Internationals June (Euro Qualifiers + Nations League Finals)

Classical Mechanic

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The playoffs have 4 teams and only 1 makes it through. It's basically 2 one off games, fairly easy to miss out if teams don't qualify automatically.

It only takes one or two bad games and the dutch could easily miss out on going to the Euros for example.
But most of the top sides will qualify anyway so the playoff places are passed on down the leagues to the weaker nations.
 

AshRK

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This playoff stuff is very confusing. So being in league A is not a good thing then because you have to face tougher opposition and if you are in play offs from path A you get to play tougher opposition. Very confusing.
 

ctp

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This playoff stuff is very confusing. So being in league A is not a good thing then because you have to face tougher opposition and if you are in play offs from path A you get to play tougher opposition. Very confusing.
It depends. If you're the only league A team missing out, you should have it pretty easy. Otherwise it's harder.
 

Peyroteo

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To be fair, that was already the case with the previous system for a 24 team Euros.
It's actually tougher to qualify for the top teams now than it was for 2016. In 2016 if they got third there was a ranked playoff where the top ranked teams would play the bottom ranked teams. Now if they don't finish top 2, they're out unless they finish first in the Nations League group. And even with the Nations League playoff insurance, the top ranked teams will have to play two different top ranked teams in the playoffs while the bottom ranked teams play eachother.

To clarify, as of now:

If Kosovo don't finish top 2 in their groups, they'll have a playoff tournament with Macedonia, Georgia and Belarus where only 1 makes it through.

If Holland doesn't finish top 2 in their groups, they'll have a playoff tournament with Portugal, Croatia and Switzerland where only 1 makes it through.
 
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FlawlessThaw

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So we still have a situation where one of Georgia, Kosovo, North Macedonia or Belarus make it to 2020?
 

AshRK

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It's actually tougher to qualify for the top teams now than it was for 2016. In 2016 if they got third there was a ranked playoff where the top ranked teams would be played the bottom ranked teams. Now if they don't finish top 2, they're out unless they finish first in the Nations League group. And even with the Nations League playoff insurance, the top ranked teams will have to play two different top ranked teams in the playoffs while the bottom ranked teams play eachother.

To clarify:

If Kosovo don't finish top 2 in their groups, they'll have a playoff tournament with Macedonia, Georgia and Bielorrussia where only 1 makes it through.

If Holland doesn't finish top 2 in their groups, they'll have a playoff tournament with Portugal, Croatia and Switzerland where only 1 makes it through.
And that is very strange.
 

Peyroteo

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And that is very strange.
Very.

One of Kosovo, Macedonia, Belarus and Georgia will make it to the Euros while we're guaranteed that better teams will miss out on qualification purely because of the format.
 

RobinLFC

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So we still have a situation where one of Georgia, Kosovo, North Macedonia or Belarus make it to 2020?
Kosovo is on a 14 game unbeaten run, or so I read last night at least. Don't know the opponents but it stretched back to November 2017 or something like that, quite impressive.
 

ctp

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I'll do a mock-up with the Dutchies missing out (:lol:):
Qualified teams: England, Czechs (A); Portugal, Ukraine (B); Germany, N Ireland (C); Swiss, Ireland (D); Croatia, Hungary (E); Spain, Sweden (F); Poland, Austria (G); France, Turkey (H); Belgium, Russia (I); Italy, Finland (J)

League D playoffs: Georgia, N Macedonia, Kosovo, Belarus (all group winners)
League C playoffs: Scotland, Norway, Serbia, Bulgaria (3 group winners, 1 runner-up)
League B playoffs: Bosnia, Denmark, Wales, Slovakia (2 group winners, 1 runner-up, 1 third place)
League A playoffs: Holland, Iceland, Israel, Romania (1 group winner, 1 third place, 2 league C teams)
 

AshRK

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Very.

One of Kosovo, Macedonia, Belarus and Georgia will make it to the Euros while we're guaranteed that better teams will miss out on qualification purely because of the format.
Higher you are ranked, higher the chances you would not qualify. Never ever seen such format.
 

Peyroteo

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I'll do a mock-up with the Dutchies missing out (:lol:):
Qualified teams: England, Czechs (A); Portugal, Ukraine (B); Germany, N Ireland (C); Swiss, Ireland (D); Croatia, Hungary (E); Spain, Sweden (F); Poland, Austria (G); France, Turkey (H); Belgium, Russia (I); Italy, Finland (J)

League D playoffs: Georgia, N Macedonia, Kosovo, Belarus (all group winners)
League C playoffs: Scotland, Norway, Serbia, Bulgaria (3 group winners, 1 runner-up)
League B playoffs: Bosnia, Denmark, Wales, Slovakia (2 group winners, 1 runner-up, 1 third place)
League A playoffs: Holland, Iceland, Israel, Romania (1 group winner, 1 third place, 2 league C teams)
Wouldn't Bosnia and Denmark be the ones in League A playoffs while Israel and Romania would be in League B playoffs?
 

ctp

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Higher you are ranked, higher the chances you would not qualify. Never ever seen such format.
A higher rank gives you better seeding for the normal qualifiers though. It's only easier for a couple of spots from league C and D.
 

ctp

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Wouldn't Bosnia and Denmark would be the ones in League A playoffs while Israel and Romania would be in League B playoffs?
No.
Based on the Nations League rankings, the 16 selected teams will be chosen as follows, starting with League D and working up to League A:[6]

  1. All available group winners will be selected.
  2. If a group winner has already qualified through the UEFA Euro 2020 qualifying group stage, they will be replaced by the next best-ranked team from the same league which has not also already qualified.
  3. If fewer than four teams from a given league have failed to qualify, then the remaining spaces for that league will be allocated by the overall ranking:
    1. If the league has a group winner selected for the play-offs, the next best team in the overall ranking from a lower league will be selected.
    2. If the league has no group winner available, the best team in the overall ranking will be selected.
 

AshRK

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A higher rank gives you better seeding for the normal qualifiers though. It's only easier for a couple of spots from league C and D.
But why not the same case in playoffs. So if both Dutch and Croatia miss out on automatic qualifying route, they would have to compete against each other for one spot but if you are Belarus and Georgia you still have another chance to qualify by facing lower ranked side. This is getting even more weird considering I am starting to understand it now.
 

ctp

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But why not the same case in playoffs. So if both Dutch and Croatia miss out on automatic qualifying route, they would have to compete against each other for one spot but if you are Belarus and Georgia you still have another chance to qualify by facing lower ranked side. This is getting even more weird considering I am starting to understand it now.
I think the explicit purpose is to give a minnow a taste of the Euros they otherwise wouldn't get. And the league D team will probably be the only real outlier, so it's not that big a deal.
 

Samid

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It's actually tougher to qualify for the top teams now than it was for 2016. In 2016 if they got third there was a ranked playoff where the top ranked teams would play the bottom ranked teams. Now if they don't finish top 2, they're out unless they finish first in the Nations League group. And even with the Nations League playoff insurance, the top ranked teams will have to play two different top ranked teams in the playoffs while the bottom ranked teams play eachother.

To clarify, as of now:

If Kosovo don't finish top 2 in their groups, they'll have a playoff tournament with Macedonia, Georgia and Belarus where only 1 makes it through.

If Holland doesn't finish top 2 in their groups, they'll have a playoff tournament with Portugal, Croatia and Switzerland where only 1 makes it through.
'As of now' isn't really relevant at the moment because a lot of those are several games behind because of the NL finals.

Most of the bolded teams will make it through the normal route. Holland just need 9 points from Belarus/2xEstonia and 4 points from Northern Ireland.
 

AshRK

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I think the explicit purpose is to give a minnow a taste of the Euros they otherwise wouldn't get. And the league D team will probably be the only real outlier, so it's not that big a deal.
That's all good but it should also be logical which is completely lacking with this. Ok Let us not even discuss about the top teams. Let us talk about teams from Path C who are last ranked in that path. SO a Slovenia or Lithuania have less chance of competing in playoffs than say Luxembourg and Armenia even though the former are ranked 38/39 respectively, higher than latter. So how is it fair on Lithuania who are also a minnow. Maybe next time countries should be careful of not being ranked 38 or 39 and try to play more crap so that they can be in path D.
 

Samid

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That's all good but it should also be logical which is completely lacking with this. Ok Let us not even discuss about the top teams. Let us talk about teams from Path C who are last ranked in that path. SO a Slovenia or Lithuania have less chance of competing in playoffs than say Luxembourg and Armenia even though the former are ranked 38/39 respectively, higher than latter. So how is it fair on Lithuania who are also a minnow.
It's not like those leagues are permanent. Lithuania got relegated to league D so they'll be in the minnow league for the next qualifiers.
 

AshRK

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It's not like those leagues are permanent. Lithuania got relegated to league D so they'll be in the minnow league for the next qualifiers.
That's awesome for them then. It's better to be relegated and be in league D than be last in League C.
 

André Dominguez

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UEFA got themselves into this mess by changing the rules. Direct qualifying (as promised) would be more fair and it would guarantee that all teams would give 100% in the Nation's League. Changing to a playoff spot will demotivate top teams to take the competition less seriously. For second tier teams like Portugal and Holland is still a decent prize since it's not that unusual for us to fail qualification.
 

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UEFA got themselves into this mess by changing the rules. Direct qualifying (as promised) would be more fair and it would guarantee that all teams would give 100% in the Nation's League. Changing to a playoff spot will demotivate top teams to take the competition less seriously. For second tier teams like Portugal and Holland is still a decent prize since it's not that unusual for us to fail qualification.
Not that I disagree with that, but last time we missed a competition was France 98. Now if we lose on Serbia I am starting to believe we’re going to need a playoff. Hope not.
 

André Dominguez

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Not that I disagree with that, but last time we missed a competition was France 98. Now if we lose on Serbia I am starting to believe we’re going to need a playoff. Hope not.
True, but a some of those qualifyings were through playoffs and there were a lot of last games maths involved.
 

FootballHQ

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Do Northern Ireland have any hope of play offs if they finish 3rd? What about Wales? Understanding nations league general format took me about six months to work out so feck trying to understand all this "passing down" play off spots. :lol:
 

André Dominguez

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Do Northern Ireland have any hope of play offs if they finish 3rd? What about Wales? Understanding nations league general format took me about six months to work out so feck trying to understand all this "passing down" play off spots. :lol:
The passing down it's a poor decision IMHO. Teams like France, Germany, Spain, Italy and even England will not take this competition that seriously without that motivation. For those teams, a bad groups stage is a playoff spot. For teams like us, Holland, Croatia, etc a bad groups stage is to fail to qualify to playoffs.
 

FootballHQ

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Yes have to say that's another thing I don't get, teams like Scotland who won the individual groups get shot in play offs against reasonable simple oppositon (think they could play Bulgaria or Norway as it stands) yet the overall winners of competition don't get automatic spot and as you say get a way harder play off.
 

ctp

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Do Northern Ireland have any hope of play offs if they finish 3rd? What about Wales? Understanding nations league general format took me about six months to work out so feck trying to understand all this "passing down" play off spots. :lol:
Yes. All league A and B teams that don't qualify are extremely likely to get a playoff spot. You'd need more than eight of those 24 teams to miss out for that not to be the case.
 

Peyroteo

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It’s definitely an unfair system but those playoffs will turn out to be must-watch games.

One-off matches for a place in the Euros between teams of similar quality, guaranteed drama.