I think that is doing him a massive injustice in terms of what he brought to the team, he did so many more important things.
Iniesta - Is there another? | Announces retirement
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Jamie (@Vault Dweller) are here to talk about United's dreadful home defeat at the hands of Big Ange's Tottenham Hotspur. Should this have been the end of Ten Hag? How long does he actually have left? And does Nik finally want ETH out?!
Not sure what you're on about but Modric has been top class for well over a decade. He was excellent in Euro 2008 and was world class for Spurs in 2010/11 and really hasn't looked back since then.
Scholes was great but I give Modric the edge for being a better performer than Scholes both in the CL and international football. Modric has dominated in different leagues and competitions in a way Scholes hasn't.
Given that Scholes never made any UEFA or FIFA team of the year, never won any player of the year awards domestically or in europe, and made EPL team of the year only twice in his long career, you'd have thought he'd at least have won the MUFC Members Player of the Year, given even Heinze and Javier Fernandez won that but no.
How can a player so beloved in cherry picked quotes have been so completely overlooked in his own time? It's almost as if he were never as good as he's posthumously made out to be.
How can a player so beloved in cherry picked quotes have been so completely overlooked in his own time? It's almost as if he were never as good as he's posthumously made out to be.
Good enough for you to visit rival forums to speak about him, years after he’s retired at that.
You would be forgiven for thinking Scholes was an afterthought, a non-factor in Manchester United's dominance of English football, judging by the derision received at placing him above Modric.
Feel free to find the non cherry picked quotes about him from those same footballers/managers.
I am not discounting anything, ofcourse Scholes was not by any means a player who cannot be compared with Iniesta, given the respect Xavi, Ineista and others have for Scholes they will probably say he was better than them.
It is just that for me Iniesta was a better player than both Scholes and Modric.
Name a better rivalry than @B20 and Scholes
Ronaldo versus @NasirTimothy
My rivalry is really more with the cafs collective image of him. A phantom image. I am really more of a forum Dawkins.
Do you think Iniesta could have played in a midfield two?
I think that Modric has been at a top level for longer than that. Even if he hasn't, the argument for him would be that he peaked higher than Scholes ever did. Scholes was a tremendous player, but at no point was he quite at the same level as Modric was in 2018.
Sadly we will never know
.Can't directly compare Iniesta to Xavi. However, both can be compared to Scholes since he played both as a ball carrying midfielder and a deep lying playmaker at different times, but for a significant part of his career.
Ball carrying attacking mid fielder: Iniesta > Modric/Scholes > Xavi/Kroos
Deep Lying playmaker: Xavi > Scholes/Kroos > Iniesta/Modric
Ball carrying attacking mid fielder: Iniesta > Modric/Scholes > Xavi/Kroos
Deep Lying playmaker: Xavi > Scholes/Kroos > Iniesta/Modric
Iniesta played out wide too right?
Nuvole Bianche innit.
Modric was the main deep lying playmaker for RM, Kroos was more BtB.
Come on now... Scholes? I overestimate Bayern players all the time so take this from a neutral - Scholes is a distant third in a competition against Iniesta and Modric. I've watched football since the mid 90's and in that time this would probably be my lists (I didn't really catch Laudrup, I might have forgotten someone and it's a toss up between several players. Never the less, Scholes doesn't cut it.)
CAM
#1 Zidane
#2 Iniesta
#3 Káka
#4 Riquelme
#5 de Bruyne
CM (ball playing)
#1 Xavi
#2 Modric
#3 Pirlo
#4 Xabi Alonso
#5 Kroos
CAM
#1 Zidane
#2 Iniesta
#3 Káka
#4 Riquelme
#5 de Bruyne
CM (ball playing)
#1 Xavi
#2 Modric
#3 Pirlo
#4 Xabi Alonso
#5 Kroos
Iniesta > Zidane
Agree with most of it except the Kaka thing.
Prime Kaka is definitely better than any version of Iniesta.
In his peak, Kaka was the main man, talisman, he was unstoppable for Milan.
Kaka had that X factor. He was the best player in the world at his best.
Dribbling past everybody, shooting from distance, playing defense splitting balls. You name it, he had it all. Not to mention how physically superior he was to everybody. Terrifying.
Iniesta's skill set simply can't match up to that pre injury Kaka. As great as he was.
Sure, why not. Iniesta had 4 lungs and was actually pretty decent defensively, not unlike Modric. Bit of a waste of his talents, but yeah
Nope. Kroos has always been our main deep lying playmaker since we signed him. Modric the secondary playmaker as well as more of a "break" player, not unlike Iniesta, though not as frequently
Wouldn't classify Kaka as a midfielder, he was much more of a forward really. Also he was better than Iniesta at his peak
De Bruyne > Riquelme
Also, Pirlo over Modric and Kroos over Xabi
Every match I have watched of them, Modric was the one dictating the game, and Kroos kept back and gave him the ball.
You could make a case for Kaka being equally adept playing sub striker similar to Rivaldo but his main position for AC Milan and Brazil was as a 10 behind Schevchenko-Inzaghi (Crespo), Ronaldo-Adriano. 4-4-2 diamond formation.
And I don't agree about Kaka being better than Iniesta at his peak. Kaka was a force of nature, a one man army, but Iniesta is for me almost better than Zidane. If Iniesta had played before Zidane I might even have had Iniesta higher, now he can't beat the original.
I almost put Riquelme at #3 even above Kaka. Riquelme was every bit as good as Zidane. Only difference is Riquelme lacks the accolades. The stuff he did at Villarreal and Argentina NT (didn't watch him at Boca) is the stuff of legends. The technical ability of Zidane, Riquelme and Özil - three rather slow #10 - was out of this world. There really should not have been any room for them in modern football due to their lack of pace. De Bruyne is more in the Lampard/Ballack mould, very very good player but you could argue David Silva was better than him and Riquelme definitely was better than David Silva.
I'd rather say Xabi over Pirlo if anything due to having similar passing range but being miles better defensively. I'd also like to mention my personal favorite Seedorf who in my view is on the level of all those mentioned, his main flaw in his later AC Milan years was that he only played to the level of the opposition. Shite against Catania, World Class against Manchester United.
Kroos, as good as he is, has never truly been the boss of midfield. Modric has been his partner and in German NT Schweinsteiger was the boss even if Kroos was technically better. Since 2016 when Schweinsteiger retired Kroos has failed to strike a partnership with say Gündogan and make the NT amount to anything. Xabi was definitely better than Kroos.
Also when the hell was Scholes ever "world class" as a striker or attacking midfielder? He was a quality player yes, but anyone with a brain will tell you he was in that top tier of midfielders when played deeper, which was later in his career.
Swear half of the people on the Caf have never watched football outside of United matches. Modric has been incredible for a while and alongside Kroos dominated the CL for the last half of the 2010's.
This forum consistently underrates Iniesta when comparing him to other players as well simply because he didn't score a bunch of highlight reel goals and never had any narrative around him since he played alongside Messi for so long.
He's right there with Zidane among the best attack minded midfielders of all time, and an unbelievable player in the biggest matches as well.
He's right there with Zidane among the best attack minded midfielders of all time, and an unbelievable player in the biggest matches as well.
Alonso over Scholes is laughable.
Agreed, there are multiple players I would put ahead.
Not sure he's ever seen Scholes play to be honest. To put him out of the equation is beyond careless.
Off to the falling out of love with the game thread..
Yeah, same here.
Truly bizarre. I would put it down to a Bayern bias, but even if that was the case, you would take Schweinsteiger over Alonso anyway.
The 3 players are masters of their trade and offer something different. The reason why I loved the game was players like the aforementioned 3 players. Awesome players and nothing in it really for comparison to gradiate.
Iniesta's lack of killer instinct in the final third (which as a result made him lack goals & assists) is his weakness, though he came up with some very important goals.
But apart from that (albeit decisive) aspect, and as a CM, the only other midfielders i can think of that were better than him were only Xavi and Zidane (debatable).
For those saying Kaka was better, apart from being a better goal scorer, i struggle to find any other thing he was better than Iniesta at.
But apart from that (albeit decisive) aspect, and as a CM, the only other midfielders i can think of that were better than him were only Xavi and Zidane (debatable).
For those saying Kaka was better, apart from being a better goal scorer, i struggle to find any other thing he was better than Iniesta at.
Team of the year is such an odd metric to measure the greatness of a player for instance David Batty has more appearances than Scholes in the PFA one they are popularity competitions, consider the 2008 UEFA team of the year had only 1 United player in it despite the fact they won it should probably tell you all you need to know
Kaka also had a far better final pass. His combination of excellent physical attributes and technical attributes made him tear teams apart and directly ruin defenses.
Kaka had the ability to carry out one man counter attacks practically anytime.
He was the main guy/talisman you build your team around. He could create a goal out of absolutely nothing.
People are just so into tiki taka and that Barcelona team that they can see nothing beyond it.
Iniesta was never even the best player in his own national or club team. Kaka at his best was literally the best in the world. Just a better individual who had way more in his locker.
If they are popularity contests how did David Batty make the team then? Its often repeated that individual awards are popularity contests but it's never really made sense to me because for the most part the winners are usually deserved or at the very least a case can be made for their inclusion.
Scholes made the PFA team in 2003 and 2007, he was unreal in both those seasons and made the team. He made the team when he deserved it, it really is that simple.
Ones that are somewhat close.
Alonso is over-rated on this list. Collapsed when pressed in multiple CL games. For the NT, unlike Pirlo, was very much not alone - had Buqsuets to cover him and Xavi and Iniesta to do the fancier passing in front of him.
Kaka wasn't going to be the best player in that Barca or Spanish team either, just like he wasn't in the Brazilian NT.
Iniesta (and Xavi) were more often than not sharing MOTM awards in competitions those years when Spain was winning everything, so many can actually argue that he was the best player on the NT (though Xavi was the most important element).