Is Jose Mourinho still our best manager post Fergie?

Jim Beam

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My favorite part of his reign was when he said Sanchez doesn't have anyone to play with during preseason because that's not the United team. With Greenwood there. (that and Sevilla debacle)

"We don't have wingers, we don't have strikers. He is the only one who is here and the poor man is trying his best with the frustration of somebody who wants more. This is not our team, this is not our squad - not even 30 per cent of it.
Alexis of all people. The poor man on astronomical wages you wanted at all costs. Any team with a bit of pride would tell him to feck off. Thanks for two trophies, wasn't worth it.
 

432JuanMata

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For once the Caf has nailed it. For success and trophies he most definitely is but overall he was the wrong choice and it was a bad match that was always going to end the way it did
 

432JuanMata

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Also he showed how little the owners anc Ed knew about football. We spend money with LVG and yes it was boring and all but he created a style and when sacked if our owners/board knew anything about football would of got a manager that improved on that style.

Instead we got the highest profile manager who then had to spend loads of money plus sell players as he has a completely different style of football.Seeing City prepare for Pep and us doing that is my biggest frustration in the last 8 years.
 

simonhch

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Just another thinly veiled ole out thread in a long line of thinly veiled threads.
They're all coming out of the woodwork, daggers drawn and sharpened.

It really is quite pathetic.

I await the ' not as pathetic blah blah blah' responses.
Exactly. One has to take a holistic view of the progress we’ve made. Football has fine margins. But under Ole I think we’ve made 4 semis and one final in two years, had a third place finish and a second place finish. We’ve been in and around the arguments in most tournaments at the business end. Clearly there’s that next step to take, and work still to be done but he’s earned the right to get support and more time because there is clearly great progress, consistency, and improvements in so many areas on and off the pitch.

This is another Ole out thread, which wouldn’t exist if two penalties that gone the other way. Fans are so fickle and reactionary.
 

Bilbo

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Far more reasonable than some of the other crap I’ve read in this thread today.

I agree in that Ole out of all the managers we’ve had definitely puts the club first and wants to bring players through and play attacking football. However I still feel he’s pragmatic at heart and has been unable to get away from that so far. For someone who played under Fergie he’s surprisingly quite risk adverse. I think two and a half years in we should be more expansive in our play.

The other point about the “right way” I dunno. I feel ultimately the right way is winning. Guardiolas winning trophy after trophy at city and in six years only one young player has been given a chance in the first team. His method has been buy until you get there. Is that the wrong way?

Under Sir Alex and Sir Matt it was about winning, second was never deemed success. Is that not the right and United way? Attacking, winning, going all out to win. We’re still way too short of these things.
On the contrary I think we are very close to winning. A lot of people look at these semi-final and final defeats as a negative. Not for me. Its actually quite common to see teams struggle to get the first one over the line. I think one thing most of us can agree on is that we've been unlucky with cup draws under Ole. We invariably get close to if not the hardest draw we can almost every time, and we are still going deep in pretty much every competition. It won't be long before we start turning these opportunities into trophies.

With regards to City, what we have there is a club that have done almost everything right for a decade. The have endless financial power with little regard for the rules. They hired the best coach in the world and they were already planning for him years before he arrived. Its a perfect setup and they deserve to be where they are really.

Compare that to the mess that this club have been for much of that period and ask yourself genuinely whether it is fair to expect us to be competing with them right now. We are two years into a project with a view to surpassing them in another two, IF we also do everything right, and in my view we are doing almost everything right. We will be better next season, and will very likely be better the season after that too, because the club have finally gotten their act together but it takes time to build a squad.

When I talk about the 'right way' I'm not suggesting that winning isn't important. I'm saying that the United Way should always be to attempt to build sustainable and continuous success in a stable environment. I'm not interested in winning two trophies and then struggling for the next five seasons because of what we had to do to get there.
 

Brexit_Brigade

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Who cares? When Mourinho won it, he barely scraped by the mighty Rostov and Anderlecht.
Yeah. I didn't attempt to claim he dominated the competition.

You can belittle as much as you want buddy, it doesn't take away from the fact that it's exactly what happened.

Like, I'd readily agree Solksjaer made mistakes that probably costed us victory, but fact remains we looked more likely to win and lost in a lengthy penalty shootout.

No manager who totally loses the dressing room can be considered our best manager post-Fergie. Even Ole-outers could at least pick Van Gaal, who stubborn and wasteful as he was did at least try to do interesting things.
At least what the other guy was saying was actually factual. "Looked more likely to win" is not a fact.

And disagreeing that Solskjaer is our best manager post-Fergie so far does not equate to being an "Ole-outer". I can't stand the toxic prick, but he won a couple of trophies and matched Solskjaer's best league finish. Will be lovely to see Solskjaer move clear of him next season - until that happens, the one with the best league points tally and most trophies since Ferguson retired is our best manager since Ferguson retired.
 
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Greck

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"If the criteria is trophies"

I'm sorry, what else was the criteria going to be? What were we mocking arsenal or Liverpool fans over those 30 odd years? I'm sure they enjoyed the seasons under King Kenny and brendan rogers too. Any losing team without expectations can "enjoy" a season. Winning teams are supposed to do both. The football under Jose became sour after we stopped winning. That first season wasn't actually bad. Bump any thread from then. We're on a 3 year trophyless spell, I wouldn't take Jose back in a million years but I wouldn't trade his United tenure for Ole's either
 

MackRobinson

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Ole by far. EL is a mickey mouse cup. It only matters if you didn't qualify for the CL.
 

JoeyJoJoJrShabadoo

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To OP....YES! Its sad but true as he is a shell of the man who took Porto to European gold but Mourinho is the best so far. He should have succeeded Fergie with that title winning team to be honest.

I personally want Ole to succeed him beyond doubt but Mou got a second place over 80 points and won 2 cups. Ole needs to beat that.

Ole has improved the team, largely shipped out the wasters but bottled every big opportunity so far to lift a trophy. My major worry with Ole is he is learning in the job and his inability to react in game means he will never succeed as a top manager. Hope I am wrong.
 

Nori-

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As much as his football was horrible to watch, it got results I guess.

I'm upset at Ole not winning anything in 2 and a half years but would I swap it for Jose again. Never.

That was a horrible time to be a United fan, it sucked almost every bit of passion I had for the club/football out of me.
 

Chabon

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This is every single 38 game season we’ve had in the premier league ranked by points:

2000 Ferguson 91
2009 Ferguson 90
2007 Ferguson 89
2013 Ferguson 89
2012 Ferguson 89
2008 Ferguson 87
2010 Ferguson 85
2003 Ferguson 83
2006 Ferguson 83
1996 Ferguson 82
2018 Mourinho 81
2011 Ferguson 80
2001 Ferguson 80
1999 Ferguson 79
2005 Ferguson 77
2002 Ferguson 77
1998 Ferguson 77
1997 Ferguson 75
2004 Ferguson 75
2021 Solskjaer 74
2015 Van Gaal 70
2017 Mourinho 69
2020 Solskjaer 66
2019 Solskjaer 66
2016 Van Gaal 66
2014 Moyes 64

Draw your own conclusions.
 

justsomebloke

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This is becoming a rather pointless thread that does little except endlessly replay the evident fact that people are looking at the question from two different angles, which gives two different replies:

1. Trophies and points is the only criterion
2. A broader set of factors should be considered

Added to which is that most people see it as self-evident that their set of criteria is the only reasonable one. Not arguing that I'm beyond that part of it myself, to me it seems bleedin' obvious that it's got to be #2, otherwise you're not answering the question and just have to ignore most of the things that are actually the most important elements in it.
 

Tomuś

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The football was dire. Yes we won some silverware but honestly if it meant watching that United side or no trophies, i'd rather have no trophies.
Well, we aren't exactly United 94' level of watchable as it is are we.
 

Andersons Dietician

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I’m not even that sure the Carling cup and Europa are anything to be proud of. I would give LVG’s FA cup win more weight than the other two. Ones generally for teams to play the kids in and the others just a reminder you weren’t quite good enough for the proper competition so here is your consolation prize. You’re the best of the B sides.

As for the other stuff Jose did, It might still not be perfect but it’s infinitely better than than the absolute dross he served up. Still can’t believe people thought he was a good appointment.
 

jlecesne

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Yes and no. Obviously won more trophies than anyone else but he was a total embarrassment.

His heritage comments after Sevilla are the most disrespectful and ridiculous comments I’ve heard out of any manager at any club
 

Bastian

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Yes and no. Obviously won more trophies than anyone else but he was a total embarrassment.

His heritage comments after Sevilla are the most disrespectful and ridiculous comments I’ve heard out of any manager at any club
I said this recently, but I didn't mind those comments. He was basically having a huge dig at the board and how the club has been run. In his first interview as United manager he said the past few years are something to forget, but to remember the great history. Didn't quite work out that way, but I've no doubt he had a problem with how the club was run.
 

Hester_manc

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This is every single 38 game season we’ve had in the premier league ranked by points:

2000 Ferguson 91
2009 Ferguson 90
2007 Ferguson 89
2013 Ferguson 89
2012 Ferguson 89
2008 Ferguson 87
2010 Ferguson 85
2003 Ferguson 83
2006 Ferguson 83
1996 Ferguson 82
2018 Mourinho 81
2011 Ferguson 80
2001 Ferguson 80
1999 Ferguson 79
2005 Ferguson 77
2002 Ferguson 77
1998 Ferguson 77
1997 Ferguson 75
2004 Ferguson 75
2021 Solskjaer 74
2015 Van Gaal 70
2017 Mourinho 69
2020 Solskjaer 66
2019 Solskjaer 66
2016 Van Gaal 66
2014 Moyes 64

Draw your own conclusions.
From 89 points in 2013 to 64 in 2014. That still hurts. Crazy...
 

jlecesne

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I said this recently, but I didn't mind those comments. He was basically having a huge dig at the board and how the club has been run. In his first interview as United manager he said the past few years are something to forget, but to remember the great history. Didn't quite work out that way, but I've no doubt he had a problem with how the club was run.
I’m not going to defend the board/ownership/Woodward. We all know their track record. But he disrespected the fans and players more than anything. Sevilla have more heritage? Sevilla have better players? Sevilla have a more worldwide passionate fan base? I think not. He’s a child, lost a tie that he shouldn’t have and came up with any excuse to deflect blame from himself.
 

Stacks

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Mourinhos EL - Second in a group with Fenerbache, Feyenord, Zorya. Then beat St Etienne, Rostov, Anderlecht, Celta Vigo, Ajax.

In his CL group it was Moscow, Basel, Benfica then went out to Sevilla with a draw and a loss.

Comparatively

Oles Europa Run - Beat PSG, Leipzig, Granada, AC Milan, Sociedad, Roma lost to Villarreal.

First season topped the group with AZ, Partizan, Astana then beat Brugge, Lask, Copenhagen. Losing to Sevilla 2-1(in a game we dominated).

In CL beat PSG in the quarters.

Looking at both their runs, Ole has beaten much better teams in Europe including in knockout rounds than Mourinho did.

The draw was very kind to Mourinho as is often the case with winners.

In the FA Cup this season we beat Liverpool and West Ham, going out to the winners. Mourinho beat Brighton & Tottenham to reach his final that he lost to Chelsea.

In Mourinhos first season we finished 6th.
In Oles first full season we finished 4th.
Both got 2nd in their 2nd season.
The draw was kind to us in last season Europa and we still didn't win it! Jose also got more points in the league. We won 2 cups and a final with Jose and Ole has 0 cups 1 final. The main difference is cup success which Ole has made mistakes and cost us
 

Rightnr

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Objectively, yes. He was a prick and he played boring football and he left us in a bit of a shambles but he is.
 

redrobed

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Yes. First and foremost I demand silverware. He’s the only one that met that primary, overriding objective. Style of play wasn’t great but wasn’t under the others heither and we didn’t win anything there either.
 

Forevergiggs1

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We haven't had a best manager since SAF retired. I thought dinosaurs were extinct so finding 4 in Manchester in the last 8 years is no mean feat.
 

UweBein

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As much as his football was horrible to watch, it got results I guess.

I'm upset at Ole not winning anything in 2 and a half years but would I swap it for Jose again. Never.

That was a horrible time to be a United fan, it sucked almost every bit of passion I had for the club/football out of me.
Exactly, I also think that Mourinho was really a hindrance for the further development of the team, given he took over from Van Gaal. And I do think he really was one of the worst solutions for the transformation of United.

Now, he might have been a much better choice as a direct successor for Sir Alex, but that's another situation, really.
 

Gavinb33

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The draw was kind to us in last season Europa and we still didn't win it! Jose also got more points in the league. We won 2 cups and a final with Jose and Ole has 0 cups 1 final. The main difference is cup success which Ole has made mistakes and cost us
Seville knocked us out over 1 game though not over 2 legs and we dominated that game it was hardly on Ole the attackers couldn't finish their dinner.
 
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hobbers

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Obviously trophies are the most important (and for a United manager, the only) measure of success.

But I would maybe make the argument the FA cup is worth more than B-team competitions like the League Cup + Europa. So maybe LVG actually is :lol:


If Ole gets to the end of next season without having won a trophy, anyone trying to claim he's been more successful as a manager for us than Mourinho or LVG are out of their minds. Ole himself would not agree with that level of delusion.
 

Brexit_Brigade

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But I would maybe make the argument the FA cup is worth more than B-team competitions like the League Cup + Europa. So maybe LVG actually is :lol:
Valid, but when you've only won three trophies in eight seasons it's also worth considering league performance, and Van Gaal is out of the running there. He got worse in his second season!

Mourinho won a couple of B trophies in his first season and crossed the 80-point barrier in his second, improving by 12 points.
 

BorisManUtd

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Obviously trophies are the most important (and for a United manager, the only) measure of success.

But I would maybe make the argument the FA cup is worth more than B-team competitions like the League Cup + Europa. So maybe LVG actually is :lol:


If Ole gets to the end of next season without having won a trophy, anyone trying to claim he's been more successful as a manager for us than Mourinho or LVG are out of their minds. Ole himself would not agree with that level of delusion.
He's already been more successful than LvG imo. The way van Gaal finished 4th and 5th in those 2 seasons where all teams or most of the teams were in some kind of transition and he spent so much money and most of his signings were terrible in the end for us. He won the FA cup by beating Everton and Palace, not one tough opponent in the process.

Mourinho is still our most successful manager since Fergie. Next season decides if it stays that way or Ole can prove doubters (including me) wrong and get this team to next level (in terms of points won in PL, CL campaign and winning some silverware finally).
 

Abraxas

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How exactly are people stating that trophies are the only measure of success? It's a very important one but it's not out on its own, we want to be a good side long into the future.

If you win one or two lesser trophies and leave the club in a mess that takes a year or two to clear up, that isn't justifiable at all. They become years when the chances of winning something are very difficult, more difficult than they should be if the manager was less infantile and made good medium term decisions, even if long-term thinking isn't really his forte. Of course one shouldn't look a gift horse in the mouth when the trophies are there to win but short-termism is not something that has typically been associated with this club and it does have ramifications long after the name is etched on said trophy. Well, the proof was pretty much in the pudding with Jose's ignominious departure and the rebuilding job we are now carrying out.

Being the manager of our club is about more than that. It's also bringing players through, hopefully entertaining one or two people along the way, spending the money we generate wisely, generally keeping the footballing side in good health. Mourinho was pretty much horrendous on these counts. If he'd won a league or CL then maybe it is a different story because those titles have become so hard to win we could go another 5 years without winning one even if we make excellent decisions as a club. Maybe then making sacrifices is worth it. What Jose gave us was by no means worth it and I'll never see his stint as anything other than poor overall. The scary thing is if he'd have had his own way the reign would have undoubtedly been even more costly considering some of the players he wanted.
 

Nicoseth

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Absolutely no chance. Okay, he won two second rate trophies in one of his seasons. Apart from that, the football was dire, he sold out his players and put our progression back several years. People talk about the 81 point season - so what? We were still miles off the top. I barely remember that season even though we got a lot of points.

Under Ole, there have been low points, but he has rebuilt the identity of the team. The football is much better, I'd argue, and the progression is obvious.