I must have missed this. Is it a common practice for the courts to "attach" property suo motu? If not, then I can see their lawyers appeal that decision.
India vs Pakistan thread
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Nope it's not. The lawyers will also appeal the conviction.
Yes, the conviction can be appealed - that is how the judicial system is designed. The only piece that came as a surprise to me was the whole "attaching property" bit. Never heard that was a thing
Ah, so its not suo motu then
So why haven't they been labelled as anti-nationals by the bjp yet
Thanks for explaining.
Wow - that's genius. Kudos to the judge at the high Court for his/her innovative thinking.
This case involving Ram Rahim is strictly between himself and involved parties and the relevant proceedings, and his only affiliation with Sikhi is his background. False Prophets presenting themselves as a 'Guru' for Sikhs to follow is nothing new, and has been prevalent all the way from the time of the actual Living Gurus themselves. However this guy has tried to present himself as an independent Guru, and is reaching to all religions. Notice how he refers to himself as Gurmeet-Ram-Rahim. That name is a combination: Sikh - Hindu - Muslim. The "Dera Saucha Sauda" (DSS) symbol is basically an abhorrent amalgamation of various religious symbols. This guy is acting to gain power and for his ego, not for a particular religious purpose.
However the Sikh 'Kaum', or community has failed not Singh himself, but the followers he has amassed. To be more precise the supposed elimination of the caste system has been overridden by the now mainstream castes (Jat in particular). It's almost as if Sikhi is becoming synonymous with certain castes. This has created a threshold whereby certain castes are shunned by the Sikh community at large, and has even led to the establishment of Gurdwaras (Sikh Temples) bearing names of certain castes. Indeed if you look at the community this 'cult' has constructed - the vast majority are people of whom were in poverty and/or dire straights when approached by the DSS. These people are offered 'hope' and desperate situations leads them to follow their new 'Guru' for whatever purpose they've been promised. Over a longer period of time, they are conditioned to revere this guy as a deity. In the Islam thread, someone made a good point about Sikhism being an ethnocentric religion in the context of a wider point about the need for a belonging to a community. This is exactly what Ram Rahim promises to his followers, and unfortunately Indians are still a very superstitious people, which makes it much easier to manipulate them.
Sikhi (in India anyway) has failed to accommodate the supposed "lower castes" but instead established a new hierarchy and those who are now Dalits are pushed straight into the arms of Pakhandi Babas such as Ram. Thankfully it does seem the Sikh authority has shunned the guy himself, but it's a wake up call for the Akal Takht and other supposed higher authorities about the issues facing the community. Of course it's not all down to Sikhi, as not all followers are Sikhs (it's just his first few were before his movement gained traction). In fact it isn't actually directly Sikhi's fault either - it's just how indirectly an environment has been created for these types of communities to arise. Something Sikhs should be doing it's utmost to eliminate. I suspect this is not the end between Ram Rahim's encounters with what's left of Pro-Khalistan factions but I hope for the sake of his followers (most of whom are innocent but heavily misguided) his influence will quickly wane. Again as it is, the case of rape is strictly between the "Godman" and the state.
However the Sikh 'Kaum', or community has failed not Singh himself, but the followers he has amassed. To be more precise the supposed elimination of the caste system has been overridden by the now mainstream castes (Jat in particular). It's almost as if Sikhi is becoming synonymous with certain castes. This has created a threshold whereby certain castes are shunned by the Sikh community at large, and has even led to the establishment of Gurdwaras (Sikh Temples) bearing names of certain castes. Indeed if you look at the community this 'cult' has constructed - the vast majority are people of whom were in poverty and/or dire straights when approached by the DSS. These people are offered 'hope' and desperate situations leads them to follow their new 'Guru' for whatever purpose they've been promised. Over a longer period of time, they are conditioned to revere this guy as a deity. In the Islam thread, someone made a good point about Sikhism being an ethnocentric religion in the context of a wider point about the need for a belonging to a community. This is exactly what Ram Rahim promises to his followers, and unfortunately Indians are still a very superstitious people, which makes it much easier to manipulate them.
Sikhi (in India anyway) has failed to accommodate the supposed "lower castes" but instead established a new hierarchy and those who are now Dalits are pushed straight into the arms of Pakhandi Babas such as Ram. Thankfully it does seem the Sikh authority has shunned the guy himself, but it's a wake up call for the Akal Takht and other supposed higher authorities about the issues facing the community. Of course it's not all down to Sikhi, as not all followers are Sikhs (it's just his first few were before his movement gained traction). In fact it isn't actually directly Sikhi's fault either - it's just how indirectly an environment has been created for these types of communities to arise. Something Sikhs should be doing it's utmost to eliminate. I suspect this is not the end between Ram Rahim's encounters with what's left of Pro-Khalistan factions but I hope for the sake of his followers (most of whom are innocent but heavily misguided) his influence will quickly wane. Again as it is, the case of rape is strictly between the "Godman" and the state.
Had a flight from delhi (i am from punjab) to mumbai today and looks like i will have to cancel. In rural areas where most of his followers are, the conditions are bad, some places where there are no reporters, people are destroying public property and there is no police. Most of his followers seem to be uneducated idiots. Its hard to believe he has so many fecking women on his side. They simply outnumber the men easily. I think it will be tense especially in Bathinda where rumours of agitation are increasing.
It's almost always women who believe these fake holy men illusionists. If you go to a Muslim saints mazhar-sharif, women always outnumber men, even in the west it's majority women who believe horoscopes and psychics.
I can't believe he had about 109 women as his personal assistants 
Dear Leader Kim doesn't have that amount of entourage.
Dear Leader Kim doesn't have that amount of entourage.This godman, that baba, etc. People are becoming mindless sheep. Ancient India was a place of logical thinking and intellectual reasoning, its' a pity most people have forgotten it. Blind faith of any form is not only stupid, but also destructive.
Had a great opportunity to give him a harsher punishment. 7 years seems a small punishment.
There's an amazing film called PK.. People should watch that.
Patriarchal religions restrict women's direct access to God, maybe that's why they follow alternative routes ?
Whats the reason for that?
I don't know bro
But from my own anecdotal observations I'd say women regardless of ethnicity and creed tend to be superstitious.Ho do you restrict access to an all knowing and all seeing God?
If women in the communities you're thinking of tend to be more illiterate than men, than that is one explanation, since by necessity they require some form of mediation in order to engage with their faith.I don't know bro
I doubt it. I've known many women even in my own family, graduates and all follow some baba or other. It's not a science vs religion debate for them. Educated and religious is the norm.
Hc should just make a example and sack the dgp and maybe even recommend Presidents rule.
After Baba rampal and then jat agitations this is just ridiculous to again wilfully allow this. People should be tried criminally for causing death due to negligence.
After Baba rampal and then jat agitations this is just ridiculous to again wilfully allow this. People should be tried criminally for causing death due to negligence.
Great thread. I'm still waiting for an Indian food thread.
Indeed. I know plenty of educated and well-off people visiting these baba's.
What were the Jat agitations i've seen you guys mention?
Jats are a middle caste, involved in farming, and unlike lower castes they hold land.* In parts of Western UP and Haryana, they are the politically dominant group. However, many young Jats do not see a future in farming, especially after seeing their neighbours get rich when the expansion of Delhi (Gurgaon) meant their farmland was bought at high prices for building new apartments. Many of them were born rich enough to go to college, but the job market for most degree-holders sucks (and so does the quality of most degrees).
So, they are agitating for reservations. Reservations in college admission and govt jobs were started for SCs (Dalits) and STs (Tribes) after independence. In ~1990 they were expanded to OBCs (Other Backward Class) after a report (Mandal Commission) showing the lack of representation of these groups in govt jobs. Of course this has led to mass unrest among the castes above them.
With slowing job growth, protests started by these intermediate but politically strong castes - Marathas in Maharashtra (measuring it politically, every CM of Maharashtra has been a Maratha from the 60s till 2014), Patels in Gujarat, and Jats in Haryana, demanding reservation as part of OBC category.
In the Jat agitation in Haryana, Jats rioted, and did extensive damage to railways and other property for several days. To measure how strong these groups are, consider that they attacked the police and sitting MPs, which for weaker groups usually means police firing and death. The govt formed a committee to look at including them as OBCs, which ended that violence more or less. 12 people died. Same happened (I think with less violence) with Marathas, it ended after an assurance from the CM that he will implement the changes. Patels had a long violent agitation, their leader is now in jail, I am not sure how it was ended (probably they have a committee too).
*This is my impression, I could be wrong.
What's with the sexist tone in this thread. Even if there are more women followers of this guru. So what. Labelling them superstitious and uneducated etc is discriminatory and a deviation from the actual story.
PK is as blind in its' criticisms as people are in their faith. Not the best example.
I also found it mighty prejudiced anyway as it targeted only one religion.
Statistically likely, but there are other factors too I think.
That's a selective way of looking at things.
Very much so. So were the Greeks, Aztecs, my home country of Sri Lanka etc
Regardless, this has been a good week for passing the right judgements.
It is also important to understand why these fake godmen garner such huge amount of support in the first place. It is the failure of the state which leads to a great no. of people especially from the lower social economic ranks who lean on these self styled Godmen for different needs.
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A big victory for the strength of the judicial system and the victims of the crime, and an equally big loss of credibility for the administration/political establishment.
But not an untruth. The important thing is, nothing was accepted on faith and everything was subject to debate. Personal opinions/experiences/unexplained faith in a book or guru were not acceptable as authority. Unlike today where rationality is shunned for superstition.
What relevance does it have to India? In any case, unlike the Greeks and Aztecs, the Indian traditions are not yet dead but still being practiced, albeit in a minority. Not to mention the vast differences in philosophy.
But ok, we have the religion/philosophy threads for that. No more here.
It's not just that the politicians watch as it unfolds, they clearly play a big role in the lunatic bangwagon gaining momentum. Modi himself has praised the rapist when he was already an accused. Heck, the BJP sent their MPs for blessings to him before the Haryana elections. And I don't doubt the other parties haven't done similar things. The whole thing is a farce.
I don't know whether it's the case, but I wouldn't be surprised if this is a clever way for politicians to orchestrate the creation of a vote bank which can then be bought.
Have no idea but in case of SRRI i think its uneducated women who have nothing to do and this is an out for them.
They let the SRRI have sex with them as they think it will make them pure, his logic is that Lord krishna did the same with his gopiyan. Humans are stupid, we are fecking stupid cnuts. feck everything, really pissed off as it has resulted in soi much loss to the community and a rapist is being worshipped and the govt isnt against him. That idiot sakshi maharaj too what a scam these guys are running. Every one with some vote bank is being protected by the govt, what a fecked up country we live in. feck.
Not really, there is a good sequence where he joins every religion before realising there was a "wrong number" problem in all of them.PK is as blind in its' criticisms as people are in their faith. Not the best example.
I also found it mighty prejudiced anyway as it targeted only one religion.
For example, the scene where he Muslims would suggest he hurts himself with that bendy metal sword, or rolls down the hard floor loads of times for no reason. How one religion suggests to sacrifice animals and another suggests not to eat animals. How one religion says not to do something on a certain day and another suggests not to do anything on another.
Also whilst I don't want to make a sweeping statement, I would be curious to know which religion is most responsible for having false idol representations of God on earth. Id think it's Hinduism in India, as Christians mainly follow the pope and that's about it and Muslims never believe in a representation of Allah or Mohammed being on earth today? That's probably why PK honed in on "Hindu" sects specifically claiming to have Gurus closer to God than anyone else.
My problem with PK is that it is not criticising the belief in god, but rather is selectively demonising the methods followed by the masses to worship said god.
For example, if the film had said "God is a myth, so stop following superstitions", it would have been an acceptable satire. However, it criticises idol worship while insinuating that a god beyond all description and form, common to all religions, can likely exist. If idol worship is false, on what grounds is the latter argument true when one of the religions considers idols to be gods?
How can you say that regarding the Pope, a human being, as a mediatrix to god is more rational than worshipping an idol? Why is the Pope better than any other godman revered (apart from the fact that the Pope is not of course, a criminal like these godmen)? You can condemn both of course, but saying idols are more false representations than Pope seems selective.
Instead of a whole sale condemnation of religion and god, it merely criticises specific religious practices. In that respect, I enjoyed the recent "Toilet Ek Prem Katha" as a more rational and level-headed form of social satire.
I do agree with what you are saying. In that regards found 'Oh my God' much better. PK seemed a more commercial version of the same storyline
Great post.
As @anant said that Oh my god did a much better job of getting the message across. Having said that, we're going off topic here. This is not an entertainment forum.
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How many female Popes, Grand Muftis, Imams, Gurus, Dalai Lamas, archbishops, priests etc do you know of ? Certainly the Romans and Greeks had Goddesses in their pantheon and some protestant churches have female vicars etc but that's very recent. So the question is - who mediates between God and people ? That's the person who decides who learns the scriptures and so on.
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