I’d take a 4th 0-0We played out 6 nil nil draws this season with 10 games to go and some are still saying that Ole ball is better than LvG or José
The most nil nil draws we had recently were 3 under LvG in 2015
Deluded
Is Ole’s football really any better than José & LVG’s?
- Thread starter Schmeichel's Cartwheel
- Start date
City will find a way through us on SundayI’d take a 4th 0-0
Van Gaal's transfers (incoming and outgoing) were horrific, don't get me wrong.
But at least he had a style of play and was tactically sound.
Agree. Fans have short memory. It wasn't that long ago that we were playing fluid, attacking football. Its not possible for our present squad to do so against every team. Injuries aside, there is always the question of the quality of the opponents that the team is facing. I know the performance vs Palace was dire, but it could be that the team has given up chasing Man City and is not motivated to try. You can lay blame on Ole for not being to motivate the team enough, but IMO its more about the character of our players. Bar Bruno and maybe a few others, everyone else lacks the believe that the team is capable of winning trophies. Its more a job for these and Ole will need to do more to weed them out to replace them with more Bruno clones.
Have never heard that one before
Through Rosey and Jim eyes innit, means "childish". Not to be confused with rosy-eyed.Have never heard that one before
I can only speak from my viewing experience. This current side is much better to watch than LVG United side.
yes we run faster with players like Rashford and James and Fred running like a mad man in midfield. LVG was boring as heck in the final part of the season. Unless Ole wins a trophy, No. LVG's biggest mistake was he tried to play what he thought was the United way. He should have got rid of Giggs and bought in his own assistant and did what he did at Ajax.
No it is worse.
But you can't compare Ole to two great managers.
But you can't compare Ole to two great managers.
It really isn't any better although that can be subjective and in terms of results it hasn't improved much at all. Although to be fair the football quality hasn't been that great even in the last seasons under SAF; but to his credit he had a team of winners so there was something exciting about watching a team with a strong mentality capable of pulling a comeback despite being outplayed.
There's also the fact Mourinho and LVG had different styles and with Ole I'm not pretty sure what is his preferred approach but now it's turning to be something more timid.
There's also the fact Mourinho and LVG had different styles and with Ole I'm not pretty sure what is his preferred approach but now it's turning to be something more timid.
I feel our football has been more or less the same with every manager post Ferguson.
Uninspiring, slow, predictable. I expected it with every manager we appointed with the exception of Van Gaal so with our next coach I’m hoping we appoint someone with more tactical nous but I fully expect us to appoint someone like Allegri.
Uninspiring, slow, predictable. I expected it with every manager we appointed with the exception of Van Gaal so with our next coach I’m hoping we appoint someone with more tactical nous but I fully expect us to appoint someone like Allegri.
But at the start of the season Di Maria was doing well and after the Leicester game Van Gaal changed everything, no ?
I agree though, a big problem was that the board put everything into Di Maria suceeding and overlooked other alternatives.
Was it actually necessary to sack Van Gaal after the Fa Cup win though ? It was not like Mourinho had this great brand of attacking football we could look forward to.
Jose was signed to deliver titles, but Van Gaal had just delivered a title...
I think it was right to move away from him but, yeah, what a strange hire in Mou. I loved LVG but he was just too rigid in his philosophy, we'd play the balls into good areas but it was like you weren't allowed to shoot and we'd just recycle it. Rooney did say the players were really starting to understand his tactics by the end and a third season would have been different but ti all comes down to recruitment and he was really let down when you read the stories about how bad the scouting team was when he arrived.
Well, he did say he was disappointed with the scouts. I think he gave them a bunch of targets and they couldn't sign anyone...
I think Mourinho was signed under the idea that he was fully motivated to coach United. That this was the job he always dreamed of. But he never looked like he really wanted to be here.
Agree. LVG's problem was his transfer. Although a few fans were complaining about his dull style, so was Pep's. he simply got the wrong players in, end up asking existing players to implement his style, double fault.
Mourinho's problem was players' management, and not able to get more than a few to be loyal followers. But his tactics and preparation was second to none.
Ole has no tactics, hardly any coaching for players - Greenwood and James, 2 seasons down the road, still play on their own. His only goodness was that he never blame players, no matter how obviously poor they are. He just blame the ref.
It’s miles better, especially intent. The problem comes in execution of the finer things, which is down to both players and management.
But the initial question is ridiculous
But the initial question is ridiculous
It was. Think fundamentally it is but need that extra spark in midfield and upfront / right wing still. Rashford needs competition somehow as well
even I was saying sack him because I was so disappointed in him. But even at the beginning when he was signed I said that it was a huge mistake to force Giggs on him as his assistant. No matter what anyone says their styles are miles apart. Dutch and especially Ajax do not play that way. LVG trying to make everyone happy was one of the biggest reasons he failed and also the scouting. They never seem to understand his style of play. He always had a play maker and Rooney was never going to be that player. I think Rashford would have developed into someone much better if LVG had not been sacked. He gets them to play football. Yes he is rigid but his Ajax side was not rigid though some players kept to their positions. He would get Overmars and George to keep the width but let other players roam. Blind usually joined the attack during open play. Yes it helps when you have Rijkard and Litmanen in your side. I feel that United had already decided to sack LVG no matter what.
it is, more dynamic, but that's not saying much. You'd have to be literally trying to hold a team back to play any worse than those two as that was what they both did. One insisted on rigid possession and the other actively tried to make games grindfests.
With Mourinho we were naive at the time. Just as with Spurs fans last season we had convinced ourselves he would play attacking football here and it was really just his old environment that made him the way he was (both on and off the pitch). No one ever knows how freaking awful his football is till they see it at their club. It's not an exaggeration to say he actively sets his teams up to win ugly but his new clubs always think it's just hyperbole
We are seeing transition football. The next 15 games will tell us whether its LvG/Jose lite or a new era. As much as im thinking positively i think we are just seeing a caretaker steady the ship.
Signings are good, squad is more harmonious but the inconsistency is still there and Ole dosnt inspire confidence in moving us up. He has done a great job steadying us but he has ran out of road. If he left today id have nothing but admiration for what he has done.
Lvg and Jose were unmitigated disasters in terms of what we are/were about. No matter what we are in a better position than we were under Jose.
Signings are good, squad is more harmonious but the inconsistency is still there and Ole dosnt inspire confidence in moving us up. He has done a great job steadying us but he has ran out of road. If he left today id have nothing but admiration for what he has done.
Lvg and Jose were unmitigated disasters in terms of what we are/were about. No matter what we are in a better position than we were under Jose.
With LVG you never expect to lose to anyone. Yes we may not score but his early games were good. He should have had a top British coach to help him with his first season. The club was wrong to push Giggs on him. Rene would have been the best option for LVG.
Tbf fergie was on his 26th year in charge. Just like fm anything beyond 5th year the club is practically yours with all the dna structured towards your style of play.
Did you forget his disastrous run in December of his last season when we went more than 9 games in a row winless and losing to the likes of Norwich, Bournemouth and Stoke City (and Norwich was at home)?
Also his early games weren't good either. People talk about Leicester game changing his attacking system to more defensive one but the question how many good games have we played before Leicester? Literally one, against QPR at home. He started his first season with a loss and 2 draws from the first 3 league games, defeated QPR at home then lost to Leicester and defeated WHU. His first winning of 6 games in a row that put us top 4 were mostly huge flukes and grinding results with poor performance.
It's the only other winning run in this season against City, Spurs and Liverpool stuff that was the only period we ever played any sort of good football under him. Worth noting that after this run we only won one of our last 5 games in the league and lost 3 in a row
I thought this run would had a lot of positives he can build on for the next season but his second season was an absolute trash and my God I felt a huge relief reading his sacking news report. His last few months at the club were draining my interest in watching United play massively.
I feel he's getting better in people's eyes the more years that passed as people have forgotten how ridiculously boring his football was but in reality he was a terrible manager for United and his project was never going to work anyway. The guy didn't even help himself with his crap transfer business. He replaced deadwood with more deadwood. He was supposed to rebuild the squad after Moyes but ended up making it more of a mess.
Scouts don’t sign players.
I remember turning off LVG games midway because I was so bored, same for Jose.
I remember when we lost under LVG I felt no emotion because I fully expected it.
Under Ole I've enjoyed games more. Yes we've been not so great against certain teams but the football, for me at least, has been so much more entertaining.
I've only turned off one Ole game and that was because I had an early work start.
Has he been perfect? No, not at all. But he has improved this team massively.
I remember when we lost under LVG I felt no emotion because I fully expected it.
Under Ole I've enjoyed games more. Yes we've been not so great against certain teams but the football, for me at least, has been so much more entertaining.
I've only turned off one Ole game and that was because I had an early work start.
Has he been perfect? No, not at all. But he has improved this team massively.
If we end up beating City, would we see more “Ole’s at the wheel” threads? The bottom line is we have an average manager and squad. They are made for each other.
All play shite football. But somehow the other two won at least a trophy
Why would the manager give a list of his targets to the scouts ? They are responsible for signing them, they're responsible for evaluating them for him, or discovering them.
I'm guessing he means a profile of player, not specific names. I would assume the job of a scout is to find players in vein of ones the manager wants. Perhaps this is where they failed?
At times, I have to admit that some of our signings have seemed a bit out of place. Maybe it is bad scout recommendations?
If you don't recognize that Ole's United has delivered FAR more enjoyable performances on the whole than LVG and Maureen, you're probably horribly biased against Ole.
That's my take on it. Because it seems bloody obvious to me.
That doesn't mean he's great or that he's the right man - and yeah, yeah: I don't believe in him at all, I just have a probably silly hope that he'll eventually prove himself fully.
But I have enjoyed watching United under him on multiple occasions. Under LVG and Maureen it wasn't "multiple occasions". It was usually a feckin' labour to last the full ninety, and very little to be genuinely excited about.
That's my take on it. Because it seems bloody obvious to me.
That doesn't mean he's great or that he's the right man - and yeah, yeah: I don't believe in him at all, I just have a probably silly hope that he'll eventually prove himself fully.
But I have enjoyed watching United under him on multiple occasions. Under LVG and Maureen it wasn't "multiple occasions". It was usually a feckin' labour to last the full ninety, and very little to be genuinely excited about.
I think the football in general is better than Jose and Lvg. But what it lacks and in a huge way is tactics. Ole only has Plan A and if that doesn't work then it is just hoping that plan a works somehow. couple that with his bad in game management and bad and ole's conservative play it looks bad.
We've been boring recently but by and large I think its been a stark improvement over Mourinho and Van Gaal. I think its a weird season and its hard to be too judgemental at this point. Theres so many attacking players struggling this season whether through injuries or dire form. Aubameyang, Werner, Havertz, Martial, Mane. Same with teams - it doesn't feel like a coincidence that Liverpool and Southampton nosedived around the same time and Brighton have been struggling for results despite good play. It doesn't feel like a coincidence that Cavani, Giroud, Callum Wilson and Kane have been having such good seasons.
Bit of a kneejerk thread, this season is the most condensed in history. There is barely anytime for work on the training ground, pretty much match, rest/recover, another match. Every team is going through bad patches and we are starting to look tried.
The football Ole has us playing is much better than LVG who bored us all to tears, sold half the squad, made horrific signings and brought through a load of kids who were no where near good enough. Granted he did bring Rashford through but there was even a touch of luck with that as Will Keane picked up an injury. Jose had his moments especially in the second season and the start we had with 4-0 FC going round but after that went away we became alot more pragmatic. Less said about his start to the 3rd season the better.
Give me Ole's football over 2 seasons of LVG and 2 and a bit of Mourinho's any day of the week.
The football Ole has us playing is much better than LVG who bored us all to tears, sold half the squad, made horrific signings and brought through a load of kids who were no where near good enough. Granted he did bring Rashford through but there was even a touch of luck with that as Will Keane picked up an injury. Jose had his moments especially in the second season and the start we had with 4-0 FC going round but after that went away we became alot more pragmatic. Less said about his start to the 3rd season the better.
Give me Ole's football over 2 seasons of LVG and 2 and a bit of Mourinho's any day of the week.
When Fergie started at United didn't he structure his style of play on the players faster than the managers who came after him though ?
Why at Chelsea and at Inter Mourinho was able to make the players buy into his philosophy in a way that he wasn't able to do here though ?
After SAF the most fun to watch season was the first Mourinho year. Results weren't great sure and when we decided to put all our eggs in the Europa League it was ugly at times, but a lot of the time we looked solid and full of confidence and surprisingly a lot of lost scoring opportunities. All the other three had their moments here and there.
Back to OP. No.
Just because we're running like headless chickens all the time doesn't count for exciting football.
Back to OP. No.
Just because we're running like headless chickens all the time doesn't count for exciting football.
I think Mourinho's man management has changed to the worse massively after his problems with Iker at Real Madrid. Before Madrid he used to have very strong relationships with his players to the point they were willing to run through walls for him. I remember watching an interview with Zlatan in which he said Mourinho was able to get the players to kill not for the club but for him. On the contrary current Mourinho seems to be more interested in fighting his own players. It's as if he became insecure after his problems with Madrid's dressing room.
And of course the overall mentality of current players now is different from the past.
Beside, there was absolutely no reason to keep LVG for another third year.
There was nothing pointing out he was moving the club on the right direction. His football was crap, yes he had a system, but a shit one, and his transfer business over 2 years was atrocious to even dare to say that he needed better players. There was a bigger chance that it would have gone worse than better.
The Fa Cup was nice but this had to be one of the easiest draws I have seen in a cup tournament in a very long time : Sheffield, Derby, WHU, Everton and Crystal Palace. It would have been ridiculous to not win it. Such cup can't cover for the shit show going throughout the whole season.
Beside, players didn't respect him anyway :
https://www.goal.com/en-us/news/van...-ignored-my-emails/10ifhqnr8joov1ifkpf1ag776m
Van Gaal was a terrible manager at United from almost all perspectives.
There was nothing pointing out he was moving the club on the right direction. His football was crap, yes he had a system, but a shit one, and his transfer business over 2 years was atrocious to even dare to say that he needed better players. There was a bigger chance that it would have gone worse than better.
The Fa Cup was nice but this had to be one of the easiest draws I have seen in a cup tournament in a very long time : Sheffield, Derby, WHU, Everton and Crystal Palace. It would have been ridiculous to not win it. Such cup can't cover for the shit show going throughout the whole season.
Beside, players didn't respect him anyway :
https://www.goal.com/en-us/news/van...-ignored-my-emails/10ifhqnr8joov1ifkpf1ag776m
Van Gaal was a terrible manager at United from almost all perspectives.