Is Casemiro the best holding midfielder of all time?

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MVBDX

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An absolute manbeast, and super savvy, definitely top 3.
 

Ayoba

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Not all time, but he's up there amongst the best.
 

TwoSheds

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He was nearly as good a player as peak Fernandinho. Playing in a 3 alongside one of the best CMs ever will certainly help boost your credibility though, people talking about better than Makelele :lol:

I never liked Makelele, his style really pissed me off, the Floyd Mayweather of midfield, but it doesn't mean he wasn't an incredible player. Casemiro isn't on his level defensively, not even close.
 

Iker Quesadillas

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He's one of the best at holding the Champions League trophy in his hands. All that matters to me.
 

rimaldo

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does it really matter? i mean it’s a position that we’ve never even felt was worth purchasing a player for. it’s like saying “is my ford fiesta with balloons for wheels is the best of its kind ever?”
 

Sandikan

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What is this obsession with trying to state that the current is the best ever?
 

Brophs

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does it really matter? i mean it’s a position that we’ve never even felt was worth purchasing a player for. it’s like saying “is my ford fiesta with balloons for wheels is the best of its kind ever?”
And instead of one of those little spare tyres, you’ve replaced one of the burst balloons with a Sports Direct condom.
 
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rimaldo

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And instead of one of those little spare three, you’ve replaced one of the burst balloons with a Sports Direct condom.
you must have bought the copy of the ‘max power’ magazine it was in. but everyone is wondering what did i do with the other 7 sports direct condoms that were in the box? have they been used elsewhere, so to speak?
 

Brophs

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you must have bought the copy of the ‘max power’ magazine it was in. but everyone is wondering what did i do with the other 7 sports direct condoms that were in the box? have they been used elsewhere, so to speak?
Sadly, like the Sports Direct mugs, they were just too big.
 

Okey

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Perfect foil for their current stellar midfield, but doesn't even feature on the fringes of GOAT holding midfielders. Not even close.
 

AdNani

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Since everyone has categorically voted no, I'm interested as to why the OP voted yes? @AdNani
ahaha i actually don't think he is, but i seen a tweet saying he was, and thought it was worthy of a discussion, He's arguably the most important piece in a hugely successful side, without him Madrid don't win anything near as much as they have.

I think he's got a case for being the best Pure Destroyer, but as has been mentioned there's more complete players who have played in the position.
 

KeanoMagicHat

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ahaha i actually don't think he is, but i seen a tweet saying he was, and thought it was worthy of a discussion, He's arguably the most important piece in a hugely successful side, without him Madrid don't win anything near as much as they have.

I think he's got a case for being the best Pure Destroyer, but as has been mentioned there's more complete players who have played in the position.
I think a lot of Real Madrid players seem to be thrown around as best evers now, especially on Twitter, just because over their Champions Leagues.

Ramos best defender ever, Marcelo best left-back ever, Casemiro best holding midfielder ever, Modric best midfielder ever, Benzema one of the best strikers ever, Ronaldo best player ever.

While football is at the end of the day all about winning trophies and the CL is the top of the pile in club football, having apparently all the best players in history like that makes them sound like some sort of unstoppable machine that was beating everyone by 3 and 4 goals and playing everyone off the pitch all the time, when that was far from the case, in fact their midfield was outplayed a few times, there was a lot of fortune, some lucky refereeing decisions in there, and the benefit of a great squad. You can win games without having the best player in every position in a team, game management in a tight game counts for a lot. Even Ferguson himself said that he only needed a certain number of top players to make a top team, then 2-3 players willing to do a job.

For example, the last Champions League they don't win without Camavinga and Rodrygo off the bench and Valverde in midfield helping out the famous trio. Different players played well in different moments to give them their trophies (Di Maria in 2014 another example).

Casemiro is slightly underrated by some people here though and by the end of his career he will be in the conversation, especially if he had a great tournament for Brazil in Qatar to go with his club success.
 

Litch

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Cant say cause ‘holding midfield’ in terms of football is quite a modern view on a position. It’s arguably a position that’s becoming less defined too.
 

Dannn411

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Matthaus is GOAT DM, so no. But Casemiro is definitely a great DM given the achievements. But its where to place him amongst the likes of Busquets, Makelele, Dunga, Xabi Alonso, Kante, etc.
 

André Dominguez

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Matthaus is GOAT DM, so no. But Casemiro is definitely a great DM given the achievements. But its where to place him amongst the likes of Busquets, Makelele, Dunga, Xabi Alonso, Kante, etc.
Was going to refer Matthaus too. One of the most complete player I've seen, could play superbly either as one of the defenders in a 3 at the back formation and was an amazing energetic anchor midfielder with the ability to make incisive passes and score some beauties.
Effenberg was also an extraordinary midfielder, not really Matthaus level, but clearly good enough to be a part of one of the best,

People often forget Desdchamps: he was a terrific defensive midfielder, not really bellow Makele IMO. Diego Simeone was amazing too, but he was more a destroyer. But he screened the pitch like no other and actually was a very accurate passer.

Not from seen him play, but my father always said that Neeskens was the best defensive midfielder he ever saw, but can't testify that.
 

Dannn411

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Kante? Really?
Why not? Anchor for 2 title-winning teams, a CL-winning team, a World cup winning team, a F.A.Cup winning team, a Europa league winning team and essentially a one-man midfield in his prime. He absolutely is up there with the greats.
 

MadMike

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Can't speak for before my time as a football fan but during it, Makelele and Redondo were both clearly better. I reckon Xabi Alonso was marginally better too.

He's better than Gravesen and L.Diarra though.
 

B20

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Its not called "the casemeiro role". I wonder why.
No one calls it the makelele role anymore either. And if anything it should be used as a perjorative - The decision to have a water carrier in midfield for whom it is acceptable to stick to simple five yard passes to the nearest team mate.
 

GatoLoco

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Strange timing for the thread given he's been fairly average for the past year or so. And no, he's not been as good as Busquets. Let alone the best of all time.
The thread title is an overreaction so the timing will never be right but Casemiro had very good performances vs Liverpool and Frankfurt so that probably inspired some to hail him of late (again).

Anyway, he has some very good traits not many people tend to value. Excellent decision making, positioning, dependability, versatility to play as CB, defensive midfielder and be an aerial threat in attack, focused in key games, excellent sweeper etc.

All-time great and it is only fair to say it even if others in his position may be more flashy to my eyes.
 

padr81

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Not even la ligas best of his generation. Great player mind and a legend in his position.
 

harms

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No … both were DMs who also played CB for a reasonable part of their careers. Matthaus did on rare occasions play B2B.
I’m sorry, but Matthäus playing as a B2B “on rare occasions” has to be one of the worst cases of rewriting history ever. He’s literally the greatest B2B of all-time who at his peak scored 15-20 goals per season and won Ballon d’Or in that exact role after leading West Germany to World Cup win.

Rijkaard is a bit of a tougher one since he did play both as an expansive B2B (for both Ajax & Milan) and as a DM (as well as a CB on occasion) at his peak. Plus his late stint at van Gaal’s Ajax as a holding midfielder was pretty great.
 

ilrm

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I’m sorry, but Matthäus playing as a B2B “on rare occasions” has to be one of the worst cases of rewriting history ever.
Lets look at a neutral source: https://www.transfermarkt.us/lothar-matthaus/profil/spieler/1527
Even when he played B2B, for the most part he was tasked with tackling higher up the pitch and passing it. He had a few excellent goal scoring seasons (because he was outstanding) but that doesn't mean his main job wasn't to tackle higher up the pitch. He was a DM/CB and rarely played B2B. It would be like Kante at Lecesiter scoring 15-20 goals. Kante's job was to tackle higher up the pitch but you wouldn't call him B2B.
Rijkaard is a bit of a tougher one since he did play both as an expansive B2B (for both Ajax & Milan) and as a DM (as well as a CB on occasion) at his peak. Plus his late stint at van Gaal’s Ajax as a holding midfielder was pretty great.
Rijkaard partnered Ancelotti in CM and Ancelotti was definitely an attack-minded B2B midfielder. I don't think Rijkaard has ever played as B2B at Milan.
If Carlo was injured then Colombo was generally shifted to CM (even though he was generally RW backup to Donadoni).
At Ajax (after Milan) he was a CB/DM and never a B2B - that was Seedorf/R De Boer/Musampa.
 

Daslogisch

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Not by a long shot. Casemiro is a good DM, but over history surely there are 20 better DMs at least.

Casemiro is one of the most successfull ones obviously. That's however more down to players like Ramos, Marcelo, Modric, Kroos, Benzema and CR7. They were the irreplaceble ones in those teams. Casemiro is a solid DM, but there could have been 10 other DMs in that team and they'd have won those prices.
 

GatoLoco

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Not by a long shot. Casemiro is a good DM, but over history surely there are 20 better DMs at least.

Casemiro is one of the most successfull ones obviously. That's however more down to players like Ramos, Marcelo, Modric, Kroos, Benzema and CR7. They were the irreplaceble ones in those teams. Casemiro is a solid DM, but there could have been 10 other DMs in that team and they'd have won those prices.
Which 10 names?
 
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