Is Ole's vision his or a vision based on restrictions from the ownership?

Discussion in 'Transfer Forum' started by Werder Herzog, Aug 8, 2019.

  1. Aug 8, 2019
    #1

    Werder Herzog Full Member

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    When Jose left in January we briefed of a director of football, and a proper plan in line with clubs values.

    We hired Ole - it was meant to be temporary, he did a great job and then once he signed permanently a decline set in. He clearly papered over cracks, and then true reality of the squad set in.

    During this time where he himself said he was going to be ruthless, Jones, Young , Mata and Perriera signed new deals, whilst our star man Pogba wanted away. Were these extensions done with his agreement? Or is it purely Woodward?

    It was reported far and wide 5-6 signings would be made, we lost Fellaini, we lost Herrera and as of today we sold our top scorer over the last 2 seasons.

    We have an ageing Sanchez who upset the wage structure and was signed on a whim but have signed fairly young talents that seem to fit the way we want to play going forward as seen in pre season, we have in Greenwood and i would say Gomes aswell 2 players who look like they can step up.

    We have not made any flash piano playing, helicopter dropping in, stormzy rapping signings- so is this a sign of Ole rebuilding in his vision or is there a darker reality that the Glazers are limiting funds and Ole's vision is formed upon these restrictions?

    It's clear to see for all the positives from pre season that there a still gaping holes in this team- especially in Midfield, and we are now heavily reliant on a player with the most notorious agent in football who has admitted he wants to leave, a few years ago he was Agent P, we were linked with Griezman, we have also been linked with Dybala before this summers shenanigans. For all our failings on the pitch we looked like a drawer still for top players.

    We have a stadium that is archaic with no signs of improvement , and Spurs are now a bigger drawer.

    As fans we want to be back challenging for titles, but our owners clearly dont care about this- Ole loves the club , but it looks more and more like a yes man signing rather than a sign of change- how much longer does the Utd brand enable us to get the top players we would like to see to return us to former glories or is it a masterplan based on these restrictions where Ole is shaping a team rather than individuals playing in an XI - or is the answer somewhere between?

    It very much seems like the Glazernomics of Fergie's last few years are in play, but we don't have Fergie as manager.

    I know this is all a bit scattergun and not very coherent but i'm shattered and just genuinely concerned.
  2. Aug 8, 2019
    #2

    Annihilate Now! ...or later, I'm not fussy Scout

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    One Man. One Goal. Ole Vision.
  3. Aug 8, 2019
    #3

    dove Full Member

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    Youth. Courage. Success.
  4. Aug 8, 2019
    #4

    Reddy Rederson New Member

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    I guess we will find out this season. I don’t expect miracles, but if we don’t see progress then we will have our answer.
  5. Aug 8, 2019
    #5

    SirAF Ageist

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    :lol:
  6. Aug 8, 2019
    #6

    devilish Juventus fan who used to support United

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    Survival of the fittest
  7. Aug 8, 2019
    #7

    DownRiver New Member

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    We just need dismantling. Woodward's 7 year work experience has regressed the club whilst letting others clubs steer ahead. It's amazing how Raul transformed Arsenal in one transfer window.

    Honestly, if we come 5th or worse then do not blame Ole even if he is partly at fault. It's too easy. You put pressure on Woodward to leave.

    I am just hoping a Saudi oligarchy just comes and sweeps us off our feet.

    *Edit: whatever oligarchy, it could be Swedish for all I care.
  8. Aug 8, 2019
    #8

    Reddy Rederson New Member

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    there’s a horrid thought.
  9. Aug 8, 2019
    #9

    christinaa Gossip Girl

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    A vision based on restrictions from the ownership - that's the answer to your question.
  10. Aug 8, 2019
    #10

    romufc Full Member

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    Very concerned about the future of this club. This transfer window has shown we are not going to be challenging under Ed Woodward.

    If it is the Glazers who have decided the clubs budget as low as it is, why come out and say we will back our manager and we can do things teams can dream off. Surely that suggests he has the clout to decide on the transfer budget.

    However; all Woodward has done is lied, pure and simple.

    We may have a long term strategy, but I cannot see one. Yes it takes 2/3 transfer windows to get it right but at this rate, it will never happen.

    You cannot extend Mata, Young etc contracts because you will have to replace them in a few years time. We have a history of never replacing players.

    If we do not compete top 3 this year, Pogba will leave next summer, so this will be taking us 5 steps back rather than forward.

    So next year we will need to get:

    RW
    ST
    3 CM's
    LB cover

    How many of us think we will get that? I think we have 0 chance of competing in the next 5 years.
  11. Aug 8, 2019
    #11

    Crashoutcassius Full Member

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    I think it is Ole to a big extent and he is correct that we shouldn't sign average players that will stand in the way of Gomes and Greenwood.

    But to think of the amount of quality and other young exciting options we could have added this summer makes me sad, as well as depth in CM where we don't have prospects that are ready to play
  12. Aug 8, 2019
    #12

    R'hllor Full Member

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    Preparing notion on time, i like it.
  13. Aug 8, 2019
    #13

    redIndianDevil Full Member

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    That is how all football managers operate. Even Guardiola has some restrictions.
  14. Aug 8, 2019
    #14

    patty123 New Member

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    Sadly its not the 1990's anymore and lets face it, the league is 20 times the strength it was back then in term of what the other teams are doing.
  15. Aug 8, 2019
    #15

    DamoK New Member

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    Yeah we are definitely being restricted by our owners, we've had two summer windows where our net spend is peanuts compared to the likes of real Madrid etc. We should be able to spend the same amount at Madrid but we are now being out spent by Arsenal and Spurs.
  16. Aug 8, 2019
    #16

    redIndianDevil Full Member

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    IMO appointing Ole is also causing serious troubles for us, we are already down and most players look at wages before football when signing for us, add in a manager/coach with 0 pedigree, you are asking for a disaster. Almost all PL clubs offer quite good money, so even the most mercenary players are going to look at football if they want to sign.
  17. Aug 8, 2019
    #17

    christinaa Gossip Girl

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    But it seems that United have many, many more restrictions than anyone else.
  18. Aug 8, 2019
    #18

    charlenefan Far less insightful than the other Charley

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    Addressing some of the points in the OP

    1- Last season papered over the cracks? This remains to be seen. I hope it was a case of lack of fitness catching up with them. I remember when Poch took over at Spurs and his first priority was getting them fitter. It took around half a season if not longer. The concerning thing about last seasons dip in form was the inability for anyone to pull us out of it but again I hope it was down to just fitness

    2- Being ruthless. This is easier said than done. We've managed to sell one valuable asset who was stinking up the place but he was a valuable asset, the likes of Smalling, Jones, Rojo and Darmian are not. They're average players on superstar wages who we'll want a fee for. It's not easy to shift them. If we manage to get just one off the books before September the 2nd it'll be a step in the right direction

    3- Ole being a yes man. I think his treatment of Lukaku shows this isn't the case. Ole knows the profile of player he wants and the club to their credit have got them. We're Manchester United, one of the so called biggest clubs in the country, if they get even the slightest hint that the likes of Dybala and Eriksen dont want to come then we walk away. Look at what has happened over the last few years when we've signed players who aren't 100% committed. All I read is people saying Pogba doesn't want to be here (I dont actually agree with that) if that's true then do we really want more players like him?

    We've signed 2 excellent players who have levelled up the starting XI no end, if we can get UCL football for next season then I have no doubts we'll go all out for Sancho next summer, he's the type of player I want us to sign and fits the same profile that the likes of AWB and Maguire do. Ole did warn everyone that what he wanted to build wouldn't happen over the space of one transfer window a point lost on a lot unfortunately
  19. Aug 8, 2019
    #19

    SaintMuppet New Member

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    It will be a sad day should it be the Saudi’s. That will be the day my association with the club would end. Whilst that regime remained I charge I could not in good conscience continue to support the club
  20. Aug 8, 2019
    #20

    Ace of Spades Full Member

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    I am happy that we are not making any panic signings. Our defence is good, and our midfield is fine, our attack is the biggest problem. We need a better AM than Lingard and Mata, and a right winger as well.
  21. Aug 8, 2019
    #21

    redIndianDevil Full Member

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    Why don't you name a few?

    Eriksen - doesn't want to come to us. Finance is not the problem.
    Dybala - doesn't want to come to us for reasonable wages. Finance was not the problem.
    Bruno - doesn't look like we were even in for him.
    Maguire - signed
    AWB - signed
  22. Aug 8, 2019
    #22

    JPRouve can't stop thinking about balls - NOT deflategate Scout

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    How so? Which restrictions are in place at United?
  23. Aug 8, 2019
    #23

    2 man midfield Incestuous Modern Woman (Dumper!)

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    I’d like to hear what he actually thinks. He’s probably seething right now.
  24. Aug 8, 2019
    #24

    Mourinhonista Correctly predicted France to win World Cup 2018

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    If the youth players were to play more why didn't they during meaningless friendlies? That's a real concern to me. Expect the likes of Matic, Mata, Young and young boy Lingard to feature a lot, even Sanchez will get more playing time than the young ones. Overall the squad ain't too bad, but for Manchester United it could be a lot better. Looking forward to the finger pointing when we won't get enough points and boys will tell the fans 'we go again' while pocketing millions of euros from fans worldwide.

    Someone like Dembele (Barcelona) and e.g
    Ceballos/Eriksen would have been very good. Barcelon, Real Madrid and City don't feck around.
  25. Aug 8, 2019
    #25

    Fergie's Man Suffers Snails fetish

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    Restricted by Ed and Ed's vision of making himself bulletproof, should Ole fail.
  26. Aug 8, 2019
    #26

    Sky1981 Fending off the urge

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    You want a young modern attacking manager that knows the value of united.

    When you get ole, you say he's a glazer yes man.

    You want young british core. When you got that you say it's glazernomic.

    You want hungry players, when you have them you say it's a cheap knockout.

    Haters gonna hate
  27. Aug 8, 2019
    #27

    red4ever 79 Full Member

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    Seriously you even need to ask the question?

    Ole is a 'face' for the owners and Ed to provide a barrier in the hope the fans wont turn on him because of his legendary status with the club. The first clue was after the Everton game last season when Ole said what all us fans thought some of these players will be gone. Clearly he was pulled to one side and told by Ed not to condemn the players in public again, because our form got even worse towards the back end of the season and Old said nothing. The clear out hasnt happened we still have the same crap at the club.

    We have the owners and Ed running the club. Their objective is to make as much money as possible for the owners. Winning trophies has gone out of the window and you can see that by our transfer activity over the past 2 years.
  28. Aug 8, 2019
    #28

    0le Full Member

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    Well written. But I will also add, getting top 4, with the midfield we have, will be a big ask. It will require several players making improvements from last season, namely Pereira, Rashford, Martial, Fred and McTominay. I've only seen evidence of McTominay making the necessary improvement.

    I will also add, that I think Ole is putting a lot of faith in Greenwood and McTominay.
  29. Aug 8, 2019
    #29

    Amir Full Member

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    One goal sounds about right for us this season. :lol:
  30. Aug 8, 2019
    #30

    Jimmy_Bond Full Member

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    Didn't the club post a post tax loss of £50m last year? That was with Champion's League football, so you can guarantee that will rise this year.

    Yet fans still think going out and spending £300m is the way to go.

    There is a lot to do at the club. So many people need getting rid of, seeing as almost every single signing has failed post-Ferguson.

    We have spent a fortune since Ferguson left, and seen very little return. Such thing doesn't come with no consequence. Right now we're in a very difficult place and the only way out is by being incredibly astute in the transfer market, improving those players already here (many of whom cost a fortune), and developing the very talented young players that we have. We can't go out and spend hundreds of millions on more players who could fail.

    The model to follow is the Liverpool/ Spurs model. We tried the City one and failed. It's not sustainable. Some people on here need to either understand basic business and finance/ or grow up and live in the real world.
  31. Aug 8, 2019
    #31

    diarm Full Member

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    To be fair, it is where they keep all their trophies.
  32. Aug 8, 2019
    #32

    Kill 'em all Pastor of Muppets

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    The post tax loss was due to a change in US tax law which prompted a big write off of the deferred tax asset of the company. We are back to profit making this year as seen on our quarterly financial statements.

    I believe Ole really does have a vision but no manager can complete his vision with the incompetence of our ownership, structures and management of the club.
  33. Aug 8, 2019
    #33

    roonster09 Correctly predicted France to win World Cup 2018 Scout

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    There was reports in Telegraph, BBC and few others that there will be 5 signings (I even started that thread) but Ole also said in one of the press that we shouldn't 5-6 signings and the rebuild can't be done in one window. I disagree with that sentiment but if that's the way he wants to build the team, then it's a risk he is taking.

    Regarding offloading, people expect a lot. We can't clear out the deadwood all at once, also what fans think as deadwood might not be considered as deadwood by manager/management.

    I said it few months back that we will sell/offload few players and still there will be complaints on the players we didn't sell. We have created this mess and it's hard to come out of it now.

    Fellaini, Valencia, Herrera have gone (we shouldn't have let Herrera go, but that's for different thread). Lukaku is on his way out and rumors that Everton wants Rojo on loan and then Darmian is available for anyone who wants him. We should offload few more players without doubt but this is the mess we have created.

    This summer and last is the result of all the mess we have created from long time and finally we are paying the price.

    Regarding the restrictions, I think there are restrictions on Ole and that's because of the bloated squad.

    I agree with anyone having concerns on the team we have, we need good RW and DM for sure. Might bite us big time in the season and also lack of depth in attack is bit worrying.
  34. Aug 8, 2019
    #34

    passing-wind Full Member

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    Absolutely ridiculous observation how did Ole do a great job last season ? We were in 6th when he took over and finished 6th those are the facts. He verbally made an objective to finish in the top four and he was incapable of galvanising the team to better performances. The absolute joke of it all is that our starting 11 is even worse than last season's. The lack of balance throughout this team will show against any organised opposition.
  35. Aug 8, 2019
    #35

    IAN HEALY New Member

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    So much for the rebuild under Ole. Even if we signed a top drawer striker today what would it say abut our approach. Wait until a day before the season starts to get the squad together. at this point nobody knows what we will have come the first game. Woodward seems intent on doing the bare minimum. Big clubs don't mess about when they want a target. Except us that is. I would love to know the targets Ole claims he had at the end of last season. Is this really the playing staff he wanted ?
  36. Aug 8, 2019
    #36

    christinaa Gossip Girl

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    We are restricted by the Glazers and Ed.
    Should we be in this position on the last day of the window and are you happy with our deals or non-deals ?
  37. Aug 8, 2019
    #37

    JPRouve can't stop thinking about balls - NOT deflategate Scout

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    The question was how. Here you just repeated the same thing without explaing the restrictions. We did what I expected us to do, which was spend a lot on very few players and I didn't expect to be particularly happy.
  38. Aug 8, 2019
    #38

    Ali Dia Full Member

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    I’ve got to stop posting on here while it’s all so doom and gloom but I’m also annoyed.

    I like the signings. We’ve spent good money on them. But once we sell Lukuku it’s once again a very small spend on a team that’s already so far behind. There are glaring holes in the squad that haven’t been fixed, contracts given to players that shouldn’t have got them and now what seems like another horrible scattergun summer - trying to sign Mandzukic on deadline day. We are a badly run football team, I don’t know how anyone can deny it.
  39. Aug 8, 2019
    #39

    Bestietom Full Member

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    Think Ole now knows this is a bigger job than he first thought, and if he hasn't got the clubs backing in transfer market, or can't get the players he wants for other reasons ( no Champions League), then he has to depend on the youth.
    We are weaker this season from midfield to forwards, and we need the youth players to step up to the mark and help us out here.
  40. Aug 8, 2019
    #40

    christinaa Gossip Girl

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    If you can't see that there are restrictions in the background then it's useless discussing.