Is not signing a left back going to cost us the league?

[Lennon7]

Well you really sound reasonable...

He's defensively sound and the numbers back that up (makes significantly more interceptions per match than other 'top six' full backs) which is why he's highly rated, whether you value it or not (that's frankly irrelevant).

His passing is good too by the way, high completion rate and total forward passes comparable to most. Doesn't fit your picture at all.

I agree his crossing has been wank so far. I'll care more if it continues that way (traditionally his crossing is good). Also when Valencia is having similar problems on his side I'm not willing to pick on 'the left back' like that's the main problem. I think both full back positions deserve an upgrade for the future but that doesn't mean Valencia and Blind are shite.

I don't believe he's shite, I just don't believe he's good enough. I think the most effective full backs are ones that get up and down the pitch, providing overlaps for the wingers and being quick enough to get back and defend, like Valencia on his day. Obviously the top full backs are great at crossing, tackling, passing but fundementally, for me, they need to be able to do what I said above. Blind can't effectively, so his passing and interception stats aren't as important to me.

I'd like to see Shaw play when fit, but if he's not up to it yet (still) then sure, I'd be alright with Blind. He's certainly better than Darmian. Maybe Rojo will get a few games there?

 

[Bobski]

I don't believe he's shite, I just don't believe he's good enough. I think the most effective full backs are ones that get up and down the pitch, providing overlaps for the wingers and being quick enough to get back and defend, like Valencia on his day. Obviously the top full backs are great at crossing, tackling, passing but fundementally, for me, they need to be able to do what I said above. Blind can't effectively, so his passing and interception stats aren't as important to me.

I'd like to see Shaw play when fit, but if he's not up to it yet (still) then sure, I'd be alright with Blind. He's certainly better than Darmian. Maybe Rojo will get a few games there?

I really hope not, he has been dreadful in that role for Utd, a different player at CB. Lack of natural width is a weakness for Utd with the current squad, the transfer focus has, understandably, been on improving the spine. Next phase should be wide areas, an heir to Valencia and certainty at LB. Shaw becoming what we hoped would be a real boon.

 

[UnrelatedPsuedo]

Nobody has suggested that but Valencia doesnt play LB does he nor does Shaw play RB.

Someone suggesting that we need to buy a right back because we have Shaw at left back is all but saying exactly that in my opinion.

 

[tekkers3]

There are plenty of options in the fullback areas and it is simply because Shaw and Rojo are coming back from injury that the position is being highlighted. Once they come back, we will have sufficient, quality options. Darmian is good, solid defensively and versatile. He starts for Italy, so cant be as bad as most of you make out. And when the left winger doesn't hold the width, it is not his fault. He might be able to help the situation but it is the wingers fault primarily.

If United were to have bought someone, it would have made for troubled times when all of Blind, Rojo, Shaw and the new signing were all fit. Relax and understand that we are one genuine, width keeping left winger and one young deep lying midfielder away from a very, very good squad. In the meantime, we have Carrick and a number of players who can fill the role, but are simply different types of players (Mata, Martial, Rashford, Young)

 

[meninred]

I don't blame Mouriniho for not buying left back while we have four already. If all are not good he probably has to sell at least two of them before buying.

 

[Ramshock]

Someone suggesting that we need to buy a right back because we have Shaw at left back is all but saying exactly that in my opinion.

No not at all. I dont give up on players as easy as most do. Shaw if he can stay fit and healthy is quality. Valencia whilst still a supreme athlete is limited in attack.

 

[poacher]

I don't blame Mouriniho for not buying left back while we have four already. If all are not good he probably has to sell at least two of them before buying.

We don't have 4 left backs. We have a never fit Luke Shaw and the rest are players that are filling in temporarily. Ashley Young is a winger and Darmain is a right back and Rojo is a center back. No top team has fill in players fill in for two years in the hope that the starter who wasn't that good, to begin with, will recover. We didn't even need to break the bank Ricardo Rodriguez went for 15m and Jose Gaya would be pretty cheap and Faouzi Ghoulam contract is expiring so also cheap. Manchester United is supposedly the richest club in the world yet we only brought 3 players during the transfer window when we could have done with another LB, RB, LW, RW. We have nothing going on down the flanks. Mourinho is not an idiot he realises the deficiencies however he needs a bigger budget. If we go for younger players we spend more now and cut down on future spending when we have a complete squad.

 

[Sereques]

Today's game against Stoke was just another reminder we are severely lacking in the left back position. Darmian is ok defensively the majority of the time but is woeful going forward. We have so much space on the left side for an attacking full back to exploit but the likes of Darmian and to a lesser extend Blind aren't capable of doing it. Blind does a decent job there and I would stick with him for now but we really have missed a trick not signing a better left back.

Let's hope Shaw can get back to full fitness but if not I would actually like to see Young given a run of games there. Pretty sure he would do a better job there than what we have seen from the others so far.

We came back from that goal and then took the lead, what about the CB that fecked up and threw 3 points away, will he cost us the league as well?

 

[antohan]

We lost the league on August 31st, why bother playing the season out? Game over.

Can we also have a "Is not having a defence going to cost us the league?" thread for City and Liverpool? Or is that only a thing when they lose as well?

 

[Eli Zee]

signing a left back doesn't guarantee us the league... so who knows. all hypothetical.

 

[tekkers3]

We don't have 4 left backs. We have a never fit Luke Shaw and the rest are players that are filling in temporarily. Ashley Young is a winger and Darmain is a right back and Rojo is a center back. No top team has fill in players fill in for two years in the hope that the starter who wasn't that good, to begin with, will recover. We didn't even need to break the bank Ricardo Rodriguez went for 15m and Jose Gaya would be pretty cheap and Faouzi Ghoulam contract is expiring so also cheap. Manchester United is supposedly the richest club in the world yet we only brought 3 players during the transfer window when we could have done with another LB, RB, LW, RW. We have nothing going on down the flanks. Mourinho is not an idiot he realises the deficiencies however he needs a bigger budget. If we go for younger players we spend more now and cut down on future spending when we have a complete squad.

You could even debate that we have five left backs - Blind, Shaw, Rojo, Darmian and Young (the last two play both sides).
All have done good jobs at times when they have been required.

Not sure what you are meaning about the fill in players, but the top clubs generally have a top LB and a back up, along with someone else to play there. I can think of many examples.

United even has the luxury of having two very good LBs and multiple decent back ups. Rodriguez would never be as cheap for us, as soon as United are interested, clubs demand more, because they know United have more. Gaya also would definitely not be cheap. Adding another LB to the squad would be pointless as only one of Shaw, Blind or the new one could play each game. As would adding to the other positions you mention.

Lets look at the squad - from United's 25 man squad, only Johnstone and Wilson could be said to be reserve players. Plus Rashford from the Under21s and you have the 24 man squad.
In my mind, the 24 man squad is very very well balanced, as there are 2 GKs, 5 CBs, 5 FBs, 5 CMs, 4 AMs/WGs and 3 STs. Thats not even considering versatility.
Each position has two decent players who could play there. Yes, maybe you can upgrade on players like Young and Carrick, but you need a balance within a squad and both have decent experience.

I am not sure how you think that United does not have a big enough budget. For United, as long as their maximum valuation of the player is less than what the selling club values them at, they can buy, as they have no issues financially (apart from interest costs, but thats a whole separate issue). To Everton, Lukaku was worth about 60mil, and this was below or equal to what United value him. To PSG, Neymar was worth at least the 223mil they paid for him.

 

[Welbeckham]

I think Blind is our best option currently but he only does the job.

Darmian is a dreadful footballer, both defensively and offensively inferior to likes of Azpilicueta who is a similar player type.

Shaw has not developed one bit since he was 18, apart from lacking fitness, he lacks football intelligence and his offensive contribution is very limited.

Mitchell would be a bold choice, not something I expect from Mourinho though.

When none of these are not exactly in favor, I find it curious that we weren't active in the market. Mendy or Ghoulam would have done wonders to this team.

 

[settembrini]

United don't have one 'very good' left back, let alone two.

Many of the left backs at our domestic rivals e.g. Mendy, Alonso, Kolasinac, Rose would walk into our team without breaking a sweat. And there are better players out there like Marcelo and Sandro. Bayern have Alaba, Milan have Rodriguez... it's actually pretty difficult to look at the left backs at big clubs and not see one who is clearly superior to our motley collection.

 

[Infra-red]

I think Blind is our best option currently but he only does the job.

Darmian is a dreadful footballer, both defensively and offensively inferior to likes of Azpilicueta who is a similar player type.

Shaw has not developed one bit since he was 18, apart from lacking fitness, he lacks football intelligence and his offensive contribution is very limited.

Mitchell would be a bold choice, not something I expect from Mourinho though.

When none of these are not exactly in favor, I find it curious that we weren't active in the market. Mendy or Ghoulam would have done wonders to this team.

I assume Shaw's injury saved him from getting the chop this summer, and consequencently the club were unwilling to invest heavily in the position. If his career is still a shambles come January, I suppose we might flog him and get someone in.

 

[Bestietom]

No I do not believe that a LB will be our downfall this season, I would be more worried about the right hand side.

Shaw will come back soon and make the LB position his own..He will want to go to world cup with England more than ever, and will perform to a standard that will make Southgate sit up and take notice...I have no doubt of this..

We need a specialist RB who can cross a ball properly, and compete with Valencia for this position...Valencia is a big strong lad but this does not make him a top full back like he is built up to be....He has his faults and has been caught out lately..

 

[tekkers3]

United don't have one 'very good' left back, let alone two.

Many of the left backs at our domestic rivals e.g. Mendy, Alonso, Kolasinac, Rose would walk into our team without breaking a sweat. And there are better players out there like Marcelo and Sandro. Bayern have Alaba, Milan have Rodriguez... it's actually pretty difficult to look at the left backs at big clubs and not see one who is clearly superior to our motley collection.

According to you, high reputation and transfer price means you are a top player, and ones who do their job effectively and consistently are not.

I am struggling to see why Shaw has been deemed to be poor. In the times when he has been fit, he has been good. And it is not easy to come back from a horrific injury, but he is young and seems to fit the United ethos well.

Sometimes, having 11 of the worlds best players, doesnt make the worlds best team.

 

[poacher]

According to you, high reputation and transfer price means you are a top player, and ones who do their job effectively and consistently are not.

I am struggling to see why Shaw has been deemed to be poor. In the times when he has been fit, he has been good. And it is not easy to come back from a horrific injury, but he is young and seems to fit the United ethos well.

Sometimes, having 11 of the worlds best players, doesnt make the worlds best team.

The problem with Shaw is he is never fit. He's injured for two years straight. How long do we wait for him to come right?
I don't have a problem waiting for him to come right if we had a decent left back to fill in but we don't, instead we have an assortment of out of position characters filling in. It's like we have no knives but instead of getting a knife we make do with forks and spoons. 3 spoons don't make a knife no matter how much we pretend. Darmain = spoon, Rojo = spoon, Ashley Young = Fork. Just buy a knife any old knife will do as long as it is a knife!

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

Not a chance

 

[NJM78]

The problem with Shaw is he is never fit. He's injured for two years straight. How long do we wait for him to come right?
I don't have a problem waiting for him to come right if we had a decent left back to fill in but we don't, instead we have an assortment of out of position characters filling in. It's like we have no knives but instead of getting a knife we make do with forks and spoons. 3 spoons don't make a knife no matter how much we pretend. Darmain = spoon, Rojo = spoon, Ashley Young = Fork. Just buy a knife any old knife will do as long as it is a knife!

Try telling that to Mick Dundee.

 

[settembrini]

According to you, high reputation and transfer price means you are a top player, and ones who do their job effectively and consistently are not.

I am struggling to see why Shaw has been deemed to be poor. In the times when he has been fit, he has been good. And it is not easy to come back from a horrific injury, but he is young and seems to fit the United ethos well.

Consistently playing well makes someone a 'top player'. All the player I named do that and it's impossible to say the same about our left back options. They all produce average to bad performances, get dropped, then get chances later when the other options fail to impress. Left back was the worst scoring position by redcafe player ratings last season and it was arguably these players which Mourinho was most critical of publicly such as when he derided Shaw's positional understanding or called Rojo a 'bad' left back.

Shaw has had one good month of form for United in over three seasons. The two managers he has played under for us have both been publicly critical of him (first with Van Gaal and his fitness and then with Mourinho and his actual footballing ability). He ended the season as our fourth choice left back and there is no reason to think that situation has changed. If these are the standards you have for a player to be deemed 'good' and fitting the United ethos then I see little point in continuing this discussion.

 

[fellaini's barber]

I don't know about costing us the league but I've felt our left and right fullback options for the past few seasons have been laughable to say the least. Valencia plays every game for us, gets about 20 opportunities to put in a good cross, might maybe get 1 right which many people on here seem content with. And this has been going on for years, the club/managers are all pretty content with defenders who just defend. Darmian and Blind are not even very good defenders and worse attackers but will be our options throughout the season. I don't remember anything about Luke Shaw if he's good or not. Yet people seem pretty content like 'Darmian was not at fault for the goals', its baffling. The poor attacking fullbacks are what makes our football so basic and when we play a team like Stoke who put everyone behind the ball then we look lost like most of last season. We just pass the ball around, get it to Valencia, cross, rinse,repeat, seasons on end. Only chance of something different happening is from Mikhi and Pogba and when those two can't come up with something we're fecked till Fellaini comes on and we can start hoofing.

There is a reason the likes of Chelsea and City manage to steal wins from really tough games despite looking average throughout. All it takes is one great run or cross from Moses,Alonso or Mendy and bam!,game over. But for us our attacking and goal scoring is fully on our attackers, an attack consisting of young inconsistent wingers and midfielders so when they don't produce, its trouble. This season we will beat the shite teams, struggle against the top teams and not be able to break down teams who set up to defend, just like last season. The most frustrating thing about this is seeing teams with better options than ours still buying fullbacks while we didn't seem interested in strengthening that position at all

 

[Ikon]

With the exception of Bailly, I don't particularly rate any of our senior defenders very highly.
I think they are all quite mediocre, and I think any or all of them are expendable, as there are certainly much better players out there.

Tuanzebe looks to be an exceptional talent to me, and I think in time he and Bailly could be a tremendous partnership in the centre.

We have a converted winger shoehorned into RB, but in fairness, Valencia has done a commendable job.
He isn't getting any younger though, and doesn't have a credible understudy.

LB is a real problem area, with the only recognized LB being Shaw.
Now in his 4th season here but has only appeared in 32 Premier League games in that time...!
It really surprised me that we didn't seem to be interested in bringing in new FBs on either side, and I do think that will bite us in the arse as the season progresses.

 

[SwSw]

I honestly don't understand why people think Perisic is the answer just because he can cross a ball. Surely someone who can do that from the right is far more needed. Clearly Martial and Rashford are way better on the left, so signing Perisic would only mean they get left out.

I know HM and Mata come inside leaving space for Valencia, but surely having someone with proper width would leave more room for the midfield to find space. Teams defend so narrow against us because they know we'll hit it out for Valencia to deliver a terrible cross.

If we could get someone on the right who can cross like how Perisic does it, i'm all good. I wasn't implying our only option was Perisic. I felt we should have got the man because Jose wanted him for reasons that are pretty clear now.

 

[sunama]

I assume Shaw's injury saved him from getting the chop this summer, and consequencently the club were unwilling to invest heavily in the position. If his career is still a shambles come January, I suppose we might flog him and get someone in.

The problem we have with Shaw is that will anybody be prepared to pay money for him, due to his fitness?
We might be able to get him out on loan, with an option to buy, but getting any money for him, could be tricky, which is why it might be better to hang on to him. Same goes for Jones (you can't sell him, due to the injury record, so may as well hang on to him).

 

[BringNaniBack]

As I said when making this thread I would like to see Young given a chance at left back. He did a good job at right back tonight as he always does when given the opportunity to play as full back on either side. Jose is missing a trick if he doesn't start using Young as a full back more regularly IMO.

 

[Cheesy]

As I said when making this thread I would like to see Young given a chance at left back. He did a good job at right back tonight as he always does when given the opportunity to play as full back on either side. Jose is missing a trick if he doesn't start using Young as a full back more regularly IMO.

Could be worth a shout. He's obviously not a long-term solution but has generally been decent and reliable in recent times whenever we've used him at full-back.

 

[Minimalist]

As I said when making this thread I would like to see Young given a chance at left back. He did a good job at right back tonight as he always does when given the opportunity to play as full back on either side. Jose is missing a trick if he doesn't start using Young as a full back more regularly IMO.

I know because Blind was shite again tonight wasn't he?

 

[BringNaniBack]

I know because Blind was shite again tonight wasn't he?

Did I say Blind was shite? No.

 

[Minimalist]

Did I say Blind was shite? No.

You watched Young play right back tonight and then proposed (for some weird reason) we use him at left back. It would suggest you don't rate the lad playing there tonight.

 

[Castia]

As I said when making this thread I would like to see Young given a chance at left back. He did a good job at right back tonight as he always does when given the opportunity to play as full back on either side. Jose is missing a trick if he doesn't start using Young as a full back more regularly IMO.

I'd play him LB in the home games where teams come to defend and sit deep.

I wouldn't fancy him against a quality winger though.

 

[BringNaniBack]

You watched Young play right back tonight and then proposed (for some weird reason) we use him at left back. It would suggest you don't rate the lad playing there tonight.

Go and read what I said when I created this thread. I even said i'd stick with Blind there. But yes in certain games I would play Young at left back.

 

[tekkers3]

The logic on here is outstanding.

Managers criticise a lot of players to get more out of them. When Jose criticised Martial and Mkhitaryan, does that mean they are not good players either?

Shaw is 22yo and has had two big injuries in the past 2 seasons. He has potential to be a top LB and United gives youth a chance. We dont just go out and buy current world class players in every position, because squads need balance. Refer to Manchester City a few seasons back, where they had many top players, but then in a few seasons they are all 31/32yo and you have to start all again.

Currently, Blind is doing a more than decent job and has done it consistently in recent times so United will have no issues there and once Shaw regains fitness and works his way back in, there is no reason why he cannot become the first choice LB.

As I had said before, with Darmian, Young, Valencia, Blind, Rojo and Shaw - we have more than enough players to fill the fullback areas with good players.

 

[roseguy64]

Compare that to City's options. It's really not good at all.

How many fullbacks do City have?

 

[roseguy64]

The problem with Shaw is he is never fit. He's injured for two years straight. How long do we wait for him to come right?
I don't have a problem waiting for him to come right if we had a decent left back to fill in but we don't, instead we have an assortment of out of position characters filling in. It's like we have no knives but instead of getting a knife we make do with forks and spoons. 3 spoons don't make a knife no matter how much we pretend. Darmain = spoon, Rojo = spoon, Ashley Young = Fork. Just buy a knife any old knife will do as long as it is a knife!

It's understandable why he's been injured for 2 years though. He had a horrible injury that kept him out for an entire season. Then he came back and got multiple injuries due to that one injury. We've seen it happen before to multiple players throughout football. It's not a shock. Anyone expecting Shaw to have not been injured last season was going on hope

 

[JMack1234]

In my opinion our team has two glaring weaknesses. One is LB and one is RW. If you think of our options at LB we've got Blind, who I like a lot but I don't think he's got the pace or physical attributes to make a solid premier league defender I can actually imagine him moving to Spain in a few years and being seen as a revelation. Then Darmian whose a very good defender but offers next to nothing going forward. Finally there's Shaw who despite being at the club the length of time he has is almost a unknown quantity I don't think Mourinho likes him on any level and I think he's in last chance saloon with Jose.

 

[tekkers3]

Interesting to see that nothing has been said in here after the game today - Young was great, Blind was good midweek, so no issues to see here. Shaw to return also. Good problems of who to play, if they are all playing well

 

[Womp]

Interesting to see that nothing has been said in here after the game today - Young was great, Blind was good midweek, so no issues to see here. Shaw to return also. Good problems of who to play, if they are all playing well

The majority who think we need a LB most likely still think so. There's just really no point coming in after every game saying as much, especially when nothing can be done about it now.

Not to add - we won the game, which usually makes this place bearable.

 

[Blind]

Young was alright, if Everton had any pace or craft on the right he would have been caught out a few times with his dodgy positioning. It's still a problem position with no real solution, hopefully Shaw will get a run out on Wednesday.

 

[Icemav]

Young was alright, if Everton had any pace or craft on the right he would have been caught out a few times with his dodgy positioning. It's still a problem position with no real solution, hopefully Shaw will get a run out on Wednesday.

I agree his positioning was a bit dodgy, also appears to be far more effective in attack when played on the right. He is right footed and can bend in nice crosses. Fron thr left he is always forced inside and found little joy today.

Valencia again didnt provide much opportunity from the rigth, aside from the wonder goal.

 

[gza the genius]

I thought Young was pretty poor today. Most of their attacking came from Martina or whoever it was on their right.