Is it time to burst “Rashy’s” bubble?

joedirt87

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Because Ruud played as a 9 with winger each side. Inside forwards rarely score tap ins. Thats a really unfair conparison to make. Its Martial who should be in the centre putting those away.
You never saw Ronaldo score tap ins for us
he did, but it's not really a far comparison because those United teams actually got players into the box and made runs and could cross.
 

mshnsh

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Ruud was exceptionnal in that regard, that kinda instinct is rare. Rashford can be a different but still great player for us
Why can't he develope that instinct? I remember Cristiano never had anything close to such an instinct and yet that instinct is exactly what makes him the player he is for the most part of his career.
 

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Why can't he develope that instinct? I remember Cristiano never had anything close to such an instinct and yet that instinct is exactly what makes him the player he is for the most part of his career.
Are you serious? Ronaldo is one of a kind, it would be mad to expect Rashford being on a similar level to Cristiano.

Physically the lad doesn't look 100% fit, I also believe Marcus might need to cut down a bit of his weight because he looks slower off the mark than a couple of seasons ago. Used to have no problems finding space for himself on the ball in those tight areas on the wing, now he mostly passes back or losses the ball.

I actually think Rashford's finishing and general play has improved massively since bursting into the first team, however it looks as if he has lost his best weapon, which was being extremely dangerous on the ball and having any defender on the edge with his movement.
 

Maticmaker

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Not exactly sure what 'bursting Rashy's bubble' means?

Its true that Rashfords' development as a player has plateaued somewhat, in particular since his injury and since his off the field activities have become national newsfeed. Commendable though these activities are, you can't help but wonder and especially because of the personal dimensions, are they a distraction at this time for Marcus from his 'day job'?

Watching him play is frustrating, he shows occasionally, like his goal against Brighton yesterday, that he can still be a potent goal scorer. Yet at times as Marcus seemingly hugs the left touchline so much, its almost as though he might be sulking at Ole, saying "ok you want me wide on the left that's where I will stay". It is common knowledge that Marcus sees himself as a central striker, but that Anthony Martial has that 'gig' at the moment and whilst they seem to be able to link up, that Marcus's efforts at times could be described as minimal and sometimes leave Martial 'dangling' especially when Rashford does not to see, (or maybe he chooses not to see) and doesn't make the right supporting run.

I have no doubt our current front three are destined for greatness, but there is a lot of work to do yet before the full potential of this trio is realized, and Rashford has as much to do to improve as Martial and Greenwood, part of which might be to come to accept that he may eventually have to become the junior/third place partner, if this is ever to become the successful triumvirate all United fans hope for!
 

RedDevil@84

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He looks sad/tired nowadays. I miss his smile and jumps after scoring. He definitely needs to cheer up.
Wonder if working with all the poor and needy is driving him unhappy.
 

Handré1990

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Yeah, this was an ill thought out op. As frustrating as he can be, which is pretty damn frustrating, he’s achieved a lot for his age. He has a lot of goals v quality opponents, and his numbers compare favourably to every player in his age group bar Mbappé. It’s alright though, as much quality content as @Raees puts out he’s bound to get some things very wrong ;)
 

Bebestation

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Not exactly sure what 'bursting Rashy's bubble' means?

Its true that Rashfords' development as a player has plateaued somewhat, in particular since his injury and since his off the field activities have become national newsfeed. Commendable though these activities are, you can't help but wonder and especially because of the personal dimensions, are they a distraction at this time for Marcus from his 'day job'?

Watching him play is frustrating, he shows occasionally, like his goal against Brighton yesterday, that he can still be a potent goal scorer. Yet at times as Marcus seemingly hugs the left touchline so much, its almost as though he might be sulking at Ole, saying "ok you want me wide on the left that's where I will stay". It is common knowledge that Marcus sees himself as a central striker, but that Anthony Martial has that 'gig' at the moment and whilst they seem to be able to link up, that Marcus's efforts at times could be described as minimal and sometimes leave Martial 'dangling' especially when Rashford does not to see, (or maybe he chooses not to see) and doesn't make the right supporting run.

I have no doubt our current front three are destined for greatness, but there is a lot of work to do yet before the full potential of this trio is realized, and Rashford has as much to do to improve as Martial and Greenwood, part of which might be to come to accept that he may eventually have to become the junior/third place partner, if this is ever to become the successful triumvirate all United fans hope for!
It's the 4231. He plays too wide and deep. It not only effects him but effects Martial because he is a link up striker than a predatory one and can be isolated if Rashford doesnt get ti the right positions.

You will also notice that when Daniel James gets picked at RW Rashford ends up hogging the touchline even more because Daniel James finds it too hard to cut in centrally from the right channel and it makes our front line very wide leading to crosses etc which dont suit many of our forwards. Then when Greenwood starts or even as a sub - Greenwood goes all game trying to cut in centrally and our forward line becomes very narrow almost instantly & Rashford follows suit which benefits Martial's gameplay.

Compare the positions Rashford get stuck in a 4231 (LM/LAM) to someone like Aubameyang plays at (much more like a LW or a LF) and its night and day how it effects our play.

The 4231 is just too defensively minded for so many of our players ( Rashford & Greenwood gets played out wider and deeper to protect the channels, Pogba has to work as another CDM/defensive CM in deep positions etc) it is the defensive minded alternative to the 433 and its unnecessarily holding our team back.
 

Raees

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Yeah, this was an ill thought out op. As frustrating as he can be, which is pretty damn frustrating, he’s achieved a lot for his age. He has a lot of goals v quality opponents, and his numbers compare favourably to every player in his age group bar Mbappé. It’s alright though, as much quality content as @Raees puts out he’s bound to get some things very wrong ;)
If you read the OP closely, I still don't think what I said was that wrong.

I don't want him to lose the natural air of confidence the lad has but are we harming his long term prospects by making him think he's already an elite forward? I feel like his general game is so erratic and unpolished.

Said it before, he is a player capable of producing great moments but his overall 90 minute game leaves a lot to be desired on a regular basis. I genuinely do not think this lad can be a first team regular if we are looking to win big trophies unless he takes a big slice of humble pie and works really hard on all aspects of his game and simplifies it... i.e. becomes a work horse who understands his own limitations.

I think as a long term squad player he'd be a great asset to have around but I fear we have blown up his ego to such an extent - he would walk if he was told he's not good enough to make it here as a first team regular.
I said he is talented and can produce great moments but across the 90 minutes he doesn't show enough quality for a title winning standard winger i.e. a Sadio Mane/Mo Salah type of player. Have I been proven wrong on that front?

I also said if he keeps working on his game and stays humble he will continue to get better. As we have seen recently under Ole, he is less likely to sulk on pitch, act like a celeb footballer with JLingz/Pogba and more likely to get involved with great charity initiatives which is super admirable.

Finally there is no guarantee that if Sancho comes, he will be a first team regular.. as there will be a battle between him, Greenwood and Martial as to who misses out... before his goal yesterday, the momentum seemed to be pointing towards him being the one to miss out if that happened.

The one thing where I did get wrong was saying he should be a workhorse type player, it was incorrect to phrase it like that. He has a Auba type talent, he can be very potent in counter attack scenarios, so I would prefer to see him operating on the last shoulder in that channel between rb/rcb and run at teams in that type of situation. I think he struggles more when he is asked to do typical winger type player against a well set defence. Also I apologise that this thread seems to have attracted a lot of people who want him to fail at all costs and seem very reluctant to give credit where it is due.
 

kouroux

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Why can't he develope that instinct? I remember Cristiano never had anything close to such an instinct and yet that instinct is exactly what makes him the player he is for the most part of his career.
You make it sound like it can be done easily :lol: Ronaldo still had a good ball reading and heading ability as a right winger already befor turning into a proper attacker. He didn't transform himself from nothing.
 

GiddyUp

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He just needs to improve his game and he will. Still think he needs a good rest and a couple of games watching from the bench. If we can get our defenders to stop pretending they can play from the back and release it faster so Rashford & Martial can open up instead of facing two banks of four from a standing start then should see them be a bit more consistent.
We just aren't a good team for the last 6 years. Individual brilliance but very little cohesion. I long to see this team play with smiles on their faces but they let themselves down a lot.
 

Handré1990

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If you read the OP closely, I still don't think what I said was that wrong.



I said he is talented and can produce great moments but across the 90 minutes he doesn't show enough quality for a title winning standard winger i.e. a Sadio Mane/Mo Salah type of player. Have I been proven wrong on that front?

I also said if he keeps working on his game and stays humble he will continue to get better. As we have seen recently under Ole, he is less likely to sulk on pitch, act like a celeb footballer with JLingz/Pogba and more likely to get involved with great charity initiatives which is super admirable.

Finally there is no guarantee that if Sancho comes, he will be a first team regular.. as there will be a battle between him, Greenwood and Martial as to who misses out... before his goal yesterday, the momentum seemed to be pointing towards him being the one to miss out if that happened.

The one thing where I did get wrong was saying he should be a workhorse type player, it was incorrect to phrase it like that. He has a Auba type talent, he can be very potent in counter attack scenarios, so I would prefer to see him operating on the last shoulder in that channel between rb/rcb and run at teams in that type of situation. I think he struggles more when he is asked to do typical winger type player against a well set defence. Also I apologise that this thread seems to have attracted a lot of people who want him to fail at all costs and seem very reluctant to give credit where it is due.
I think what you did «wrong» was trying to conclude on the evidence thus far. I see it a little differently, and I agree with most of what you said here. You say it so well, I have to add :)

When you made this op, Marcus was a 21yo with a lot of highs and lows during his short career. I’ve said it a lot of times in his performance threads, but despite our troubles during these important formative years of his, he seems to take steps in his development constantly, which is what I’d expect from a great United talent. Before his injury he started to put a lot of it together, not quite dominating through 90 mins, but he scared opponents, and produced more and more consistently, imo. He doesn’t shoot from impossible angles and distances as much, if at all, and since we’ve signed Bruno he’s not first on every free kick within a mile from the goal. All in all, I don’t think the proverbial bubble ever existed.
 

mshnsh

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You make it sound like it can be done easily :lol: Ronaldo still had a good ball reading and heading ability as a right winger already befor turning into a proper attacker. He didn't transform himself from nothing.
Let me tell you, before 06/07 season many had written him off. Now, granted that in 06/07 he played as a winger in what is in my opinion still his best overall season interms of all round play. But pretty much every season after that it has been about his goals. And majority have been about instinct and an unmatched determination infront of goal.

As for his heading, that is the one part that no one possibly in the history of football can match. So its no insult to Rashford if he can't match it.
 

kouroux

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Let me tell you, before 06/07 season many had written him off. Now, granted that in 06/07 he played as a winger in what is in my opinion still his best overall season interms of all round play. But pretty much every season after that it has been about his goals. And majority have been about instinct and an unmatched determination infront of goal.

As for his heading, that is the one part that no one possibly in the history of football can match. So its no insult to Rashford if he can't match it.
And many didn't either, he was on the cusp of becoming a great player with consistency. The signs were there, the world cup, Rooney red card, how he got booed at every away stadium and supported at OT transformed him. That summer, he switched mentally and use the hatred of others to fuel his game.
 

rollingstoned1

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And many didn't either, he was on the cusp of becoming a great player with consistency. The signs were there, the world cup, Rooney red card, how he got booed at every away stadium and supported at OT transformed him. That summer, he switched mentally and use the hatred of others to fuel his game.
nah man, i followed the team more closely then than i did now. you can trawl these very forums and you'd get an idea. People were salivating at the thought of binning him for Joaquin and even Aaron lennon after what happened at the WC.

But alas it's a digression. Rashford isn't suited to the cf role but he can definitely be a world class wide forward who can cut inside and shoot like Mane.
 

kouroux

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nah man, i followed the team more closely then than i did now. you can trawl these very forums and you'd get an idea. People were salivating at the thought of binning him for Joaquin and even Aaron lennon after what happened at the WC.

But alas it's a digression. Rashford isn't suited to the cf role but he can definitely be a world class wide forward who can cut inside and shoot like Mane.
I don't need to trawl this forum, I was here since 05. I don't care what some idiots used to think back then, there are always crazy opinions on the caf. I know what I saw
 

Renegade

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It's the 4231. He plays too wide and deep. It not only effects him but effects Martial because he is a link up striker than a predatory one and can be isolated if Rashford doesnt get ti the right positions.

You will also notice that when Daniel James gets picked at RW Rashford ends up hogging the touchline even more because Daniel James finds it too hard to cut in centrally from the right channel and it makes our front line very wide leading to crosses etc which dont suit many of our forwards. Then when Greenwood starts or even as a sub - Greenwood goes all game trying to cut in centrally and our forward line becomes very narrow almost instantly & Rashford follows suit which benefits Martial's gameplay.

Compare the positions Rashford get stuck in a 4231 (LM/LAM) to someone like Aubameyang plays at (much more like a LW or a LF) and its night and day how it effects our play.

The 4231 is just too defensively minded for so many of our players ( Rashford & Greenwood gets played out wider and deeper to protect the channels, Pogba has to work as another CDM/defensive CM in deep positions etc) it is the defensive minded alternative to the 433 and its unnecessarily holding our team back.
Perfectly said. I wish more people would notice the issues with our 4231set up. Martial is isolated because Bruno plays in #8 areas anyway.

We should play Bruno and Pogba either side of Matic and have Greenwood and Rashford much closer to Martial. It’s strange because Ole played 433 the end of 18/19 and got the full job because of it. Then bizarrely reverted to 4231 when we had #10 options of Lingard and Andreas.
 

rollingstoned1

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I don't need to trawl this forum, I was here since 05. I don't care what some idiots used to think back then, there are always crazy opinions on the caf. I know what I saw
if that's what you remember then you need a trip down memory lane. people would have bitten madrid's hands off for 20mn and spent that towards joaquin or lennon. it feels like a bad joke now.
 

kouroux

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if that's what you remember then you need a trip down memory lane. people would have bitten madrid's hands off for 20mn and spent that towards joaquin or lennon. it feels like a bad joke now.
You keep talking about people and I keep telling you people have been saying and thinking stupid shit every year that I've been here.
I don't base my views on what is said but what I see. Ronaldo was criticized by some but also loved by many fans.
 

rollingstoned1

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You keep talking about people and I keep telling you people have been saying and thinking stupid shit every year that I've been here.
I don't base my views on what is said but what I see. Ronaldo was criticized by some but also loved by many fans.
it's a good barometer to judge where the general mood's at. i wouldn't necessarily say it is stupid so much as reactionary and emotional, you take that out of a fanbase and you don't have much left so it comes with the territory.
 

MancunianAngels

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A homegrown player who is one of our best players.

Not only that, he is a great lad and has managed to successfully take on the Government to create some social/political change.

People still don't rate him? We don't deserve nice things.
 

kouroux

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it's a good barometer to judge where the general mood's at. i wouldn't necessarily say it is stupid so much as reactionary and emotional, you take that out of a fanbase and you don't have much left so it comes with the territory.
Yes, I will agree with that but it can also be very misleading in the way that a majority of fans can be wrong about any subject
 

TMDaines

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My little lad, Marcus, is 5 1/2 months old. Think we named him after the right man.

#sticktofootball
 

Guv77

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Martial could learn a thing or two from Rashford playing in the CF role and also his work rate and mentality!
 

MadDogg

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Martial could learn a thing or two from Rashford playing in the CF role and also his work rate and mentality!
Does he play better when Martial is not playing?
Rashford was terrible last season while Martial was injured. All of his best games came while Martial was playing up front. Yes this was his best match since his injury and it was the first time he's played upfront in that time, but more than likely that was a coincidence. Hopefully we'll see him kick on now and continue that form in whatever position he plays in.
 

eire-red

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Still only 22, that's the best thing about Rashford. Has all of the attributes and experience to become a world class player, just needs to start knitting it all together now into consistent performances.
 

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Rashford was terrible last season while Martial was injured. All of his best games came while Martial was playing up front. Yes this was his best match since his injury and it was the first time he's played upfront in that time, but more than likely that was a coincidence. Hopefully we'll see him kick on now and continue that form in whatever position he plays in.
I remember that last season Martial was not that great without Rashford as well, until the point we signed Bruno.

The lack of a link between midfield and the striker was devastating for us, and going into last season with Andreas, Lingard and Mata as the number 10 options was negligent and we were fortunate to get away with it.
 

MadDogg

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I remember that last season Martial was not that great without Rashford as well, until the point we signed Bruno.

The lack of a link between midfield and the striker was devastating for us, and going into last season with Andreas, Lingard and Mata as the number 10 options was negligent and we were fortunate to get away with it.
Martial's form definitely dropped when Rashford got injured but not as badly. From memory he actually played quite well the game before Bruno came in.

Obviously they did depend on each other quite a lot though, which is understandable as they were miles better than everyone else around them. With Pogba also out the two of them basically had to do everything themselves.