Is Mou still 'The Special One' for you all?

Status
Not open for further replies.

Slavkov

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Jan 30, 2011
Messages
375
Location
Plovdiv, Bulgaria
See , this is a one of game ,where mourinho has specially played this way to play and disrupt the barcelona side who holds the ball so well and creates and have creativity all over the pitch, but it only came after his 2-3 defeats against them when he defended deep and failed to beat them or dominate them, he played barcelona that day. This was a real madrid team who had all the qualities in their players in all areas. This is the way to press and disrupt the great posession based sides . bayern munich did the same , but they play against every opposition the same way who's foundations were built by lvg himself and taken forward by heynkes.
In barcelona team the source of creativity were 3 players xavi iniesta and messi in the midfeild and pressing all 3 made them to loose the ball and stifle their creativity , pressing the defenders and goal keepers do not mean pressing the source of creativity as its just meant to stopthem playing out from the back and nullify the back and side passes they make when pressed in the midfeild to keep the ball.

the source of creativity is more oftern and not are in the midfeild which when pressed makes opponents loose the ball and nulify their most attacking and goal scoring threat.

But Real madrid team never played the same style through the course of the season against all opponents. This was not their style of play for every game , nither was inter's and chelsea's. because when jose mourinho when given a job to build a side he never builds a posession based footballing side who plays on posession and controls the ball and controls the games and counter attacks. He always buys positionally great defensive players who hold the play and counter . So if mourinho directly took over from saf we would have never seen such a united side who are so dominant to win the ball back and create opportunities with the ball having maximum posession.

If jose took over from saf i could see us signing matic in the midfeild and playing on counter against all sides , in europe as well, which is where against top posession based sides that type of tactics are termed as bus parking by those sides. We never pressed high vs barcelona is 2 games in ucl finals , because the team was built that way and we were missing scholes.

Mourinho did the same against lvg's united . He never pressed high and parked the bus at home itself and knicked a goal on the counter. Because he did the rebuilding job there and he never builds a team who are proactive in nature to win the back ball and force the mistake.

Mourinho followed lvg , and this is helping him to play like this every game against every side , that's why teams can not create many chances against us.

I have read all your comments but decided to answer after the last one so basically this is an answer to all the stuff you have written and excuse me mate, no offence meant but that is the biggest piece of rubbish I have seen for a long time. Comparing LVG to Mourinho as far as style of play is concerned is like comparing an airplane to a car then saying that Jose learned his defensive tactics from LVG is like saying that I taught Pele how to kick a ball. That is pure nonsense. Jose's style of play has always been very direct dependent on a very strong defence. LVG has never been a good manager as far as defence was concerned apart from his last stunt with the national team and his United career when his defensive record was ok. I remember two of Jose vs LVG matches and Jose tactically outclassed him using very organized defenses and hitting him on the counter ( Bayern-Inter 0:2 and Chelsea-United 1:0) I have been watching United for more than 25 years but I had never seen such a dross as the last year under LVG...We could hardly manage a shot on target and if the opponent took the lead it was more or less game over. We had no idea how to score a goal. Now for me it is quite obvious that we have a plan we move quite allright and we are just some players short of being there. The team under Jose is set up totally opposite to the theam under LVG , I mean someone who has watched United under LVG and this season to say that the teams play similarly and Jose is reaping the benefits from LVG is as far from the truth as it can be in my opinion. It is insane. LVG really likes blooding youngsters for one reason or another and he will always be remembered as the manager who gave debut to Rashford but he also gave debuts to Xavi, Pujol, etc. and the Barcelona fans remember him as someone who destroyed one of their strongest teams consisting of Rivaldo, Luis Figo, etc. Anyway I have nothing against LVG, I respect him but Jose is a far better manager in my opinion, the team is playing much much better this season, I enjoy watching United and I know we are making progress and would get there. That has nothing to do with LVG, quite the opposite. He spend a huge amount of money buying squad players and cost us 3-4 years in our development. Thanks to Jose we are on the right path and we will get there.

Based on your logic and what you are saying I have to thank LVG that I woke up this morning and for the meal on the table and the air we are breathing. Sorry but this is as pathetic as it would get....
 

BigCaine

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Jul 9, 2015
Messages
487
The feck it is. That's just a lazy lazy myth.

Porto: He had won the treble it was a logical progression to go on to bigger things
Chelsea: It was in his fourth season, and need I say anything else than "Roman"?
Inter: He had won the Treble and it was logical to go on to a bigger challenge
Real: How many managers/coaches at Real have laster longer than three years during the last two decades?
Chelsea: I'll give you this one. Although it is impossible to know what was the real deal in that situation.
I will give you first 3, but at madrid he did alienate most of his team, from all accounts i have heard, perez wanted to keep mourinho but his alienating of most of his first team meant there was nothing perez could do, if i am not wrong it is madrid from where his 3 seasons and he is alienates players story started.
 

prtk0811

New Member
Joined
Nov 7, 2016
Messages
7,854
I have read all your comments but decided to answer after the last one so basically this is an answer to all the stuff you have written and excuse me mate, no offence meant but that is the biggest piece of rubbish I have seen for a long time. Comparing LVG to Mourinho as far as style of play is concerned is like comparing an airplane to a car then saying that Jose learned his defensive tactics from LVG is like saying that I taught Pele how to kick a ball. That is pure nonsense. Jose's style of play has always been very direct dependent on a very strong defence. LVG has never been a good manager as far as defence was concerned apart from his last stunt with the national team and his United career when his defensive record was ok. I remember two of Jose vs LVG matches and Jose tactically outclassed him using very organized defenses and hitting him on the counter ( Bayern-Inter 0:2 and Chelsea-United 1:0) I have been watching United for more than 25 years but I had never seen such a dross as the last year under LVG...We could hardly manage a shot on target and if the opponent took the lead it was more or less game over. We had no idea how to score a goal. Now for me it is quite obvious that we have a plan we move quite allright and we are just some players short of being there. The team under Jose is set up totally opposite to the theam under LVG , I mean someone who has watched United under LVG and this season to say that the teams play similarly and Jose is reaping the benefits from LVG is as far from the truth as it can be in my opinion. It is insane. LVG really likes blooding youngsters for one reason or another and he will always be remembered as the manager who gave debut to Rashford but he also gave debuts to Xavi, Pujol, etc. and the Barcelona fans remember him as someone who destroyed one of their strongest teams consisting of Rivaldo, Luis Figo, etc. Anyway I have nothing against LVG, I respect him but Jose is a far better manager in my opinion, the team is playing much much better this season, I enjoy watching United and I know we are making progress and would get there. That has nothing to do with LVG, quite the opposite. He spend a huge amount of money buying squad players and cost us 3-4 years in our development. Thanks to Jose we are on the right path and we will get there.

Based on your logic and what you are saying I have to thank LVG that I woke up this morning and for the meal on the table and the air we are breathing. Sorry but this is as pathetic as it would get....
:D, No one is comparing mourinho and lvg as managers, But you wont see the defensive jose mourinho bus parking sytle anytime here in united due to the foundations and principles lvg practicised for 2 years , which jose have impoved on both off and on the ball.We are a slow transition team as of now so if we ever tried to play that way it'll attract negetive headlines , which wont happen with united. everyone expected us to park the bus against chelsea.

And by the way you are totally clueless here and off the point .
 
Last edited:

SirAF

Ageist
Joined
Sep 28, 2003
Messages
37,563
Location
I will give you first 3, but at madrid he did alienate most of his team, from all accounts i have heard, perez wanted to keep mourinho but his alienating of most of his first team meant there was nothing perez could do, if i am not wrong it is madrid from where his 3 seasons and he is alienates players story started.
He wouldn't last at Real regardless of the players - Ancelotti was sacked one year after winning them their 10th CL trophy.
 

BigCaine

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Jul 9, 2015
Messages
487
He wouldn't last at Real regardless of the players - Ancelotti was sacked one year after winning them their 10th CL trophy.
But there was a big difference between mourinho leaving and ancelotti leaving, players wanted him to stay but spanish abramovich was too trigger happy to listen to them, with mourinho it was the other way around where players wanted him gone rather than perez, if i am not wrong most of madrid's sackings have been due to perez's love for sacking managers this one wasn't really his decision. Frankly i feel madrid broke the man, prior to madrid mourinho teams were absolutely ready to give everything for him, his departures were as a beloved manager for his players, post madrid his both sackings be it madrid or chelsea have been due to the players something that hadn't happened to him before.
 

Home&Away

New Member
Joined
Apr 19, 2017
Messages
1,100
Everyone seems to talk about the Chelsea game and other than individual man marking jobs; that game was far from the typical Jose tactics.

It was not only our best performance due to the individual performances of players like Herrera,Fellaini, Pogba, Rashford,Lingard- it was the only game we had where we used players in the right formation and positions. More importantly there was a clear structure to partnerships which we haven't had before or since.

Lingard played centrally and was able to coordinate with Rashford who could make runs off each other. We had 3 at the back meaning our CM's had more space.

Jose has clearly improved us but he simply would not have been able to pull off a 352 and our best formation without embracing LVG's tactics and adapting to the players that suited it. LVG is the guy who did the research on the squad but he is a poor manager.

Best performances was clearly 352 which Jose has only tried once but the team has had plenty practice in doing so. Furthermore you add a striker like Ibrahimovic in to a front 2 it does not work as he would become too much of a focal point in a formation that tries to out manoeuvre the opposition defence.

We should be playing this formation more IMO and suddenly all our players have better positions to adapt to. Martial would be a ST not LW, Lingard plays centrally as does Rashford. Valencia and Shaw becomes wing backs and our extra central defender can be either darmian to provide protection to the fullbacks or blind who can protect the CB and move the ball up from DM never mind Smalling or Jones who can add further steel.

The Ibrahimovic injury and its reaction on here wasn't surprising- we all want goals but it was clear that for 3/4 of the season Jose wasn't getting the best out of 11 players.

Jose is not the special one for me and hasn't been after Inter - he is someone who believes in himself and his tactics and would rather chop and change everything to get that through rather than playing to the teams strength. He suits teams like Porto, Inter and Chelsea where they don't have strong fundamentals and he can change everything. He is however, what we need right now because we haven't had such an imposing figure at the top since SAF and we will see the benefits of this by winning trophies. I do expect him to make some decisions that goes against the fans at some point though. That's when some peoples view on him changes. He has always caused disruption to the mental stability of a team by the time he has been sacked and I have not seen anything yet to assume that it will be different here tbh.
 

Adebesi

Full Member
Joined
Dec 6, 2006
Messages
19,159
Location
Sanctity, like a cat, abhors filth.
If we win tonight he is going to start feeling very special. The Chelsea result was great but to follow it up with a win against City would really reinforce the feeling that we have turned a corner and have the momentum to keep going till the end of the season. The impact on our confidence would be dramatic.

As always I swing wildly between states of optimism and pessimism. Although it feels like a lifetime ago, I remember under Van Gaal some of our best runs came when circumstances made them seem least likely, when we were playing other top teams and were ravaged by injuries. So there is plenty of reason to be hopeful.
 

glazed

Eats diamonds to beat thermodynamics
Joined
Sep 30, 2012
Messages
7,526
You are aware that the average tenture of a football league manager is less than 1,5 years? If Jose can stay with us for at least 3 years then we should be content with that.

Also, you talk of ego as if it is a negative, when in reality it is quite the opposite. All the greats possess a larger than life ego, it is absolutely essential to their success. You show me a highly successful football manager who lacks a huge ego and I'll show you a flying pig.
I would suggest that the current top 4 managers all display egos smaller than Jose's, although I don't know any of them personally. It's a bit hard to say from the outside looking in.

But if we're really looking to have managers that only last three years, then surely we need to restructure around a DoF to provide continuity?
 

shaky

Full Member
Joined
Jan 6, 2014
Messages
2,515
Of the 33 points we've dropped this season, 64% of them (21) were dropped in the first 14 games of the season. The last 18 games has seen us drop only 12 points. That's excellent improvement in my book. Even if we fail to reach top 4 this season, without Jose needing time to find his feet next season, I have no doubts about us being in title contention this time next year.
 

KristianMackle

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Aug 8, 2015
Messages
695
I believe that Jose will make us special as he nears the finishing stages of building a complete squad of his players.
 

Adisa

likes to take afvanadva wothowi doubt
Joined
Nov 28, 2014
Messages
50,311
Location
Birmingham
Think this is relevant here.
I am tired of soft players.
We had players complaining about seeing videos of their mistakes under Van Gaal. Ffs!
Over the past three years,we've had a team that will look for any excuse to lose games.
It's remarkable. I never wanted Mourinho here. But now, I couldn't be happier we brought him.
The mentality of the club had been destroyed.
 

fellaini's barber

New Member
Joined
Nov 27, 2014
Messages
3,655
I could say the same thing.
Last season under LVG Bailly was not here and Rojo was mostly played at left back where he was largely shite, how the feck is LVG supposed to take credit for our defense now FFS. Our defense right now is not even yet as good as the type of defenses he built at Chelsea(first stint). DDG was our player of the year in LVG's 2 seasons here yet here you are writing paragraphs upon paragraphs of nonesense about Mourinho 'following' LVG in setting up defenses. I guess LVG is responsible for Mou's Chelsea,Porto and Madrid defenses too
 

SirAF

Ageist
Joined
Sep 28, 2003
Messages
37,563
Location
Of the 33 points we've dropped this season, 64% of them (21) were dropped in the first 14 games of the season. The last 18 games has seen us drop only 12 points. That's excellent improvement in my book. Even if we fail to reach top 4 this season, without Jose needing time to find his feet next season, I have no doubts about us being in title contention this time next year.
That's a very good point.
 

prtk0811

New Member
Joined
Nov 7, 2016
Messages
7,854
Last season under LVG Bailly was not here and Rojo was mostly played at left back where he was largely shite, how the feck is LVG supposed to take credit for our defense now FFS. Our defense right now is not even yet as good as the type of defenses he built at Chelsea(first stint). DDG was our player of the year in LVG's 2 seasons here yet here you are writing paragraphs upon paragraphs of nonesense about Mourinho 'following' LVG in setting up defenses. I guess LVG is responsible for Mou's Chelsea,Porto and Madrid defenses too
I am not talking about defenders here , only defenders are not responsible for defending, But when you loose the ball how you retrive it back from the opponents before opponents fashion out a chance against you and how quickly.

There are 2 ways to it, either you scamper back to your defensive positions at the back very deep and narrow and defend the shot in a reactive way, or secondly you press the opponents right away after loosing the ball standing your ground and close the space for the opposition attacking or midfeild players with your attacking and midfeild players combining and pressing and make them loose the ball or pass it back to their keeper to negate the threat against you in a proactive way which makes it very difficult for the opponents to attack you or risk loosing the ball which sheilds the defenders and holds the play and oppositions attacking speed and creativity in attack winning the ball back itself in second line or last line of defense but very high up the pitch very far away from our goal. The second method is proactive way of defending which Posession based teams apply which lvg brought into united but never perfected , and jose 's philosophy before comming tounited was lagely the first one rather than the second one.

We tried the first one and we stated to loose games and getting exposed in the midfeild , until jose restarted the posession based game and we went 24 unbeaten the league and he perfected the short commings of lvg's style .
 

Robbie Boy

Full Member
Joined
Jun 17, 2010
Messages
27,694
Location
Dublin
They're still ahead of us with an inferior squad. It's a bit odd that the Caf already deems him a failure and a fraud and whatnot, considering they might very well finish ahead of us.
Well considering they had no European football and some had proclaimed Klopp some sort of genius that might make a title push this season, yeah it's all been a bit disappointing. I wouldn't have him here, no chance.
 

Cheesy

Bread with dipping sauce
Scout
Joined
Oct 16, 2011
Messages
36,181
Well considering they had no European football and some had proclaimed Klopp some sort of genius that might make a title push this season, yeah it's all been a bit disappointing. I wouldn't have him here, no chance.
Most Liverpool fans would've been happy with top four football this team and as it stands they've got a reasonable chance of getting that.
 

Robbie Boy

Full Member
Joined
Jun 17, 2010
Messages
27,694
Location
Dublin
Most Liverpool fans would've been happy with top four football this team and as it stands they've got a reasonable chance of getting that.
Their season has all been a-bit meh though considering how bright it looked early on.
 

Cheesy

Bread with dipping sauce
Scout
Joined
Oct 16, 2011
Messages
36,181
There season has all been a-bit meh though considering how bright it looked early on.
Perhaps...but then that could be said for us, City, Arsenal, and any team that isn't Chelsea or Spurs. Granted, some fans would've expected a title challenge but considering they've basically been an upper-midtable side in recent years with the exception of one excellent season, I'd imagine they'll be happy with a top four finish, and Klopp will be seen as having done a decent job if he delivers that.
 

prtk0811

New Member
Joined
Nov 7, 2016
Messages
7,854
Well considering they had no European football and some had proclaimed Klopp some sort of genius that might make a title push this season, yeah it's all been a bit disappointing. I wouldn't have him here, no chance.
Klopp has built a philosophy according to the strenghts of his liverpool players , and chose a style which maes them look better collectively. But he played differently in dortmund.

He is a victim now of his chosen style of play in epl against the deep defending counter attacking teams . that's why his record against top 6 is phenomenal but against bottom teams he plays into their hands as they sit back and let him have the ball, so his defenders are caught exposed in counter attacks.
 

Robbie Boy

Full Member
Joined
Jun 17, 2010
Messages
27,694
Location
Dublin
Perhaps...but then that could be said for us, City, Arsenal, and any team that isn't Chelsea or Spurs. Granted, some fans would've expected a title challenge but considering they've basically been an upper-midtable side in recent years with the exception of one excellent season, I'd imagine they'll be happy with a top four finish, and Klopp will be seen as having done a decent job if he delivers that.
I'm not too sure really. We could conceivably end the season with two trophies and we have very obviously improved as a team. If anything, Klopp has shown his deficiencies this season and his halo seems to have somewhat slipped. Considering how Liverpool started this season, I have been thoroughly underwhelmed. They have gone from title challengers to bankers for top four to chasing top 4.
 

Robbie Boy

Full Member
Joined
Jun 17, 2010
Messages
27,694
Location
Dublin
Klopp has built a philosophy according to the strenghts of his liverpool players , and chose a style which maes them look better collectively. But he played differently in dortmund.

He is a victim now of his chosen style of play in epl against the deep defending counter attacking teams . that's why his record against top 6 is phenomenal but against bottom teams he plays into their hands as they sit back and let him have the ball, so his defenders are caught exposed in counter attacks.
Yeah I would agree with this.
 

Pogue Mahone

The caf's Camus.
Joined
Feb 22, 2006
Messages
133,350
Location
"like a man in silk pyjamas shooting pigeons
I'm not too sure really. We could conceivably end the season with two trophies and we have very obviously improved as a team. If anything, Klopp has shown his deficiencies this season and his halo seems to have somewhat slipped. Considering how Liverpool started this season, I have been thoroughly underwhelmed. They have gone from title challengers to bankers for top four to chasing top 4.
If Mourinho led United in a similar campaign to what Liverpool have just gone through during Klopp's second season in charge the knives would be out, that's for damn sure. And rightfully so. A lot of our issues this season can be put down to teething problems under a new manager but season two is when you expect a new manager to deliver. No excuses.
 
Last edited:

Robbie Boy

Full Member
Joined
Jun 17, 2010
Messages
27,694
Location
Dublin
If Mourinho led United in a similar campaign to what Liverpool have just gone through during his second season in charge the knives would be out, that's for damn sure. And rightfully so. A lot of our issues this season can rightfully be put down to teething problems under a new manager but season two is when you expect a new manager to deliver. No excuses.
Yeah I agree. Klopp seems to get a free pass from a lot of people but realistically, this is pretty much his second full season and it's all been very underwhelming.
 

fellaini's barber

New Member
Joined
Nov 27, 2014
Messages
3,655
I am not talking about defenders here , only defenders are not responsible for defending, But when you loose the ball how you retrive it back from the opponents before opponents fashion out a chance against you and how quickly.

There are 2 ways to it, either you scamper back to your defensive positions at the back very deep and narrow and defend the shot in a reactive way, or secondly you press the opponents right away after loosing the ball standing your ground and close the space for the opposition attacking or midfeild players with your attacking and midfeild players combining and pressing and make them loose the ball or pass it back to their keeper to negate the threat against you in a proactive way which makes it very difficult for the opponents to attack you or risk loosing the ball which sheilds the defenders and holds the play and oppositions attacking speed and creativity in attack winning the ball back itself in second line or last line of defense but very high up the pitch very far away from our goal. The second method is proactive way of defending which Posession based teams apply which lvg brought into united but never perfected , and jose 's philosophy before comming tounited was lagely the first one rather than the second one.

We tried the first one and we stated to loose games and getting exposed in the midfeild , until jose restarted the posession based game and we went 24 unbeaten the league and he perfected the short commings of lvg's style .
So Mourinho has this style that has has won him multiple titles across 4 countries but then he takes over a 7th placed LVG led team, and is so impressed with the shit he left behind he dumps his more successful system for it
 

prtk0811

New Member
Joined
Nov 7, 2016
Messages
7,854
Ye
So Mourinho has this style that has has won him multiple titles across 4 countries but then he takes over a 7th placed LVG led team, and is so impressed with the shit he left behind he dumps his more successful system for it
Yes , we are not so resolute defensively playing that way.
 

Pearson

New Member
Joined
Mar 9, 2013
Messages
234
Manchester United have been improving a little bit last few weeks, but Jose still has a lot to do to change my idea of him.

Plus, the only special one in my world is Sir Alex Ferguson who makes United a special club.

By the way, I am coming to Salford next September. Looking forward to seeing the OT.
 

fellaini's barber

New Member
Joined
Nov 27, 2014
Messages
3,655
Ye

Yes , we are not so resolute defensively playing that way.
And were resolute last season?:lol: I don't know if you watched us last 2 years but we were pretty hopeless, we always looked like conceding against literally anybody, Danish clubs, championship clubs...there was no club I could confidently say we'd win. So if Mourinho took over from say Moyes our defence would still be mess as he wouldn't know what to do without LVG's genius.
 
Last edited:

ti vu

Full Member
Joined
Jun 16, 2015
Messages
12,799
See , this is a one of game ,where mourinho has specially played this way to play and disrupt the barcelona side who holds the ball so well and creates and have creativity all over the pitch, but it only came after his 2-3 defeats against them when he defended deep and failed to beat them or dominate them, he played barcelona that day. This was a real madrid team who had all the qualities in their players in all areas. This is the way to press and disrupt the great posession based sides . bayern munich did the same , but they play against every opposition the same way who's foundations were built by lvg himself and taken forward by heynkes.
In barcelona team the source of creativity were 3 players xavi iniesta and messi in the midfeild and pressing all 3 made them to loose the ball and stifle their creativity , pressing the defenders and goal keepers do not mean pressing the source of creativity as its just meant to stopthem playing out from the back and nullify the back and side passes they make when pressed in the midfeild to keep the ball.

the source of creativity is more oftern and not are in the midfeild which when pressed makes opponents loose the ball and nulify their most attacking and goal scoring threat.

But Real madrid team never played the same style through the course of the season against all opponents. This was not their style of play for every game , nither was inter's and chelsea's. because when jose mourinho when given a job to build a side he never builds a posession based footballing side who plays on posession and controls the ball and controls the games and counter attacks. He always buys positionally great defensive players who hold the play and counter . So if mourinho directly took over from saf we would have never seen such a united side who are so dominant to win the ball back and create opportunities with the ball having maximum posession.

If jose took over from saf i could see us signing matic in the midfeild and playing on counter against all sides , in europe as well, which is where against top posession based sides that type of tactics are termed as bus parking by those sides. We never pressed high vs barcelona is 2 games in ucl finals , because the team was built that way and we were missing scholes.

Mourinho did the same against lvg's united . He never pressed high and parked the bus at home itself and knicked a goal on the counter. Because he did the rebuilding job there and he never builds a team who are proactive in nature to win the back ball and force the mistake.

Mourinho followed lvg , and this is helping him to play like this every game against every side , that's why teams can not create many chances against us. I am not saying that playing deep and counter attack is bus parking , but that's they way its been potrayed by pep and other posession based lawyers , so until they are in this league is better to answer them and hit back playing the attacking way , which lvg certainly played a part on building the foundations on
Nonsense. Even the 0-5 loss Mourinho did try to play pressing. He didn't drop just because he lost this game heavily. It's not the only game, not against this one opponent.

Porto when they won the UEFA Cup. Again not the only game. Nothing to do with somebody else doing the groundwork. Aggressive pressing. It's not the only game. They're a pressing team vs teams not way over their league.


Your example is bad. Bayern focus dropping into their own half & started their pressing when the ball enter their half. Mourinho tried full pitch pressing vs Barcelona, even pressing Valdez. And again Heyknes did a great job tweaking the team, motivate the players to do the work. Robben didn't work as hard & impossible to ask him play a pressing prior to Heynckes. LVG built up the passing positioning, but Heynckes cut a lot of bs overplaying passing & allow counter attacking for this Bayern team rather than the same old recycling possession get into position.

Again nonsense with Barcelona's creativity source is only Iniesta Xavi & Messi, especially when they bought Cesc, Alexis Sanchez later. The philosophy of Barcelona is to have everything chip in a bit. Pique is great ball playing. Busquet in form can be unplayable. Leave these players free. They can supply straight to the attacker without going through to Xavi & Iniesta. Yes Iniesta Xavi Messi are the main architect of their play but not the only source of creativity.

Don't use not playing same style vs all opponents to beat Mourinho team. He's adaptationist his style to opposition, to his players/ players' form. We don't play the same vs Tottenham as we did with Chelsea. We didn't play the same vs L'pool as we did with Arsenal. Of course not the same between lesser team too. However, the fundamental in the play is same: fast transition to get the ball to opposition half as soon as possible & limit passing between defender GK & midfield which leading to being pinned down & under tremendous pressure. LVG's philosophy is to recycling possession after retaining it (retain possession can be by the mean of bad shot by opposition, nothing to do with how great LVG team at ball winning through pressing).

Watch Mourinho's Porto more so you can stop spouting nonsense and learn that Mourinho doesn't full control over Chelsea, Inter, Real Madrid transfer. And the demand for immediate result. So he built what he does best first as foundation and push to do it: defensive work & quick transitioning. It's a myth that Real Madrid, his Chelsea second stint lack possession & sole counter attack in majority of their games. Mourinho never reached a the stage of evolution due to the demand at the previous club. The first sign of not working, and he's under pressure, so switch back to initial plan. Here there is more patience for building & evolving. Mourinho is willing to adapt. He's trying to adapt to how United want to play, not continuing & tweaking the LVG foundation. It's LVG who is rigid & unchangeable with one style

BS. The first CL final vs Barcelona we tried to press, but ended up shadow chasing, and got our pocket (of space) picked by Barcelona. No we ain't playing bad vs Barcelona because we missed Scholes. Scholes was fit to play, but SAF prefer other players at the time. Fletcher 's red vs Arsenal was a big miss in the first final. Barcelona was simply better team.

Mourinho was chasing Pogba for Chelsea even in the first season on his second stint. You work on speculation if you think he's just automatically buy Matic. Whoever thought Cesc would join Mourinho at Chelsea back then with all Spanish hatre narrative. Apilicuetta was rated highly by Mourinho. So let's not go further there.
 

ti vu

Full Member
Joined
Jun 16, 2015
Messages
12,799
Klopp has built a philosophy according to the strenghts of his liverpool players , and chose a style which maes them look better collectively. But he played differently in dortmund.

He is a victim now of his chosen style of play in epl against the deep defending counter attacking teams . that's why his record against top 6 is phenomenal but against bottom teams he plays into their hands as they sit back and let him have the ball, so his defenders are caught exposed in counter attacks.
Again total nonsense. Klopp is not adapting. Same old asking his player to do gengen pressing. While he has more possession now than in Bundesliga? Because PL teams don't play pressing that much. They don't need to since they're more pragmatic but still deadly in set piece & counter attacking. Over the course of the season, Klopp does his player in with his style with the players run too much and take toll on their fitness. It's been predicted by quite many on L'pool second half of the season. When he came up against possession based team, his L'pool has exact same blue print as his Dortmund.
 
Last edited:

Amar__

Geriatric lover and empath
Joined
Sep 2, 2010
Messages
24,002
Location
Sarajevo
Supports
MK Dons
We had many games under Fergie where we played ultra defensive, but still always aimed to score a goal, but I am not sure we ever had a game like tinight where we literally don't want to score, or simply don't care about starting the attack. Really low.
 

Rado_N

Yaaas Broncos!
Joined
Apr 6, 2009
Messages
110,908
Location
Manchester
We had many games under Fergie where we played ultra defensive, but still always aimed to score a goal, but I am not sure we ever had a game like tinight where we literally don't want to score, or simply don't care about starting the attack. Really low.
I don't think the tactics have been too bad, it's the execution that's been awful.

We had a number of opportunities to break and feed Rashford through but fecked it up.
 

Amar__

Geriatric lover and empath
Joined
Sep 2, 2010
Messages
24,002
Location
Sarajevo
Supports
MK Dons
I don't think the tactics have been too bad, it's the execution that's been awful.

We had a number of opportunities to break and feed Rashford through but fecked it up.
I think majority of these opportunities we fecked up is because players are told just to play it quickly and not risk anything. I don't think Mourinho would mind if we kicked every ball we won immediately to throw in near their goal out line. I mean, he literally applauded one situation like that about half an hour ago.
 

Home&Away

New Member
Joined
Apr 19, 2017
Messages
1,100
We will win things under Jose and all but as someone who likes tactical football - I genuinely dislike his. so unilateral and so predictable.
 

DWelbz19

Correctly predicted Portugal to win Euro 2016
Joined
Oct 31, 2012
Messages
33,745
I don't think the tactics have been too bad, it's the execution that's been awful.

We had a number of opportunities to break and feed Rashford through but fecked it up.
In the first half, there were definitely a few. I think the tactic of the second half was entirely to just stop them scoring rather than attacking on the break.
 

3KDré

Full Member
Joined
Feb 24, 2015
Messages
6,575
The tactics were OK for sure but for a good counter you need a mobile midfield that can quickly play a pass to the forwards. The front 3 had no service whatsoever today and Fellaini and Carrick as part of the midfield 3 is just far too immobile.
 

Blind

Full Member
Joined
Feb 28, 2017
Messages
1,322
I don't think the tactics tonight were much more than sit deep and boot it up the pitch, giving Jose far too much credit if it was some sort of master plan to keep City quiet and break quickly.
 

R'hllor

Full Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2013
Messages
15,414
Now he is the special coward thats for sure.What on earth happened with old JM where he defended properly and played counter attacking football with purpose. What kind of shit tonight this was?! You hoof 1st ball even when you intercept their attack...never seen anything like it for full 90 min.
 

dannyrhinos89

OMG socks and sandals lol!
Joined
Nov 24, 2013
Messages
14,384
Maybe when he's brought in a few more of his own players in the summer we will see the whole package.

The basics are there to see but we lack the quality to achieve it. I'm still fully behind him to deliver success as I always was.
 

RORY65

Full Member
Joined
May 28, 2009
Messages
4,452
I'm sure people will say that we played like that under Ferguson but I can never remember us being that negative, the second half was dreadful to watch. Not that I'm going to slag Mourinho too much for that mindset, we knew that is would be the case on occasions when we appointed him.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.