Is Mbappe the best french player ever?

[Ladron de redcafe]

He has 7 World Cup goals already. He's been top scorer of his league 4 times already at the age of 24.
His career goal average is a crazy 0.715.

That's just his goal output. His impact on the pitch goes far beyond what many number 9's are.

 

[EtH]

You can think Benzema is better, you’d be wrong IMO but you can think it. No need to talk about common sense though. Ballon d’Or doesn’t mean a player is the best in the world, it’s just a sign of an attacking player that was the best player in the team that accomplished the most over a season. And Benzema was fantastic and fully deserving, I’m not picking him over Mbappé though if I can only have one or the other.

The Ballon d'Or doesn't tell you who is the better player, it's not what the award determines.

Hmmm. I suppose playing for an oil state’s flex thingy in a farmer’s league diminishes people’s views of his accomplishments.

Weird.

 

[Sayros]

Hmmm. I suppose playing for an oil state’s flex thingy in a farmer’s league diminishes people’s views of his accomplishments.

Weird.

And there’s the negative bias. Good thing I don’t care about the opinion of someone who uses terms like ‘farmer’s league’.

 

[EtH]

And there’s the negative bias. Good thing I don’t care about the opinion of someone who uses terms like ‘farmer’s league’.

I suppose you’d have to quit caring about a great many things to have such an opinion.

Do you reckon he’s better than Henry ?

 

[Polar]

Well he is only 23 (24 next month), but never even get into top 3 of Ballon D'or, so apparently he cannot be compared with past great yet.

But if you ask me where he is at now:

Tier 1: Platini, Zidane
Tier 2: Kopa
Tier 3: Henry, Benzema, Fontaine, Tresor, Giresse, Papin, Cantona, Deschamps, Mbappe
Tier 4: Tigana, Griezmann, Blanc, Ribery, Desaily, Vieira, Thuram

He is currently probably in near end of tier 3. In future he has chance to challenge Zidane or even Platini at tier 1.


To give better perspective of best player rankling (individual honours) in their respective era,

In terms of Ballon D'or ranking:

1. Platini (winner x3, 3rd x2)
2. Kopa (winner x1, 2nd x1, 3rd x2)
3. Zidane (winner x1, 2nd x1, 3rd x1)
4. Papin (winner x1)
5. Benzema (winner x1)
6. Henry (2nd x1, 3rd x1)
7. Tigana (2nd x1)
8. Giresse (2nd x1)
9. Griezmann (3rd x2)
10. Fontaine (3rd x1)
11. Cantona (3rd x1)
12. Ribery (3rd x1)

In terms of French player of the year ranking:
(only from 1996 onwards, french players oversea were eligible, hence the likes of Platini, Cantona could have win a few more )

1.Henry (5 times)
2. Benzema (4 times)
3. Giresse (3 times)
4. Ribery (3 times)
5. Platini (2 times) (could have been 6 times)
Papin (2 times)
Zidane (2 times)
Mbappe (2 times)

In terms of team trophies:

1. Deschamps (WC x1, Euro x1, CL x2, trophies x16)
2. Zidane (WC x1, Euro x1, CLx1, trophies x15)
3. Henry (WC x1, Euro x1, CLx1, trophies x18)
4. Vieira (WC x1, Euro x1, trophies x22)
5. Thuram (WC x1, Euro x1, trophies x12)
6. Blanc (WC x1, Euro x1, trophies x8)
7. Kante (WC x1, CL x1, trophies x10)
6. Benzema (CL x5, trophies x31)
7. Platini (Euro x1, CL x1, trophies x12)
8. Kopa (CL x3, trohies x11)
9. Mbappe (WC x1, trophies x14)
10. Pogba (WC x1, trophées x12)
11. Griezmann (WC x1, trophies x7)
12. Ribery (CL x1, trophies x25)
13. Papin (CL x1, trophies x13)

In terms of career goals:

1. Benzema 447
2. Henry 417
3. Platini 353
4. Papin 346
5. Fontaine 288
6. Griezman 276
7. Mbappe 251

I think its just matter of time, in another 7-8 years, he could be up there with the very best.

Least to say I think he is destined to be all time top goalscorer in France and as French player.

Staying at PSG I can see him winning as many team trophies as Benzema (who is on 31). But whether he will have more Ballon D'ors, really depends on whether he could win a few more WC/Euro/CL in future. He has all the support/set up to win all these big trophies though, as he is playing as tailsman for a top country and top football club, and so he will be always in contention for those.

In a historic perspective, Mbappe obviously isn’t the best French player ever. From another perspective I haven’t watched a more extreme and talented French player. Maybe it’s more right to say that Mbappe is “the most talented French player ever”

 

[90 + 5min]

It may sound weird but Zidane for whatever reason seems to get more and more underrated as time goes on. I'd argue he shares GOAT-level status with some of the other stars.

He was in that Galacticos team with other massive stars, and many times he felt like the pick of the bunch.

Thierry Henry for a number of seasons was just a cheat-code of a player - while he was great for France, he was a completely different level at Arsenal though

It isn't wierd at all. Young people nowdays have watched football less and of course don't know past players in same way as we do. If we look at some names here, Platini and Zidane, they are ccouple of steps above Mbappe. Mbappe is still young kid and he surly needs to play somewhere else than France to even be concidered best french player.

You mention Henry. Is Mbappe even better then him? Instantly I would say, no.

 

[JPRouve]

Hmmm. I suppose playing for an oil state’s flex thingy in a farmer’s league diminishes people’s views of his accomplishments.

Weird.

What is the relevance of that? It's such a strange remark to make.

 

[EtH]

What is the relevance of that? It's such a strange remark to make.

The Ballon d’Or. He wasn’t even in the top five.

Seems relevant.

 

[JPRouve]

The Ballon d’Or. He wasn’t even in the top five.

Seems relevant.

It's not, that's not what the Ballon d'Or rates. France Football focuses heavily on continental and international success, the winner and highly rated players during a given season are from the teams that performed and won the CL, World Cup, Euro or Copa America. It rates the best performer during a particular season, not the perceived best current player.

 

[TwoSheds]

Henry was only just starting to step up to the highest level at the same age whereas Mbappé already has a world cup under his belt. Quite remarkable really that he started so young, but has a pretty good fitness record so far and will likely keep improving. Needs to get out of PSG though.

 

[marktan]

He's very likely the best player around currently, but the Ballon D'or comment is relevant because he'll only win it if he plays in a stronger league where his goals would have more weight, or wins the CL. Even then the latter is a guarantee as he could easily be outshone by Neymar.

The point is to be really perceived as the best French footballer or the best anything you need to be playing more than 8 or so games a season against higher level opposition.

 

[EtH]

It's not, that's not what the Ballon d'Or rates. France Football focuses heavily on continental and international success, the winner and highly rated players during a given season are from the teams that performed and won the CL, World Cup, Euro or Copa America. It rates the best performer during a particular season, not the perceived best current player.

I’m honestly not sure what point you’re arguing here.

 

[Sayros]

I suppose you’d have to quit caring about a great many things to have such an opinion.

Do you reckon he’s better than Henry ?

Life’s better when you only care about the things that matter, which are very few.

I think @Fortitude made the comparison better than I could between the two. You should check out his post. I thought it was very well put and I agreed with it. The short answer, at least for France, is yes. Euro 2000 was Henry’s peak for France, and I feel Mbappé has had plenty of games like Henry had in that tournament already, with my favorite being the semi final against Belgium in 2018 where he didn’t even score or assist.

 

[JPRouve]

I’m honestly not sure what point you’re arguing here.

You equate winning the Ballon d'Or with being the better player which is wrong and you then said that Mbappé was downgraded because he plays in Ligue 1 which is again wrong.

 

[EtH]

You equate winning the Ballon d'Or with being the better player which is wrong and you then said that Mbappé was downgraded because he plays in Ligue 1 which is again wrong.

You’re just wrong here. Especially on the last point. The level of competition plays a major part. Particularly when the deck is stacked so far in his favor at PSG in Ligue 1. It’s pretty blatant, and it seems very obvious to many. Including Ballon d’Or voters.

 

[Sayros]

You’re just wrong here. Especially on the last point. The level of competition plays a major part. Particularly when the deck is stacked so far in his favor at PSG in Ligue 1. It’s pretty blatant, and it seems very obvious to many. Including Ballon d’Or voters.

Was Modric the best player in the world when he won?

 

[JPRouve]

You’re just wrong here. Especially on the last point. The level of competition plays a major part. Particularly when the deck is stacked so far in his favor at PSG in Ligue 1. It’s pretty blatant, and it seems very obvious to many. Including Ballon d’Or voters.

If I'm wrong then France Football is wrong, I'm simply parroting what they have said forever. The only exception was when they merged their award with FIFA which isn't the case anymore and was the subject of constant complain by France Football journalists and the chief editor.

 

[EtH]

Was Modric the best player in the world when he won?

Yes.

 

[JPRouve]

Was Modric the best player in the world when he won?

You could add Cannavaro, Owen, Nedved, Shevchenko and a bunch of pre 90s players.

 

[Sayros]

Yes.

Almost as ridiculous as your farmer's league comment, almost.

We're not going to find an agreement here.

 

[General_Elegancia]

re. Henry vs Mbappe, I don't think that's a closed debate or an easy win for Henry, not even close.

Henry's performances, his best ones, were on a lower stage than Mbappe's have been. Mbappe has proven to be a true big game player; Henry was dogged with 'bottler' tags for practically his whole career. When the stage was massive and all eyes were on Henry, he rarely gave his best performances, certainly not like Mbappe has, where the latter seems to thrive in the spotlight and wants the ball as much as possible. Mbappe also plays the big games with a smile on his face and is with the audience in terms of the melodrama; Henry played most big games as if he knew it was defining him and his career, with a grimace and a discomfort.

And when I say 'big games' we're talking CL and country, not domestic football, where Henry was almost peerless and was in his element, which, ironically, had more people question why it wasn't transferable.

Lastly, Mbappe doesn't defer to anyone; even if he had fielded with a Zidane or Platini, he would have the ego to believe he was on par (or better) than them. Henry's deferential nature to Zidane had him play as a supporting member rather than believing he could claim the centre stage. Mbappe would be vying for that centre stage, not wilting for another in it. These things are huge at the level we're talking about.

As players, Henry was at a higher technical level than Mbappe, but he wasn't more effective. Again, at the highest levels, not domestic football, where Henry's goal and assist ratios were extraordinary. Head-to-head, Henry is not getting in a France team over Mbappe because the latter is more decisive and more likely to be the player who turns the game.

To be able to say this of a 23-year old over a player who has a full body of work says a lot, too. Mbappe has played two World Cups and has looked like he is in element, twice. It's not a coincidence; he clearly has the it factor and it's injury that will curtail him, not nerves or fear of any game or opponent. Domestically, Mbappe can catch Henry, on higher levels, he has already surpassed him.

When it comes to 'ever' he's levels below Platini at the moment and will have to really turn godly to peer with him, let alone surpass him. He's also got a way to go to be as consummate as Zidane and will have to become the main man at his club(s) and country (he's certainly as important for his nation as Zidane was, but needs longevity to par him) to sit alongside him. There isn't really another French attacker he hasn't hopped over by now, so he is certainly the player who has it in him to go to the very top, if fitness and will to improve is married to sublime football from here to the end of his 20's, at least. I don't think it'd be a surprise if he ended up being the #1 should stars align for him, it's not something that's risible as he has the ability, ego and confidence to go all the way to the top.

++++

Great analysis again

 

[EtH]

Almost as ridiculous as your farmer's league comment, almost.

We're not going to find an agreement here.

Explain why Mbappe wasn’t even in the top five in Ballon d’Or voting despite the stats all of his fans constantly point to then.

 

[antk]

Explain why Mbappe wasn’t even in the top five in Ballon d’Or voting despite the stats all of his fans constantly point to then.

Do you think Sadio Mané is a better player than Mbappé? Or that Haller is a better player than Harry Kane, Nkunku or even worse Neymar?

 

[RedRonaldo]

Henry was only just starting to step up to the highest level at the same age whereas Mbappé already has a world cup under his belt. Quite remarkable really that he started so young, but has a pretty good fitness record so far and will likely keep improving. Needs to get out of PSG though.

Actually Henry had won a WC as top goalscorer for France at age 21.

 

[The holy trinity 68]

Yes.

He really wasn't.

 

[antk]

Actually Henry had won a WC as top goalscorer for France at age 21.

You must be joking if you pretend those performances have anything to do with each other.

 

[The holy trinity 68]

Surely he will eventually surpass Klose in most goals at the World Cup.

 

[EtH]

Do you think Sadio Mané is a better player than Mbappé? Or that Haller is a better player than Harry Kane, Nkunku or even worse Neymar?

On last season’s form, absolutely. Being that Mane did his thing against proper competition week in week out.

Haller wasn’t better than any of those as the voting showed. Though what ten Hag did with him was nothing short of amazing.

 

[Mainoldo]

He’s not even better than Nicolas Anelka how can he be there greatest player.

He’s a very good player for the era he is in.. but he’s basic compared to what came before him.

 

[antk]

Haller wasn’t better than any of those as the voting showed. Though what ten Hag did with him was nothing short of amazing.

Haller was 13th, Kane 21st, Nkunku 25th. What did the voting show?

 

[EtH]

Haller was 13th, Kane 21th, Nkunku 25th. What did the voting show?

Oh, I thought you were joking. Of course he was better.

 

[LouieVanGallsRedArmeh]

Eric was great for united but was never half the player Mbappe is. As for whether Mbappe is the greatest french player of all time it's too early to call but he certainly has both talent and time on his side.

He already has a world cup under his belt which he won whilst still a teenager(and he wasn't a bit part player) and even now at 23 looks to be among the current best players in world football (which Cantona never was at any stage of his career).

He is already performing at roughly the same level that Messi was at the same age so whilst the question is being asked too early, I'm not sure how anyone can say with any certainty that he won't go on to be the greatest french player ever.

I'd like to disagree.

Eric Cartona was a massive star during his peak. There were quite a few issues in French National team during the 90's as he was left out of the EURO 96 squad and as a consequence he retired early at the international level. He would quite possibly be a captain for Frane in WC 98 and lead them to championship had he not been axed from the national team by Jaquet and replaced by, you guessed it, Zidane.

Mbappe had the luck of playing in a world cup at the age of just shy of 19. France were lucky to have only played against a single top10 national team at the time, Argentina, and beating them in the last 16. They had the easiest group out of all the teams basically (Peru, Denmark, Australia) and they had teams like Uruguay, Belgium and Croatia in the playoffs. One could say it was quite possibly the easiest route to championship, EVER. Compare their run with EURO 2021, they only managed to win one game out of 4 and lost to switzerland of all nations...

I loled quite hard to the last paragraph. Messi was playing in La liga for almost his whole career. Which is without a shadow of a doubt a much tougher and challenging league than Ligue 1. Iam not saying he won't achieve the goat status of Cristiano Ronaldo or Ronaldo da lima or Pele and so forth but he has quite a few years and a loooooooong, looooong way to go to achieve that status.

 

[RedRonaldo]

You must be joking if you pretend those performances have anything to do with each other.

And your point? He did win a WC in 1998, playing 6 games out of 7, and scoring 3 goals (France top goalscorer).

 

[Andersons Dietician]

In a world where Zidane exists and is French the answer is no. He could become the best ever but for me he still has a long way to go to even be better than Thierry. Not saying he isn’t possible of that but he hasn’t reached their levels yet in my opinion.

 

[antk]

And your point? He did win a WC in 1998, playing 6 games out of 7, and scoring 3 goals (France top goalscorer).

My point being he started only two games, scoring his goals against South Africa and Saudi Arabia, while Mbappé was a starter all the way through, had the best performance of the tournament against Argentina and even scored in the final.

But I assume you already know that.

 

[Oly Francis]

Actually Henry had won a WC as top goalscorer for France at age 21.

True but overall, Henry didn't have a great world cup. 1 goal against an already defeated south africa, 2 against Saudi Arabia in the last group game, it's nowhere near what Mbappé achieved against Argentina or in the final. But still, Henry is also a world champion.

EDIT : someone beat me to it.

On last season’s form, absolutely. Being that Mane did his thing against proper competition week in week out.

Haller wasn’t better than any of those as the voting showed. Though what ten Hag did with him was nothing short of amazing.

Mate, none of your arguments make sense, you just decided to die on this hill and it's becoming more and more ridiculous.

 

[antk]

True but overall, Henry didn't have a great world cup. 1 goal against an already defeated south africa, 2 against Saudi Arabia in the last group game, it's nowhere near what Mbappé achieved against Argentina or in the final.

Small correction but Saudi Arabia was the 2nd group game

 

[Cassidy]

No

 

[EtH]

Mate, none of your arguments make sense, you just decided to die on this hill and it's becoming more and more ridiculous.

Says another PSG fan.

 

[Lee565]

I know it's not fashionable because people tend to rate attackers above defenders but I would put thuram and Platini ahead mbappe still