Is Jose Mourinho still our best manager post Fergie?

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Fully Fledged

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This would have been fine if it was actually a one off game and not a series of bottling jobs we have been seeing in literally every cup competition last few years, and even in the last league season once we went up top.

We have been shit in every one off crucial game whenever we're close to win something last 3 years. This isn't Villareal game only.
I'm the first to say that we are not the finished article. We have a long way to go if we are going to win something major but we have moved on massively since Jose's last season.
Is Ole the man that will finally win us a major trophy? I don't know but he is a massive set up from Jose even if he never wins anything. At least I've got a team that I look forward to watching week in and week out.
 

Bebestation

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For me Jose is such a very short term manager with constant future problems building up within the squad due to his decisions and mindset - that a club as big and historical as United won’t find an Europa League or FA CUP good enough from him.

If the manager is Jose then he has to win the league at least because the damage is there like an infection that keeps growing.
 

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I'm the first to say that we are not the finished article. We have a long way to go if we are going to win something major but we have moved on massively since Jose's last season.
Is Ole the man that will finally win us a major trophy? I don't know but he is a massive set up from Jose even if he never wins anything. At least I've got a team that I look forward to watching week in and week out.
I don't give a shit about Mourinho. As I said who cares about who was the best manager in such shit period ? The bar is rock bottom for all of them. Neither of them has set the world on fire, yes, including the current manager.

My problem is people who are actually trying to paint this Villareal's loss as some sort of a normal loss that just happened and nothing more. Really damn gets on my nerve.

For me this game was pretty much the culmination of all Ole's problems as a coach. Every bad thing he has as a coach appeared in this game, and literally every bad thing about current United appeared in this game. It was basically a summary of all the bottling jobs we have been doing for 3 years now in every one off crucial game.

Yes, Ole has done a very good job as a manager rebuilding the squad and signing good players. Yes, his tenure as a manager has several positives and isn't a 100% failure (Actually neither were LVG and Mourinho, only Moyes was fully shit from start to finish, Ole, LVG and Mourinho had their positives and negatives, but as I said the bar is rock bottom for all of them and these 8 years have all been shit for United standards). However as a coach Ole is an average or a below average manager, and he shows his limitation massively whenever we're close to win something.

The current Manchester United looks closer to Poch's Spurs than anything. A nice team, plays good football some times, are well and good as long as there's no pressure to win anything. Once this side is close to win something or on top of something, once the pressure is on, we shit the bed and lose everything. Semis ? Shit. Final ? Shit. CL group in which we needed one point of 2 games or defeat a shit Turkish side ? Shit. Lead the league table 3 points ahead of 2nd spot ? Shit the bed and drop 10 points away from the top 2 weeks later.

Just a nice, good looking team, but unfortunately not winners per se. At one point Ole needs to take the blame for how his team seems to crumble under the pressure of winning something.

As I said comparing the managers post Fergie looks to me like a pointless discussion. Neither of them set the world on fire. Neither of them deserve anything higher than 7/10 for United standards, in my opinion.
 

Foxbatt

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Pretty much bossed a decent Ajax side in the final though to be fair
That was a master class. And without our talisman Zlatan. Ajax didn't get a kick in. We should have scored a lot more than two.
 

Andycoleno9

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Pretty much bossed a decent Ajax side in the final though to be fair
That final and this final are best examples how manager by himself can win or lose game.
Jose had a plan, scouted Ajax and just played on their flaws. Then after we took a lead he controled the game. We were never in danger in that game. Btw; he did it with players like Darmian, Smalling, Blind and Fellaini.

Ole went with plan; lets enjoy in final. And then during the game he failed to make any influence. And that game is best proof how limited he is and why we will never win anything with him.
 

Sandikan

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If Ole had won that Europa he'd have probably edged above Jose.
But as Jose had a season coming 2nd himself, and won a trophy another season, he still holds it unfortunately.
 

JustAGuest

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If you judge managers solely based on the number of trophies they win - then yes. Otherwise Ole is ahead.
 

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I don't give a shit about Mourinho. As I said who cares about who was the best manager in such shit period ? The bar is rock bottom for all of them. Neither of them has set the world on fire, yes, including the current manager.

My problem is people who are actually trying to paint this Villareal's loss as some sort of a normal loss that just happened and nothing more. Really damn gets on my nerve.

For me this game was pretty much the culmination of all Ole's problems as a coach. Every bad thing he has as a coach appeared in this game, and literally every bad thing about current United appeared in this game. It was basically a summary of all the bottling jobs we have been doing for 3 years now in every one off crucial game.

Yes, Ole has done a very good job as a manager rebuilding the squad and signing good players. Yes, his tenure as a manager has several positives and isn't a 100% failure (Actually neither were LVG and Mourinho, only Moyes was fully shit from start to finish, Ole, LVG and Mourinho had their positives and negatives, but as I said the bar is rock bottom for all of them and these 8 years have all been shit for United standards). However as a coach Ole is an average or a below average manager, and he shows his limitation massively whenever we're close to win something.

The current Manchester United looks closer to Poch's Spurs than anything. A nice team, plays good football some times, are well and good as long as there's no pressure to win anything. Once this side is close to win something or on top of something, once the pressure is on, we shit the bed and lose everything. Semis ? Shit. Final ? Shit. CL group in which we needed one point of 2 games or defeat a shit Turkish side ? Shit. Lead the league table 3 points ahead of 2nd spot ? Shit the bed and drop 10 points away from the top 2 weeks later.

Just a nice, good looking team, but unfortunately not winners per se. At one point Ole needs to take the blame for how his team seems to crumble under the pressure of winning something.

As I said comparing the managers post Fergie looks to me like a pointless discussion. Neither of them set the world on fire. Neither of them deserve anything higher than 7/10 for United standards, in my opinion.
Okay.
Well seeing as you replied to my post in a thread about Jose being the best manager since SAF then I replied on that basis.
Am I happy where we currently are ? No I want Man Utd to be winning major trophies.

The problem is that we still need major investment. Bringing in Harry, Bruno and Eddie on a free while being good business is a start but no where near enough to be looking at major trophies. After 90 minutes on Wednesday I looked at the bench and could see nobody who would improve the team or even keep the same consistency but with fresher legs.

Our main problem is underinvestment by the Glazers. We had no one on the bench who I would have brought on that wouldn't drop our performance level.

I want to see what Ole can do with genuine investment but don't see the Glazers sanctioning that.
 

el3mel

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Okay.
Well seeing as you replied to my post in a thread about Jose being the best manager since SAF then I replied on that basis.
Am I happy where we currently are ? No I want Man Utd to be winning major trophies.

The problem is that we still need major investment. Bringing in Harry, Bruno and Eddie on a free while being good business is a start but no where near enough to be looking at major trophies. After 90 minutes on Wednesday I looked at the bench and could see nobody who would improve the team or even keep the same consistency but with fresher legs.

Our main problem is underinvestment by the Glazers. We had no one on the bench who I would have brought on that wouldn't drop our performance level.

I want to see what Ole can do with genuine investment but don't see the Glazers sanctioning that.
I honestly don't get the squad depth problems. Most of the squad depth is players Ole approved for. Telles, Diallo, James and VDB were all his signings and they were basically signed to be such squad depth. He also extended Mata's contract to be a squad depth. Bailly extended his contract to be a squad depth as well. Aren't all these his decisions ?

Villareal didn't have world beaters on the bench either, but they just used what they have.

Unfortunately for me I just don't see it with Ole. I think he has done a good job rebuilding the squad. I think the squad he built has ton of quality, and that's a big positive for him. However I just don't see him managing to take the next step. This team crumbles massively under failure and the manager needs to take part of the blame when it comes to the mentality of the team in such situation, if he's also getting praised for the mentality of the team when he manages a comeback.

I honestly think this is the max we'll get under Ole. A consistent top 3 finish in the league and good runs in the cup. We might get lucky at one point and win one of those minor cups. Will we win the league or challenge for CL under Ole ? I just don't see it, unfortunately. I think this is really his peak with us. I don't see a team of winners in Ole's United.

I hope I'll be proven wrong.
 

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To me Ole is our best manager post Fergie. He is the only one that has got us in to the top four in both of his two seasons (LVG and Jose also had two full seasons). He is the only one that hasn’t lost the dressing room so far. He is the only one that showed progress year on year.
Ole doesn’t know how to negotiate these big cup games like the other two and that is the only place they come out on top and is due to their vast experience in the game. Ole will learn this but whether our fan base will be willing to wait for that, probably not. Even Sir Alex was naive in Europe for much of the 90’s. He even says so himself.
 

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If the criteria are solely trophies, than yes. 2 trophies in his first season, and that 81 point second season are still unmatched by Ole.

We are in a process, a slow process of going back on top, but under Ole we brought something that was missing since Sir Alex retired... The idea of having the uniqueness or X-Factor, or the personality to play for this club. It's not only about money, the players must want to be here. We also changed our view in the transfer market to young players, prospects of the game, that we could develop into starters for many years to come.

I don't think Ole is perfect, and some of his signings are questionable at best, he lacks the tactical masterclass required to win big trophies, but this cultural reset was necessary. 4 years without a trophy is a price to pay, and hopefully will end next season. Ole really cares about this club, and if he's backed in the transfer window, (something that Mou was not in his 3rd season), he should deliver a trophy.
 
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Garethw

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In terms of trophies, Ole is the worst. Even fecking Moyes won the Charity Shield :lol:
 

SAFMUTD

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Best is to describe something that is good, I'd say he's the least worst. Sadly no manager post SAF have done anything remotely remarcable to say they are the best of anything. Results have been so poor it doesnt even worth discussing about who is less shitty than who.
 

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They were all about 12 though, weren't they? De Ligt, Sanchez, Kluivert, van de Beek.
Still a good team and we didn't have our first choice defence or Zltatan. Jose was a bit lucky with the semi final result but the final was never in doubt.
 

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To me Ole is our best manager post Fergie. He is the only one that has got us in to the top four in both of his two seasons (LVG and Jose also had two full seasons). He is the only one that hasn’t lost the dressing room so far. He is the only one that showed progress year on year.
Ole doesn’t know how to negotiate these big cup games like the other two and that is the only place they come out on top and is due to their vast experience in the game. Ole will learn this but whether our fan base will be willing to wait for that, probably not. Even Sir Alex was naive in Europe for much of the 90’s. He even says so himself.
Sense. How anybody could look at Mourinho’s time here, including the 2nd place finish (where nobody was remotely happy with the style or direction) and then the final season where he went into complete self destruct with absolute abandon for the club and playing staffs well-being and progress, and then say he is the best we’ve had since Fergie is mental.
 

Bilbo

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Out of interest, can you elaborate on this further. In terms of doing things the “right way”. What does that entail? And what did Lvg, Moyes and Mourinho do that didn’t fit into the “right way”.
And what is our clubs identity? And again? What are the differences between what Ole has been doing compared to what the other three were doing?
I guess the best way that I can condense it into something shorter than a book is by saying - 'Jose was building a football team, but Ole is building a football club'

I didn't have a massive issue with Van Gaal apart from the football and his signings. Moyes I felt and still feel would have been successful here given time. Jose was just a mistake of our own making.

People still underestimate what Ole had to take over from, and what he has done here. Our fans have no patience, and he isn't perfect, but he is creating layers. We have a youngish first team that is promising, full of leaders, and getting better. Below that we have a very promising group of players that have, crucially, the right environment to be able to succeed here. It feels like a more stable football club now, and while that isn't solely down to Ole I bet a lot of it is. Our players look and sound happier, and others will see that and want to come here.

What I see is a manager that wants to play attacking football. He wants to bring players through the academy. He wants this club to be healthier, on and off the pitch, than it has been and in both cases we undoubtedly are. We are not all the way there yet on the football sometimes, but we are improving all the time. As I said above, he isn't perfect, but I'll take all of these things and be proud of the club again because they are more important than micro-analysing his substitution timing or any of the other stuff the entitled mob get hung up about.
 

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Ole still needs this window and maybe the January window to get the last of the unwanted players out of the club. Then finally we might have a squad thats not a mixture of fergie/moyes/van gaal and Mourinho. Ole is doing a good job despite some of his limitations.
 

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Under Solskjaer, the football is better to watch. The team spirit is also far better there seems a sense of togetherness. He's also been good at moving on those who need moving on. Players like Fellaini, Young, Rojo, Darmian, Smalling who with respect to them had had their time.
 

JPRouve

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Mou didn't achieve what he was bought in for. Ole so far hasn't either.
What is Ole's mission? I could be wrong but I think that he was brought to steady the ship and build the backbone of the team while bringing peace and positivity. In my opinion he has fulfilled his mission.
 

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What is Ole's mission? I could be wrong but I think that he was brought to steady the ship and build the backbone of the team while bringing peace and positivity. In my opinion he has fulfilled his mission.
I am sorry but mission of a Manchester United manager, here for third year and about to sign another 3-year contract, will always be to win.
 

edgecutter

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All the managers we have had since Fergus have been below par and that includes the current manager. The fact that people here keep saying ole has been the best show how far standards have dropped. Ole hasn't won a thing coming up to 3 years now and that wouldn't have been acceptable for any manager at a top club and it shouldn't be awarded with a new 3 year deal either.

Furthermore, when you compare managers ole won't even come close to being up their with Jose as you are judged on what you have won. Ole has won nothing and could potentially go another year without winning anything again.
 

JPRouve

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I am sorry but mission of a Manchester United manager, here for third year and about to sign another 3-year contract, will always be to win.
In theory and ideally you are right but realistically you don't sign Ole because you want to win within 3 years. You can see it as a sad or upsetting reality but that's the situation we found ourselves in 2019.
 

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Overall yes. He was obviously the best of the bunch, but declining and not world class. Same for Van Gaal. Ole and Moyes are below.
 

Luke1995

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Moyes was terrible. Van Gaal won just one trophy. Mourinho won two. (well, three if you count the community shield...)

And Ole had the opportunity to win a trophy but blew it. Make what you will of Mourinho but he always showed up in the finals.
 

Buster15

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That final and this final are best examples how manager by himself can win or lose game.
Jose had a plan, scouted Ajax and just played on their flaws. Then after we took a lead he controled the game. We were never in danger in that game. Btw; he did it with players like Darmian, Smalling, Blind and Fellaini.

Ole went with plan; lets enjoy in final. And then during the game he failed to make any influence. And that game is best proof how limited he is and why we will never win anything with him.
Agree with you about Jose and the Ajax final.
But if Ole plan was lets enjoy the final, then that isn't a plan. In fact there was no plan and it showed.
Only Villareal actually had a plan. And that was to frustrate United. And it worked. They won.
 

JPRouve

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The problem with Mourinho is that for example the EL title was one of the worst football experience that I have ever had, I wouldn't watch any of the games if you paid me. He absolutely atomized the club's finances by almost doubling the wage bill with players weren't worth half of the money spent and his cult is insufferable.
 

shamans

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What is Ole's mission? I could be wrong but I think that he was brought to steady the ship and build the backbone of the team while bringing peace and positivity. In my opinion he has fulfilled his mission.
That may have been his initial mission but if that was it he'd be gone by now. We need to be competitive and/or win titles.
 

JPRouve

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That may have been his initial mission but if that was it he'd be gone by now. We need to be competitive and/or win titles.
Why would he be gone by now? I would say that his or next season should be his last unless he shows or the club believes that he can lead us to the next stage, I don't think that the rebuilding was clearly over before this year.
 

shamans

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Why would he be gone by now? I would say that his or next season should be his last unless he shows or the club believes that he can lead us to the next stage, I don't think that the rebuilding was clearly over before this year.
Right what I'm saying is if that was his only goal, to stablize the ship he has achieved that and would be gone but I think it's clear we wanna be competitive and that's the new goal now
 

JPRouve

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Right what I'm saying is if that was his only goal, to stablize the ship he has achieved that and would be gone but I think it's clear we wanna be competitive and that's the new goal now
But that new goal is in the near future while I judged his recent past. Maybe he will fail in the future or not fulfill his mission but no one knows about that.
 

Longshanks

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I am sorry but mission of a Manchester United manager, here for third year and about to sign another 3-year contract, will always be to win.
This is the end of his second full season, lets not kid ourselves and try and make out that Ole has had three full seasons, I'm not sure the caretaker spell has a huge amount of bearing on anything, he came in very much temporarily with the job of rescuing some pride, I'm not sure he would of been doing a huge amount of future planning not until he was given the gig full time anyway.

Let's look at this season in context now, we had a very poor summer transfer window, no pre season which resulted in a very poor start to the season and the knives were very much out by the end of September with a lot of people claiming we will struggle to get top 4 and ole would be gone very soon.

Yet here we are at the end of the season having comfortably finished second, reached the semis of league Cup the quarters of the FA Cup and the final of the EL. The only real dissapointment of the season was the CL group exit but it was a brutal group and we only just went out and very nearly hauled ourselves of the floor despite being 3 down away to lepzig.

Is it good enough? No not in the long run but considering that he himself said it was gonna take a big overhaul to get us challenging again i am satisfied with his second full season. If he is backed in the summer with a 2-3 top quality signings then he has to genuinely challenge for major honours if not win them otherwise he would be deemed a failure and could well be looking at the sack. But right now I would say he has done enough.
 
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Iron

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yes mourinho is better, untill now. He also did not have maguire, bruno, awb wich improved a lot our team
 

Buster15

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The record book says so.
But we all know that things just didn't work out at all well.
 

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Pretty much and it shouldn't be hard to tell the difference. It might not be saying much and Ole is doing okayish for someone who is underqualified for the job, I don't think the team is progressing a lot underhim but he isn't nearly as toxic and LVG and Mourinho, so there's that. It might not be the best for the team, from a sportive perspective, but seems the owners are happy with the stability he brings; which should be something good if he can improve or you land a better manager.
 

snk123

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Jose's football was awful but at least he:

1. Made subs and affected the game from the touchline
2. Was ruthless and let players go if they didn't work out (Mkhitariyan)
3. Knew who to sign instead of signing someone and not even playing him properly (Van De Boek)
4. Knew how to win semi-finals and what it took to win crucial games

Ole's football is miles better than Jose and he's definitely the best we've had after Fergie but he needs to rectify his glaring mistakes and learn from Jose's qualities above.
 

Ludens the Red

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I guess the best way that I can condense it into something shorter than a book is by saying - 'Jose was building a football team, but Ole is building a football club'

I didn't have a massive issue with Van Gaal apart from the football and his signings. Moyes I felt and still feel would have been successful here given time. Jose was just a mistake of our own making.

People still underestimate what Ole had to take over from, and what he has done here. Our fans have no patience, and he isn't perfect, but he is creating layers. We have a youngish first team that is promising, full of leaders, and getting better. Below that we have a very promising group of players that have, crucially, the right environment to be able to succeed here. It feels like a more stable football club now, and while that isn't solely down to Ole I bet a lot of it is. Our players look and sound happier, and others will see that and want to come here.

What I see is a manager that wants to play attacking football. He wants to bring players through the academy. He wants this club to be healthier, on and off the pitch, than it has been and in both cases we undoubtedly are. We are not all the way there yet on the football sometimes, but we are improving all the time. As I said above, he isn't perfect, but I'll take all of these things and be proud of the club again because they are more important than micro-analysing his substitution timing or any of the other stuff the entitled mob get hung up about.
Far more reasonable than some of the other crap I’ve read in this thread today.

I agree in that Ole out of all the managers we’ve had definitely puts the club first and wants to bring players through and play attacking football. However I still feel he’s pragmatic at heart and has been unable to get away from that so far. For someone who played under Fergie he’s surprisingly quite risk adverse. I think two and a half years in we should be more expansive in our play.

The other point about the “right way” I dunno. I feel ultimately the right way is winning. Guardiolas winning trophy after trophy at city and in six years only one young player has been given a chance in the first team. His method has been buy until you get there. Is that the wrong way?

Under Sir Alex and Sir Matt it was about winning, second was never deemed success. Is that not the right and United way? Attacking, winning, going all out to win. We’re still way too short of these things.
 
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