Individual Brilliance vs Pattern of play

[Mainoldo]

I love counter-attacks. Its what I've been raised on.

I do think we should improve a lot in how we break down a side defending for their life, but that is hard for any team bar the very best both in coaching and personnel. I also believe we need a few upgrades in the squad and first eleven for that to be something we can be great at.

On top of that our defense is not performing. But I'd rather watch us score the most goal in the league and get top 4 than having the least goals against an get top 4.

Patterns of play to break down defensive opposition is really great to watch when it works, but can have a Benny Hill theme thrown over it when it doesn't.

You ever have ambitions of us winning the league?

 

[Ødegaard]

You ever have ambitions of us winning the league?

Always.

 

[romufc]

Our pattern of play is winning penalties for Bruno

Looks like that pattern of play is the same for Chelsea, Leicester and City.

 

[Theo Cherry]

Mourinho: ''Principles of play''

Ole: ''Yes..counter lads...COUNTER!''



...

Midfield press
Quick counters
Rashy's off-the-ball runs

 

[romufc]

I too like quite a few on here don't understand what fans mean by patterns of play. If you have set patterns of play, its much easier for opponents to stop you, after 5/10 games everyone will work our pattern of play out and stop it.

I think the issue is we have no style of play. If you look at City, their style remains the same when they lose, win or even change system.

We know watching City, they will pass pass pass, move move move. With us, its almost like what United will turn up?

Regarding patterns finally, we have seen alot of similar goals this season so there is something there.

 

[Leftback99]

Basically it's just another way of people saying they want us to play like Man City. No shame in saying it, they are a top team with a distinctive style.

As for anyone quoting teams like Everton as showing the patterns of play we should be striving for please give us some examples. I'm no expert so I'd like to understand what I'm looking for from all those who are.

 

[Tom Van Persie]

Our pattern of play is winning penalties for Bruno

You need to watch more games.

 

[Mickson]

This. The only thing to question in our attack is the poor finishing.

Mate, we are the most effective team in the league.

I think it's fascinating this, the majority think that....just the best players win? And the manager has no significant influence? The pattern of play doesn't exist?

 

[Berbasbullet]

Looks like that pattern of play is the same for Chelsea, Leicester and City.

Man Bruno really gets around!

 

[jackal&hyde]

Mate, we are the most effective team in the league.

I think it's fascinating this, the majority think that....just the best players win? And the manager has no significant influence? The pattern of play doesn't exist?

In the medium and long term, 99% of the time yes.

 

[Borys]

I find this thread very interesting, reading how differently people understand football. My personnal opinion is we're a team which relies heavily on Bruno, Rashford et al. doing "something out of nothing". I share this views:

As a benchmark, Leeds is a team full of average players + B+ striker, and manage to win by movement and constant running. Kind of predictable perhaps but enough to wear down any weary opposition.

Where was our little 2-1, running behind defenders, overloading 1 side and exploit another. Counter-attack is useful, possibly 1 of the few tools for a bottom club, but we need tactics that can break down a bus.

I don't think anyone here wants our individuals to be less brilliant. It's an odd take away from a particular line of thought - which is that less reliance of individual moments, and more on consistent collective peformances coupled with individual quality, is better. Seems an obvious thing to prefer.

I thought this was obvious, but reading through those posts it certainly seems like if we invest time and energy into coaching and better team play, it will somehow make our star players less brilliant. When in reality it's exactly the opposite.

On the other side there are people who see no problem because we are top scorers in the league and they consider this as a proof we must have patterns of play.

We are top scorers in the league.

Ole must be GOAT if we have so many problems and still in 2nd place,

I think Ole has some very good players at his disposal. I remember last years under Ferguson I was thinking "how is he winning with this squad". IMO we have really really good team right now.
We're 2nd but closer to 7th place than to 1st, and already out of CL and Carabao Cup, so it's not like we should be celebrating this season success.

I agree with you, that just because some of us aren't able to identify or appreciate the patterns, doesn't mean we don't have any.
Perhaps I should've worded my post better, I meant to say that, once we upgrade on some positions and some of our young players develop, when we won't need two DMs to protect the defense, the patterns will be largely visible for everyone to see.
Getting the maximum end product from Bruno IS a pattern, we haven't scored 53 goals without pattern.

This is an opinion I completely disagree with. We are not upgrading on every 2-3 players every season because they turn out not good enough. It's manager and his coaching staff job to find a way to make them play better as a collective. Are we improving? Yes. Are we a well coached team? No. But we are scoring a lot of goals which are very often down to individual brilliance and you can see how it hurts us when Bruno is out of form or Pogba out. Also, we've been winning by 1 goal more often than not this season so it's not like we're free-scoring team.

This. No doubt Ole gives the players much more freedom and responsibility than some other coaches, but is that nesscarily a bad thing?

We were thoroughly drilled under Van Gaal with patterns gallore, but do people really miss that shite?

I think it's a bad thing for a couple of reasons:
1) top teams never really play free flowing football. They actually have patterns of play, even if they exchange positions player take up different role. Peak Barca, Bayern, current City do that on highest lever. From what I've seen this season Leipzig and Brighton do that quite well - they just don't have the players to pull this off against top teams. Hardly a reason to discredit their style of play.
2) if Ole tell front players to enjoy themselves, it makes me wonder why the hell we need coaching staff in general?

We also have much much better squad than under van Gaal.

I do like Leipzig style of play but is it suitable in the premier league to win a title? I mean we did hammer them 5-0 so I expect other teams can take points off them too

Why not? We hammered them 5-0 but on the other occasion when it really mattered we couldn't get a point. They play very good football without having many spectacular players (that we have).

I too like quite a few on here don't understand what fans mean by patterns of play. If you have set patterns of play, its much easier for opponents to stop you, after 5/10 games everyone will work our pattern of play out and stop it.

I think the issue is we have no style of play. If you look at City, their style remains the same when they lose, win or even change system.

We know watching City, they will pass pass pass, move move move. With us, its almost like what United will turn up?

Regarding patterns finally, we have seen alot of similar goals this season so there is something there.

This is interesting and I'd say a good way to describe pattern of play, but I don't know what specifically you have in mind?

 

[Oranges038]

For me style is more important than patterns, look how easily teams have figure out Liverpool's patterns of play. Man City were in the same boat a couple of years ago and Pep changed it up, it works well in the PL because he has better players than other teams but in Europe better teams with better players are able to stop them. It looks pretty passing the ball over and back and having 70% possession and all that but for me I don't enjoy watching it because I find it repetitive and boring to an extent. One of the reasons I found his Barca team hard to watch.

I think you can have a style that allows individuals to flourish, from what I remember Utd did this with Cantona in the 90s. Now you can see the same with Bruno and Rashford. The problem with this Utd team is that we don't which team is going to show up because as a team the overall performance levels are still very inconsistent and too many players make simple mistakes to allow the opposition to score.

 

[roonster09]

I think Ole has some very good players at his disposal. I remember last years under Ferguson I was thinking "how is he winning with this squad". IMO we have really really good team right now.
We're 2nd but closer to 7th place than to 1st, and already out of CL and Carabao Cup, so it's not like we should be celebrating this season success.

I'm not celebrating, I didn't even say Ole is doing good job. Check the post I replied to, someone who never watched ManUtd would think we have League 2 quality players going by the post I replied to. We have very good players and very underrated among opponent fans who are busy following meme accounts.

 

[youngrell]

We quite clearly have a number of patters of play across the pitch, IMO.

Maguire, Shaw and Fred/Matic work the ball out of defence and passed the opposition press in almost identical fashion several times a match, using a triangle and opposite movements. Whether it's Maguire dropping further back to create the angle to pass into Fred/Matic, or Shaw pushing up to receive it from the midfielders, we see it time and time again and after that new patterns start, such as Shaw carrying the ball and working with Rashford or Fred looking for the CF/Bruno through the lines.

Same happens on the right hand side although a slight variant, with AWB often opting to come inside as an escape route, looking for Pogba/Scott or sometimes Bruno if he's dropped deeper to help out. If AWB feels he cannot move forward with the ball, we see Lindelof tucking in behind to offer an alternative route out, usually a long pass down the line to Greenwood or whoever is filling the right flank.

Then we have patterns in the centre, where the centre forward drops deep, lays the ball back to a midfielder and the wide man runs into the space left behind and we counter. Again, something we do numerous times a match to differing affect depending on the opponent's defensive line.

If the opposition are parking the bus, we see more patterns of play around the penalty box, moving the ball side to side as quickly as we can, with the full backs trying to act as decoys for the wide forwards to cut in and create. Shaw/Rashford/Bruno are usually the most successful at this, with us either getting a traditional cross from Shaw, or a right footed one from Marcus or Bruno, whoever has been able to create the space. When Pogba is on the field, this varies to more intricate passing and through balls for runners rather than crosses, despite Pogba being a good crosser of the ball himself.

As with most things, these are all done best with speed. So if we are making one touch passes and staying on our toes, we look much better and it's much harder for the opponent to defend. Our problem is it is quite ponderous sometimes, but if anyone thinks that is from instructions then they are very wrong. Ole has always mentioned how much he wants us to play quickly.

I will say, though, that I think we focus less on patterns at the top end of the field. Our build up is the smear out times, but when we get to the forwards it often comes down to intuition. Whether that is by design or not, I'm not sure, but I suspect it is because our two most dangerous players have the individual ability to do that, and I think Ole likes to offer his players a fair amount of freedom. I like this approach because otherwise, you have LvG football again. It's just sometimes it makes it harder for us if the forwards are not particularly sharp on any given day.

So, I think he both need and have both patterns of play and individual brilliance, but to dismiss these patterns altogether either means you are not watching closely enough or you don't want to see it because you don't like the manager.

 

[romufc]

This is interesting and I'd say a good way to describe pattern of play, but I don't know what specifically you have in mind?

Yeah, those are patterns of play but not every goal you score is patterns of play. When you play low blocks, you sometimes rely on individual brilliance to open teams up, which is why players like Messi, Ronaldo, Mbappe, Sancho, Haaland cost all that money, they can produce individual brilliance.

Only United fans complain about individual brilliance tbf. I have never seen City or Liverpool fans be like Feck sake we relied on a Salah / De Bruyne brilliance goal.

 

[Idxomer]

I don't know about patterns of play, but it's pretty simple for me. I would like to see the players improve their decision-making collectively and individually. I don't watch this team and think those guys are playing it smart and know what to do. This team's intelligence is lacking and that's the reason we have conceded farcical goals all season.

I'm also not sure there's any player who improved his decision-making over the last two years. Even our two best attackers this season don't make good decisions most of the time and whether people like it or not it affects our play and makes the team look disjointed more often than not.

 

[RUCK4444]

Mate, we are the most effective team in the league.

I think it's fascinating this, the majority think that....just the best players win? And the manager has no significant influence? The pattern of play doesn't exist?

I know. It’s bizarre.

This is the Premier League it’s not FIFA ultimate team where the best players win.

I could perhaps understand this point of view more if we had scored a paltry amount and were struggling to create chances but in fact it’s the total opposite, then if you factor in we miss tonnes of chances it just makes this opinion that we have no effective patterns of play even more bizarre.

 

[RashyForPM]

Then stop butting into other people's conversation blindly! Because it looks like you are defending Mainaldo that Everton's style is better than United. Everything else you said is off topic to be honest as we are not trying to argue which style is more effective.

Mainaldo is quoting all teams like Leeds and Southampton so maybe you should reply to him with your response. I have the same opinion as you so not sure why you are replying to me.

To be frank, do you know how stupid you are sounding? Seriously, it’s a football forum and I’m giving my opinion on why teams should be more clever when deciding a tactic against big teams. If you want to only talk to one guy, PM him. That’s entirely fine because we’ve all done it, but if you don’t want people to reply to you, then why post?

 

[Zehner]

It’s absolute boll@x.

Patterns of play creates goals, we have scored more goals than anybody in the league, so we have patterns of play as much as anybody.

Slow starts and conceding goals doesn’t mean you have no patterns of play.

Patterns of play also prevent goals. It's about build up patterns, setting up attacks and retaining the ball under pressure. A system ultimately has the goal of creating a surplus of chances so preventing good opportunities for your opponent is part of the idea. If there's a functioning system at work, players know exactly what to do in every situation which also minimizes the goals you concede from individual mistakes.

 

[Borys]

Yeah, those are patterns of play but not every goal you score is patterns of play. When you play low blocks, you sometimes rely on individual brilliance to open teams up, which is why players like Messi, Ronaldo, Mbappe, Sancho, Haaland cost all that money, they can produce individual brilliance.

Only United fans complain about individual brilliance tbf. I have never seen City or Liverpool fans be like Feck sake we relied on a Salah / De Bruyne brilliance goal.

You said "we have seen alot of similar goals this season so there is something there", which I'd agree on but what do you have in mind specifically?

I don't think United fans are special in any regard btw, we just don't dig deep enough to see what others do.

Again, there is nothing wrong with relying on individual brilliance as long as you work in the background on improving coaching/movement/patterns of play.

 

[RUCK4444]

Patterns of play also prevent goals. It's about build up patterns, setting up attacks and retaining the ball under pressure. A system ultimately has the goal of creating a surplus of chances so preventing good opportunities for your opponent is part of the idea. If there's a functioning system at work, players know exactly what to do in every situation which also minimizes the goals you concede from individual mistakes.

Agreed. However most people’s inclination here is to suggest we don’t have an effective style in an attacking sense.

This season we have regressed defensively through poor form in the CB positions in particular along with a long standing issue (that many don’t see) of us not having a single true DM within the squad other than an ageing Matic.

I don’t think anything in our ‘patterns of play’ leads to an increased amount of goals conceded, I believe the personnel on the pitch don’t protect the back four efficiently and the CB’s have been off form most of the season.

A DM or a new CB is a must for that to drastically improve imo.

 

[Listar]

To be frank, do you know how stupid you are sounding? Seriously, it’s a football forum and I’m giving my opinion on why teams should be more clever when deciding a tactic against big teams. If you want to only talk to one guy, PM him. That’s entirely fine because we’ve all done it, but if you don’t want people to reply to you, then why post?

Initial discussion started about which team has good football, to which someone replied Everton Leicester Leeds Southampton, to which I replied that they play defensive so not exactly good football comparing to us, to which you replied do I expect them to dominate possession.

Yes I am the one sounding stupid. You are sounding so smart that no one knows what your point is.

 

[Mainoldo]

Always.

Using your same analogy how would you rather us win the league?

 

[Berbasbullet]

To be frank, do you know how stupid you are sounding? Seriously, it’s a football forum and I’m giving my opinion on why teams should be more clever when deciding a tactic against big teams. If you want to only talk to one guy, PM him. That’s entirely fine because we’ve all done it, but if you don’t want people to reply to you, then why post?

Your reply completely ignored the context of the conversation bro.

 

[Ødegaard]

Using your same analogy how would you rather us win the league?

I want to win the league, I've not been at the point where I care about how for a fair few years.
If Ole wins the league dragging us to just enough 1-0 victories with only a mix of penalty goals and own-goals I'll be super happy with it.

 

[Mainoldo]

I want to win the league, I've not been at the point where I care about how for a fair few years.
If Ole wins the league dragging us to just enough 1-0 victories with only a mix of penalty goals and own-goals I'll be super happy with it.

So we are back where we started under the appointment of Jose. Nice to hear the progression honestly answered.

I like you.

 

[Borys]

Initial discussion started about which team has good football, to which someone replied Everton Leicester Leeds Southampton, to which I replied that they play defensive so not exactly good football comparing to us, to which you replied do I expect them to dominate possession.

Yes I am the one sounding stupid. You are sounding so smart that no one knows what your point is.

How do you conclude who plays offensive or defensive football?

 

[romufc]

You said "we have seen alot of similar goals this season so there is something there", which I'd agree on but what do you have in mind specifically?

I don't think United fans are special in any regard btw, we just don't dig deep enough to see what others do.

Again, there is nothing wrong with relying on individual brilliance as long as you work in the background on improving coaching/movement/patterns of play.

We have seen alot of goals on the counter which are similar, even chances created on the counter, we get the ball and find Rashford making the inside forward run. That is a pattern of play. Rashford has had alot of chances when he has made the inside run forward. The players know on the transition, he will be available, it doesn't happen if thats not worked on.

We have seen goals from Luke Shaw or crosses from LW into the box.. Martial V Istanbul, Bruno V Everton, Bruno v WBA. Cavani V Southampton. Bruno V Istanbul.

If those two scenarios are not patterns of play, I am not sure what patterns of play is.

 

[Andersons Dietician]

I’ve worked in football previously, been around training grounds and coaches etc. The only place I’ve ever heard pattern of play mentioned is on here, I’m not sure who started it but it’s really funny reading which managers are good and bad because of something I’ve never heard professionals speak about/implement in training.

I find this really hard to believe, because watching any game you can see patterns of play that are repeated time after time. Watch a Bielsa, LVG, Pep training session and you’ll see them working things time after time so it’s muscle memory. Certain movements happen to trigger actions or they work scenarios that people are drilled in or just becomes habit of moving to a certain place.

This is something that has probably been happening for Decades never even mind modern coaches, heck if you take your child to one of those super football club events and one of the games which is for 6 year olds is repeating a pattern so they can try and do it in game.

 

[Listar]

How do you conclude who plays offensive or defensive football?

Scroll up the conversation if you are interested in the answer.

 

[Bebestation]

The best way to describe this about Ole is:

Rijkaard's Barcelona vs Guardiola's Barcelona

Rijkaard had Deco, Ronaldinho, Eto'o, Xavi, Iniesta, Van Bommel, Motta, Puyol, Marquez, Valdes, Larsson, making messi train with the first team and more.

They were successful in their third year winning the CL and having the worlds best player.

When Guardiola came he had a very good starting XI to work with mix of a good squad to deal with and him deciding to get rid of some players in questionable decisions (Eto'o to Inter Milan to win the CL).

Now everyone talks about Guardiola's Barcelona team as the best club in the history of football - but there has to be some respect for the team Rijkaard left behind compared to what Guardiola could have started managing if he had taken over Van Gaal in 2002 - michael reiziger, Saviola, Riquelme, de Boer, Mendoza, rochembak etc

The reason I bring this is because we have had managers who play with strict game tactics and pattern of play like we saw with Mourinho's defensive priority when parking the bus or Van Gaals side wards passing when playing possesion football. We saw our individual quality in the squad go down a significant level whilst the managers tried to predominantly focus on the team tactics and style. Playing a whole squad in one significantly style or tactic hides the weaknesses of individual players because it emphasises in playing 11 players in the exact same way.
--
You fast forward to Ole and you see a more individualistic approach and the players that are not good enough are showing whilst the players that are producing, shine at Old Trafford.

It's why I dont want Ole to be replaced yet for a tactically dense coach who doesnt have the ability to recognise the weaknesses of the individual abilities of the players because he is trying he is only concentrating on whether the footballer is good enough to follow his specific tactic.

I believe that after Ole's time here that he will leave a club in a similar state to how Rijkaard left Barcelona- players with a good balance of individual abilities and hard workers that can leave a very good balanced squad for a very specific tactical manager like Guardiola who is focusing on a pure style of football to come and manage afterwards.

 

[georgipep]

I find this thread very interesting, reading how differently people understand football. My personnal opinion is we're a team which relies heavily on Bruno, Rashford et al. doing "something out of nothing". I share this views:

Enabling your best players to perform and focusing the rest of the team into getting the ball to them in the right time and areas, is a definite "pattern of play" and a very deliberate tactical setup. This is what SAF did with RvP and before him with Cristiano Ronaldo.

I thought this was obvious, but reading through those posts it certainly seems like if we invest time and energy into coaching and better team play, it will somehow make our star players less brilliant. When in reality it's exactly the opposite.

I wouldn't take seriously any notion that coaching good players into deliberate plays (I hate the word "patterns" in football context) is going to make them less brilliant.

Unless they get coached to submission like LvG did some players, making them completely forget their instincts, which are/were what made them dangerous. For example, I'm certain LvG would hate having Bruno play the way he does because he loses the ball all too often. And either Bruno will ask to leave or he will become less dangerous because he won't attempt that many "killer passes".

On the other side there are people who see no problem because we are top scorers in the league and they consider this as a proof we must have patterns of play.

You may not like or recognize it but this team is playing with "attack first" mindset and tactical setup that maximises the abilities of our best players (or at least some of them) and results in scoring a lot of goals. It doesn't work every time against every opponent but you know better than most people that context is important. Rashford, for example, is an extremely wasteful forward and his efficiency is not top class at all. He needs many chances to score. But on the bright side, we create a lot of chances for him (some of which he creates for himself) and also has the ability to score from low probability chances too.

I think Ole has some very good players at his disposal. I remember last years under Ferguson I was thinking "how is he winning with this squad". IMO we have really really good team right now.
We're 2nd but closer to 7th place than to 1st, and already out of CL and Carabao Cup, so it's not like we should be celebrating this season success.

Liverpool are 6th, closer to 18th than to 1st. Do you think they do not have a good squad, patterns of play, have been well coached and have a good manager?

What I'm trying to say is that context matters. Liverpool are having a bad season. We are having a rather mixed season with good form followed by bad form.

Being out of the CL and Carabao is not ideal but is it your criteria for success?

This is an opinion I completely disagree with. We are not upgrading on every 2-3 players every season because they turn out not good enough. It's manager and his coaching staff job to find a way to make them play better as a collective. Are we improving? Yes. Are we a well coached team? No. But we are scoring a lot of goals which are very often down to individual brilliance and you can see how it hurts us when Bruno is out of form or Pogba out. Also, we've been winning by 1 goal more often than not this season so it's not like we're free-scoring team.

I agree that the manager and coaches' job is to improve players. Do you think Ole and his team have improved Rashford, Shaw, McTominay, Greenwood and Fred? Some might argue that young players improve regardless of manager. I disagree.

Can a manager improve EVERY player? If so, why would clubs need transfers? Why do Pep and Klopp need transfers? Couldn't Klopp improve Lovren, Mignolet or Karius? Why did Origi not become the striker people thought he would 5 years ago?

Why did Pep not coach Joe Hart how to be the sweeper-keeper he needed or not let goals in his near post? Why did Pep needed to buy a bus full of world class fullbacks? Couldn't he improve what he had?

When Liverpool won a lot of games with 1 goal difference last season what happened? They became champions. In my opinion it is childish and naive to expect a team to win all games emphatically.

I think it's a bad thing for a couple of reasons:
1) top teams never really play free flowing football. They actually have patterns of play, even if they exchange positions player take up different role. Peak Barca, Bayern, current City do that on highest lever. From what I've seen this season Leipzig and Brighton do that quite well - they just don't have the players to pull this off against top teams. Hardly a reason to discredit their style of play.
2) if Ole tell front players to enjoy themselves, it makes me wonder why the hell we need coaching staff in general?

Have you watch Bayern since Flick took over? In my view, they play almost the same football we do but with players who have played longer together, have won things and are generally just better players.

If you think Flick only tells his front players to enjoy themselves, I guess that's that.

We also have much much better squad than under van Gaal.

Really? Maybe this is for a completely different thread but should we do a position by position comparison of what LvG had at his disposal to what Ole has?

Why not? We hammered them 5-0 but on the other occasion when it really mattered we couldn't get a point. They play very good football without having many spectacular players (that we have).


This is interesting and I'd say a good way to describe pattern of play, but I don't know what specifically you have in mind?

Saying that we lost to one team makes us inferior is silly. We eliminated PSG when Ole was caretaker. Did that make us a better team than them?

We eliminated Liverpool in the FA cup recently. Does that make us a better team than them? Not sure when "it really matters" but our team has proven that they can win important games and equally they can lose them. The Sevilla semi-final will hurt for al long time because it was a game that we should have won by a margin if our forwards took their chances. But that's football, sometimes you miss chances, sometimes your opponent misses chances.

 

[Borys]

We have seen alot of goals on the counter which are similar, even chances created on the counter, we get the ball and find Rashford making the inside forward run. That is a pattern of play. Rashford has had alot of chances when he has made the inside run forward. The players know on the transition, he will be available, it doesn't happen if thats not worked on.

We have seen goals from Luke Shaw or crosses from LW into the box.. Martial V Istanbul, Bruno V Everton, Bruno v WBA. Cavani V Southampton. Bruno V Istanbul.

If those two scenarios are not patterns of play, I am not sure what patterns of play is.

It's a bit of a stretch to call counter attack or crosses from wing as a pattern of play if you ask me. Moyes team crossed a lot, it's basic football really. We work pretty well on making space for Shaw on the wing which would be a better example IMO. But I can't think of anything else at the moment. There is no clear "style of play" I can describe.

Every team plays counter attacking football. We do it more effectively because we have the players to pull this off.

 

[Rilz]

I’d like both.

The way I see it patterns of play is what sets your baseline, it’s automatic, it’s like a cadence.

I reckon city so often score 4-5 because they have both a style of play and quality individual players, they have a cadence they use to unlock a defence and moments of brilliance that pushes up the score line

 

[GoldTrafford99]

The funny thing is that we do have a pattern of play. It's called 'counter attacking at pace'. You see it every match like regular clockwork.

Just because it's not what all fans want or like, it doesn't mean we play without a plan

Incredulous, isn't it?


We have the most obvious patterns of play and approach to Premier League games.. and yet, some guys with silly names on a internet forum say we don't.

I'm not sure what to believe...

The actual facts...

Or these guys with silly usernames?

 

[Bilbo]

The majority of our issues come down to the fact that we lean so heavily to the left hand side when we attack. It makes us predictable at times and causes our build up play to look stodgy. Its difficult at the best of times to break down a defensive unit, but we make it even more difficult for ourselves by effectively cutting the pitch in half.

Where it gets frustrating is when posters reduce it down to 'the coaching staff aren't up to it' when in reality pretty much everything about the way we play is largely dictated by the limitations in the squad, and our coaches attempts to limit the exposure of our flaws and get maximum impact out of our strengths.

 

[romufc]

It's a bit of a stretch to call counter attack or crosses from wing as a pattern of play if you ask me. Moyes team crossed a lot, it's basic football really. We work pretty well on making space for Shaw on the wing which would be a better example IMO. But I can't think of anything else at the moment. There is no clear "style of play" I can describe.

Every team plays counter attacking football. We do it more effectively because we have the players to pull this off.

So what is pattern of play then? can you give me examples of numerous goals scored by a team that you say that is pattern of play?

Moyes teams cross alot, that is their pattern of play though. Its not individual brilliance is it?

There is no clear style of play? Counter attack is a style of play btw. Getting crosses is a style of play as well.

If they are not, no team has a pattern of play then.

 

[Buster15]

You ever have ambitions of us winning the league?

What is more important is whether the club shares that ambition. Both for the PL as well as the CL.
With Sir Alex, it was always evident that we had that as a primary ambition. Actually not just an ambition but a direct target.
While I can acknowledge the improvement under Ole, those targets are more a possibility rather than a probability.

 

[pocco]

'Patterns of play' is the wrong phrase to describe what we are missing. We lack a consistent game plan. We lack a game plan that looks like it is both well coached and well carried out. We lack a game plan that, in my opinion, is exciting. We struggle to dominate any game for 90 minutes, no matter the opposition.

In terms of pattern of play (in games we can't counter, those games are self explanatory), we clearly try to create overloads out wide and either cross the ball or cut it back to the edge of the box to stretch the opposition. 2 v 1 situations out wide is our 'thing', little coming through the middle directly, for the most part. Once we have it out wide, we either pass it to Bruno/another CM centrally, who will play it to the other side, or will try to feed it into the striker and run off him. It's just not really that good for the most part. What I would like to see is more movement, quicker interplay, better runs in behind with intent on getting the ball or as a decoy. '3rd man running', as it is often called, which City do magnificently. I see none of this from us apart from the odd rare occasion, even then it doesn't feel like it is done by design.

Hell, even the ability to take a man on has completely disappeared from our attackers. This is the worst I have ever seen Martial, and that's saying something because I've been really critical of him under Jose.

 

[Mainoldo]

What is more important is whether the club shares that ambition. Both for the PL as well as the CL.
With Sir Alex, it was always evident that we had that as a primary ambition. Actually not just an ambition but a direct target.
While I can acknowledge the improvement under Ole, those targets are more a possibility rather than a probability.

Nobody at the club cares about being number 1. We have Solksjear in charge. It’s as clear as that. I don’t know why you are so optimistic

Probability makes sure you have football structure and managers like Pep in charge. Possibility and gambling is exactly what we do best.