Individual Brilliance vs Pattern of play

meamth

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It's getting out of control now. Ole haters are getting annoying with these "pattern of play" term.

In which part of football history, a team without individual brilliance bring success to the club?

What is this nonsense?

Elaborate, and fight.
 

Andycoleno9

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You need both to win something. We have one. With both you win stuff, with one you can win games but not titles.
 

charlenefan

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tbh not since Beckham crossing from the right onto Yorke/Ruud's head can I think of a goal that you'd think that's a typical United goal

City obviously have the tap ins which have become synonymous with them, Liverpool with the crosses from the FB's, Arsenal back in the day with the attacks from their left side but they're all pretty specific to one 'generation' of team

We're the leagues top scorers, last season MMM out scored the so called best front 3 in the world, whatever we're doing seems to be working fine and yet we all know we still need a better CF and RW
 

RUCK4444

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It’s absolute boll@x.

Patterns of play creates goals, we have scored more goals than anybody in the league, so we have patterns of play as much as anybody.

Slow starts and conceding goals doesn’t mean you have no patterns of play.
 

mancan92

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You need both to win something. We have one. With both you win stuff, with one you can win games but not titles.
Yep only team I can think of that win things without a pattern of play was original golatico real Madrid team of the early 2000s but that's because their team on paper was absolutely ridiculous. When your left back can also be a match winner you can win based on things with individual brilliance.
 

Andycoleno9

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Tbf, some of us are maybe too harsh towards Ole. We have both because stay back and wait for counter attacks where two players will do something IS pattern of play.
 

meamth

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Yep only team I can think of that win things without a pattern of play was original golatico real Madrid team of the early 2000s but that's because their team on paper was absolutely ridiculous. When your left back can also be a match winner you can win based on things with individual brilliance.
Another team...might be Greece 2004?
 

spiriticon

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The funny thing is that we do have a pattern of play. It's called 'counter attacking at pace'. You see it every match like regular clockwork.

Just because it's not what all fans want or like, it doesn't mean we play without a plan
 

sullydnl

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This says otherwise.
That would seem to suggest that Man City are worse both in terms of defence and offence than us, Liverpool and Chelsea? Which in turn suggests it's a very flawed way of analysing those teams given they're clearly not.
 

Mainoldo

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There’s good football and there’s bad football. I think it’s that simple.

Pep = Good
Jose = Bad

Klopp = Good
Ole = Bad.

It’s doesn’t have to be down to one certain style as all managers deliver a different brand of football.
 

RUCK4444

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There’s good football and there’s bad football. I think it’s that simple.

Pep = Good
Jose = Bad

Klopp = Good
Ole = Bad.

It’s doesn’t have to be down to one certain style as all managers deliver a different brand of football.
How can the team that scores the most goals in the league be ‘bad football’?

This is just another make believe stick to bash Ole with.

I can understand some get frustrated by our conceding goals but entertainment wise we are much better than anything we’ve had since SAF.
 

meamth

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Greece had a clear pattern of play. Its called Park the bus and hope for a set piece
I misread your post. My bad.

Yeah. Most of the great teams are hoping for individual brilliance to deliver.

You put Messi in your team, "There you go son, win us the game. Iniesta! Xavi! Make sure you give the ball to Messi! otherwise you look like Leon Britton and Joe Allen for Swansea."
 

meamth

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There’s good football and there’s bad football. I think it’s that simple.

Pep = Good
Jose = Bad

Klopp = Good
Ole = Bad.

It’s doesn’t have to be down to one certain style as all managers deliver a different brand of football.
Must be trolling, Klopp can't even win in 6 home games. Atrocious football!

EDIT:
In all seriousness, Liverpool is the prime example that pattern of play means feck all.

You can be Swansea, Stoke, Leeds, whatever, but if the players didn't deliver, its going to be a failure.

Over the years, Fergie relied on individual brilliance too. Ronaldo for example, Bald Rooney, RVP, the list goes on. We played shit football in odd games even in those era.
 

Smores

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We have consistent patterns as individuals. We don't have consistent patterns of teamwork and i don't see how anyone thinks we do.

Cavani coming in has started to develop some because a target man will always do that. Beyond that we barely have movement never mind players knowing the runs others will make.
 

Mainoldo

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How can the team that scores the most goals in the league be ‘bad football’?

This is just another make believe stick to bash Ole with.

I can understand some get frustrated by our conceding goals but entertainment wise we are much better than anything we’ve had since SAF.
Jose Mourinho I’m sure you’d agree always played bad football?

He’s had top scoring teams. So it is very possible.
 

Mainoldo

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Must be trolling, Klopp can't even win in 6 home games. Atrocious football!

EDIT:
In all seriousness, Liverpool is the prime example that pattern of play means feck all.

You can be Swansea, Stoke, Leeds, whatever, but if the players didn't deliver, its going to be a failure.

Over the years, Fergie relied on individual brilliance too. Ronaldo for example, Bald Rooney, RVP, the list goes on. We played shit football in odd games even in those era.
Yeah but this is what I’m saying. Who cares about systems and individual brilliance. We just want to see good football.
 

pascell

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Patterns of play can be figured out easily and quickly if they're not the greatest of patterns.

You also need WC players in your team who have that bit of brilliance to win you games, when patterns of play are being shut out easily.
 

Norman Brownbutter

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It’s absolute boll@x.

Patterns of play creates goals, we have scored more goals than anybody in the league, so we have patterns of play as much as anybody.

Slow starts and conceding goals doesn’t mean you have no patterns of play.
So what is our pattern of play?
 

Halftrack

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The first one is what everything good that happens under Ole is attributed to, the second one is everything we don't do.
Tbf, some of us are maybe too harsh towards Ole. We have both because stay back and wait for counter attacks where two players will do something IS pattern of play.
I get being critical, but why be such a petty little shit? We very clearly don't sit back and rely on counters, we try to win the ball and quickly transition, regardless of where on the pitch we get it. Yes, this sometimes takes the form of a counter attack, but we spend most games having the most possession. Teams that rely on counter attacking generally don't like having a lot of possessions, because when you have the ball the other team can't attack and give you the opportunity to counter.

Then again, you are the source of some of the most classless and shitty posts about Ole on this forum, so this is par for the course I guess.
Jose Mourinho I’m sure you’d agree always played bad football?

He’s had top scoring teams. So it is very possible.
I don't think anyone would agree with that.
 

Norman Brownbutter

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Jose Mourinho I’m sure you’d agree always played bad football?

He’s had top scoring teams. So it is very possible.
No one should agree with that. His old Chelsea teams played amazing stuff for example. Its only really been since his Madrid days that hes been meh.
 

Zlatan 7

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Yeah but this is what I’m saying. Who cares about systems and individual brilliance. We just want to see good football.
Out of interest what team would you like to play the exact same style as so it’s good football? Give me an idea of what you think good football is
 

Berbasbullet

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Are we the only forum that bang on about “patterns of play” or do other forums do it too? Genuine question.
 

Kag

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We have consistent patterns as individuals. We don't have consistent patterns of teamwork and i don't see how anyone thinks we do.

Cavani coming in has started to develop some because a target man will always do that. Beyond that we barely have movement never mind players knowing the runs others will make.
They use their eyes.

The team presses high during sections of most games and looks to dominate the ball in most matches. This is clearly under instruction. When the team wins the ball back, it breaks at pace and midfielders aim to get the ball into the space between the full backs and defenders. This is how Rashford, and particularly Bruno when he makes runs beyond the striker, get into so many goal scoring positions. Shaw, Rashford and Bruno have great working relationships, as do Fred and McTominay.

The quality of the goals we score has improved significantly under Ole and this is because movement has improved and emphasis has been put on scoring goals. This is with attacking players who still aren’t quite up to it as a collective.

Begs the question what you’re watching, frankly.
 

Mainoldo

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Out of interest what team would you like to play the exact same style as so it’s good football? Give me an idea of what you think good football is
Liverpool, Leicester, City, Everton, Southampton, Leeds, Chelsea(Tookal’s), Villa, Brighton, Fulham.
 

Kag

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Are we the only forum that bang on about “patterns of play” or do other forums do it too? Genuine question.
This sort of arseholery has been inflicted on many a fan base, sadly.

I mean, it’s obvious when managers clearly do sod all work towards getting a team to attack: see any team managed by Mourinho in recent years. But the current suggestion that our players haven’t got a scooby as to what they’re doing simply flies against all available evidence.
 

Berbasbullet

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This sort of arseholery has been inflicted on many a fan base, sadly.

I mean, it’s obvious when managers clearly do sod all work towards getting a team to attack: see any team managed by Mourinho in recent years. But the current suggestion that our players haven’t got a scooby as to what they’re doing simply flies against all available evidence.
Aaah at least it isn’t just us suffering then. :lol:
 

Foxbatt

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Control, pass, move. We rarely do that. The first goal we scored against Newcastle. We moved without any aim until it got to Rashford. Then he beat his man and scored at the near post. That's individual brilliant play.
Yesterday Brighton against Palace was how pattern of play or teamwork. Yes they lost because they didn't have anyone with quality to put the ball in the net. They lost.
With United everyone knows it's going to be a counter attack and it's going to come from the wings or full backs, which means from the flanks normally.
Dion Dublin was saying that SAF never coached later at United. He was always aware of what is going on and decides the team etc but he let the coaches do it. He also said they were top class coaches.
I would say in that aspect Ole is very good in man management. Where I have issues is with his coaching staff.
 

TwoSheds

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There’s good football and there’s bad football. I think it’s that simple.

Pep = Good
Jose = Bad

Klopp = Good
Ole = Bad.

It’s doesn’t have to be down to one certain style as all managers deliver a different brand of football.
As if Klopp's style is good, kick and rush trash a lot of the time. And this year it's just been slow and not much else :lol:
 

Kag

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Liverpool, Leicester, City, Everton, Southampton, Leeds, Chelsea(Tookal’s), Villa, Brighton, Fulham.
I’d be impressed if you’ve watched Fulham and Brighton more than once this season. I especially enjoy the way you are nominating sides that haven’t been able to hit a cow’s arse with a banjo for over a year, as well as teams we have recently blown away to the tune of about twenty goals.

Patterns of play are obviously brilliant, mind you. Such patterns.
 

RUCK4444

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Jose Mourinho I’m sure you’d agree always played bad football?

He’s had top scoring teams. So it is very possible.
The only time he had top scoring teams was when he had the best teams in those respective leagues iirc. His first stint at Chelsea and Madrid?