Injuries

noodlehair

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That is all true - apart from not being able to play Pogba further up; can't see why not - but still, the amount of injuries we're getting consistently, every single season needs to be looked at. It cannot be just bad luck or a coincidence. It's one of the many problems we have, yes, but still a problem.
Well I think he can be and should be played further forward to be fair...but then our midfield two would be what it was yesterday, and they got outplayed by an ugly looking 17 year old. Then again when you put Pogba in a midfield two he's shite anyway. Basically I just think that even with everyone fit our midfield is shocking. I like Mctominay but the awfulness of the alternatives is a big part of what makes him look good.

Injuries are a problem but then you look at the players getting injured. Shaw, Bailly, Jones, Dalot...all injury prone players...which I think already pretty much solves the mystery. Having lots of injury prone players results in lots of injuries. Jones x2 as he also likes to injury other players.

Bissaka is still young and a lot of young players have a habit of picking up niggling problems.

That just leaves Pogba, Martial and Lingard. Martial we know was an impact injury from during a game. Lingard was a hamstring pull...that can be a fitness issue but hamstring problems can also linger and reoccur regardless as it takes a very long time for the problem to actually fully heal and strengthen.

Pogba it seems we brought back from injury, while he was still injured, which never helps.

I don't think there's anything particularly mysterious about it. I think we have a number of players prone to injury and also too much pressure on players outside of the defence due to a very weak squad. Any point during the season where one of Rashford, Pogba or Martial is off firm or injured is going to border on a crisis. At the moment we have all three in one boat or the other...which actually isn't that surprising.
 

meamth

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Maybe now Solskjaer needs to limit his physical + fitness training to injury prone players, check their history and reduce their amount of work at the training ground during the season. Not every player can run all day like Daniel James, so we need to do something to prevent injuries.

If I have to label player's fitness in our team:

Fit as feck players:
Daniel James
Mctominay
Maguire
Axel
Rashy

Average fitness feckers:
Pereira
Gomes
Garner
Fred
Matic
AWB
Chong
Mata

The softies:
Martial
Lingard
Pogba
Lindelof
Jones
Rojo
Shaw
Greenwood
Dalot

I don't know shyte, but at least do something. Forcing players to raise their fitness level is good, but not everyone can do that. All muscles aren't the same.
 

Siorac

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Well I think he can be and should be played further forward to be fair...but then our midfield two would be what it was yesterday, and they got outplayed by an ugly looking 17 year old. Then again when you put Pogba in a midfield two he's shite anyway. Basically I just think that even with everyone fit our midfield is shocking. I like Mctominay but the awfulness of the alternatives is a big part of what makes him look good.

Injuries are a problem but then you look at the players getting injured. Shaw, Bailly, Jones, Dalot...all injury prone players...which I think already pretty much solves the mystery. Having lots of injury prone players results in lots of injuries. Jones x2 as he also likes to injury other players.

Bissaka is still young and a lot of young players have a habit of picking up niggling problems.

That just leaves Pogba, Martial and Lingard. Martial we know was an impact injury from during a game. Lingard was a hamstring pull...that can be a fitness issue but hamstring problems can also linger and reoccur regardless as it takes a very long time for the problem to actually fully heal and strengthen.

Pogba it seems we brought back from injury, while he was still injured, which never helps.

I don't think there's anything particularly mysterious about it. I think we have a number of players prone to injury and also too much pressure on players outside of the defence due to a very weak squad. Any point during the season where one of Rashford, Pogba or Martial is off firm or injured is going to border on a crisis. At the moment we have all three in one boat or the other...which actually isn't that surprising.
Were those players always injury prone? Why do half our young players end up being very injury prone? Is that a recruitment problem, a medical problem, or just plain bad luck? I'm not sure we can just handwave it away with "we sign injury prone players". Or if that's true, that's also a problem in how the club is run.

I agree that our midfield is basically shite in whatever configuration you can conjure up. It's criminal that six years after the "I'd rather buy another two strikers and three wingers than a central midfielder" policy of Fergie we're back here once more.
 
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Maybe now Solskjaer needs to limit his physical + fitness training to injury prone players, check their history and reduce their amount of work at the training ground during the season. Not every player can run all day like Daniel James, so we need to do something to prevent injuries.

If I have to label player's fitness in our team:

Fit as feck players:
Daniel James
Mctominay
Maguire
Axel
Rashy

Average fitness feckers:
Pereira
Gomes
Garner
Fred
Matic
AWB
Chong
Mata

The softies:
Martial
Lingard
Pogba
Lindelof
Jones
Rojo
Shaw
Greenwood
Dalot

I don't know shyte, but at least do something. Forcing players to raise their fitness level is good, but not everyone can do that. All muscles aren't the same.
Bit harsh on Lindelof and Lingard lumping them in with the injury prone lads.

Love how you've just forgotten about Bailly, like it's just expected he'll be injured :lol:
 

meamth

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Bit harsh on Lindelof and Lingard lumping them in with the injury prone lads.

Love how you've just forgotten about Bailly, like it's just expected he'll be injured :lol:
Oh yeah...we have Bailly.. :lol:

Well yeah, I guess both Lingard and Lindelof, when they are hitting some form, they will get injured. Never felt assured when they worked too hard above 70 minutes in a game.
 

noodlehair

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Were those players always injury prone? Why do half our young players end up being very injury prone? Is that a recruitment problem, a medical problem, or just plain bad luck? I'm not sure we can just handwave it away with "we sign injury prone players". Or if that's true, that's also a problem in how the club is run.

I agree that our midfield is basically shite in whatever configuration you can conjure up. It's criminal that six years after the "I'd rather buy another two strikers and three wingers than a central midfielder" policy of Fergie we're back here once more.
Shaw has always had fitness problems and Dalot was literally on long term injury leave when we signed him. Jones has always been injury prone. Bailly is the only one where I'm not sure.

Outlet recruitment has been pretty shite for a long while, which is why we have a poor squad and players who for one reason or another are unreliable. In the last 4-5 years we've signed Dalot, Bissaka, Darmian, Shaw, Lindelof, Bailly, Rojo, Blind, Maguire...that's 9 defenders off the top of my head. In midfield Pogba, Matic, Mata, Herrera, Sneiderlin, Schweinstieger, Fred, Fellaini...another 8 midfielders. That's 17 players, of which I'd say you can count 5 as being reliable first team members at a stretch, and that includes Maguire and Bisssaka who really it's too early to say for sure, and Herrera who doesn't play for us anymore anyway.

Not all of these are injury prone. The problem is half of them were never good enough, or never wanted to be here, or the manager didn't want them. We just get stuck withbthe injured ones or in a few cases (Dalot for example) they're still very young so need time regardless. The crux of the problem is that our recruitment has been diabolically shite since Woodward has been in charge.
 

Gordon S

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I remember a cl game in 2009 when we played Wolfsburg away and had to play Carrick and Fletcher as defenders because of the injurycrisis we had. 10 years ago now and it just never stops. Mindblowing:houllier:
 
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Sandikan

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I remember a cl game in 2009 when we played Wolfsburg away and had to play Carrick and Fletcher as defenders because of the injurycrisis we had. 10 years ago now and it just never stops. Mindblowing:houllier:
The centre back injury crisis was a yearly thing. All of them getting injured together seemingly year after year.

At least we're sprinkling them around now, and also not relying on the likes of Jones and Bailly who between them cannot last more than 4-5 games without an injury.
 

MadDogg

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I think there is a connection too. Under Ole it seems to be worse though. But I just look at Liverpool for instance where they run their socks off each game and almost field the same exact eleven every single time. They suffer from very little problems with injuries which means they are doing something right. We are obviously doing things wrong. This is not normal.
I could be wrong but I believe Liverpool did pick up quite a few injures when Klopp first joined and had them start pressing and running more. Took 18 months or so before they grew accustomed enough to it that they could do it all season.
 

romufc

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I could be wrong but I believe Liverpool did pick up quite a few injures when Klopp first joined and had them start pressing and running more. Took 18 months or so before they grew accustomed enough to it that they could do it all season.
Look at his record now, players played PL, got to CL final went to world cup came back competed in the league, won the CL, front 3 played internation tournaments came back late and are still firing.

Here we are complaining that Fred has taken 2 weeks longer because of honeymoon and he isnt match fit 2 months into the season.
 

Inigo Montoya

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Look at his record now, players played PL, got to CL final went to world cup came back competed in the league, won the CL, front 3 played internation tournaments came back late and are still firing.

Here we are complaining that Fred has taken 2 weeks longer because of honeymoon and he isnt match fit 2 months into the season.
Happens when teams are dominant.

SAFs best ever teams hardly had injuries. He was able to rotate when winning. In fact the longest term injury I recall was Keane’s and we narrowly lost the league that year.
Klopp has had a couple of key players out: Ox, Matip, Gomez but the team plays with so much confidence and swagger that it’s hard to see them losing even with one or two out.

The key will be if Firmino. Mane and VVD are all missing at the same time. That will be an interesting one if it happens
 

Inigo Montoya

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Our medical team is doing a worse job than Woodward, literally every player who joins us turns into a crock, what the feck is going on?
You can’t blame a medical team for muscle and structural injuries. Ridiculous

“Doctor I’ve got a hamstring pull. Must be your fault “
 

romufc

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The key will be if Firmino. Mane and VVD are all missing at the same time. That will be an interesting one if it happens
Those will be the key and I think Fabinho too.

It is hard to play with consistency when you dont know who will be fit next game.

Klopp knows 10/11 players he will start more weeks.

Ole knows DDG, Maguire, Mctominay, AWB the rest are injury prone or not in his best 11.
 

croadyman

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Does seem that players that have a generally good injury record until they come to this club. I can't work out if it's the intense training causing these muscle injuries or we are just plain unlucky with our key players missing chunks of the season

Maybe we need to take a long hard look at our medical team and look into what could be causing the amount of injuries we suffer compared to other teams.
 

Lee565

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Why on earth did Solskjear bring back pogba for the rochdale game, it wasnt like he had been out for months and needed match sharpness.
 

Snow

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To be fair, Romero is fecking solid...
He's extremely overrated on here due to the fact of having played mostly against teams that we should beat comfortably every time he plays. He's look fairly shaky in the tougher matches. If there was any chance of us beating Liverpool I think it's gone if De Gea is out.
 

Judas

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Romero is alright for the odd game, but he's always looked suspect anytime he's had a run of games. His stock on here is so high because he barely plays.
 

NewGlory

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Glad to see this thread. It is a problem and if you look at what kind of injuries these are – they are rarely inflicted by the opponents and that's a very, very, concerning issue. It means our coaching staff is shite. Fitness training, recovery, making sure team doesn't overstretch itself - the basic science that all modern teams have mastered is clearly a black magic at United.

This is unacceptable
 

Rhyme Animal

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He's extremely overrated on here due to the fact of having played mostly against teams that we should beat comfortably every time he plays. He's look fairly shaky in the tougher matches. If there was any chance of us beating Liverpool I think it's gone if De Gea is out.
Romero is alright for the odd game, but he's always looked suspect anytime he's had a run of games. His stock on here is so high because he barely plays.
Think you're both being a little harsh on him - especially when compared to de Gea's more recent form...

Also, it's not as if our play builds up from the back through the keeper like some more progressive teams do - our keeper is basically just a shot stopper, so our outfield play shouldn't be affected by this at all.

City with Ederson, or Liverpool without Alisson is very different as they regularly contribute to more than simply shot stopping.
 

Snow

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Think you're both being a little harsh on him - especially when compared to de Gea's more recent form...

Also, it's not as if our play builds up from the back through the keeper like some more progressive teams do - our keeper is basically just a shot stopper, so our outfield play shouldn't be affected by this at all.

City with Ederson, or Liverpool without Alisson is very different as they regularly contribute to more than simply shot stopping.
Liverpool isn't very different without Alisson but City are different without Ederson.

I don't think I'm being harsh as I mentioned in another thread. De Gea saving these impossible 1v1 chances is what we're going to need against Liverpool. Romero doesn't have that agility. He's also only played 6 games for us last season and his PL career total is 7 whole games in 4 seasons + this one. What kind of form do you think he's in? Compare that to Adrián who's played 75 league games in the same period. This is Liverpool, not the 2016/17 Europa League.

De Gea's recent form has been good? He's earned us point this season and was good for Spain tonight.

I find it ludicrous that people aren't bothered with this injury. He's pretty much our best player.
 

Isotope

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Was a bit surprised to read this. Because we didn’t get our traditional “every central defender at the club out at once” crisis I didn’t realise we picked up so many injuries. These stats certainly make a mockery of the idea that running much less than other teams somehow prevents injuries. Evidently not.
That's totally explain why Ole put his eggs on Martial being healthy as our main striker.
 

Canuckred64

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We have injury problems for a decade or more, there is either something wrong with the medical team, the training facilities our training methods or the turf we play on. Or likely a combination of all four.
 

ScouseDipper

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Liverpool isn't very different without Alisson but City are different without Ederson.

I don't think I'm being harsh as I mentioned in another thread. De Gea saving these impossible 1v1 chances is what we're going to need against Liverpool. Romero doesn't have that agility. He's also only played 6 games for us last season and his PL career total is 7 whole games in 4 seasons + this one. What kind of form do you think he's in? Compare that to Adrián who's played 75 league games in the same period. This is Liverpool, not the 2016/17 Europa League.

De Gea's recent form has been good? He's earned us point this season and was good for Spain tonight.

I find it ludicrous that people aren't bothered with this injury. He's pretty much our best player.
Liverpool are still gonna score no matter who plays keeper for united on sunday. They are that good going forward. constant pressure from Mane Firminho and Salah will be too much for any keeper. As long as Klopp dosen't play ultra cautious like the game in OT last season, liverpool are winning this.
 

United Hobbit

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Great now De Gea is potentially out

https://www.manutd.com/en/news/detail/david-de-gea-suffers-injury-in-spain-draw-with-sweden

Hopefully it's precautions and he will be fine as the article states he had been having a great game. I know Romero is decent back up but De Gea has often saved us against Liverpool and we will be needing one of his on top form games this time.

I'd be intrigued to know how much time Liverpool's key players such as VVD/ the front 3 spend out injured compared to our players
 

SeasickSykes

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Glad to see this thread. It is a problem and if you look at what kind of injuries these are – they are rarely inflicted by the opponents and that's a very, very, concerning issue. It means our coaching staff is shite. Fitness training, recovery, making sure team doesn't overstretch itself - the basic science that all modern teams have mastered is clearly a black magic at United.

This is unacceptable
Absolutley, it's ridiculous in this day and age that one of the richest clubs in the world can't get this right, we've had a bloody shocking injury record since 2011, and it won't change anytime soon. Mourinho publically mentioned this and everone at the time slated him and said it was another scapegoat, but the evidence is there right in front of us.

It'll be brushed under the carpet and nothing will be done about it, i feel like the sports science team we have are working with a kids weird science playset and a physio for dummies book.... i can't think of any other reasons they'd be so shit.

Fitness Regime to an extent.... but come on!!
 

MadDogg

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Absolutley, it's ridiculous in this day and age that one of the richest clubs in the world can't get this right, we've had a bloody shocking injury record since 2011, and it won't change anytime soon. Mourinho publically mentioned this and everone at the time slated him and said it was another scapegoat, but the evidence is there right in front of us.
Seems to have happened since at least 06/07. It very well could have been happening even before that, but 06/07 was the first year I noticed our defensive crisis with almost all our defenders getting injured all at once. Quite likely cost us the CL that season, as it was our patched-up defence that allowed Milan to beat us in the semi. We've since had that same defensive crisis every season except maybe 15/16 where we did have issues with the fullbacks but at least the Smalling-Blind combination in the centre played almost every match.
 

noodlehair

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We have injury problems for a decade or more, there is either something wrong with the medical team, the training facilities our training methods or the turf we play on. Or likely a combination of all four.
Again, in the case of this season there is barely an injury crisis except for the terrible state we have left the squad in.

Presuming Martial is back, Bissaka is back, then from our first choice starting line up we have De Gea, Pogba and Shaw missing. Three players is not an injury crisis. It only looks like a problem because our midfield and attack is so desperately light that even with no one injured it looks like we're on our last legs.

Here's the real problem. Midfielders bought since SAF retired:
Fellaini
Blind
Herrera
Schneiderlin
Schweinsteiger
Pogba
Matic
Fred

Forwards signed since SAF retired:
Mata
Di Maria
Falcao
Martial
Depay
Mhikitaryan
Lukaku
Sanchez
Zlatan
James

Of the 18 players above, only 6 are still at the club! ...and 5 of them aren't injured. 3 of our 4 senior midfielders are fit and 4 of our 5 senior attacking players are fit. Take one player out of Liverpool's midfield and attack and it doesn't exactly look like a crisis even if you pick the best one of each.

We are asking a tiny crop of players to play 60 odd games in a season. Firstly, if any one gets injured it creates a crisis, and secondly, the fact there are so few of them creates additional pressure and demand which makes injuries more likely. We can have the best medical staff in the world and neither of these things will change.
 

Leftback99

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Again, in the case of this season there is barely an injury crisis except for the terrible state we have left the squad in.

Presuming Martial is back, Bissaka is back, then from our first choice starting line up we have De Gea, Pogba and Shaw missing. Three players is not an injury crisis. It only looks like a problem because our midfield and attack is so desperately light that even with no one injured it looks like we're on our last legs.

Here's the real problem. Midfielders bought since SAF retired:
Fellaini
Blind
Herrera
Schneiderlin
Schweinsteiger
Pogba
Matic
Fred

Forwards signed since SAF retired:
Mata
Di Maria
Falcao
Martial
Depay
Mhikitaryan
Lukaku
Sanchez
Zlatan
James

Of the 18 players above, only 6 are still at the club! ...and 5 of them aren't injured. 3 of our 4 senior midfielders are fit and 4 of our 5 senior attacking players are fit. Take one player out of Liverpool's midfield and attack and it doesn't exactly look like a crisis even if you pick the best one of each.

We are asking a tiny crop of players to play 60 odd games in a season. Firstly, if any one gets injured it creates a crisis, and secondly, the fact there are so few of them creates additional pressure and demand which makes injuries more likely. We can have the best medical staff in the world and neither of these things will change.
Quite startling when you put it like that. And we wonder why our attack is so bad and we struggle for goals.

6 years of transfers since RVP carried us to the title and the net result of investment in our forward line is having Mata, Martial and James to show for it.