wrong, I loved Rooney and he is one of my favourite ever players but there is a good reason why he was finished at the top level at age 28 and currently struggling in the championship while Ronaldo, who is older is still tearing it up at the highest level.

I think he just wanted out at that time and said whatever he was told to say by his agent.

 

[ray24]

This is interesting.

Is this talking about Young & Valencia?

It was all very weird because whilst it's not completely true - I felt that United, SAF and Ronaldo during his time here had a little (not all) of the influence on the inverted forward thing that had been turning up more & more alongside with the 433.

Even if it wasnt the perfect 433 in balance the Rooney, Ronaldo & Tevez thing played great in the same way alongside the other players that would pop on like Nani or Park Ji sung or Giggs or whoever.


However, I got a bit disappointed with the whole movement to the traditional wingers like young & Valencia- as well as all the traditional style poacher style strikers to add on top of it because I thought we were ready to move on from that when we had decided to move on from RVN for the other attacking 3 that won the CL. So I was also bit disappointed with all the time spent with a striker like Chicharito and to some extent Berbatov (atleast he was artistic in his play so there was hope he could be more fluid in his gameplay which would help the whole team overall).

Young and Valenica, as well as Ferguson refusing to buy any decent passing midfielders. Look at the defenders you guys bought. Smalling and Phil Jones were unsuited to the modern passing game as defenders. De Gea, while he was an excellent shot stopper, is not a modern goalkeeper that plays out from the back.

I think what Ferguson meant by not having value in the market is in part down to him trying to build a "traditional" 442 team but with younger players. Of course you are not going to find value in that market because such players are becoming extremely rare.

You guys did play with inverted wingers during the Ronaldo-Tevez era, but once they left, you were switching back to a 442. And the fact that Ferguson pushed for Moyes as his replacement, a manager that plays a form of 442 over more modern football shows Ferguson in his final years was perhaps overly sentimental in his tactical outlook. Ferguson won you guys his last title in 2013, but that came at an expense of not setting up the team for the more modern game. You guys ended up spending nearly a whole decade trying to play catch up to the modern game.

 

[BorisManUtd]

Yes he was, our spending in 2009-2012 period bar RvP was underwhelming, all those rumours of Benzema/Hazard/Sneijder and it never happened. Ever since 2013/14 we spent a lot but mostly without a clear plan and now we still need more signings.

 

[Butty19]

Yes he absolutely was. However the ambition of the club should’ve meant he never signed that bumper contract under Moyes and was shipped out and replaced.

 

[GifLord]

I mean we didn't even spend the money from Ronaldo's sale
I don't know in what kind of financial state we were back then but there was something shady going on behind the curtain.
Also Fergie was constantly saying there's no real value on the transfer market? Or something like that?

 

[Machine Elements]

This is interesting.

Is this talking about Young & Valencia?

It was all very weird because whilst it's not completely true - I felt that United, SAF and Ronaldo during his time here had a little (not all) of the influence on the inverted forward thing that had been turning up more & more alongside with the 433.

Even if it wasnt the perfect 433 in balance the Rooney, Ronaldo & Tevez thing played great in the same way alongside the other players that would pop on like Nani or Park Ji sung or Giggs or whoever.


However, I got a bit disappointed with the whole movement to the traditional wingers like young & Valencia- as well as all the traditional style poacher style strikers to add on top of it because I thought we were ready to move on from that when we had decided to move on from RVN for the other attacking 3 that won the CL. So I was also bit disappointed with all the time spent with a striker like Chicharito and to some extent Berbatov (atleast he was artistic in his play so there was hope he could be more fluid in his gameplay which would help the whole team overall).

It was more of a 4-6-0 without an apparent number 9 rather than a 4-3-3 and it was down to the modernisation of our game thanks to Carlos Queiroz. When he gone, we went back to the old ways and made our purchases accordingly.

This is an article from June 2012, even before Sir Alex retired and United experienced the shitshow we saw in the last 7 years, and it sums up our tactical regression since that 2008 team, struggling in Europe against the likes of Bilbao etc. perfectly imo.

http://whitehouseaddress.blogspot.com/2012/06/uniteds-decline-how-united-have.html?m=1

 

[MancunianAngels]

Rooney should have been binned off at that time.

He was spot on with his criticism of the club though. It's somewhat ironic that we ended up giving him a mega contract instead of signing a younger striker.

Had he gone to City in 2011, they probably wouldn't have signed Aguero. Imagine Rooney and Balotelli up front? Carnage!

 

[Bebestation]

It was more of a 4-6-0 without an apparent number 9 rather than a 4-3-3 and it was down to the modernisation of our game thanks to Carlos Queiroz. When he gone, we went back to the old ways and made our purchases accordingly.

This is an article from June 2012, even before Sir Alex retired and United experienced the shitshow we saw in the last 7 years, and it sums up our tactical regression since that 2008 team, struggling in Europe against the likes of Bilbao etc. perfectly imo.

http://whitehouseaddress.blogspot.com/2012/06/uniteds-decline-how-united-have.html?m=1

I know that's what I had thought too but I find it hard to talk about just how much of an influence an assistant manager or a coach can have on our game under SAF and how our style of the team can change by removing them and replacing them to an almost different level.

Then people consider that Ole is arguably someone who has learnt from SAF management (aka his man management, maybe some of his tactics) & people are saying that they see a lack of coaching or a style of football going on where in the modern game nearly most top team plays with a philosophy. Maybe what's lacking is the right assistant managers or a coach is here?

It can be seen the importance of the assistant managers to SAF & us in the past or even someone like Klopp these days.