Is Jadon Sancho really worth the 100 plus million fee?

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Dan600

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We extended Ighalo to January. What are the chances we're going back in for him then, when we think we'll get him for £60-70M due to COVID, only to still pay the £110-120M near the end of the January window..
 

cyberman

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This is the bottom line I think. In a normal season, sure. Now though? If things get worse clubs that were not careful with their money could get in trouble.
Its not just that,if there was a date for a cure then maybe it can pick up a bit. If its where we are now with a cure closer but mass vaccination not available for another year or so (best case scenario) then the market will crumble even further. Clubs with sugar daddy owners be damned.
Next year we will have Mbappe, Halaand and Jadon on the market. All will be a lot cheaper than we realise as of now.
 

RedNed77

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It certainly warrants the discussion. As good as Sancho is, is he a clear cut upgrade to what Greenwood does give us in that position? If we don`t see him as a pure rw, is he a clear cut upgrade to any of Rashford, Martial or Bruno? He just might be that good, but it is hard to tell now. How much could 2-3 very good players in other positions improve us? Our defence and midfield is not fantastic by any stretch.
Same thought for me, I think Greenwood would probably score more over a full season playing from that position, but Sancho will make up for his shortfall in goals with assists. Is that worth £120m whilst we have to play Lindelof and run the final bit of legs off Matic? Not for me. Good player and if we had an unlimited budget I’d have him everyday of the week. But we could use that money better with a less expensive rotation player to give Greenwood a break and throw the rest of the cash at a CB and a young upcoming defensively minded midfielder.
 

Drz

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Personally wanted a world class DM for a long time now. But the media and most fans prefer RW or a CB.
The way i see it, we only have Greenwood for RW and Matic for DM.
But whilst Greenwood's form and fitness need to be managed, he is young, healthy with the potential to be a great player.
Matic not so much. Hence why i'd prefer a world class DM, because it would balance the team.

As for Sancho the numbers are impressive but the few games i did watch of his left me scratching my head. So i dont feel he is worth +100mil, the same way i didn't feel Felix was worth the money spent (despite a higher technical ceiling), ditto for Dembele, ditto for Havertz.

But i get it's subjective to a degree, as i can understand the plethora of options he gives us upfront if he joins us, so people can state that as justification for the price.
However the engine room/midfield balance is more critical in my eyes.
 

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We should bump this thread when Rashford and Martial get injured and we're having to start James/Lingard/Ighalo. Our attacking depth is absolute shite. This was evident last season for the first half of the season when the majority of this forum complained about our shit form. On top of this we haven't had a RW for years. It's like you guys want to suffer. Just pay the money and be done with it, Sancho is absolute quality.
 

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Same thought for me, I think Greenwood would probably score more over a full season playing from that position, but Sancho will make up for his shortfall in goals with assists. Is that worth £120m whilst we have to play Lindelof and run the final bit of legs off Matic? Not for me. Good player and if we had an unlimited budget I’d have him everyday of the week. But we could use that money better with a less expensive rotation player to give Greenwood a break and throw the rest of the cash at a CB and a young upcoming defensively minded midfielder.
Thats all well and good, but the fact of the matter is neither are we going to sign Sancho, nor are we going to use that money to sign backup RW+CB+DM.

Thats the problem.
 

UpWithRivers

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If Dortmund are thinking that Covid will magically go away and the prices will magically rise next summer then they are complete fools. They will never get more than 110 mill for him unless they wait 2/3 years at least for the market to recover. And definitely not 110 straight up cash, Unless he goes to PSG or City or somewhere but even then I doubt it. I think United offering to pay all the money but in installments (if thats true) is a fair deal.
 

Highfather_24

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Personally wanted a world class DM for a long time now. But the media and most fans prefer RW or a CB.
The way i see it, we only have Greenwood for RW and Matic for DM.
You make a valid point.

But you are just considering the first choice. If Matic gets injured, we have Fred/McTominay coming in. They are not like for like, and wont do as good a job. But when Greenwood gets injured we have James/Lingard/Mata coming in. The quality drop is massive.

Hence the greater need for RW than DM. Also because Greenwood is a future CF, and Sancho is a perfect fit. We dont really have a perfect fit/target for DM position do we?
 

jackal&hyde

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We should bump this thread when Rashford and Martial get injured and we're having to start James/Lingard/Ighalo. Our attacking depth is absolute shite. This was evident last season for the first half of the season when the majority of this forum complained about our shit form. On top of this we haven't had a RW for years. It's like you guys want to suffer. Just pay the money and be done with it, Sancho is absolute quality.
I was going to write something like this.

What would people prefer when our starter is not available: Lingard/Pereira at RW or McTom/Fred at DM? I'm much more comfortable with the options for DM then I am with RW.
 

Pughnichi

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Is he worth it...probably not

do we need him...absolutely

it’s not just what he brings individually. Eg Opposition facing us with James in the starting line up would likely pay more attention to Rashford. Bringing quality in means the quality we have benefit from more space/freedom ...assuming we can move the ball quick enough!
 

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Ole cant guarantee that the glazers will ever beat Pogbas fee for a player and I simply cant see Sancho coming here at £108m. We should look at other options. A LF striker to give Greenwood a break. We dont play with wingers anyway or a traditional CF. How many goals do we score anyway with headers when a cross comes from the byline?
 

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Absolutely. He's better than most of the players of a similar profile that were recently sold for a comparable fee (Dembelé, Félix, Havertz, Pépé), with only Mbappé being clearly on another level (as he is to any other young talent around currently). His productivity is insane, he's amazingly versatile (capable of playing anywhere in the attacking third without lowering his standards), he's also English, which is a huge plus for Manchester United (including in terms of the potential commercial revenue).

This is basically a Hazard pt. 2, it's just that the prices has skyrocketed from 2012. It is very expensive, but you won't get a better guarantee than he already has – unless, well, you're signing Mbappé, and that's not an option (at least for us).

Unless a freak injury happens, we're going to be able to sell him for something close to this amount in a few years anyway (if football recovers from this crisis in those 4-5 years as expected). I mean, we even managed to offload Lukaku somehow, with his form playing any part in the price discussions.
 

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Sterling has 10 goals and 13 assists in 15 qualifying games. 3 goals in 7 nations league games
Harry Kane has 15 goals 7 assists in 13 Euro qualifyers. He wasn't impressive in nations league. If you look at the calender, Kane been on fire all 2019.
But I'm not talking about 2019, which was pretty clear in the post.

The last few games, they've all been terrible, and that's the barometer being used to score down Sancho given it's in line with the window opening and people who didn't know him from Adam suddenly scrutinising him and him alone in a side that is performing terribly with bigger names and bigger reputations and higher evaluations.
 

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Absolutely. He's better than most of the players of a similar profile that were recently sold for a comparable fee (Dembelé, Félix, Havertz, Pépé), with only Mbappé being clearly on another level (as he is to any other young talent around currently). His productivity is insane, he's amazingly versatile (capable of playing anywhere in the attacking third without lowering his standards), he's also English, which is a huge plus for Manchester United (including in terms of the potential commercial revenue).

This is basically a Hazard pt. 2, it's just that the prices has skyrocketed from 2012. It is very expensive, but you won't get a better guarantee than he already has – unless, well, you're signing Mbappé, and that's not an option (at least for us).

Unless a freak injury happens, we're going to be able to sell him for something close to this amount in a few years anyway.
I wouldn't call Pépé's fee comparable: he cost €80m and Dortmund want a full 50% more than that for Sancho. If he was available for €80-90m, he'd be here by now.
 

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But I'm not talking about 2019, which was pretty clear in the post.

The last few games, they've all been terrible, and that's the barometer being used to score down Sancho given it's in line with the window opening and people who didn't know him from Adam suddenly scrutinising him and him alone in a side that is performing terribly with bigger names and bigger reputations and higher evaluations.
It's not just the last few games though, I've seen all the games he has played with England and he just hasn't really stood out at all.
 

harms

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I wouldn't call Pépé's fee comparable: he cost €80m and Dortmund want a full 50% more than that for Sancho. If he was available for €80-90m, he'd be here by now.
It's not comparable in isolation, but then Pépé's status is significantly lower than Sancho's (and rightly so). So he's still a good comparison, you just add a different coefficient.
 

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Muppets don’t care. They have committed to it, and are now emotionally invested. The fact that, in real terms, replacing Greenwood in our XI is seen as the most urgent need says enough. Regardless of whatever narrative, RW is factually one of our strongest positions in our XI. Fans and media only like to continue to write about ‘addressing our glaring weakness on the RW’ because, in their minds, Sancho lies on the other side of this addressing. That and the fact that Greenwood wasn’t bought, so he somehow doesn’t come into consideration in this ‘addressing’. We went from Dan James to Mason Greenwood on our right, and the whole world is literally acting as if they haven’t noticed. Because - Jadon Sancho.

I’m a big Sancho fan, and would be delighted if we got him, but Greenwood really is THAT good. I also agree that he will eventually move inside, but fact is, this season, he’ll be a RW. We could, theoretically, sign Sancho next summer, but fans and media are so invested that they don’t want to hear it. So instead, in their lashing out, we get 100 pieces being written a day to try and hurt the club, muppet anger thinly disguised as reasoned and considered debate, and all the talk about the club being mismanaged, incompetent and the rest of it because the fans, nor the press, got their £100m+ Sancho move to talk about. The board, I’d imagine, are not as emotional as that and are simply ignoring it all, as they should. I’m sure they would like to sign Sancho, as would I, but they won’t be bullied into making the decision that, spending 120m on a player to effectively ‘add competition’ to one of our strongest positions, while los money every week, when they feel they could get the same player either for less or when they are financially better positioned to, at a later date.

I love Sancho, and think he is worth the fee, to answer the question, but I am less sure he is worth that fee TO US and RIGHT NOW. Emotion and feet stamping aside, the team won’t be much worse off, if at all, if the club went and got Coman or Dembele on loan and signed Sancho next year. Again, Greenwood is that good, already.
On the money. I think after the last game even Neville came round to the idea of " Sancho would be great but we will never win unless we improve XYZ areas first".

I feel many are just scared that if we don't get him now he will end up elsewhere. I agree United should not be bullied. How many players for 100 + mill are moving around? I dont think teams have the money.
 

AltiUn

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Probably not when we have our own £100m talent playing RW, I wouldn't sign anyone who's going to take significant minutes of Greenwood. We need a good quality back up for him and Rashford though. One of the few things the club deserves praise for is putting together a front 3 who scored 62 and assisted 28 for a combined cost of £36m, spending £108m on Sancho would be luxurious but unnecessary.
 

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Watching Greenwood play makes me think the money would be better spent going for a CB + LB and a cheaper RW for rotation/competition.
 

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Rather than saying is he worth that much. Ask yourself if he's worth the difference that we just can't seem to agree on

Is he worth the extra 10 odd million euros that we're not prepared to pay? What would we do with that extra 10 mill thats better than securing a right winger for many many many years?
 

Drz

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You make a valid point.

But you are just considering the first choice. If Matic gets injured, we have Fred/McTominay coming in. They are not like for like, and wont do as good a job. But when Greenwood gets injured we have James/Lingard/Mata coming in. The quality drop is massive.

Hence the greater need for RW than DM. Also because Greenwood is a future CF, and Sancho is a perfect fit. We dont really have a perfect fit/target for DM position do we?
Well, i am not as "happy" with Matic at DM as i am with Greenwood for RW for starters.
I fully trust Greenwood when he starts not so confident in Matic despite some stellar performances last year (notably vs city).

Then it's all a matter of appreciation, the drop off from Matic to McT is similar than Greenwood to Lingard.
You go from a technically superior option to a grafter, with good work-rate.

Fred can do a job at DM, but versus lesser opposition, not a top 4 team DM but maybe a top 4 box-to-box midfielder.

Basically i am not too happy with the way our midfield is balanced even when Matic plays.

So in my mind buying a world class DM, would help us :
- get the best of our creative midfielders : VdB, Pogba and Bruno whilst allowing a terrier like Fred to cover breaches where the team needs it.
- provide cover to our CBs.
- improve our balance and ability to work the ball out of our half at a higher tempo which should also help our speedy strikers.

Because right now, i just feel we would buy a "Sancho", but not have the ability to serve him regularly.
 

ghagua

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Maybe he is not worth the price that Dortmund is asking for, but he might be worth it to United if he can improve our attack. We desperately need a holding midfielder and a top-class center half though.
 

MUFromLTU

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In my opinion, there are only 2 players in the world that are worth that kind of money currently - Neymar and Mbappe and just because they'd bring that kind of amount from merchandise very quickly.

Unless UK turns money printer on max setting and we get hyperinflation, there's no way buying at all-time high prices, on the all-time worst economy and possibly the biggest financial crisis is logical. This deal would be the equivalent to buying BTC in 2017 at an all-time high just because of the hype surrounding it, ignoring how much the hype increased the price vs actual value at the time.
 

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This thread has a deluge of 'RW' talk in relation to Sancho; are people aware he is equally adept on both flanks as well as through the middle? Rashford's place would be in just as much jeopardy as Greenwood's with Sancho on board. Not only that, it enables two players who really shouldn't be playing so many games in a row, key periods for rest and rotation without our 1st xi missing a beat.

Greenwood should not be used game in and game out; Rashford is coming back from a serious back injury; they are not a pair of wide forwards we should be going into a season utterly reliant on given both of them need to be managed expertly throughout the most arduous season we're going to see in terms of the calendar.

The chasm between them and the back up is a very serious cause for concern as things stand, also. Ole has made it abundantly clear he doesn't trust, or have faith in, the understudies, which, in itself, could lead to our starters being burned out prematurely. Even if Ole puts Mata or James in, the next thing of note becomes how severely the level drops, which will prove costly in terms of points.

Sancho also gives us the flexibility to rest and/or rotate Martial and put Greenwood through the middle. The possibilities Sancho opens up for the attack as a whole with his versatility are another reason why he is worth what he is. He's not just a RW, and should not be seen as such.
 

RedNed77

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Thats all well and good, but the fact of the matter is neither are we going to sign Sancho, nor are we going to use that money to sign backup RW+CB+DM.

Thats the problem.
I do think we'll sign somebody, but I'm just concerned at this point it will be a panic buy for an area of the team we dont really need to strengthen. Remember when we couldnt get enough players who could play the left wing? I'm thinking attacking midfield is the new left wing. Can see a deadline day deal for some shite like Dele Alli coming.
 

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But I'm not talking about 2019, which was pretty clear in the post.

The last few games, they've all been terrible, and that's the barometer being used to score down Sancho given it's in line with the window opening and people who didn't know him from Adam suddenly scrutinising him and him alone in a side that is performing terribly with bigger names and bigger reputations and higher evaluations.
Is it really though? He has played 13 times no? 15 CL games too. In the Bundesliga he has a G or A every game but not at any other level. Just saying. 2 full seasons = 100mill. Not sure TBH. Demebele had 1 full season and they tried to ask for the same. Dortmund are schemers.

Even Couthinho had to play multiple seasons, make premier league team of the season, be multiple club player of the season and make the world cup dream team in order to command 100 mill.

perhaps its based off perceived potenitial but my point stands that none of these 100mill signings ever match this in performance. People still questioning Pogba at 90 mill and he had a much higher profile than Sancho.
 

bond19821982

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When was the last time they did a sale and the player was worth the money spent for the buying club?

Auba is the only one I can think of and Lewa wasn't exactly a sale.

Hummels,Gotze,Dembele, Kagawa, Mkhi all werent worth the money.

Pulisic may be hit but too early to talk.

Did I miss someone?
 

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Yes, we need Sancho desperately. If not him, then someone of a high enough standard to compete with Rashford, Martial and Greenwood. We all saw the outcome of playing James in place of Greenwood last week. The likes of Periera, Mata and Lingard are equally ineffective.

Get Sancho (or a viable alternative) or suffer the consequences.
 

Stacks

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When was the last time they did a sale and the player was worth the money spent for the buying club?

Auba is the only one I can think of and Lewa wasn't exactly a sale.

Hummels,Gotze,Dembele, Kagawa, Mkhi all werent worth the money.

Pulisic may be hit but too early to talk.

Did I miss someone?
They are scammers. Their players all look great in their environment but they overcharge. Sane went for 50 mill. I get he missed this season so that may have played a factor but I doubt Bayern would have to pay 100m for him.
 

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If he was being signed from another PL club, and he was doing what he doing already in the PL, than yes, but there's so much risk involved paying that much when his only real experience is German football.
He should be similarly priced to Harertz
 
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Fortitude

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Is it really though? He has played 13 times no? 15 CL games too. In the Bundesliga he has a G or A every game but not at any other level. Just saying. 2 full seasons = 100mill. Not sure TBH. Demebele had 1 full season and they tried to ask for the same. Dortmund are schemers.

Even Couthinho had to play multiple seasons, make premier league team of the season, be multiple club player of the season and make the world cup dream team in order to command 100 mill.

perhaps its based off perceived potenitial but my point stands that none of these 100mill signings ever match this in performance. People still questioning Pogba at 90 mill and he had a much higher profile than Sancho.
Forwards always go for more - midfielders and defenders going up north of £70m raise eyebrows and are going to be heavily scrutinised.

I don't think you can put England on Sancho as the team is disjointed and hardly anyone in it looks like they do for their club. If you didn't know Alexander-Arnold and only used England as a measure of his ability and standing in the game, you'd have no idea he's regarded as one of the best RB's on the planet, for example.

Kane and Rashford are the two players who have had time in the sun for England and that's due to the nature of their game and their penchant for taking matters into their own hands with their constant pot-shotting from every conceivable angle. That means they don't necessarily need the team around them to be at all cohesive, rather than they themselves being on form. Sancho is not like that. He needs a functional team who play inclusive football - he is not your man for 'single-handed' play, or he's not in his young career to date at least - and that's when his intelligence and quality really shine through. Southgate needs to do far better in this regard, not just for Sancho's sake, but for everyone not named Kane or Rashford.

I would agree with regard to the CL, he hasn't taken it by storm and it would be disingenuous to state otherwise, but he hasn't been below the required standard in it either. Better for us to be after him before a breakout season in the CL or for England, otherwise his value goes north and we're actively out of the running.

About Dortmund: I don't know why so many have their backs up when it comes to them. The market for their players isn't set by them alone - they just 'happen' to have players who are considered the hottest talents on the block. You cannot use the hindsight of Dembele being a crock or having the aspersion cast about his character now, rather, you go back to his body of work in France and then Dortmund, and see the trajectory up to the point Barcelona paid what they did. He was very much the hottest prospect in the world for a time who looked like a potential ballon d'or winner. You are always going to pay the highest premium for that kind of player irrespective of whether they then go on to tank - that's not the sellers problem.

Greenwood hasn't done much in the grand scheme of things, but relative to his age, he is perhaps the hottest prospect in the PL. If any club came sniffing around and told us to name our price, outside of 'not for sale' it would be something far, far outside the realms of his actual worth in relation to what he has actually done in the game - they'd be paying out of the eyeballs for the player we believe he can become, whether he reaches that mark or gets nowhere near it for them is utterly irrelevant to us. Sancho is valued in accordance to what talents with so much potential go for.
 

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This thread has a deluge of 'RW' talk in relation to Sancho; are people aware he is equally adept on both flanks as well as through the middle? Rashford's place would be in just as much jeopardy as Greenwood's with Sancho on board. Not only that, it enables two players who really shouldn't be playing so many games in a row, key periods for rest and rotation without our 1st xi missing a beat.

Greenwood should not be used game in and game out; Rashford is coming back from a serious back injury; they are not a pair of wide forwards we should be going into a season utterly reliant on given both of them need to be managed expertly throughout the most arduous season we're going to see in terms of the calendar.

The chasm between them and the back up is a very serious cause for concern as things stand, also. Ole has made it abundantly clear he doesn't trust, or have faith in, the understudies, which, in itself, could lead to our starters being burned out prematurely. Even if Ole puts Mata or James in, the next thing of note becomes how severely the level drops, which will prove costly in terms of points.

Sancho also gives us the flexibility to rest and/or rotate Martial and put Greenwood through the middle. The possibilities Sancho opens up for the attack as a whole with his versatility are another reason why he is worth what he is. He's not just a RW, and should not be seen as such.
Basically this.


All our options to back up the front 3 are considered "deadwood". The more charitable would give James a chance.

In midfield we have DVB, Matic, Bruno, Fred, McTominay and Pogba, for 3 spots. Yet some would prioritize another midfielder?!

We play with 3 forwards and have NO credible backup. So you run them into the ground, or accept a huge drop off in quality.

For a player who can cover both flanks and no.10 role, you would expect to pay a premium.
Isn't that one of the things that excites us about Greenwood?
It gives cover in more places. Better than if you had to cover them individually, with individual fees and wages.
 

luke511

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100% yes. We won't need another external addition to our front 3 for the next 5 years at least and his addition will take us to the next level in terms of flexibility and rotation across our attacking 3 positions. In 5 years time he won't really devalue either, it's clear he'll become a world class talent in this league. It's still an incredibly good investment even at the current price tag.
 

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Forwards always go for more - midfielders and defenders going up north of £70m raise eyebrows and are going to be heavily scrutinised.

I don't think you can put England on Sancho as the team is disjointed and hardly anyone in it looks like they do for their club. If you didn't know Alexander-Arnold and only used England as a measure of his ability and standing in the game, you'd have no idea he's regarded as one of the best RB's on the planet, for example.

Kane and Rashford are the two players who have had time in the sun for England and that's due to the nature of their game and their penchant for taking matters into their own hands with their constant pot-shotting from every conceivable angle. That means they don't necessarily need the team around them to be at all cohesive, rather than they themselves being on form. Sancho is not like that. He needs a functional team who play inclusive football - he is not your man for 'single-handed' play, or he's not in his young career to date at least - and that's when his intelligence and quality really shine through. Southgate needs to do far better in this regard, not just for Sancho's sake, but for everyone not named Kane or Rashford.

I would agree with regard to the CL, he hasn't taken it by storm and it would be disingenuous to state otherwise, but he hasn't been below the required standard in it either. Better for us to be after him before a breakout season in the CL or for England, otherwise his value goes north and we're actively out of the running.

About Dortmund: I don't know why so many have their backs up when it comes to them. The market for their players isn't set by them alone - they just 'happen' to have players who are considered the hottest talents on the block. You cannot use the hindsight of Dembele being a crock or having the aspersion cast about his character now, rather, you go back to his body of work in France and then Dortmund, and see the trajectory up to the point Barcelona paid what they did. He was very much the hottest prospect in the world for a time who looked like a potential ballon d'or winner. You are always going to pay the highest premium for that kind of player irrespective of whether they then go on to tank - that's not the sellers problem.

Greenwood hasn't done much in the grand scheme of things, but relative to his age, he is perhaps the hottest prospect in the PL. If any club came sniffing around and told us to name our price, outside of 'not for sale' it would be something far, far outside the realms of his actual worth in relation to what he has actually done in the game - they'd be paying out of the eyeballs for the player we believe he can become, whether he reaches that mark or gets nowhere near it for them is utterly irrelevant to us. Sancho is valued in accordance to what talents with so much potential go for.
True.

Dortmund players have a habit of not looking as good at other teams. I would expect his numbers to come down drastically. I would be delighted with 15 G 15 A seasons from him each year.
 

gorky_utd

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Maybe not worth of 120 million right now but this is probably his peak value. By asking for 120m, Bvb is making sure they don't miss out on any money if Sancho fulfills his potential. Add to the fact that current utd squad do not have any proper rw, and he is a young English talent, this is a price we need to pay to reach the next step.
 

Verminator

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The cover Ighalo provides has cost us £10.5million, obviously with no intrinsic value of a sell-on fee.
Is 5 years of Sancho, for twice that p.a. better value?
Of course.

Then he would also have a resale value, hopefully higher than we paid.
He'd have to lose half his value, to cost the same rate as Ighalo.
 
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