Is Daniel James set to become our best signing since RVP?

cheeky_backheel

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James is a different kind of player for clubs of different levels
- Core player for a mid-table championship team
- Regular starter for a top championship promotion team or relegation zone PL club
- Super Sub for bottom 3rd PL team
- Regular sub player for a midtable PL team
- Fringe player for EL competing team
- Ball boy for a CL/PL Chamionpship team

His value at United will depend on what kind of club we are
 

DRJosh

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Daniel James, as some others have said, was never meant to be a first-team signing. He came into the first team at a time when we lacked the passing repertoire of Pogba and Bruno, to create those incisive attacks. His injection of pace provided a route-one opportunity to hit on the counter. There was a period where people branded us as a "counter-attacking team" which was labelled as Ole's brand of football.

Things have since changed somewhat (at least for the first XI) now that we have Bruno and Pogba. Daniel James has time on his side to improve.
 

DevilRed

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Daniel James, as some others have said, was never meant to be a first-team signing. He came into the first team at a time when we lacked the passing repertoire of Pogba and Bruno, to create those incisive attacks. His injection of pace provided a route-one opportunity to hit on the counter. There was a period where people branded us as a "counter-attacking team" which was labelled as Ole's brand of football.

Things have since changed somewhat (at least for the first XI) now that we have Bruno and Pogba. Daniel James has time on his side to improve.
Well said. Dan has had his fair share of excellent performances, especially earlier in the season.

His pace is something else. Hasn't had much of a chance to use it lately, because we've just not been playing the ball over the top enough. We seem to be obsessed with short passing our way out the back, even when its not possible.

Sometimes it would be nice to mix it up and become more unpredictable.
 

Lentwood

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Daniel James has definitely contributed this season. Off the top of my head he must have combined double figures for goals and assists. Plus, he has played in all of our big wins and assists vs Liverpool and City away.

All of that being said, I’m not convinced that he will get much better and his base level is very average. I personally would be happy to keep him but open to offers...maybe Leeds would be keen?
 

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Daniel James has definitely contributed this season. Off the top of my head he must have combined double figures for goals and assists. Plus, he has played in all of our big wins and assists vs Liverpool and City away.

All of that being said, I’m not convinced that he will get much better and his base level is very average. I personally would be happy to keep him but open to offers...maybe Leeds would be keen?
We won those games in spite of him, not because of him. He had a good start, but has been found out pretty quickly. He was making assists off a relatively low amount of key passes. Many seem to be desperate for him to succeed, but he's offered no more than Andreas Pereira this season.
 

Lentwood

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We won those games in spite of him, not because of him. He had a good start, but has been found out pretty quickly. He was making assists off a relatively low amount of key passes. Many seem to be desperate for him to succeed, but he's offered no more than Andreas Pereira this season.
Well that’s my whole point - he HAS offered more than Pereira, Lingard and Mata. That’s not an opinion. Check the goals/assists stats.

However, I do agree with the general sentiment that he’s not the level required. Being better than that motley crew means nothing really!
 

treble_winner

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Just runs around like a headless chicken. He think he got pace and that will get him past people. Walcott made the same mistake. At least the latter could play a little so he was useful sometimes. Should have just let James go to Leeds. This is not his level clearly. He is miles behind.
He was a 'ole it's giggsy. buy James he runs fast Welsh and needs experience in top ganes'. Can't see him improving enough either. He's as old as rashford and Sancho and greenwood are way ahead of him skill wise
At the very least, a loan. We should move on from him as he’s not going to cut it. He’s shown very little footballing potential.
So is he the first among players Ole signed to join the "Deadwood" list of CAF? :rolleyes:
 

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I totally disagree with everything you said there. Some players just don't become good regardless of the time. Sure, it might be fair to give him time same as we gave to Bebe and Obertan, but it is gonna end the same way. He just lacks most of the attributes to be a decent squad player, let alone more.

I don't think we ever relied on him. He had a decent start when he scored the fourth goal against Chelsea in a match won half an hour became he got in, and then scored another a goa in a draw and another one in a defeat, so he got us a grand total of one point during that period you are claiming that he was our best player and we relied on him to get us points.
Worth noting that he's already played more games for United than those two combined.
I think they probably didn't account for Martial and Rashford both being injured for lengthly periods or Lingard offering so little.
I think any of us could have told them to expect that one.
 

Inigo Montoya

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Well that’s my whole point - he HAS offered more than Pereira, Lingard and Mata. That’s not an opinion. Check the goals/assists stats.

However, I do agree with the general sentiment that he’s not the level required. Being better than that motley crew means nothing really!
Peak level Mata is on a higher level to James. Completely different style of player but Mata is streets ahead
 

Mike Oxard

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He represents where we currently are. Average/decent player, but not ‘top’. He wouldn’t get into a better team (in fact, he’s not really getting into Utd’s team these days very often). He should be moved on.
 

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He represents where we currently are. Average/decent player, but not ‘top’. He wouldn’t get into a better team (in fact, he’s not really getting into Utd’s team these days very often). He should be moved on.
why would we write off a 22 year old after his first season in top flight football. He was also extremely effective at the start of the campaign, he just needs to improve and should be given a chance to.
 

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James needs coaching, lots and lots of it - I don't think games like yesterday are fair on him, either. If wanted to go with a 2, he shouldn't have even been a consideration, given the attributes needed to play whilst absolutely surrounded by opposition laser-focused on you and your strike partner.

If you're going to utilise James, you put him out there as wide as possible against as tired a set of opposing legs as possible (impact sub), or, you start him purely with the intention of tiring out his markers or pre-occupying them with his pace.

Putting him in highly technical, pressure-laden positions, that aren't his own, is basically sending him to war without equipment. You can't blame the player for that.

I don't know if he's been 'figured out' or has simply exhausted his very small arsenal. He doesn't have Bale's smarts to utilise kick-and-rush type football, and he doesn't have the technical ability to keep markers guessing, so in that regard, he's basically fecked and he is probably aware and overthinking things because of those limitations. I think it's also pretty apparent the confidence in what he was doing has been absolutely drained out of him, so even within his own sphere of ability, he's not at 100%.

I don't think he'll be at the club in 18 months, because even if he does develop some, he's going to have (potentially) four players, both starters and their rotation partners ahead of him i.e. Sancho/Greenwood on one side (hypothetically) and Rashford/Martial/Chong/New signing or academy product on the other. There's no chance he can usurp the first four under any circumstance except injury/fatigue and the role of 'pace merchant off the bench' is just anachronistic, for all intents and purposes.
 

Mike Oxard

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why would we write off a 22 year old after his first season in top flight football. He was also extremely effective at the start of the campaign, he just needs to improve and should be given a chance to.
He is a classic example of a player being ‘over lauded’ at the start after a couple of goals/encouraging performances and then fading back into his general standard of mediocrity. I feel sorry for him. He could never live up to the hype that the likes of Giggs was giving him. Squad player at best and he’d probably have a better career if he was at at club like Newcastle or Villa.
 

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He is a classic example of a player being ‘over lauded’ at the start after a couple of goals/encouraging performances and then fading back into his general standard of mediocrity. I feel sorry for him. He could never live up to the hype that the likes of Giggs was giving him. Squad player at best and he’d probably have a better career if he was at at club like Newcastle or Villa.
Giggs didn't really give him massive hype? He just said he had potential. I don't think any one expected him to be anything but a squad player when he came, he just forced himself into the side. I think you seem like the one who's put hype he could never live up to.
 

Devil81

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Reminds me of the Bellion signing from the Sir Alex days, nothing but pace and just looks totally out of his depth. He doesn't even look like he can improve as he's that bad at the basics I don't believe it's something that can be improved.

If he chases a ball into the corner he literally has no skill or ability to get past the full-back. Yesterday was his worst game as of yet, I know he wasn't alone but he literally offered nothing to the team.

There were rumours of Van Nistelrooy being a complete twat with Bellion, I remember hearing stories he told him he was shit and shouldn't be at the club. I wonder if the other teammates of James feel the same, it's glaringly obvious he's a level or two below most of the first team. The pressure must be immense on him every day in training as you'd imagine he'd be struggling day by day as well.
 

Carl S Bridge

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It's like playing Pogba at CDM.
He is consistently less effective there.
But people will say, "it still is in midfield, not much difference, not far from his best CM position."

James is much more effective playing on the left, Ole's favourite Rashford's position.
RW and LW are two different positions.
"But but it's just playing on the wing, just different side."

It's different. You won't get it.
Ole's favourite? Surely your not suggesting that rashfords only playing ahead of Dan James for that reason
 

KevinJoh

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Ffs, reallly, we came from Van Persie level of signing to Bellion in less then a year :)

James is a player with potential. Player that doesn't have too much experience at all, especially at this level and a player that doesn't have too many different skills in his backpack. What he has is a few good things and young age so he can improve the rest. He has pace, he has good cross while moving at high speed, defensively he is pretty good at this age, brave and hardworking. He can improve a lot in his game for sure, he can add a few skills, he can pass better and understand game better, but with proper shift of our coaches he can do it. Looks to me like he is the boy that is not afraid of hard working.

And, while I understand that in current 'fan internet' setup only the last game counts and you are as good as your last game, kid had a few great performances at the start of the season. In the meantime, there is fatigue issue, teams taking a look at his game, losing confidence, getting out of form...it happens. Nothing that can't be fixed in the preseason working with proper coaches. 11 goal contributions for a winger is pretty good for his first season in elite competition, I would be happy with similar numbers next year, or even worse with improvement in the playing style. Ridiculous good signing for 15m in the opening season.
 

Mike Oxard

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Giggs didn't really give him massive hype? He just said he had potential. I don't think any one expected him to be anything but a squad player when he came, he just forced himself into the side. I think you seem like the one who's put hype he could never live up to.
Giggs said that James ‘reminded him of a young Christian Ronaldo’. Seems pretty hyped up to me. In my view, he reminds me of a young Forest Gump.
 

poleglass red

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Giggs said that James ‘reminded him of a young Christian Ronaldo’. Seems pretty hyped up to me. In my view, he reminds me of a young Forest Gump.
his comparison was in regards to how often they draw fouls from opposition defence due to their speed.
 

Mike Oxard

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his comparison was in regards to how often they draw fouls from opposition defence due to their speed.
Well, actually, there was a bit more to it than that. The comments were in context of the fouls Ronaldo got, but Giggs was also talking about his ‘bravery’ and his ‘pace and dribbling ability’ in the same comment. He also, if I recall correctly, described the signing of James as a ‘no brainer’. That type of thing is hype I’m afraid. We haven’t got a Ronaldo, but we might have a poor man’s Darren Huckerby. To be fair, whilst that type of player is not where we want to be, it probably illustrates where we are.
 

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He represents where we currently are. Average/decent player, but not ‘top’. He wouldn’t get into a better team (in fact, he’s not really getting into Utd’s team these days very often). He should be moved on.
I don't agree with that. I think he is well below our current level. He looks so far out of his depth.

We've beaten quite a few teams convincingly in the last few games. I doubt James has it in him to get many games for those teams.
 

McGrathsipan

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James needs coaching, lots and lots of it - I don't think games like yesterday are fair on him, either. If wanted to go with a 2, he shouldn't have even been a consideration, given the attributes needed to play whilst absolutely surrounded by opposition laser-focused on you and your strike partner.

If you're going to utilise James, you put him out there as wide as possible against as tired a set of opposing legs as possible (impact sub), or, you start him purely with the intention of tiring out his markers or pre-occupying them with his pace.

Putting him in highly technical, pressure-laden positions, that aren't his own, is basically sending him to war without equipment. You can't blame the player for that.

I don't know if he's been 'figured out' or has simply exhausted his very small arsenal. He doesn't have Bale's smarts to utilise kick-and-rush type football, and he doesn't have the technical ability to keep markers guessing, so in that regard, he's basically fecked and he is probably aware and overthinking things because of those limitations. I think it's also pretty apparent the confidence in what he was doing has been absolutely drained out of him, so even within his own sphere of ability, he's not at 100%.

I don't think he'll be at the club in 18 months, because even if he does develop some, he's going to have (potentially) four players, both starters and their rotation partners ahead of him i.e. Sancho/Greenwood on one side (hypothetically) and Rashford/Martial/Chong/New signing or academy product on the other. There's no chance he can usurp the first four under any circumstance except injury/fatigue and the role of 'pace merchant off the bench' is just anachronistic, for all intents and purposes.
hes either good enough or in his case he isnt - and yeah he cant be blamed for not being good enough, but he shouldn't be on the pitch for a United first 11 at the business end of a competition.
He might be one to develop and sell on at a profit - I dont think he has what it takes to be a regular player over time for a club like United.
 

Devil81

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Look at it this way, we currently have to bridge the gap between us and City and Liverpool.

Regardless of what people say about development and ability, does anyone see James getting any game time at all at either of the two clubs we are hoping to challenge for the title?

I don't think he'd get a single minute for either side so based on that I wouldn't even bother with a loan, I'd sell him and give his place to one of the developing youngsters at the club.
 

jesperjaap

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Reminds me of the Bellion signing from the Sir Alex days, nothing but pace and just looks totally out of his depth. He doesn't even look like he can improve as he's that bad at the basics I don't believe it's something that can be improved.

If he chases a ball into the corner he literally has no skill or ability to get past the full-back. Yesterday was his worst game as of yet, I know he wasn't alone but he literally offered nothing to the team.

There were rumours of Van Nistelrooy being a complete twat with Bellion, I remember hearing stories he told him he was shit and shouldn't be at the club. I wonder if the other teammates of James feel the same, it's glaringly obvious he's a level or two below most of the first team. The pressure must be immense on him every day in training as you'd imagine he'd be struggling day by day as well.
He is different to Bellion but I wholeheartedly agree with you. Have to say this is perhaps the worst thread headline I have ever seen as well, must have been doen when he scored a couple of goals early in the season.

He reminds me of a rubbish version of Walcott, electric pace, not a bad finisher but not as good on either.....but does work harder than him, so more of a team player.

Its all very well saying he wasnt bought to be a starter, was bought for the counter attack, give him time etc etc........This is Manchester United we are talking about. Had never heard of him to be honest when we signed him and am all for signing these young players for decent fees, but I wonder what an earth we scouted personally? Love to be proven wrong but I really see little potential there at all. His first touch is poor, his vision is poor, his quick short passing is poor, his crossing is average at best, his movement is average at best. Lots of these things can be improved but not all of them and to me he is a good championship player, I really cant think of many sides in the premiership he would start for and with that in mind, why should he be at our club?
I would most certainly bet that within a couple of seasons he moves
 

He'sRaldo

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It's like playing Pogba at CDM.
He is consistently less effective there.
But people will say, "it still is in midfield, not much difference, not far from his best CM position."

James is much more effective playing on the left, Ole's favourite Rashford's position.
RW and LW are two different positions.
"But but it's just playing on the wing, just different side."

It's different. You won't get it.
Spot on once again. It's like when Martial didn't perform on the right and was dropped by Mourinho. People blamed the player when it was clear the manager played him out of position.

I'm not saying Dan James is going to be good or not, but it's simple. Either let him develop on the left as Rashford's backup, or don't play him.

Ole has thrown him to the wolves this season.
 

Godfather

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Spot on once again.

Either let him develop on the left as Rashford's backup, or don't play him.

Ole has thrown him to the wolves this season.
Meh. He could at least try and do anything of note no matter where he is played. I just think he is not all that good at football in all honesty.
 

He'sRaldo

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Meh. He could at least try and do anything of note no matter where he is played. I just think he is not all that good at football in all honesty.
Remember when Mourinho played our striker out of position? This is the exact response people would give when it was pointed out.

With that said, I'm not saying he's of the required level. But the best way to know is to stop playing him out of position and further ruining his confidence.
 

Devil81

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Spot on once again. It's like when Martial didn't perform on the right and was dropped by Mourinho. People blamed the player when it was clear the manager played him out of position.

I'm not saying Dan James is going to be good or not, but it's simple. Either let him develop on the left as Rashford's backup, or don't play him.

Ole has thrown him to the wolves this season.
Ole hasn't thrown him to the wolves at all, if anything Ole should be praised for giving him as many opportunities as he's actually had.

To be honest I thought Ole had seen enough when Lingard was given minutes on Thursday night instead of James.
 

TMDaines

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James needs coaching, lots and lots of it - I don't think games like yesterday are fair on him, either. If wanted to go with a 2, he shouldn't have even been a consideration, given the attributes needed to play whilst absolutely surrounded by opposition laser-focused on you and your strike partner.

If you're going to utilise James, you put him out there as wide as possible against as tired a set of opposing legs as possible (impact sub), or, you start him purely with the intention of tiring out his markers or pre-occupying them with his pace.

Putting him in highly technical, pressure-laden positions, that aren't his own, is basically sending him to war without equipment. You can't blame the player for that.
Right. He needs someone to do for him what Nuno has done for Traore. Simplify his game and focus on strengths. For me he is an orthodox winger who can hit a good pass or cross on the run. I said back in August that him scoring those early goals might not do him favours long term, because suddenly that's the expectation. I just don't see him as an inside left forward. He was best counterattacking on the right and feeding Martial and Rashford who are central or at the far post.
 

He'sRaldo

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Ole hasn't thrown him to the wolves at all, if anything Ole should be praised for giving him as many opportunities as he's actually had.

To be honest I thought Ole had seen enough when Lingard was given minutes on Thursday night instead of James.
I don't think he should be praised at all. He took a young left winger from the Championship with only one professional season, and then consistently played him in the wrong positions in his first season in the PL.

That's pretty much throwing a player to the wolves. I mean, read the reactions in this thread after Ole played him as a striker in the F.A Cup semi's purely because of his pace. It's like Ole is trying to turn him into a pace merchant.
 
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SAFMUTD

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It seems if he's not given a hell lot of space he's as useless as Lingard, he was a bet we lost it, sell him and move on.

I dont mind buying cheap gamble players, most of the time they wont work but once in a while it will and we'll end with a heck of a player for a bargain price.

My concern is that we dont tend to operate that way, we are not ruthless and cut ties with poor players I wouldnt be surprised if he's here until his 30s.
 

He'sRaldo

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@Devil81 Look at how he played at Swansea, the spaces he operated in.



That's a left winger. He can't play his natural game on the right or as a striker.
 

Water Melon

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He is either a very limited player or is being played on the wrong flank. Tunnel vision is a very diffucult quality to get rid of, especially for pacey players.
 

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hes either good enough or in his case he isnt - and yeah he cant be blamed for not being good enough, but he shouldn't be on the pitch for a United first 11 at the business end of a competition.
He might be one to develop and sell on at a profit - I dont think he has what it takes to be a regular player over time for a club like United.
It may well be the case he hasn't got it in him to be here, or even a PL player, but, and it's a fair but, at least judge him as a winger. Yesterday he was set up to fail because he has nothing about him to play as a striker or in a two right up front with defenders surrounding and giving absolutely no opportunity for him to use the attribute that got him a job as a professional (pace). You take that away from him and you're left with an underwhelming product who we already know needs an absolutely massive amount of coaching and development - we didn't need to see him get crushed in an incorrect position to have this verified.

If things continue along the current course, I can't see him being a profitable sale unless he's loaned out to a PL team, used correctly, and also aided in his development, but then, who is going to do all that for a loanee who's going back to another club at the end of it? I'm sure players on James' level are dotted around PL academies all across the country.

As things stand, I think he'll go back to the Championship with us taking a loss, unless he improves considerably over the next year to eighteen months.
Right. He needs someone to do for him what Nuno has done for Traore. Simplify his game and focus on strengths. For me he is an orthodox winger who can hit a good pass or cross on the run. I said back in August that him scoring those early goals might not do him favours long term, because suddenly that's the expectation. I just don't see him as an inside left forward. He was best counterattacking on the right and feeding Martial and Rashford who are central or at the far post.
Yes, he desperately needs space and an open game otherwise he looks lost out there. I don't think people are wrong in saying his fundamentals are simply not of PL standing, and I would add his mind and thinking time to that, too. The pace of the game and decision making he has to do in such small windows is compounding the issues he has on the technical and fundamental levels.

Not sure these are hurdles he can overcome, but who knows. Stranger things have happened.
 

EwanI Ted

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I really feel for James this season. He should have come into a settled team, been a regular sub who got 3 or 4 league starts plus a cup run to get some experience under his belt. If he'd done that and gotten a couple of goals/assists, that would have been a great introductory season. Instead he paid the price for our injury record, playing far more games than he was ready for, which seemed to hit his confidence. He's playing much worse now than at the start of the season.

As it is I think he has 4 goals and 6 assists so far. Those numbers are actually okay considering, I just hope he focusses on those and not on the times he was shunted into midfield with Mata and Lingard and asked to break down packed defences.
 

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It's tough judging him based on Chelsea alone. I feel that the tactics were clearly unfavorable to any attacking movement we might've had. Not saying that he's great or anything but yesterday wasn't the game to judge.

However, he needs to add something to his game to become a useful player for us. As things stand, everyone agrees that he has speed but its hardly visible as its never accompanied by a smart run or dribbling capabilities. His shooting and passing seem to be beyond sub-par and his pressing capability resembles Lingard where he buzzes around a lot but I can't remember a single instance of him robbing an opponent of the ball. Surely needs to step up or he'll be out soon.
 

Water Melon

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It may well be the case he hasn't got it in him to be here, or even a PL player, but, and it's a fair but, at least judge him as a winger. Yesterday he was set up to fail because he has nothing about him to play as a striker or in a two right up front with defenders surrounding and giving absolutely no opportunity for him to use the attribute that got him a job as a professional (pace). You take that away from him and you're left with an underwhelming product who we already know needs an absolutely massive amount of coaching and development - we didn't need to see him get crushed in an incorrect position to have this verified.

If things continue along the current course, I can't see him being a profitable sale unless he's loaned out to a PL team, used correctly, and also aided in his development, but then, who is going to do all that for a loanee who's going back to another club at the end of it? I'm sure players on James' level are dotted around PL academies all across the country.

As things stand, I think he'll go back to the Championship with us taking a loss, unless he improves considerably over the next year to eighteen months.

Yes, he desperately needs space and an open game otherwise he looks lost out there. I don't think people are wrong in saying his fundamentals are simply not of PL standing, and I would add his mind and thinking time to that, too. The pace of the game and decision making he has to do in such small windows is compounding the issues he has on the technical and fundamental levels.

Not sure these are hurdles he can overcome, but who knows. Stranger things have happened.
Decent analysis, agreed.
 

Mike Oxard

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I don't agree with that. I think he is well below our current level. He looks so far out of his depth.

We've beaten quite a few teams convincingly in the last few games. I doubt James has it in him to get many games for those teams.
We’ve beaten a string of canon fodder teams and we’ve mugged a couple of off form better teams. James can’t get a regular spot in the team but I don’t see him as being that much worse than most of the others. We won’t miss him if he goes. I could say the same about a number of other very average players who have cost us a lot more than James, but he’s 22 and still has a chance elsewhere.
 

LoneStar

Full Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2017
Messages
2,102
Threads like these should be banned from creation till 6 months after the transfer :lol:
 

GDaly95

Sexist Pig
Joined
May 1, 2013
Messages
3,912
Location
Wicklow, Ireland
He's so much better on the left.

For me, he'll be a valuable back-up left winger for years to come. Which is more important than it sounds!