India politics thread

[Lord SInister]

You don't have to be a nut job, you would just do well with your false equivalency

Well that is your opinion, I can play a nutjob also easily, it isn't that difficult tbh.

As for false equivalency, it is not about being false equivalent. I am not denying I tend to be more inclined towards the right, but the thing is in politics and debates, one point is enough to outcast you. Just one point. You either are fully agree with one side or you don't, if you are inbetween, you are either a fruad or useless.

 

[pratyush_utd]

Did you just delete your post defending the BJP and how only their fringe hatred/racism/bigotry gets made out to be an issue? Tried finding it to call it out but couldn't.

Regardless, I haven't seen another force in the country with the mandate and power it has, be so distasteful and dangerous in their very ideology. Claiming that it's their fringe elements is nothing short of a lie. With them, it isn't the fringe. It is the fringe spreading the core message of the Leadership who can pretend to be followers of Gandhi meanwhile. If you like these core values of fascism, authoritarianism, bigotry and hatred for Muslims, goal of Hindu Rashtra, misinformation, anti intellectual mindset etc then good for you I suppose. But let's not pretend this is a fringe element thing.

And I believe in this post you mentioned that this is a bias against Hinduism. Simply put, not it isn't. I'm Hindu as are all my loved ones and friends/family. I'm against this political misuse and polluting of Hinduism called Hindutva. There's a difference which society is slowly blurring due to the misinformation campaign of the IT cell.

Well I did because of this reason exactly. Accusations will be thrown of defending BJP. Name-calling would follow. You have a point of view and others have their own. Doesn't mean you are correct. Nobody wants a fascist government but that accusations is not correct at all. This government is not special in any kind of way than previous governments.

I don't want to get into this argument but growing up in Bihar ,I have seen worse than present government. Do I think BJP is saint party and wrongly accused of things? No not at all but it's blown way out of proportion. Their power grab is nothing different from Congress and other political parties.

Anyone who has a different point of view is accused of bigotry and seriously don't wish to engage in it. I do feel the current criticism of TJ is extremely warranted. Considering it was religious congregation, it will feel like it was directed towards Muslims in general. We should just move on from this and hence I deleted that post. There was no need to point it out. Misinformation campaign is not only one side. But I am sure you won't agree on that.

Let's leave it here. Muslims are marginalized but it was the same even before 2014. Do we need to change it? Yes but we need active Muslim participation in that. I don't see that happening any soon.

 

[Lord SInister]

This minority appeasement nonsense has seeped in to so many debates due to misinformation. No one has heard facts of "minority appeasement".

Obviously aside from the most stark stupidity of that argument, that you don't reverse this "appeasement" (even if true) by then pandering to the majority to "level" things off.

Its propaganda working at ita finest

I not saying that we have to counter minority appeasement with majority pandering. I am just asking for more transparency from the opposition. We should be against shaming of all Muslims because of few anti elements, but at the same time, we should also cut down the voices which mock Hindus because of few anti elements.

 

[Lord SInister]

you're a star , Stan. Sorry, but the wryness of that statement

It is okay, I don't mind good humor, even if it is directed against me.

He(or anyone) may have formed an opinion about me, it is their full right. But that doesn't mean they are correct, or maybe they are and I don't realise it. Or maybe I do realise it, and still playing a fake game. Options are infinite, so this debate is futile at the end.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Nah, I will not fit in the with the conservatives. My issue is when i am surrounded by radicals, I always talk about their hypocrisy and when i am surrounded by liberals, i talk about their hypocrisy. So I will neither fit conservatives nor liberals, I will probably be thrown away as someone who is dual personality.




But question is BJP the only one who does it? Because we have seen, that many things Hindu is being demonized by a section of media. Yes I am not denying BJP is exploiting it and has created this divide, actually not created just highlighted, because this divide was always their.

we need a opposition whether politicians or media/activists who are actually secular and not minority pleasing ones. Because that is the only way we can distract the people from communal talk, and debate should be more about the mismanagement and incompetence of the BJP government. But I don't see opposition doing that, they are playing hand in hand with this communal debate.

To this extent, yes they are the biggest culprits. As I said, it's one thing for communalism to have cultural roots in India and parties to play a bit of vote bank politics and another thing for the machinery to be the engine behind its propagation (via IT cells, via mob lynchings, via WhatsApp misinformation, via misusing institutions, via actual laws enacted, via your main cultural goals and manifesto). I've never seen it to this degree in my lifetime and Modi and his party should be held accountable for it. Otherwise we're just throwing a convenient blanket over it as they'd like us to.

Muslim appeasement? Sure, I think we should have genuinely done more for them but as a Hindu I don't remember us being persecuted in general aside from the Kashmir issue. The whole of India has during my lifetime been a great place to be Hindu. And it's mere lies and political propaganda to make Hindus feel like aching victims.

And the only reason we are now seeing some disdain/mocking of Hindus is because of the antics of the BJP in the name of Hindutva and hence tarnishing the good natured Hindus like us who don't share their rubbish principles.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Well I did because of this reason exactly. Accusations will be thrown of defending BJP. Name-calling would follow. You have a point of view and others have their own. Doesn't mean you are correct. Nobody wants a fascist government but that accusations is not correct at all. This government is not special in any kind of way than previous governments.

I don't want to get into this argument but growing up in Bihar ,I have seen worse than present government. Do I think BJP is saint party and wrongly accused of things? No not at all but it's blown way out of proportion. Their power grab is nothing different from Congress and other political parties.

Anyone who has a different point of view is accused of bigotry and seriously don't wish to engage in it. I do feel the current criticism of TJ is extremely warranted. Considering it was religious congregation, it will feel like it was directed towards Muslims in general. We should just move on from this and hence I deleted that post. There was no need to point it out. Misinformation campaign is not only one side. But I am sure you won't agree on that.

Let's leave it here. Muslims are marginalized but it was the same even before 2014. Do we need to change it? Yes but we need active Muslim participation in that. I don't see that happening any soon.

We can leave it here. But you're clearly unwilling to look at the BJP for what it really is. Muslims are no better/worse off , the party is the same as any other party , no difference in authoritarian/facism etc. Basically nothing they do is exceptional or any worse than anything we've seen. It's all very Trump-like where no bullet can ever hurt him and there's always an excuse.

 

[Lord SInister]

To this extent, yes they are the biggest culprits. As I said, it's one thing for communalism to have cultural roots in India and parties to play a bit of vote bank politics and another thing for the machinery to be the engine behind its propagation (via IT cells, via mob lynchings, via WhatsApp misinformation, via misusing institutions, via actual laws enacted, via your main cultural goals and manifesto). I've never seen it to this degree in my lifetime and Modi and his party should be held accountable for it. Otherwise we're just throwing a convenient blanket over it as they'd like us to.

Muslim appeasement? Sure, I think we should have genuinely done more for them but as a Hindu I don't remember us being persecuted in general aside from the Kashmir issue. The whole of India has during my lifetime been a great place to be Hindu. And it's mere lies and political propaganda to make Hindus feel like aching victims.

And the only reason we are now seeing some disdain/mocking of Hindus is because of the antics of the BJP in the name of Hindutva and hence tarnishing the good natured Hindus like us who don't share their rubbish principles.

Well it all depends on what kind of social media you follow, I have seen my friends who always share anti-BJP/RSS posts, the amount of fake news and misinformation propoganda is no less than Bhakts machinery.

But I get your point, since BJP is in power, they are more liable to criticism because they have the power to curb such elements but they are not doing due to their own interests. Yes, on broader sense, you mean to say that BJP is deliberately doing it as its main motive is to make India a Muslim Mukth country.

You are entitled to your opinion.

While I don't agree mocking of Hindus has solely to do with BJP, it is just that now people have an excuse to mock Hindus, because mocking Hindusim is seen as attack on BJP, which IMO is wrong.

But that is my observation and opinion, and maybe I am fully wrong, and one day when I will be driven out of the country by BJP for being a Nepali, I will understand my folly, and realise Amol was right, but currently I don't see much evidence which supports your theory for me.

But it is always nice talking with you, and don't take this post and disagreement with you as insulting you. Because I only insult those who deliberately do it. You aren't paid by anyone to have your views, those are your opinion, observation and views, not driven by any political or other gains. And hope you also don't have any bad feeling about me, because I don't agree with your assessment fully.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Well it all depends on what kind of social media you follow, I have seen my friends who always share anti-BJP/RSS posts, the amount of fake news and misinformation propoganda is no less than Bhakts machinery.

But I get your point, since BJP is in power, they are more liable to criticism because they have the power to curb such elements but they are not doing due to their own interests. Yes, on broader sense, you mean to say that BJP is deliberately doing it as its main motive is to make India a Muslim Mukth country.

You are entitled to your opinion.

While I don't agree mocking of Hindus has solely to do with BJP, it is just that now people have an excuse to mock Hindus, because mocking Hindusim is seen as attack on BJP, which IMO is wrong.

But that is my observation and opinion, and maybe I am fully wrong, and one day when I will be driven out of the country by BJP for being a Nepali, I will understand my folly, and realise Amol was right, but currently I don't see much evidence which supports your theory for me.

But it is always nice talking with you, and don't take this post and disagreement with you as insulting you. Because I only insult those who deliberately do it. You aren't paid by anyone to have your views, those are your opinion, observation and views, not driven by any political or other gains. And hope you also don't have any bad feeling about me, because I don't agree with your assessment fully.

The point about the mocking of Hindus - I'm sure you are correct in that it is not solely BJP related. Some of it would definitely have been people who already had/have developed biases and are now emboldened to come "out of the closet" with their own bigotry. But while part of that is politically motivated I'm sure, another part is is genuine bigotry, a good chunk would also be a direct result of the majoritarian suppression underpinned by religion/discrimination. To put it in short, there will always be Christians and Muslims and others who will hate Hindus for being Hindus (and visa versa) but there will also be some who are put into that category or emboldened or provoked by the current climate (communal division, suppression). And you know who I put that down to! But agree to disagree on this.

No ill feelings whatsoever. This is the best way to disagree - with maturity and mutual respect

 

[milemuncher777]

 

[coolredwine]

Before Nizamuddim, we had social media full of jokes of cow urine, cow dung and even Junta Curfew which wasn't religious, being mocked as a Hindu festival.

For example Chakrapani the one who organised Gaumutra party is not a leader of Hindus, but whatever he does or says, is held as a tool against Hindus.

I am pretty sure laughing/mocking them is different to “corona jihad”. Dont you?

 

[pratyush_utd]

We can leave it here. But you're clearly unwilling to look at the BJP for what it really is. Muslims are no better/worse off , the party is the same as any other party , no difference in authoritarian/facism etc. Basically nothing they do is exceptional or any worse than anything we've seen. It's all very Trump-like where no bullet can ever hurt him and there's always an excuse.

I don't have any political affiliation with any political party , just want to state that before i get called out as BJP supporter. I have seen the terror unleashed by RJD and Congress while growing up, rampant corruption and blatant disregard for Constitutional values. Law and order machinery was reduced to joke with child kidnapping being made into an industry with support from the top political class. Dividing society on the basis of caste lines, using Yadav and Muslim vote combination to grab political power and providing next to nothing to other community. Political murders on the scale this country have never seen. Journalist integrity was non existent and who had even iota of integrity were eliminated. IAS officer was killed by mob led by political members of both Congress and RJD. The list goes on. This was India in the 90's. Same era in which congress was busy sabotaging every single government in Central and State level. Countless government were toppled by Congress and MLA and MP's horse trading was rampant. Using governors to topple elected government was perfected by Congress. Compare that to present government and you will hardly see any difference.

Coming to UPA, undermining the PMO was the biggest grab of power this country has ever seen. Using non government organization (close ties with Sonia Gandhi) with foreign links to determine policy (most recent reference i can find for this is Tavleen Singh interview with Barkha, will link it if you want) and severely undermining Manmohan Singh government can be described as no less than butchery of Indian constitution. None of these were even properly reported by the same class of journalist who are now crying about fascism and authoritarian nature of BJP. Cases of corruption is well known in UPA 2. Former CJI have been appointed as Rajya Sabha members by Congress also. 1986 ordinance to overturn SC rule to appease to Muslim personal law board by Rajiv Gandhi was the beginning of this confrontation but hardly gets mentioned in press. India is the only secular country in the world which allows Polygamy for Muslims (which is an absolute joke). Article 370 and Article 35A ensured Valmiki population (Dalits if people don't know who they are) to remain backward and marginalized in Kashmir for generation. How many articles were actually written about the plight of these people by the same journalist who cry about Dalit oppression now (which is ironic as getting above 50% vote in UP in general election cannot happen without significant dalit votes) ? I will ask just a simple question, do you remember who was Bihar CM when Bhagalpur riots happened in Bihar? Everyone in the world know who was in power in Gujrat in 2002.

Do i believe present BJP government is innocent when it comes to Minority affairs? No absolutely not. The environment today is partly because of BJP. But are they the only villain in this? I don't agree with that. They are no worse than other political party when it comes to divisive, fascism and authoritarian policy. Its just that their act is not as subtle as others and also do not have the backing of the elite journalist class based in Delhi. That is why i believe it has been blown way out of proportion. Foreign press has been equally guilty in misreporting facts.

Point what i am making is the way you described this government is exactly what we have been getting all these years. We can agree to disagree on that. I just don't agree with selective amnesia when it comes to other political party nor i agree it is worse for any community than what it always was. Although i do agree that a sense of alienation has increased in Muslims and i do believe present government is responsible for that.

 

[ThatsGreat]

Idiocy is when you expect people to sit and condemn every nonsense happening in the country. Unlike you, not everyone is on a constant lookout to find something/someone to hate.

You don't have to bloody hate them, what are you like a binary robot. The idiots should be censured, and corrected. Islamophobia shouldn't be a excuse to let them get away with murder. This is the problem in India, its either you're with me, or you're the enemy. This attitude is whats going to end the country.

 

[RedDevil@84]

But there has been announcement on supply of PPE and masks by Health Ministry, ordering 1.5 crores, unless you mean Modi himself should have address so it would reach more people and assure them that government is doing something, which I agree.

I would prefer the PM (Modi or whoever) to talk in length about measures taken by the govt in a press conference. And provide details of that. Something on the lines of what the Kerala CM does on an almost daily basis. But anyways, that's a personal preference.

My point was that the health workers would appreciate actually receiving this stuff, getting overtime for their efforts etc., over lighting lamps or banging thalis. Moral support wouldn't be high on their priority list in these difficult times.

 

[RedDevil@84]

This is the problem in India, its either you're with me, or you're the enemy.

Exactly your attitude where you call caf posters as the brothren of TJ. This either with us or against us is going to end the country.

 

[MDFC Manager]

facts don’t matter. Propaganda sells.

Indeed.

Here's another fact. So far we've only had 75k tests.Shockingly low.

 

[Lord SInister]

I am pretty sure laughing/mocking them is different to “corona jihad”. Dont you?

If it was just mocking at them, which even I did, than it wouldn't be same. But mocking didn't stopped at their stupidity, it went to gaumutra, gobar, Ram Navmi and so on. Even Namaste was shamed.

Is Jihad something personal or it represents Islam in a way for all Muslims? i want to understand it from their perspective, because generally we think Jihad relates to war against Non-Muslims.

And when you have some Maulanas and some nutjob people saying, it won't effect Muslims and it is for Kafirs.

and it's not just India, there were pilgrims being called out even in Turkey, where brought the virus back from Saudi and ran away from quarantine exposing the population, all because they were told by the leaders to not take this seriously. But since that place doesn't have other majority religion, so it hasn't taken a communal angle.


And I can give you in writing, that given us most of us humans are dumbasses regardless of religion, during this Ram Navmi and Navratri season and 5April 2020 nautanki, you will have one group or another from Hindus doing something absolutely stupid and when the tables will be turned, it will be a vengeance filled posting from victim card players and the Muslims shamers will become victim card players. It is just a cycle.

 

[Lord SInister]

I would prefer the PM (Modi or whoever) to talk in length about measures taken by the govt in a press conference. And provide details of that. Something on the lines of what the Kerala CM does on an almost daily basis. But anyways, that's a personal preference.

My point was that the health workers would appreciate actually receiving this stuff, getting overtime for their efforts etc., over lighting lamps or banging thalis. Moral support wouldn't be high on their priority list in these difficult times.

See firstly, I agree with you and I myself said it first, PM should talk about these steps himself. While obviously Tope should elaborate it later, if PM doesn't have time or full technicalities knowledge.

Second, no moral support is as important as technical and material support. I know many doctors and nurses personally who really felt well by gesture people showed. And they aren't even having any bad feeling about 5April 9 mins black out. I personally am not fan of symbolism, I find it meh, whether showing respect for flag or standing up during national anthem, while I do it, because I don't think resisting it makes me cool. But if something makes many people happy, I don't think I have to stress about it.

 

[milemuncher777]

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Think BJP should stop beating around the bush and declare India as Hindu Rashtra. Would also be fitting if they do it during Pandemic.

 

[RedDevil@84]

Think BJP should stop beating around the bush and declare India as Hindu Rashtra

It is not that time...... yet.

 

[Sultan]

The country of my birth is in a state of flux. It's heartbreaking to see communalism and bigotry tearing the fabric of the country apart. I have stopped watching Indian news channels and this thread was my only avenue for news. However, even visiting this thread is not good for the state of my heart and mind. Various Chamber of commerce members in the UK of all persuasion and religions so this coming approximately 5 years back and stopped investing money since the arrival of this government. This is hurting India's reputation and in turn economy to a massive extent.

 

[milemuncher777]

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[Sultan]

It was embarrassing the way Modi hugged Trump like a beggar as if he was the saviour of India. India's proud heritage and reputation are going to the gutter. The debate just 10 years back was India being the next powerhouse of the world after China.

 

[AshRK]

It was embarrassing the way Modi hugged Trump like a beggar as if he was the saviour of India. India's proud heritage and reputation are going to the gutter. The debate just 10 years back was India being the next powerhouse of the world after China.

You mean 10 year back when congress were looting India with their corruption, 2g scam, commonwealth scam and name them. Not saying India are in a better position economically because they are not but let us also not rewrite history.

 

[RedTiger]

You mean 10 year back when congress were looting India with their corruption, 2g scam, commonwealth scam and name them. Not saying India are in a better position economically because they are not but let us also not rewrite history.

Sultan didn't say anything about congress nor was he condoning them. Sultan is saying that this administration is leading India down a slippery slope. There's no need to keep bringing up congress like trumpers keep bringing up democrats.

 

[AshRK]

Sultan didn't say anything about congress nor was he condoning them. Sultan is saying that this administration is leading India down a slippery slope. There's no need to keep bringing up congress like trumpers keep bringing up democrats.

The debate that india was going to be the next china 10 years back doesn't make sense is my point. What has that got to do with trump. And yes 10 years back congress were at the helm. And if you read my post properly I did say neither are bjp doing any good.

This whole thinking that India was a powerful growing country 10 years back but now are in gutters is bs. The hindu/muslim bs was going on much before bjp came into power. Which is why I said let us stop rewriting history ffs.

 

[Sultan]

You mean 10 year back when congress were looting India with their corruption, 2g scam, commonwealth scam and name them. Not saying India are in a better position economically because they are not but let us also not rewrite history.

I really don't care about Congress or BJP.

Communalism and division causes far more misery to the economy and the psyche of the nation than the scams carried out by government officials (I'm not condoning their actions).

 

[Sultan]

The hindu/muslim bs was going on much before bjp came into power. Which is why I said let us stop rewriting history ffs.

It was never this bad 10 years ago.

All news channels, politicians and general populations main subject is now agenda driven with a trickle of sane voices. I hope Cricket restarts soon so we have some other subject to keep Indians occupied.

 

[AshRK]

It was never this bad 10 years ago.

All news channels, politicians and general populations main subject is now agenda driven with a trickle of sane voices. I hope Cricket restarts soon so we have some other subject to keep Indians occupied.

This is why I try my best to avoid taking the media outlets seriously. I agree we miss cricket. The fact that this would have been the IPL season makes it even more frustrating.

 

[coolredwine]

If it was just mocking at them, which even I did, than it wouldn't be same. But mocking didn't stopped at their stupidity, it went to gaumutra, gobar, Ram Navmi and so on. Even Namaste was shamed.

Because all such things as 'cow piss and cow urine will save us' deserve to be mocked. As for 'Allah will save us from the virus', it is exactly the same as 'Jesus will save us' or 'Ram/Bhagwan will save us'.

And I can give you in writing, that given us most of us humans are dumbasses regardless of religion, during this Ram Navmi and Navratri season and 5April 2020 nautanki, you will have one group or another from Hindus doing something absolutely stupid and when the tables will be turned, it will be a vengeance filled posting from victim card players and the Muslims shamers will become victim card players. It is just a cycle.

Literally no one will go to such extent as below though:

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[coolredwine]

2g scam

Conspiracy theory funny how people still believe this.

The hindu/muslim bs was going on much before bjp came into power.

You have clearly forgotten India before 2014, bar the few headlines.

 

[VidaRed]

Conspiracy theory funny how people still believe this.

You have clearly forgotten India before 2014, bar the few headlines.

Facts are irrelevant and have been for some time.

 

[Foxbatt]

The debate that india was going to be the next china 10 years back doesn't make sense is my point. What has that got to do with trump. And yes 10 years back congress were at the helm. And if you read my post properly I did say neither are bjp doing any good.

This whole thinking that India was a powerful growing country 10 years back but now are in gutters is bs. The hindu/muslim bs was going on much before bjp came into power. Which is why I said let us stop rewriting history ffs.

Of course they were and politicians use it for their own gain. Who can forget the Gujarat massacres and the pathetic attempt by the State courts. Yes the Tabliq Jamaat is a menace not only in India but everywhere they are.

 

[Lord SInister]

Because all such things as 'cow piss and cow urine will save us' deserve to be mocked. As for 'Allah will save us from the virus', it is exactly the same as 'Jesus will save us' or 'Ram/Bhagwan will save us'.

Literally no one will go to such extent as below though:

Brother, do you read my posts properly or I am not articulate enough to put my thoughts in a comprehensive manner? I didn't said a thing against mocking those idiots who are advocating that cow urine or cow dung cures corona virus. I even said, I myself mocked those dumbasses. But the thing started when everytime you saw some Covidiots, people were saying, don't worry they will drink cow urine, so they are fine. That now is an attack on religion, that means even without verifying it was presumed all of these dumbasses were Hindus. I personally think, it is not really something I will complaint or try to make Hindus a victim of, because Stereotyping is an evil which isn't going to leave us so easily.



See my point in a single line, "what is happeneing is wrong, shouldn't be happening, but that shouldn't be used as a measure to judge the whole situation and because of idiots blame the whole country or community".

As for the posts you have shared, these are unfortunate situations and all parties involved should be punished duly, as bigots are showig their true colors. Plus Rahul Kanwal is not a man with any loyalty, he probably swings as more than Tom cruise, and India Today/Rahul Kanwal which was during CAA issue, anti-government, is now suddenly acting like pro.

 

[RedMachine03]

 

[amolbhatia50k]

I don't have any political affiliation with any political party , just want to state that before i get called out as BJP supporter. I have seen the terror unleashed by RJD and Congress while growing up, rampant corruption and blatant disregard for Constitutional values. Law and order machinery was reduced to joke with child kidnapping being made into an industry with support from the top political class. Dividing society on the basis of caste lines, using Yadav and Muslim vote combination to grab political power and providing next to nothing to other community. Political murders on the scale this country have never seen. Journalist integrity was non existent and who had even iota of integrity were eliminated. IAS officer was killed by mob led by political members of both Congress and RJD. The list goes on. This was India in the 90's. Same era in which congress was busy sabotaging every single government in Central and State level. Countless government were toppled by Congress and MLA and MP's horse trading was rampant. Using governors to topple elected government was perfected by Congress. Compare that to present government and you will hardly see any difference.

Coming to UPA, undermining the PMO was the biggest grab of power this country has ever seen. Using non government organization (close ties with Sonia Gandhi) with foreign links to determine policy (most recent reference i can find for this is Tavleen Singh interview with Barkha, will link it if you want) and severely undermining Manmohan Singh government can be described as no less than butchery of Indian constitution. None of these were even properly reported by the same class of journalist who are now crying about fascism and authoritarian nature of BJP. Cases of corruption is well known in UPA 2. Former CJI have been appointed as Rajya Sabha members by Congress also. 1986 ordinance to overturn SC rule to appease to Muslim personal law board by Rajiv Gandhi was the beginning of this confrontation but hardly gets mentioned in press. India is the only secular country in the world which allows Polygamy for Muslims (which is an absolute joke). Article 370 and Article 35A ensured Valmiki population (Dalits if people don't know who they are) to remain backward and marginalized in Kashmir for generation. How many articles were actually written about the plight of these people by the same journalist who cry about Dalit oppression now (which is ironic as getting above 50% vote in UP in general election cannot happen without significant dalit votes) ? I will ask just a simple question, do you remember who was Bihar CM when Bhagalpur riots happened in Bihar? Everyone in the world know who was in power in Gujrat in 2002.

Do i believe present BJP government is innocent when it comes to Minority affairs? No absolutely not. The environment today is partly because of BJP. But are they the only villain in this? I don't agree with that. They are no worse than other political party when it comes to divisive, fascism and authoritarian policy. Its just that their act is not as subtle as others and also do not have the backing of the elite journalist class based in Delhi. That is why i believe it has been blown way out of proportion. Foreign press has been equally guilty in misreporting facts.

Point what i am making is the way you described this government is exactly what we have been getting all these years. We can agree to disagree on that. I just don't agree with selective amnesia when it comes to other political party nor i agree it is worse for any community than what it always was. Although i do agree that a sense of alienation has increased in Muslims and i do believe present government is responsible for that.

I wouldn't really bother with defending the Congress considering I don't support them or think much of them either (in the modern avatar). And know they have many ghosts in their closet as well. Going into 3 decade back issues is pointless given I can only speak of the political climate I've witnessed in this country myself. For every murderous Congress goon there will be a rapist BJP one like we've recently seen (who the party entertained despite the accusations), and I'm sure me compiling a 200 word fact sheet of BJPs failings (see the corruption cases that saw them kicked out pre UPA) would be fine and dandy but wouldn't hit at the point I'm getting at.

Which is clear is that over the last 30 years, I've not seen a central government /leadership that is as fascist, authoritarian, bigoted etc as this one. I mean, you're pretty much trotting out the BJP party line - elite media bad, foreign media biased etc.

• Look at the state of the media. There's a reason why the phrase Godi media exists. Most of them merely exist to serve the centre and puppet their agenda into the minds of the public every night. I've not witnessed this level of control over the media.
• What is that agenda? Hindu Muslim. Ram Ayodhya. India Pakistan. Incredible Modi. It's like Mutv for the BJP, really. Again, I've not seen this before. We had rubbish TV before and the odd case I'm sure of biased TV. But a collective loss of their balls? Nope.
• And forget TV, there's been a rampant increase in hatred towards minorities. It's on WhatsApp, it's in the fake news game, it's now in our living rooms. I'm grateful that while growing up I didn't have to witness relatives damning "those Muslims...". But now I have to and I'm most definitely not grateful for it. Nor am I grateful I have to listen to another relative call them "dirty uneducated people who keep having children and nothing else". This is a societal change and it's clear to anyone who is watching.
• Then there's the Hindu fear mongering which is pretty incredible. Again not seen it before. The majority made to feel like they've been wronged by India for 70 years.
• Puppeteering of other institutions. May have happened in the 80s/early 90s. Don't know. Haven't seen it as much as this since I have been following.
• Hindu Rashtra. Hindutva. Politics and the agenda of one religion (and especially it's fanatical side) intertwined with the state. Again, if you feel this is par for course then that's your perogative. I don't. And I think any intelligent and mature nation shouldn't. We are clearly not there yet.
• And I haven't even gone into CAA/NRC, the Ram Mandir issue, Electoral Bonds, and their butchering of the Indian economy.

At the end of the day we clearly disagree. I see the BJP in its modern Shah-Modi format as a threat to India's ideals. Do I believe that Congress, on the other hand, would take us on the path to glory of course not? While I think Congress without the Gandhi's (what is that even given they have it by the neck) could be a less dangerous alternative, I'd prefer something more robust, more modern and more morally tuned in. But I don't see that happening anytime soon and this is sadly what we are stuck with.

 

[RedDevil@84]

I wouldn't really bother with defending the Congress considering I don't support them or think much of them either (in the modern avatar). And know they have many ghosts in their closet as well. Going into 3 decade back issues is pointless given I can only speak of the political climate I've witnessed in this country myself. For every murderous Congress goon there will be a rapist BJP one like we've recently seen (who the party entertained despite the accusations), and I'm sure me compiling a 200 word fact sheet of BJPs failings (see the corruption cases that saw them kicked out pre UPA) would be fine and dandy but wouldn't hit at the point I'm getting at.

Which is clear is that over the last 30 years, I've not seen a central government /leadership that is as fascist, authoritarian, bigoted etc as this one. I mean, you're pretty much trotting out the BJP party line - elite media bad, foreign media biased etc.

• Look at the state of the media. There's a reason why the phrase Godi media exists. Most of them merely exist to serve the centre and puppet their agenda into the minds of the public every night. I've not witnessed this level of control over the media.
• What is that agenda? Hindu Muslim. Ram Ayodhya. India Pakistan. Incredible Modi. It's like Mutv for the BJP, really. Again, I've not seen this before. We had rubbish TV before and the odd case I'm sure of biased TV. But a collective loss of their balls? Nope.
• And forget TV, there's been a rampant increase in hatred towards minorities. It's on WhatsApp, it's in the fake news game, it's now in our living rooms. I'm grateful that while growing up I didn't have to witness relatives damning "those Muslims...". But now I have to and I'm most definitely not grateful for it. Nor am I grateful I have to listen to another relative call them "dirty uneducated people who keep having children and nothing else". This is a societal change and it's clear to anyone who is watching.
• Then there's the Hindu fear mongering which is pretty incredible. Again not seen it before. The majority made to feel like they've been wronged by India for 70 years.
• Puppeteering of other institutions. May have happened in the 80s/early 90s. Don't know. Haven't seen it as much as this since I have been following.
• Hindu Rashtra. Hindutva. Politics and the agenda of one religion (and especially it's fanatical side) intertwined with the state. Again, if you feel this is par for course then that's your perogative. I don't. And I think any intelligent and mature nation shouldn't. We are clearly not there yet.
• And I haven't even gone into CAA/NRC, the Ram Mandir issue, Electoral Bonds, and their butchering of the Indian economy.

At the end of the day we clearly disagree. I see the BJP in its modern Shah-Modi format as a threat to India's ideals. Do I believe that Congress, on the other hand, would take us on the path to glory of course not? While I think Congress without the Gandhi's (what is that even given they have it by the neck) could be a less dangerous alternative, I'd prefer something more robust, more modern and more morally tuned in. But I don't see that happening anytime soon and this is sadly what we are stuck with.

I pretty much second all of that. Thanks for taking the pains to spell it out

 

[Lord SInister]

Off topic, but what a legend

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[Sultan]

@amolbhatia50k

Brilliant post, bhai.

 

[MDFC Manager]

@Sultan isn't travel forbidden in Islam during times of epidemics?

I guess this TJ fiasco could well have been avoided if the foreign pilgrims (?) never came in.

 

[milemuncher777]

@Sultan isn't travel forbidden in Islam during times of epidemics?

I guess this TJ fiasco could well have been avoided if the foreign pilgrims (?) never came in.

The Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) said:


“If you hear of an outbreak of plague in a land, do not enter it; but if the plague breaks out in a place while you are in it, do not leave that place.” (Reported by Bukhari and Muslim.)