Is David Moyes career finished in top level football?

shamans

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He is a manager of a higher level than the one we have now. It won't be a popular opinion but he wasn't given the opportunities Ole has been who is still managing to perform worse.
You are correct. It will be unpopular because Moyes became a meme. He was definitely a higher manager than Ole (comfortably mid table/top 8 level manager) and was not giving the time Ole has been given.

However, that's because Ole has been given way more time than he deserves and has not yet proven he is even a premier league level manager.
 

TwoSheds

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You are correct. It will be unpopular because Moyes became a meme. He was definitely a higher manager than Ole (comfortably mid table/top 8 level manager) and was not giving the time Ole has been given.

However, that's because Ole has been given way more time than he deserves and has not yet proven he is even a premier league level manager.
Oh feck off. You wouldn't know a decent manager if he came in and fired you if you think Moyes wasn't pitifully shite. Man should have been put in the stocks, he took the piss.
 

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You are correct. It will be unpopular because Moyes became a meme. He was definitely a higher manager than Ole (comfortably mid table/top 8 level manager) and was not giving the time Ole has been given.

However, that's because Ole has been given way more time than he deserves and has not yet proven he is even a premier league level manager.

Moyes was appointed in May 2013 and had two transfer windows before getting sacked in April 2014.

Solskjaer was appointed permanently in March 2019 and has had one transfer window.
 

Skills

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It's as much that as it is the fact United have changed managers several times since Moyes was appointed and there is now a wider recognition that simply changing the manager doesn't get to the root of the performance issues.
Actually, everytime we have changed manager we have actually seen an improvement in performance.

Its usually when they've started meddling with the makeup of the squad, bringing their own boys in and had enough time for their coaching to have an effect that the performances drop off.
 

Gio

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Actually, everytime we have changed manager we have actually seen an improvement in performance.

Its usually when they've started meddling with the makeup of the squad, bringing their own boys in and had enough time for their coaching to have an effect that the performances drop off.
Yeah, I'm talking over the medium to long term.
 

stevoc

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He has a Jan 2019 window.
Before he was appointed as a permanent manager, and only what 2-3 weeks after becoming interim manager.

You can hardly count that window as one in which he could have signed anyone to shape the squad. At the time no one thought he would be made permanent.

Moyes got too much time.
 

RedPed

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Before he was appointed as a permanent manager, and only what 2-3 weeks after becoming interim manager.

You can hardly count that window as one in which he could have signed anyone to shape the squad. At the time no one thought he would be made permanent.

Moyes got too much time.

Doesn't matter what you say about Moyes, Solskjaer is currently sitting on the worst United league start in 30-odd years. That's BEFORE the PL was even born. That is a fact.

I get that a lot of people have this blinkered and obsessive hatred towards Moyes but for me, even though he got us a trophy (which the beloved Smalling nearly fecked up, by the way), Louis van Gaal dished up by far some of the worst football I've seen in a long time.
 

stevoc

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Doesn't matter what you say about Moyes, Solskjaer is currently sitting on the worst United league start in 30-odd years. That's BEFORE the PL was even born. That is a fact.
I'm not going out of my way to defend Solskjaer if he got sacked tomorrow or at any point in the last few months i don't think he could complain, we could and should have sacked Moyes way before we did also. But anyone spouting disingenuous bullshit like the club has had more patience with Solskjaer or given him more time than Moyes i'm not having. Solskjaer might see out his first full season as permanent manager, and if he doesn't get CL football then just like Moyes in 13/14 and Van Gaal in 15/16 he'll deservedly get the sack.

I get that a lot of people have this blinkered and obsessive hatred towards Moyes but for me, even though he got us a trophy (which the beloved Smalling nearly fecked up, by the way), Louis van Gaal dished up by far some of the worst football I've seen in a long time.
Probably was worse than Moyes football but not by much. The real difference between the two though is Van Gaal wasn't a complete twat who tried to throw everyone and anyone under the bus.
 

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You are correct. It will be unpopular because Moyes became a meme. He was definitely a higher manager than Ole (comfortably mid table/top 8 level manager) and was not giving the time Ole has been given.

However, that's because Ole has been given way more time than he deserves and has not yet proven he is even a premier league level manager.
Ole is so far getting the time he deserves. Moyes should have gotten the time he deserved. But we are a glory hunting bunch who don’t understand basic leadership needs and therefore Moyes was sacked and we’ll probably be successful in pushing Ole out too so we can have the next manager to push out in no time.
 

Sassy Colin

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Ole is so far getting the time he deserves. Moyes should have gotten the time he deserved. But we are a glory hunting bunch who don’t understand basic leadership needs and therefore Moyes was sacked and we’ll probably be successful in pushing Ole out too so we can have the next manager to push out in no time.
He got more time than he deserved, should have been gone in November.
 

Paolo Di Canio

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For me, that was "Moyes-ehh's" last ever chance at a top flight job down the toilet

He will now go on to have an Alan Curbishley type career having his name thrown around as 5th or 6th favorite for any lower Prem jobs.

Best he can hope for is taking up at Rangers after Stevie G or begging Becks for the Inter Miami gig
 

The Boy

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We could bring him back! He can do well with weaker sides so should do well with us.
He could job share with Ole, Moyes takes the games against the lower 10 and Ole against the top 10

You know it makes sense!
 

SteveJ

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West Ham's owners refuse to sack Pellegrini until Moyes gets exorcised and buggers off.
 

Champagne Football

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A Moyes type manager is not hard to find. You can find plenty of one-trick-pony Moyes level managers in The Championship and League One, who sometimes get lucky and promote a team to the Premier league for a few seasons.

Chris Hughton got sacked at Brighton in recent times, despite doing good work and being every bit Moyes' equal. But the fans and board at clubs get sick to death of that dour safety safety approach, while academy kids don't get developed for fear of dropping points when always parking the bus.

Ole deserves to be given plenty more time at Utd, unlike Moyes, because his methods are ideal for a big club. Kids get developed. Tactically, the emphasis is to attack even if you don't quite have the level of players you need to achieve this.
Finding a young hungry manager who develops kids and who gets results playing attacking football is not easy. Finding another Moyes in League One or the SPL is as easy as trying to find a loaf of bread in a bakery.
 

McGrathsipan

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Ole is so far getting the time he deserves. Moyes should have gotten the time he deserved. But we are a glory hunting bunch who don’t understand basic leadership needs and therefore Moyes was sacked and we’ll probably be successful in pushing Ole out too so we can have the next manager to push out in no time.
I would argue Moyes didnt understand basic leadership either.
 

Sky1981

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Manchester united fans has this weird thing with finished. It's as if managing us was the pinnacle or the end of the road.

Many managers managed big teams and fail and continue to be successful somewhere else.
 

WR10

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So can this thread be locked now? I think the answer is pretty clear. A trainwreck of a 'leader'
 

RedRonaldo

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The difference between Moyes and Ole is:
Moyes inherit a champion winning team to 7th position.
Ole inherit a 7th place team to er.. 6th.
 

Suedesi

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Forget United for a second. It’s been 6 years since getting sacked from United, enough time to prove his doubters wrong.

Did he succeed in Spain with Sociedad? West Ham? Did he succeed with another club?
 

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Best he can hope for is taking up at Rangers after Stevie G or begging Becks for the Inter Miami gig
Can’t see it. His stock has fallen beyond what Rangers, or Celtic for that matter, would expect. Season ticket revenue is a more critical funding stream in Scotland compared to the big money TV leagues and an underwhelming appointment both in terms of reputation and style would be bad for business. And his time with Celtic as a player reinforces the unlikeliness of him becoming a good fit for Rangers.
 

Paul_Scholes18

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The difference between Moyes and Ole is:
Moyes inherit a champion winning team to 7th position.
Ole inherit a 7th place team to er.. 6th.
We played better football under Moyes I think. Granted we played terrible in the big league games. Fellani, Rooney plus Carrick as our midfield was suicide since it could not press or run enough.
Although the better football was mainly down to having a squad that played under SAF and not Moyes tactics.

Moyes was mainly clueless in terms of improving the team. Januzaj the bright spot, but not much more.
 

Paul_Scholes18

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I think you forgot the white text
We did play better in most of the games. We created more. Standards are much lower now so people feel better about the current crap against bottom teamsm
Although we got destroyed by pool and city which most of us remember so in the big games we did much worse.
 

Antisocial

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He's still got a chance of returning to West Ham; I mean that's what the media said over the weekend, just like they did about him going back to Everton. So they must be reliable this time... I mean why would anyone in the British media write something positive about Moyes if it's complete bullshit? :smirk:
 

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He's still got a chance of returning to West Ham; I mean that's what the media said over the weekend, just like they did about him going back to Everton. So they must be reliable this time... I mean why would anyone in the British media write something positive about Moyes if it's complete bullshit? :smirk:
There was no way they’d have had him back at Everton. The owners clearly have big ideas, and while their implementation of those ideas has been disastrous to date, there’s no way bringing Moyes back would help. Plus it would look stupid.

West Ham shouldn’t have sacked him in the first place as he was actually doing a surprisingly decent job there. Bringing him back wouldn’t be a bad idea, but I doubt the owners could cope with the loss of face.
 

Josep Dowling

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Go ahead then, give the argument then.

I argue leadership needs time. The time to familiarize, learn, make mistakes and finally adapt.
Leadership is very difficult to teach. You either have it or you don’t. And Moyes simply couldn’t get the respect of the players which in turn makes it very difficult to then lead them.

In my opinion any manager that took over after Fergie would have failed. Everything at the club was pretty much organised by him for over 25 years. People don’t like change, everything changed when he retired. It’s why I don’t think a single top manager wanted the job, they knew it was the impossible job to take over from him.
 

DLE

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Leadership is very difficult to teach. You either have it or you don’t. And Moyes simply couldn’t get the respect of the players which in turn makes it very difficult to then lead them.

In my opinion any manager that took over after Fergie would have failed. Everything at the club was pretty much organised by him for over 25 years. People don’t like change, everything changed when he retired. It’s why I don’t think a single top manager wanted the job, they knew it was the impossible job to take over from him.
New manager would have needed to continue close relations with SAF and also to continue his legacy. That means same values, same system, same employees. Then after some while, maybe the first year, some changes could have been done. It’s extremely hard and it takes time.

Moyes wanted his own employees and own system, which he could get, but only by waiting and allowing people time to adjust.

So he applied his changes and it made things more difficult. That said, he still should have been given more time. 6 months is a joke, football, business - same applies.
 

FootballHQ

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Was at Fulham-Leeds taking notes apparently so could be a contender if they sack Scott Parker.
 

JeVousEnPrie

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He's got one "big" (read: mid prem level) job in him. He'll take a team from lower bottom half to upper bottom half and have saved his legacy. Amazon will make a documentary about it later called The Moyessiah.
 

AshRK

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The guy had a 18% win rate at Sunderland but if you ask him he will still say he deserved to manage United longer. He shouldn't have even allowed to manage this club.
 

FootballHQ

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Why would they sack Parker? 4th in the league and just beat Leeds
It's a little similar to Darren Moore last season. West Brom were in a similar position to Fulham but never convinced for top 2 (compared to what they're doing this season under Bilic) and Moore was sacked in March.

Fulham 11 is better than Leeds. Mitrovic is a premier league striker in the championship, you've got Anthony Knockeart who was fantastic for Brighton at this level on one side and Cavalerio who was a regular for Wolves on the other flank. Also Tom Cairney in number 10 role who was a standout player at this level last time they went up.

Before Saturday Fulham had lost their last three games so look far too inconsistant to finish top 2 which I'm sure was the ambition at start of the season.
 

T_Model101

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He's still got a chance of returning to West Ham; I mean that's what the media said over the weekend, just like they did about him going back to Everton. So they must be reliable this time... I mean why would anyone in the British media write something positive about Moyes if it's complete bullshit? :smirk:
By all accounts Moyes could be very generous to journalists. He certainly knew where his bread was buttered.
Maybe they see it as the least they can do in return is pulling for him to get a job at the Hammers