Is it possible to get offensive productivity out of our full-backs (right-back)?

[Ekeke]

There are just 5 fullbacks with more assists than AWB this season

 

[Stacks]

Shaw has the ability too but lacks the courage to do it. Wan-Bissaka has the courage but lacks the ability. Man looks so awkward on the ball.

I disagree and have high hopes for his attacking future. That ball he put in for the Rashford disallowed goal was class. He has 4 assists this season (Bissaka) and Shaw has 9 in his premier league career. Wan Bissaka has shown me he can beat his man and put in decent balls on occasion. As long as he keeps practicing this he will improve where as Luke won't.

as a comparison, this season in the premier league (according to their site) Shaw has put in 34 crosses this season, Wan Bissaka has put in 92. His crosses may be less accurate but he will improve through repetition and practice.

 

[Ekeke]

Also Shaw had 4 assists last season which is fine

 

[youngrell]

Also Shaw had 4 assists last season which is fine

There are just 5 fullbacks with more assists than AWB this season

I don't understand this mindset. Sure 4 is ok, but wouldn't it be better if he had 6? Or 8?

Why settle for something when there is clear improvement available with a slight change in attitude/application?

 

[MonkeysMagic]

One of the biggest issues our full-backs, or even wide players of any description, suffer from is cross incompletion i.e. the ability to get the ball past the blocking or first line of defence. This is a technical fault that can be ironed out in training, now of course you can argue that we don't have the sort of strike force that would benefit from crosses. But just having the ball consistently arrive in and around the penalty spot causes enough defensive panic to lead to opportunities 'on the ground' just look at TAA stats and see how he gets most of his assists.

 

[AFC NimbleThumb]

I think that'll give you idea of what we can get out from our fullback

1st & 3rd are good; the 2nd one he should have composed himself better but AWB has obviously been working on deliveries early & low into the box which has improved his usefulness in attack.

I think AWB will continue to get better now we have a threat from RW that can’t be easily dealt with.

 

[Nikelesh Reddy]

Now that our frontline and midfield are pre-occupying and driving teams right back into their defensive third, we're seeing absolutely oodles of space and opportunities for our full-backs to influence the play. Indeed, if you put two world class offensive full-backs in this current side, the chances to contain us as an offensive force would be remote.

When watching us in the flow and momentum we currently have, there are pretty distinct pauses and losses of superfluous movement when our full-backs have to make a decisive action in the final third. Both of them are actually getting up in support of the attack, but neither of them really know how to hone in on the openings they're being presented with.

Shaw, for instance, will have time and the space to really thrust into the box or take a shot on or attempt a threatening pass or cross, but what he ends up doing is hesitating and then recycling the play to someone higher up the chain of command. He nullifies his threat with decisions he makes where, there is a good reason to believe there's a goal or two in it for him as well as a fair amount of assists or the winning of corners/free kicks/penalties if he'd take to the play and make decisions without that hesitation and doubt he has.

Wan Bissaka doesn't make the same kind of driving initial runs as Shaw, so his threat is not so much about getting chances on goal nor winning us set-piece plays, but as Mason darts diagonally towards the box, Bissaka often finds himself flanked wide on the overlap with the opportunity to really dribble to the edge of the box, thus drawing men to him (and away from their intended marks), if not that, the same time and space affords him a window of opportunity to play balls in, but he is hesitant to take on challenging aerial crosses or use the time and space he is being afforded to try and play the most threatening driven balls into the box he can. His first instinct seems to be to turn back inside and hand the offensive duties over to an offensive player - being the offensive threat in his own right is a secondary consideration.

Of course, both players are regarded as defensive full-backs first and foremost, and as such, you're not going to get Marcelo and Dani Alves in the final 3rd, but in the modern game, and particularly with what our midfield and attacking units offer us in pinning teams back, the importance of our full-backs could really be taken up at least a notch or two if they can somehow pick up the confidence and intricacies of the role they have the potential to play as this team re-shapes and starts to think of itself as challengers and contenders rather than plucky go luckys who are merely in good form. I think it's evident that with Pogba and Fernandes in tandem, and the development of Greenwood, we're on the precipice of being more the former than the latter, but to solidify it the offensive threat from the full-backs needs a boost.

Whether it's Greenwood or Sancho out on the right flank next season, what is absolutely guaranteed is that Wan Bissaka will have a plethora of opportunities to influence the game in an offensive capacity. Sancho requires a two-man operation to contain, and it isn't out of the question that six months down the line Greenwood will, too. Point is, irrespective of whom it is of the aforementioned: Bissaka is going to become a player with even more opportunities than he has now to be an influential and decisive cog in this team.

My question is as stated in the header. Do you believe it's a case of familiarity with almost constantly finding themselves in space so high up the pitch will eventually engender confidence and take them up a level or two, or even, do you think they can be coached (and coaxed) out of their shells to be influential and legitimate offensive threats? Directly or indirectly, there's a good 10-15 more goals to be had over a season if our full-backs are up to par with what title challengers demand from their fullbacks these days.

Luke Shaw has incredible potential to be a great attacking full back.He also has all the attributes to contribute significantly to our attack....AWB definitely needs to improve this aspect of his game.His crossing has improved over the course of the season,but he needs to show more intent to help us out offensively in the final third.Diogo Dalot is also apparently a very good attacking full back...Infact he’s supposed to be a very good crosser of the ball so who knows maybe he could get more opportunities in the future...

 

[12OunceEpilogue]

Wan Bissaka can get up and down the pitch well and has shown he can put a decent ball in. With a proper attacker on the righthand side in Mason I'd back him to develop his game in the final third even further. Shaw's run inside Rashford have pleased me these past couple of games, I think particularly in the Brighton game he caused havoc in the first half getting in-between fullback and centre half on the edge of the 18 yard box. I suppose I do worry about them both recovering when we lose the ball, I think Wan Bissaka could brush up on his positional play at times and if we're truly asking them to play high and be involved in all our attacks like TAA and Robertson we are in danger of exposing Maguire, Lindelof and Matic to the counter, none of whom have much pace to speak of. Overall though I feel pretty good about Wan Bissaka and Shaw's current levels and feel they could both improve.

 

[Ekeke]

I don't understand this mindset. Sure 4 is ok, but wouldn't it be better if he had 6? Or 8?

Why settle for something when there is clear improvement available with a slight change in attitude/application?

No other team in the premier league than liverpool has more than 6 or 8 from a fullback

 

[youngrell]

No other team in the premier league than liverpool has more than 6 or 8 from a fullback

So settle for second best then, is it?

I understand that Liverpool play in a specific way which heavily involves their FBs, but can't you see that, despite already decent levels from our FBs, that there is a lot of space for them to exploit and improve on their current contribution? I don't think it's asking a great deal of them.

 

[georgipep]

So settle for second best then, is it?

I understand that Liverpool play in a specific way which heavily involves their FBs, but can't you see that, despite already decent levels from our FBs, that there is a lot of space for them to exploit and improve on their current contribution? I don't think it's asking a great deal of them.

And that would then leave even more space behind them for the opposition to counter. Liverpool mitigate that by having 3 workhorse midfielders who cover. We play with two creative midfielders who actively participate in building attacks.

If you look at the number of bodies in attack we commit it makes a lot more sense. We play with 5/6 people (Martial, Rashford, Greenwood, Bruno, the fullback in the action zone and more often than not Pogba), same as Liverpool (Firmino, Salah, Mane, Robertson, TAA and often Wijnaldum).

Asking our fullbacks to push even higher would expose us way too much and create a lack of balance that will be exploited. Keep in mind ALL Premier League teams have fast players to hit us on the break. The quality throughout the league is incredibly high.

 

[youngrell]

And that would then leave even more space behind them for the opposition to counter. Liverpool mitigate that by having 3 workhorse midfielders who cover. We play with two creative midfielders who actively participate in building attacks.

If you look at the number of bodies in attack we commit it makes a lot more sense. We play with 5/6 people (Martial, Rashford, Greenwood, Bruno, the fullback in the action zone and more often than not Pogba), same as Liverpool (Firmino, Salah, Mane, Robertson, TAA and often Wijnaldum).

Asking our fullbacks to push even higher would expose us way too much and create a lack of balance that will be exploited. Keep in mind ALL Premier League teams have fast players to hit us on the break. The quality throughout the league is incredibly high.

As I have posted earlier in this thread, it's not a question of asking them to attack more, it's for them to be smarter in the attacks they are already involved in. There is no more exposure involved for our defence, it is just them making the right decisions and movements when they get in the position they are already occupying.

It is a very small tweak in attitude and application that is required to move them up a level.

 

[Ekeke]

So settle for second best then, is it?

I understand that Liverpool play in a specific way which heavily involves their FBs, but can't you see that, despite already decent levels from our FBs, that there is a lot of space for them to exploit and improve on their current contribution? I don't think it's asking a great deal of them.

We arent second best. We're 5th

We'd love to be second best

 

[Maticmaker]

If Shaw and AWB could get the ball into the box with accuracy and pace like Trent and Robertson I'd be very happy. Its not just the Liverpool pair galloping down the wing and crossing, its diagonals, corner-kicks, free kicks etc. I would rather have the likes of Rashford and Fernandez be in the box or on the edge waiting for pinpoint crosses, rather than doing the crossing themselves.

 

[sun_tzu]

I don't understand this mindset. Sure 4 is ok, but wouldn't it be better if he had 6? Or 8?

Why settle for something when there is clear improvement available with a slight change in attitude/application?

But perhaps its also because we play through the centre more than some other teams... perhaps we concede less goals than some because we urge more caution in fullbacks going forwards and potentially getting exposed.

Sure Trent (12) and Robertson (8) get a lot of assists but perhaps that is because they are given more creative responsibility and the midfield creates less as they cover for them Azpiluceta (6) and Dinge (6) have both had good seasons for assists and Aurier has 5.

So right backs who have contributed more assists than AWB are
Trent A A- absolute class of his own and a system designed to encourage that
Azpiluceta - though hes also a centre back, a wing back and a left back for chelsea
Aurier - who is a liability at the back

 

[romufc]

So settle for second best then, is it?

I understand that Liverpool play in a specific way which heavily involves their FBs, but can't you see that, despite already decent levels from our FBs, that there is a lot of space for them to exploit and improve on their current contribution? I don't think it's asking a great deal of them.

I think you are getting confused. Just because Liverpool have full backs with alot of assists, it does not mean all full backs should. Different teams play different styles.

Asking our fullbacks to push even higher would expose us way too much and create a lack of balance that will be exploited. Keep in mind ALL Premier League teams have fast players to hit us on the break. The quality throughout the league is incredibly high.

This is the thing, alot of people do not understand Balance. If we asked Shaw and AWB to get us more assists and goals, we cannot play Bruno and Pogba in Midfield.

Do fans who think we need 10 assists from each full back think that will not have an impact anywhere else on the pitch are having a laugh.

I would suggest fans to go have a look at how many assists / goals our midfield has in comparison to Liverpool. Bruno has more than all combined.

Finally, Greenwood has more PL goals than Firminho who is their 9, are they saying Manutd have a striker scoring 10 goals a season so we should replace ours? No, they will say Firminho works well for the balance of this team giving the others space.

In the same way their midfield 3 give full backs the opportunity to drive forward with Gini, Fabinho and Henderson covering the full backs.

Can you Imagine Ole telling Bruno and Pogba, boys we you cannot attack all the time, we need you to cover Shaw and AWB so they can get assists.

Oh and also, Trent and Robertson take Freekicks and corners for Liverpool and they have the most number of set piece goals. They are not all open play assists.

 

[youngrell]

I think you are getting confused. Just because Liverpool have full backs with alot of assists, it does not mean all full backs should. Different teams play different styles.

This is the thing, alot of people do not understand Balance. If we asked Shaw and AWB to get us more assists and goals, we cannot play Bruno and Pogba in Midfield.

Do fans who think we need 10 assists from each full back think that will not have an impact anywhere else on the pitch are having a laugh.

I would suggest fans to go have a look at how many assists / goals our midfield has in comparison to Liverpool. Bruno has more than all combined.

Finally, Greenwood has more PL goals than Firminho who is their 9, are they saying Manutd have a striker scoring 10 goals a season so we should replace ours? No, they will say Firminho works well for the balance of this team giving the others space.

In the same way their midfield 3 give full backs the opportunity to drive forward with Gini, Fabinho and Henderson covering the full backs.

Can you Imagine Ole telling Bruno and Pogba, boys we you cannot attack all the time, we need you to cover Shaw and AWB so they can get assists.

Oh and also, Trent and Robertson take Freekicks and corners for Liverpool and they have the most number of set piece goals. They are not all open play assists.

Jeez, can you not read?

I have discussed more than once in this thread about not expecting the full backs to attack more but to attack better/smarter. I don't need a lecture on team balance, it's quite clear that I understand it already.

I'm not asking our full backs to reach the output of the Liverpool FBs, but there is certainly opportunity for them to improve their own output a little without disregarding their defensive responsibility or expecting our creative midfielders to cover them.

 

[romufc]

Jeez, can you not read?

I have discussed more than once in this thread about not expecting the full backs to attack more but to attack better/smarter. I don't need a lecture on team balance, it's quite clear that I understand it already.

I'm not asking our full backs to reach the output of the Liverpool FBs, but there is certainly opportunity for them to improve their own output a little without disregarding their defensive responsibility or expecting our creative midfielders to cover them.

Well, do you think Ole has said to them.. well done lads you've got 7 assists you can relax now? Throughout the season, they have improved, Ole has mentioned that they are working on AWB's attack, so it is clear that they do want them to improve their end product.

 

[youngrell]

Well, do you think Ole has said to them.. well done lads you've got 7 assists you can relax now? Throughout the season, they have improved, Ole has mentioned that they are working on AWB's attack, so it is clear that they do want them to improve their end product.

Of course not, but there a lots of posters in this thread saying things like "they've got 4 assists, they're fine" while it's clear to me there is room for improvement.

Honestly, I don't really care too much for their individual numbers in terms of assists, I just want them to help the attack more by doing things I have mentioned already such as making a simple run to open up space for others (like Shaw did for Martial vs Bournemouth), moving the ball a split second quicker or have more conviction in their ability to cross/pass to an attacker.

All of that will help the team improve on number of goals, the assists don't have to come directly from the full backs but they should be helping a bit more by doing these things now that they find themselves in acres of space each game.

I have faith they will get there.

 

[Fortitude]

AWB is a technical issue. His way of controlling the ball influences all of his game. Difficult to make good crosses when the ball is constantly between your feet, or have an overview when you are always leaning forward and looking down on the ball. As long as he does not become a cog in the offensive play simply by giving him the ball, we should be happy. The other culprit of taking 5 hours to make a decision, Shaw, seems to be that he does not understand what to do. I suspect that Mourinho was correct in that one would need to remotely control him(aka lack of understanding of the game). We should regardless actively seek to replace him anyway. Having one of the starting fullbacks being defensive is ok, not two. And Shaw would be the one to go.

That's a good point. He does often have to sort his feet out before proceeding to his next action, which can prove costly as it gives his tracker that bit more time to put him under pressure, where, if he already had the ball out from under him, there'd be no window of opportunity there for that to occur.

I don't agree with reducing the role of either offensively (as in don't get the ball to them as often), however, as as I've said, full-backs really play a vital role in opening up the field for everyone else in the modern game, and be getting ours to a level where they're deemed threats in their own right, our whole attack will be elevated because men will be drawn away from middle to tend to the immediate threat of full-backs who can put in first time crosses/cut-backs or otherwise run into the box and draw penalties.

It's probably also a misnomer to say our full-backs are defensive, more that that's what they're good at, not that they don't cross the halfway line and go up to attempt to affect the play. As I've said in a few posts, and @youngrell has been at pains to mention, it's not the amount of runs they're making that is the issue, rather, what they're doing with themselves, and the ball, once up there. A truly defensive full-back doesn't even give you the opportunity to examine their offensive capacity, because they're simply not available beyond the halfway line for the majority of the game. I'd think both our full-backs spend more time beyond the halfway line on the offensive side than the defensive.

 

[buckooo1978]

I think its an area of their games they should be working on....

Wan Bissaka has shown some development thus far but he doesn't look the most comfortable player on the ball.

Shaw is a decent player but this position is one id be looking to improve upon

 

[Annihilate Now!]

Shaw and AWB have been very good going forward since the return. Zero complaints from me.

 

[Fortitude]

Luke Shaw has incredible potential to be a great attacking full back.He also has all the attributes to contribute significantly to our attack....AWB definitely needs to improve this aspect of his game.His crossing has improved over the course of the season,but he needs to show more intent to help us out offensively in the final third.Diogo Dalot is also apparently a very good attacking full back...Infact he’s supposed to be a very good crosser of the ball so who knows maybe he could get more opportunities in the future...

I certainly think if Shaw was decisive when he got into the positions he does, opinions on here would do a 180 amongst those who think there's no hope for him in an offensive capacity. The runs he makes are actually encouraging; it's the pauses and the hesitancy in his game that needs to be curtailed, so I agree the potential is definitely there now that we are an oppressive team who will provide more and more of these opportunities for Shaw to influence the game both directly and indirectly.

Agree about Biasska in relation to intent, too. It goes a long way, as that same conviction will have a byproduct of more movement toward him from the opposition, and runs into position from his team-mates.

 

[romufc]

Of course not, but there a lots of posters in this thread saying things like "they've got 4 assists, they're fine" while it's clear to me there is room for improvement.

Honestly, I don't really care too much for their individual numbers in terms of assists, I just want them to help the attack more by doing things I have mentioned already such as making a simple run to open up space for others (like Shaw did for Martial vs Bournemouth), moving the ball a split second quicker or have more conviction in their ability to cross/pass to an attacker.

All of that will help the team improve on number of goals, the assists don't have to come directly from the full backs but they should be helping a bit more by doing these things now that they find themselves in acres of space each game.

I have faith they will get there.

Fair enough.

Likewise, I do not think we should look at assists in terms of numbers only. Shaw has been good at it, always available and most often his touch is really good. He plays the simple passes well which opens up space.

obviously the more they play together the better their understanding will improve and as long as the team is scoring, It means we are doing a good job.

 

[youngrell]

Fair enough.

Likewise, I do not think we should look at assists in terms of numbers only. Shaw has been good at it, always available and most often his touch is really good. He plays the simple passes well which opens up space.

obviously the more they play together the better their understanding will improve and as long as the team is scoring, It means we are doing a good job.

Yes definitely. That is why I have focussed more on Shaw because he is a big part of our build up play. Matic almost exclusively looks left for his out ball and Shaw is the usually recipient and for the most part he does very well, I just think a bit more urgency and conviction in his play/decisions would benefit the team greatly. He also benefits from Matic protecting the left more often too, so he has a bit of licence for more adventure, he just needs to want it and grasp it.

 

[Web of Bissaka]

Shaw and AWB have been very good going forward since the return. Zero complaints from me.

^

 

[adexkola]

I think the more defensive fullbacks suit us. Posters can get too drawn into the fact Liverpool have trent bombing forward and deceiving crosses but people forget that is also Liverpools main creative angle as their midfield is much more defensively minded than ours and Fabinho is more mobile than Matic.

We need the more conservative full backs to balance the more attacking midfield players we have.

This

 

[Fosu-Mens]

That's a good point. He does often have to sort his feet out before proceeding to his next action, which can prove costly as it gives his tracker that bit more time to put him under pressure, where, if he already had the ball out from under him, there'd be no window of opportunity there for that to occur.

I don't agree with reducing the role of either offensively (as in don't get the ball to them as often), however, as as I've said, full-backs really play a vital role in opening up the field for everyone else in the modern game, and be getting ours to a level where they're deemed threats in their own right, our whole attack will be elevated because men will be drawn away from middle to tend to the immediate threat of full-backs who can put in first time crosses/cut-backs or otherwise run into the box and draw penalties.

It's probably also a misnomer to say our full-backs are defensive, more that that's what they're good at, not that they don't cross the halfway line and go up to attempt to affect the play. As I've said in a few posts, and @youngrell has been at pains to mention, it's not the amount of runs they're making that is the issue, rather, what they're doing with themselves, and the ball, once up there. A truly defensive full-back doesn't even give you the opportunity to examine their offensive capacity, because they're simply not available beyond the halfway line for the majority of the game. I'd think both our full-backs spend more time beyond the halfway line on the offensive side than the defensive.

His problematic technique was mention as a potential issue by many posters before we signed him, and something that would have to be fixed if he was to become anything more than a zero-sum player when the team is on the ball. He will never be able to be a decent passer or a good crosser as long he controls the ball the way he currently does(and a low cross on the first post from the edge of the box is something everyone can do) Still, given his abilities as an isolated defender and us being able to progress the ball through the middle, AWB is not an issue and overall a beneficial player to have.

The problem is (what I attempted to explain in my post) that both our starting fullbacks are not good in the build-up and in the final third (not that they play defensively as I said). Having one is ok, and not problematic, but both being better when the team is not in possession forces us to go through the middle every time. Makes it easier for the opposition to compress in the middle and removes the space PP and Bruno needs to operate at their best.

Shaw technique is good, but he can't cross for sh*t. Seems to not have any control over his passes or crosses when he hits the ball with some force. Not really impressed with him and cannot see what all the "give him another year" is about. If we had someone on LB that could pass with some intelligence, contribute in the build-up and create some danger from a wide position, it is not farfetched to think that the benefits of this (More difficult for teams to stay compact --> PP and Bruno more space, easier for Rashford to cut in and shot etc) would be more than 10 goals overall if quantifiable over a season.

Ex: Leicester: Chilwell should not be given space to cross or playmake. Every team takes this into account and shifts over to one side or does not stay compact. If they shift over to one side, Pereira gets more room. If they do not stay compact, Maddison gets ideal working conditions. Leicester have two wide threats from their fullbacks, their wingers can drift inside. More players to mark. If wingers stay wide, fullbacks playmake from a more central position.

I'm not saying that there is a must to have fullbacks as good in attack as Chilwell or Pereira, but one of them should at least be considered a threat in attack and able to pass/cross at a decent level. Currently, most teams want us to give the ball to AWB and Shaw in the build-up and in the final third. The main way we are able to bring the ball forward is to make high risk line breaking passes to Bruno...

 

[Stacks]

Luke Shaw has incredible potential to be a great attacking full back.He also has all the attributes to contribute significantly to our attack....AWB definitely needs to improve this aspect of his game.His crossing has improved over the course of the season,but he needs to show more intent to help us out offensively in the final third.Diogo Dalot is also apparently a very good attacking full back...Infact he’s supposed to be a very good crosser of the ball so who knows maybe he could get more opportunities in the future...

It's funny because according to the premier league, Wan Bissaka has 4 assists in the premier league this season and Shaw has like 9 in his 7 premier league seasons (but he has incredible potential). People love touting Shaw potential when he as been a 1st team pro for nearly a decade. Wan Bissaka is the one with potential since this is like his second season. Wan Bissaka has made more through balls and put in 3 times as many crosses than Shaw but he needs to do more in the final 3rd.

 

[Web of Bissaka]

Bissaka needs spaces to attack better. Greenwood playstyle and threats definitely bring out more attacks from AWB by attracting defenders away. Easy solution - give Wan more spaces and he'll attack better. Done.

Shaw is important in our build-up and recycling possession, have been consistent doing this. To attack better, he need the LW to match his runs and movements with passes and 1-2 neat tricky passes. Martial is the best at this, but Rashford's vision and passing game is improving. Not a problem though since our LW (Rash, Martial and James) tend to move infield leaving many spaces for Shaw to attack. The only problem is at times he checks his run basically staying too deep despite the amount of spaces in front of him. Concentration issue. Solution is to make sure Shaw is focus (head in the game) by pointing it out when he's not (job of manager and teammates). Done.

 

[Class of 63]

Do you mean Gary Neville not a great crosser of the ball? Take away his cross, his overlapping run, Gary is what?

Phil's elder brother.

 

[TrustInOle]

I think we are seeing improvement in recent weeks from the fullbacks. AWB has started putting in some decent early crosses that have created opportunities.

Shaw isn't playing like an attacking fullback in a conventional sense but he's now causing issues. He's drifting infield and picking up some dangerous positions. He's also making the run on the inside of the fullback which they just seem unable to deal with right now. It's also giving Rashford a little more space out there to square up his player. I like what I'm seeing.

Agreed with your comments about Shaw, his recent drives on the inside of the fullbacks seem to cause havoc for everyone we have played since the comeback, with no strategy being targeted to try and stop them. My only concern is he seems to lack the commitment and aggressiveness in driving past players in the box, since his leg break, which itself can take years to overcome knowing you are deploying yourself into similar situations quite regularly. I sincerely hope he can overcome this as the rest of his game is solid.

AWB, I think just needs time, he has already shown his attacking improvements since arriving and he has it all to be one the best RB's to is generation if he can continue to apply the time into taking on players and working more on his crossing, which has developed handsomely already.

I honestly don't get the whisperings that they may have to be replaced, both young enough to still improve and are already at a comfortable level.

 

[matherto]

AWB I think gets better and better every game. His ability to beat a man and put in a great cross is being demonstrated all the time now whereas before it was all spider legs all over the shop. Been genuinely more impressed with him going forward than defensively since we came back but that is in part because we've done a lot more attacking than defending.

Shaw also looks more threatening, he still needs to work on positioning going forward but he certainly picks the ball up in dangerous areas and his dribbling is excellent at the minute, seems to make marauding runs with the ball with regularity.

Absolutely we should be aiming for Liverpool levels of attacking from our full backs but we're showing massive improvement over the course of the season. Let's keep it up.

I can remember for a huge chunk of 09-13 it felt like our attacking basis came from Evra. He always seemed to have the ball in the oppositons half for large amounts of a game. His crossing was never actually that good and he didn't get that many assists but it felt like a big strategy from SAF.

Similarly Nev with his overlapping runs behind Becks and Ronaldo was a big theme of our 90's and 00's play.

We're feeling more like the United we know and love as time goes on under Ole.

 

[kkengvib]

To be honest I feel both are doing better compared to earlier in the season.
But yeah, definitely room for improvement

Shaw needs to improve his final ball. He already makes excellent runs and his control/dribbling is surprisingly decent. Needs to either drive low crosses in or whip higher balls in. He tends to just put most most balls in at shin/knee height... gets cleared often.

I think AWB is better than he thinks he is, so it's more about confidence. Ball control is poor but his crosses aren't bad. If he would make more overlapping runs he can focus more on getting crosses in rather than trying to beat his man (which he looks kinda awkward doing... i can't believe he used to be a winger!)

 

[Class of 63]

It's the last minute of the last League game of the season, we need one goal to qualify for the Champions League, the ball goes wide to our fullback high up the pitch, we just need one cross, one decisive link-up, and bear in mind the left-back has got far superior players to play with, as a United fan who do you want the ball to go to, a guy who has only been playing the position for just over a year and learning on the job, or a guy who has been a fullback for a decade?

 

[romufc]

Shaw is important in our build-up and recycling possession, have been consistent doing this. To attack better, he need the LW to match his runs and movements with passes and 1-2 neat tricky passes. Martial is the best at this, but Rashford's vision and passing game is improving. Not a problem though since our LW (Rash, Martial and James) tend to move infield leaving many spaces for Shaw to attack. The only problem is at times he checks his run basically staying too deep despite the amount of spaces in front of him. Concentration issue. Solution is to make sure Shaw is focus (head in the game) by pointing it out when he's not (job of manager and teammates). Done.

This. So much of what Shaw does goes unnoticed IMO. He is so good at keeping possession, which in turn sustains our attack. He also does go on some runs with the ball and you think go on keep going and he checks, but I feel that will come with confidence.

More game time Shaw plays, the better he will get.

 

[Skills]

I think the constant criticism and focus on our full backs production is just a symptom of the poor coaching at the club. The way we play and move the ball, we end up moving the ball outwide to our full backs and ask them to take on the opposition full back like they're the second coming of Ryan Giggs himself.

Even Trent and Robertson aren't ever expected to take on their man to pull a cross in. The difference is that the way Liverpool/City work the ball around, they have their own full backs running onto through balls for quick cut backs and crosses across the 8 yard box. That's the positions you should be putting your full backs in, and not isolating them 1v1 against the oppositions full back and ask them to take him on or to punt a cross in from miles out.

 

[Sandikan]

I think the more defensive fullbacks suit us. Posters can get too drawn into the fact Liverpool have trent bombing forward and deceiving crosses but people forget that is also Liverpools main creative angle as their midfield is much more defensively minded than ours and Fabinho is more mobile than Matic.

We need the more conservative full backs to balance the more attacking midfield players we have.

First bit of decent analysis I've seen on here.

If we played with 3 harrying centre mids like Liverpool do, we could get away with, and would need much more productive full backs.

But we play differently with Pogba and Bruno in there.

 

[Okey]

Sometimes attacking instinct comes naturally, other times it can be coached. Some fullbacks sadly just never get to be good at it. AWB strikes me as eminently coachable, for someone who doesn't appear to be a natural footballer. He's already coming on in leaps and bounds in just his first season. Shaw was much better offensively when he was at Southampton than he is now, so that might return too. But ultimately, as has been pointed out already, our system doesn't require them to create so much, a la Liverpool. The main things they need to be coached on are making overlapping runs and getting balls into the box (high or low and when to do either). They really aren't doing badly at the moment, given how we play.

 

[Nickelodeon]

Why is there no attempt for any overlap on either side? When sides like Palace sit deep, the only option should be for our players to bombard the box and FBs to overlap and create 2v1 situations. Watching sideways passing from Shaw to Maguire to Lindelof to TFM was extremely depressing. I’m convinced that FBs are the bottleneck hampering our offensive output.