Discussion in 'Football Forum' started by Paolo Di Canio, Aug 13, 2019.
Why be bothered about a career if you mugged off a big club for a fortune?
Genuine question, why are managers like Big Sam and Pulis routinely mocked? They’ve got a history of doing well at clubs.
They also have a history of either failure or stagnation, and their personalities and brand of football are ripe for mocking.
Of course not. He will get a job in any relegation fodder team when they sack their manager midway in the season. If not this season then the next one. These clubs are barely creative when they choose their manager.
Dinosaur as I understand it is not used about people who are old, it’s used about people who’s ideas are no longer relevant, yet are stuck in those ideas.
Neither is it normally used about ideas that are temporarily out of fashion or that tends to come and go.
Van Gaal’s football ideas are most of them today very fashionable. Even at a high age, he made a young Alkmaar side beat Dutch relative giants, and mind you, this is not the same as Suarez dominating eredivisie - the football theoretical level is very high at the top of Dutch football. The success with Holland just goes to show that his ideas were flexible enough to work both in a series with inexperienced youth, and in a cup with genious veterans and trudgers. One thing is to say that there are even more impressive feats out there, but a theoretical/philosophical ‘dinosaur’ would have no chance at such different recent acievements.
Mourinho’s ideas are seemingly not fashionable, yet Guardiola’s are. It’s due note that the international footballing discussion in the middle of the 2010’s were about wether Guardiola’s brand of possession football was ‘found out’ by the more cautious counter attacking football of Atletico, Real madrid, Leicester, and Bayern under Heynckes for instance. Conte and Mourinho were big names with current successes. The weight of high versus liw pressing, possession vs direct football etc are constantly going back and forth (or in developmental spirals), but to label a man ‘dinosaur’ whose ideas were good enough to win the PL in 2016 is just knee jerk when talking about football styles and ideas.
Besides, the well established facts that Mourinho got increasingly labile on a personal level, constantly had the limitation of using up his groups in the long run, and made a lot of misses (together with Woodgate and the scouting set up) in the market and in the end was not supported by the board, points towards that with all these failings, if his footballing ideas in addition to all this were ‘dinosauric’, we would have had no chance of winning EL, coming second in the PL ahead of Klopp, Poch and Conte, and we would be going down, not staying at sixth/seventh place when he was fired.
I would not want Mourinho back at OT as a tea lady even, but calling him a football dinosaur is ahistoric and can only cover up the challenges Man United face as a club these days.
“Sometimes our main tactic was the long, high, diagonal cross. It was embarrassing. In one home game against Fulham we had 81 crosses! I was thinking, why are we doing this? Andy Carroll doesn’t play for us!"
"Often he told us to play it long. Some players felt they kicked the ball long more than at any time in their career."
That's not how they played under Fergie... they weren't cross ridged under Fergie... they had freedom. In this game, for example, they were playing very strictly to the Moyes tactic. So they were following manager orders.
In fact under Fergie the midfield was important. Here they skip the midfield.
If Fergie was still manager and say he had Kevin De Bruyne... Kevin De Bruyne would be heavily involved... he would be the creative outlet in the centre midfield. Rooney non-existent. Any top midfielder would be invisible under that tactic.
I hope Moyes comes back to manage Manchester United one day. Wouldn't that be marvelous?
Certainly explains why Wenger hasn’t worked since.
He'll lead us to play off glory
He ruined that team and just about managed to pull it apart.
That team should have been dismantled carefully and piece by piece. Had we put the right manager in place at this point, signed just 1 dynamic midfielder, we should have won the league again. We had just walked the league by an absolute mile, we should have had someone in place a year earlier that sat with Fergie and planned for the rebuild with the same team behind him.
Right now I would kill for a 4231 with
--------Carrick---Anyone other than Fellaini
YES! Finally someone who understands.
Hopefully we never see the likes of him, McClaren, Pardew, Pulis, Big Sam managing in this country again, never mind the PL!!!
still 81 crosses in 1 game has to be a record. surely...
those were the days. city and iverpool destroyed united easily.
I don't think I've ever been as entertained by a score draw as that game against Fulham. It was fecking hilarious to watch as it happened. Moyes reaction to the late goal was epic over reaction to beating fecking Fulham and then they couldn't even hold the lead in the end.
Even if you'd won, it would have been embarrassing.
Big Sam is a different kettle of fish. He has never been relegated. He is a firefighter. When a club is struggling, bring Big Sam. He will save them. I remember him saying during this Bolton days that when we play a fantastic diagonal pass the press call it a "hoof" . When Arsenal "hoof" the ball up it is called a fantastic diagonal pass.
His Bolton team played very good and attractive football. It is a pity that we never got to see Sam with England and that may have put to bed many myths about the man or cemented his position as a good coach. He was always interesting after the match at least. Moyes was a bore.
Now odds on with the bookies after a flurry of bets to be next Everton manager. Surely they can’t be that stupid... https://www.oddschecker.com/football/football-specials/everton/next-permanent-manager
Why not? Forget everton. We hired him once
I really can't agree we would have won the league since we won the last one based on RVP's brilliance but yeah a thrid place finish and getting an insight to what should be improved for the 2014/15 campaign was something I was excpecting and this clown f... everything apart.
Obviously this is the sweetener to bring Fellaini back.
Still fresh off the back of Sir Alex, watching a game like that and then seeing him acting like that, it was nothing short of embarrassing.
We hired him & the present occupant. Let that sink in.
I had that feeling of embarassment that day after seeing his reaction and I kid you not when I tell you many caftards thought it was awesome would celebrate drawing at home vs Fulham like he had won the PL.
That moment epitomised how out of depth he was
He will be back no doubt.
I think he was expecting the sack after the game. Little did he know our board was even more incompetent
They deserve each other - will end in tears. Moyes to bring back all his old cronies.
At least that would have been a win.
Klopp was whooping it up to the crowd doing all noncy hands in the air stuff when you drew at home to some toilet not too long back.
Don't forget new age revisionism is that the whole team were on the verge of discombobulation, and that he did well to have us holding 7th...
Last minute equaliser at home to Baggies wasn't it?
And those things were part of his transformation. Let’s be honest, whilst it was funny back then - we aren’t laughing now are we?! I’d take a last min equaliser against a side like WBA, sage in the knowledge that a couple of years later we would be CL winners, top of the PL having won 18 odd games in a row...
Hindsight is a wonderful thing.
Nah it was funny as feck mate and still is now.
Hope they take him back, it would be hilarious considering how much he has been derided by Everton fans since he left.
Everton have a real bitter scumbag element to their fan base don't they. The way they got after Moyes, who owed them nothing, and left for one of the few clear step ups in the league. And to us who have never been a rival.
Fireman Sam .
Moyes will without doubt pop up somewhere sooner rather than later. Probably a fallen Premier league team marooned in midtable in the championship.
His type will never be off the merry go round for long.
Take Reading, Mark Hughes is now the favourite apparently. He's been sacked from some rubbish jobs in his last few goes, why not go for someone who isn't a failure?
United would have been champions by now if we had persisted with him.
Or so a certain poster thinks
It’s a horrible culture that gives British managers - no matter how much of a failure they now are - a seemingly infinite amount of chances at new clubs. This is despite the fact they will no doubt demand insane sums of money just to do a shit job and struggle to survive past 18 months.
Marco Silva seems to do alright without being British.
Does he? Why exactly? He got the Hull job and left. He then got the Watford job and the whole thing went to shambles with Everton courting him. Everton subsequently went for him when he was available. Can’t see him getting a job in England after Everton, not for a good while anyway.
Meanwhile, tonne of total failure British managers continue to go on the jobs merry-go-round. Are you just going to be willfully obtuse and pretend this doesn’t happen because you mentioned Marco Silva? Who by all accounts was a bizarre example.
My lot Wycombe are flying high in league 1 (2nd) having come up from league 2 2 years ago. We have most likely a bottom 4 in division budget so Ainsworth is doing excellently.
Why don't championship clubs look at him, rather than the Pardew, Hughes types who have been constantly sacked?
Don't get me wrong, I'm glad they're not at the moment, but surely Reading for instance should learn from going fancy name?
If Moyes is finished then so is our current manager.
Separate names with a comma.