Is a fit in-form Jones ahead of Maguire?

[Chesterlestreet]

Jones can't stay fit, but was a much, much bigger talent than Maguire.

I agree with that, certainly.

In an ideal world, where Jones stays fit and a top manager/coach remains in charge, he's potentially a top, top player.

In reality, however...

He hasn't developed properly because of the injuries - which means that he still has weaknesses/flaws that should've been ironed out years ago. The fact is that he's sorely lacking in (match) experience for a player his age.

 

[Revaulx]

No.

I’ve got a (probably irrational) hunch that he (Jones) will be quite an important player for us this season though. As long as he’s not injured (lolz) he’s a very useful player to have as cover as he seems to be able to come into the team from cold and immediately be up to speed; he doesn’t need a run of games to get going.

We aren’t going to be able to sell him anyway; there’s a much better chance of Bailly and/or Axel finding buyers. So we might as well make the best of it.

 

[wolvored]

Phil Jones has 3 own goals in the EPL, 1 in the FA cup and 1 or 2 in the UCL.
Harry Maguire made 16 errors leading to a goal last season until April. And yes, it's that bad.

Yes thats only counting Jones OG there. How many other mistakes has he made?

 

[AndySmith1990]

A decade later we're still hearing hypothetical questions relating to whether Jones can stay fit. Really hope we can find a buyer for him this summer

 

[Nytram Shakes]

Maguire is the captain as much as we lambast him he is going to get everyone opportunity at the start of the season to prove us all wrong, he will be starting most games for the foreseeable future.

 

[Uniquim]

I believe they are they same person. Never seen in the same lineup. Like Clark Kent and Batman. i did it on purpose.

 

[jem]

Maguire is twice the player if both are fit and on form. Jones always had a terrible error in him. Maguire had a bad season but hopefully that was it.

As has Maguire in the last two seasons.

 

[RacingClub]

It both were fit and in form I'd take Maguire personally.

Then again one is rarely fit and the other is rarely in form so it at least an interesting question in theory.

If I were in the market for a new CB
and both could be obtained for a similar amount I would back myself to turn Maguires form around, I can't say the same for turning Jones injuries around.

If I was playing a deep back line with some decent midfielders ahead I think Maguires form would pick up immediately, even more so if he wasn't my captain and I could get him for a non world record fee.

So all in all I would go for Harry because I think I could manage his weaknesses.

Edit to say that of all the players signed by Ole, Maguire has had the "Rawest" deal.

Paid too much for him, gave him the captaincy prematurely, no CDM cover in front, serious lack of defensive coaching, his lack of pace being exploited by playing too high in front of a goalkeeper who doesn't come off his line etc

 

[SirReginald]

A fit in form Jones? What year are we in?

 

[Crashoutcassius]

On the one hand I think, no obviously not at all. On the other hand, i think of those tik tok clips of de gea kicking the ball out instead of passing to maguire and my inner 9 year olds wants to get on the angry bandwagon

 

[el3mel]

First thread in the mains

And an awful one to start with, too.

 

[lex talionis]

Funny that this question comes up today as I was thinking about this over the weekend.

The best of Phil Jones is miles better than the Harry Maguire we saw last year. But does that Phil Jones even still exist? We just don't know. What we do know, however, is that Phil looked quite decent indeed in his one outing last season. I see no reason to ditch him now while we're in the process of a 1-2 season rebuild of the squad. Bailly yes, but not Jones.

But if the question is whether top form Jones is better than top form Maguire I'd have to say no, but I very much want to see Jones given a chance early in the season to show what he's got left.

 

[lysglimt]

Phil Jones barely played a game of football for 2 years, comes back and is man of the match. If not for his injuries, Phil Jones could have been a superb defender for us

 

[el3mel]

Maguire is the captain as much as we lambast him he is going to get everyone opportunity at the start of the season to prove us all wrong, he will be starting most games for the foreseeable future.

That's not really something that can give much optimism about the future.

 

[RonaldoVII]

As has Maguire in the last two seasons.

Never on Jones' number.

 

[dove]

No. Funny how the less you play the better you become here, I guess people just forget how shite some of them, including Jones are. He is not ahead of anyone and should be gone.

 

[jem]

Never on Jones' number.

Be interesting to compare the numbers (I have neither the time nor willpower, but still.)

 

[Ted Lasso]

And an awful one to start with, too.

You're my idol <3

 

[Nytram Shakes]

That's not really something that can give much optimism about the future.

It’s just what’s gonna happen and we have to hope it works out.

 

[Danish Wizard]

What if.... No-one knows what would have happened, if Jones didn't suffer all these injuries.
Spending that much time without matches and proper training will obviously have affected his development.
Did we actually ever see him get a full season under his belt, the question could be answered.
But for now, I would like to say Maguire is a better player. The way fans have treated him this last season is kind of stupid. He has been made the scapegoat for a team / club in desperate need of proper coaching and guidelines from top to bottom. Yes he made mistakes, but not all just because of him.

 

[EtH]

Four pages on a fit and in-form Phil Jones.

Fantastical.

 

[wolvored]

No. Funny how the less you play the better you become here, I guess people just forget how shite some of them, including Jones are. He is not ahead of anyone and should be gone.

Agree. Its like when you reminisce on the good ol days. The good parts seem a lot better and the bad parts not so bad. He has been a poor defender for us overall.

 

[buckooo1978]

From the little bits of evidence we have I'd say Jones' issues are as much mental as physical. Jones was solid enough in his day with an awkwardness and a mistake in him. Overall a good defender though.

Honestly ive not seen anything from Maguire during his career at United to say he's any better than Jones under Fergie. Last season for Maguire was the worst CB season in my lifetime and I'm 44 so the least said about it the better. How much of Maguire's issues are mental I wonder?

Jones confidence is shot though. He clearly needs a fresh start. It would be really really impressive if Ten Hag's team managed to bring him back and restore his confidence.

A feat of coaching we've not seen since the days of Fergie

 

[Andycoleno9]

How people keep forgetting what kind of defender Jones really is?
He is raw, his positioning is bad (which results with his famous last-ditch tackles) his technique and ball playing is awful and he tends to panic.
Every year it is the same. More he is injured, he is better and better in eyes of the fans.

 

[roonster09]

How people keep forgetting what kind of defender Jones really is?
He is raw, his positioning is bad (which results with his famous last-ditch tackles) his technique and ball playing is awful and he tends to panic.
Every year it is the same. More he is injured, he is better and better in eyes of the fans.

That's not Jones at all, because of all the memes, people forgot how good he was.

Shame about his injuries, he would have been one of the best CBs in the league and his ball playing was very good.

Anyways there is no "Fit" Jones. He has been injured for years and we won't be seeing fit Jones.

 

[lefty_jakobz]

Never rated HM and still don’t. Plays well enough for the NT, at times.

Of the two, if both are fit and inf orm id have Jones.

Jones had he been able to stay fit would no doubt would have been a legend come the end of his career.

I personally would rather keep Jones and sell HM (more likely getting a bigger fee for him than PJ), however I can actually see HM playing well under ETH and if that happens I would gladly hold my hat up!

 

[justsomebloke]

Good god no. People really go in extremes with their analysis of Jones from hating him for being injured and "stealing a wage" (as if his injuries are his fault) to really overrating his form when he has been free of injury and forgetting his catastrophic errors.

Sadly, the guy's best season for the club was his first and it's really been downhill ever since. Maguire is by far the better defender.

This.

 

[Someone]

Jones is an excellent defender, but he lost a lot of years to injuries and that had an impact.

I'd say Jones without injuries in his career would be our best defender without a doubt.

 

[Erictheking7]

For various reasons Jones didn't work out. Maguire still has time on his side to turn his poor form around.

 

[Forevergiggs1]

Not sure about the ball carrying. Jones was a bit of a force when he was rampaging down with the ball. Played pretty well as a RB for a bit.

Man marked Ronaldo home and away against Madrid in the champions and was MOTM both games. He's certainly a lot more versatile than Maquire

 

[CloneMC16]

No such thing as a fit and in form Jones. Jones has had his fair share of performances where he 's looked like a complete clown. Maguire is way ahead of him in the pecking order.

 

[SadlerMUFC]

The people on this site are absolutely ridiculous. I'd argue that a fit Varane doesn't even get ahead of Maguire. The agenda here is unbelievable. If our opponent scores, the muppets here don't look at why they scored, they look for reasons why they can blame Maguire. It's absoluely ridiculous. It's like the 85m came out of their pocket. Get over it. Maguire didn't set his own price and he didn't name himself captain. As for my first statement here, I'm sure many will argue that Varane is better, but I will say that he is only better by reputation. He did NOTHING last year to prove he was better. And for those of you scapegoating Maguire, we were much better with him than without. And now people want to ask if Jones is ahead of him? Get your head out of your arse for one second and actually watch some football. Maguire is NOT our problem. Our biggest problems come from having a keeper who doesn't talk, doesn't come off his line and has no feet, and that we don't have a proper DM in our squad. Maguire takes the blame because people don't like him. Plain and simple. But if you really are looking for what's best for this team and you watch the games without looking for reasons to blame him, you will quickly realize where the real problems come from. And the biggest issue isn't Maguire. It's the guy standing on the goal line behind him. But because most of you think you know more than you actually do about this game, you are fooled by the fact that while he is average to poor at every other aspect of his game, De Gea is still a good shot stopper. So because of that, you are all fooled into believing he isn't the problem yet we keep going through defender after defender. First Vidic and Rio weren't good enough anymore. Then Jones and Smalling. Then Bailly and Blind. Then Maguire and Lindelof. Then Maguire and Varane. When are you muppets going to wake up? That's right....first others have to tell you how to think then the herd mentality will kick in and you will pretend you knew this all along...

 

[Lyng]

No such thing as a fit and in form Jones. Jones has had his fair share of performances where he 's looked like a complete clown. Maguire is way ahead of him in the pecking order.

Jones was a fantastic defending talent before injuries ruined him.
Maguire was never as big a talent.
I also very much doubt Maguire will ever come even remotely close to as good a performance as we saw from Jones early on.

Sadly injuries ruined Jones and he should have been moved on long ago.

 

[CloneMC16]

Jones was a fantastic defending talent before injuries ruined him.
Maguire was never as big a talent.
I also very much doubt Maguire will ever come even remotely close to as good a performance as we saw from Jones early on.

Sadly injuries ruined Jones and he should have been moved on long ago.

That was 10 years ago. Jones is nowhere near that player now. Unless I'm misunderstanding this thread, it's asking if Jones could stay fit and in form now, would he be ahead of Maguire? The answer to that is no. Maguire will be a consistent starter for the coming season. I expect him to play the most out of all of our defenders. Maguire was awful in quite a few games last season, but I have hope that he'll play much better.

 

[el3mel]

You're my idol <3

Well, that's not possible, since I don't even write any threads here, so your trial to look cool and sarcastic fails miserably.

 

[el3mel]

It’s just what’s gonna happen and we have to hope it works out.

Ten Hag isn't going to be as patient with him as Ole if his performance stays as shit as it was last season.

 

[Fully Fledged]

Schrodinger's Jones.

If he's not fit enough to open the door himself he can fecking stay there.

 

[NinjaZombie]

Maguire is twice the player if both are fit and on form. Jones always had a terrible error in him. Maguire had a bad season but hopefully that was it.

And Maguire doesn't?

Ability wise, I'd say Jones shades it. Mentality wise, given Maguire's comments on his own performances and how different coaches still plays him so he's "doing something right" and compared to the fact that Phil Jones is one of the few United players now in the squad who've won the league and played under Alex Ferguson who was well known for placing emphasis on a player's mentality, I definitely prefer Phil Jones.

If Jones ability to keep fit was as good as Maguire, he'd probably be captain of United instead. And on merit and seniority too.

Has anyone considered how much of a factor the Maguire court case might be? Having something like that hanging over him can't help.

I guess it depends how many updates there are regarding the case so how often it reoccurs as a thought. Also what the potential range of outcomes might be.

Still, court case or not he won't suddenly become quick enough or turn fast enough and he should go!

 

[Nytram Shakes]

Ten Hag isn't going to be as patient with him as Ole if his performance stays as shit as it was last season.

Your guessing he isn’t going to be as patient as Ole, Rangnick, and Southgate for that matter have all been with him. We don’t know that. dropping a captain is a huge deal with most managers only do as a last resort.

Plus he may not have much choice not of our others defenders are these blinding beacons of hope, Varane was injury prone and patchy when he played. And let’s not forget we paid a world record fee for Maguire because players like Bailly, Lindelof and Jones we’re struggling.

So the likely hood is Maguire starts most games at least next season.

 

[lex talionis]

We'll see if we actually do bring in a CB this summer, but if we don't and either Maguire or Varane go down with injury it's not that hard to imagine Jones putting in a few decent performances. But no, you don't spend whatever we spent for Maguire and Varane -- maybe 130m between the two of them? -- and have them sit and watch Lindelof or Jones.