Is Ole's vision his or a vision based on restrictions from the ownership?

Discussion in 'Transfer Forum' started by Werder Herzog, Aug 8, 2019.

  1. Aug 9, 2019
    #81

    Red Keane New Member

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    Pep managed to build his side across 3 seasons worth of transfer windows, we have had 6 seasons worth of transfer windows to do so and we are still giving far too much game to the likes of Smalling & Jones. So it is not unreasonable to ask for the Glazers/Woodwood to try and make up for lost time considering how much time they have wasted.

    The problem is not what they ended up doing this time round, it is what they not done since 2013 (or even earlier) that is the real big problem...

    Or rather the Glazers where not willing to spend what was needed to get Sancho...

    Ole yes, Woodwood never. Regardless no matter how good Greenwood gets, he alone cannot solve our issues in Midfield, Defence or for that matter what take place in the boardroom.
  2. Aug 9, 2019
    #82

    dave2528 Full Member

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    A vision of playing 7 at the back.

    We're playing a 7 - 3 formation this season.
  3. Aug 9, 2019
    #83

    Devil may care Full Member

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    Very well put, no PL team was even looking at Ole and obviously he got the gig here because we were desperate and he's a club hero, but so far most of what he's said hasn't been backed up, he panders to the likes of Rashford and Lingard, and he's obviously come at a much lower wage than our previous 3 managers as he wanted the job so badly, making it easy for that con man Woodward to sack him cheaply when it all inevitably goes tits up, and he'll cause no fuss because he was brought up by Fergie.
  4. Aug 9, 2019
    #84

    beingshe7don Full Member

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    3 more seasons and Woodward will have more lives than a cat. I've come to grips with the fact that Woodward screwed us over and we didn't invest enough and get players in. However, what pisses me off is when people get overly optimistic (aka Ole syndrome) and are hoping for this team to tear up the league or are happy that Lukaku got sold and now Rashford finally has it 'chance'..... to do absolutely jack shit. Our midfielders are worst off from last season with the loss of Herrera and our forward line is worst off with us losing a proven goal scorer.

    I'm sick of this fake and put on optimism from Ole. Ole said last season that we would be surprised at the type and quality of world-class players are hoping to come to OT. Where are they? Was he referring to Wan Bassaka and Maguire? Last time I checked, Dybala and Eriksen, both rejected us.

    Also, he mentioned after the Everton game that some of the players won't be here next season? as he continues on his pursuit for success. Was he referring to Herrera and Lukaku? while we continue to give Darmian, Rojo, Jones, Young, Mata contracts.

    Ole won't be successful here... He may have the support and backing of the club and fans for now and is banking on his laurels of being a Man Utd legend way too much. The excuses are gonna run out eventually. He's not ruthless enough to be a manager.
  5. Aug 9, 2019
    #85

    Devil may care Full Member

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    Ole is the ideal front man for Woodward, with his chirpy little press conferences and his history at the club, it'll take longer for fans to wake up than it did with LvG and Jose, and when the time comes he'll be cheaply disposed of with no fuss as he wont embarrass the club and talk badly about the shit show behind the scenes the way Jose and LvG have, and we can start the next farcical cycle. When it became clear Dybala didn't want to come here and all the reasons we briefed were bullshit as he would have gone to Spurs had they been able to sort the image rights out, it spoke volumes.

    All these players that wanted to come here was probably the biggest lie Ole told in his increasingly naive sounding press conferences, Maguire is a good CB, probably in the top 5 in the PL, but nowhere near the standard we used to have, and Wan-Bissaka is essentially half a fullback.

    As far as the rest of the failings this summer, did Ole really only want Longstaff and nobody else for midfield? Does he really not see Matic is done? If so then that's on him, up top it looks like a mix of the club being tight and players not wanting to come here, either way it'll be another nothing season with another manager sacked, just this time without the circus antics of the previous manager.
  6. Aug 9, 2019
    #86

    beingshe7don Full Member

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    I have a feeling Ole will somehow scrap 4th place (not because of us actually deserve it but because Chelsea and Arsenal will screw up). With that being said, I think we'll once again buy 2 to 3 more players.
  7. Aug 9, 2019
    #87

    Devil may care Full Member

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    Chelsea having a transfer ban has given us a half chance, but I think we'll out-Arsenal, Arsenal, both teams are filled with gutless players but they have the more experienced manager and much better forwards to win them the tight games against lower half teams set up to defend, where we will drop lots of points because our firepower is weak. I also wouldn't rule out one of the 3 from the chasing pack to leapfrog us and Arsenal.
  8. Aug 9, 2019
    #88

    Scholsey2004 Full Member

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    I think Ole would have wanted a couple more players but the players he got looked very much what he was looking for. I'd say Maguire will be captain in a couple of seasons and the quality and quantity of the English contingent was considerably improved which will hopefully provide a healthier core group. I was happy to see us pull out of negotiations for players who weren't really bothered about being here as well. In recent years we've had problems with star players passing through on their way to somewhere they view as better so good to see that was avoided. Hopefully Gomes breaks through this season and makes up for the failure to find a good CAM.

    Essentially I think ole got what he was looking for rather than what Ed wanted which has been a problem in recent seasons. I don't think weve had so much of a problem with spending restrictions so much as poor and unco-ordinated spending.
  9. Aug 9, 2019
    #89

    Virgil Full Member

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    Personally I am quietly encouraged by the clubs performance in this transfer window. Three apparently 'hungry' Brits signed for whom money was not the first or over riding factor. Add to that the prospect of two or three youngsters being given the chance to step up to the plate big time. So what if we have to rely on McTominay, Greenwood and Gomes. Thats no different from Fergies hope that the class of 92 would turn it on. Dread to think the screams there would have been had this forum been around in 92........all of those unproven youngsters. Not one of them a 'star' 'seasoned' player. Shocking.

    And there I was believing that one of the real pluses of Utd was our willingness to give youth a chance and promote from within the ranks. How daft is that. And who knows if we are doing quite well come Christmas perhaps just perhaps the squad might be tweaked in the January window although its not always the best to buy in.

    So until proven wrong excuse me for remaining optimistic and reckoning that Ole looks as if he might, just might, be starting to make a half decent fist of his tenure.
  10. Aug 11, 2019
    #90

    RedStarUnited Full Member

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    If the plan is to save money, you dont go and target young British players based in the premiership. They are the most expensive players to buy.
  11. Aug 11, 2019
    #91

    Gasolin Full Member

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    Wow wait I’m curious too now, what are those restrictions ? Because so far we spend a lot, maybe not the way we want, but a lot.
  12. Aug 11, 2019
    #92

    Stobzilla Official Team Perv

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    They've spent half a billion quid !
  13. Aug 11, 2019
    #93

    tenpoless Full Member

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    Yes. At the beginning of LvG and Mourinho era We spent like a madman. But it's been limited since. The failure of the past shouldn't be an indicator to restrict a new/future manager, not if you have no idea about football.

    It's them Glazers I'm telling you. They manage a football club like a corporation.
  14. Aug 11, 2019
    #94

    Sky1981 Fending off the urge

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    Ole spents as much as lvg and mourinho. Dont make it sounds like ole was given peanuts
  15. Aug 11, 2019
    #95

    Sassy Colin Death or the gladioli!

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    What a shit show this thread is.
  16. Aug 11, 2019
    #96

    Tincanalley Turns player names into a crappy conversation

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    I think there is an incidental aspect to this that we have to consider. We know Woody is a muppet. Perhaps his muppetry annoyed the owners. Perhaps his wings have been clipped. That would explain a more Ole centred role, and Oles stance in pressers
  17. Aug 11, 2019
    #97

    Black Adder Full Member

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    Ole must become more aggressive with player departures.

    There's no point in keeping Rojo and Darmian around first team when it's obvious he won't use them. If he managed to put Lukaku out of the team, why not do the same with those two? Send them to reserves and show Woodward he doesn't count on them and that they should be sold asap, not wait another 4 years with them stinking up the place.

    Also, if his vision is based on high press football, what's the point in giving Mata new contract since he barely walks let alone runs on the pitch?

    Overall so far I think Ole's done really god job. He's shown belief in young players, has idea of playing attacking football with high press and intensity, has been model pro infront of the media and seems unfazed what others think about his work (unlike "me me me" managers before him). I've been overlycritical of him in last several days, but that's because I really want him to succeed here but keeping players like Mata, Matić, Young, Lingard, Jones, Rojo, Darmian, Smalling and Lingard will make that process hard.
  18. Aug 11, 2019
    #98

    Zehner Full Member

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    I think you guys are trying to make the second step before the first. Worldclass players/talents aren't going to sign for you in your current situation. Why would someone like Sancho, Joao Felix, Griezmann, Dybala etc. go to United if the whole world is in for them?

    First, you need to prove the world that you're on the right track. Sign young and promising players, play a specific brand of football, build something over the course of multiple seasons. Are you doing that? I'm still not sure. Solskjaer could be a coach with a clear idea of how he wants to play, but he could also be a typical traditional/outdated British coach.

    You need to be aware of the impression you currently leave around the world. Your club has no philosophy, it doesn't seem like there's an overarching plan or anything, and you're obsessed with individual quality/convinced that your problems can be solved by just signing better players. And willing to massively overspend as long as the player is either English, plays in the EPL or has some sort of history with your club. To me, you're like the prototype of a club living in the past.

    feck signing the very best players. That's not how exemplarily Liverpool managed to get back on the top, exemplarily. Go the long way, do your homework and assure that the basics are there. Make it clear that you're vuilding something coherent, signing players that fit to a certain style of play, even if they aren't the very best in their respective positions. Money alone isn't enough anymore and if it is you automatically attract players who come for the wrong reasons. You need to become attractive again for athletic reasons, not monetary ones.

    I'm still not sure the leaders of the club or your fans have understood that. You sign Harry Maguire for 90 fecking million and everyone's happy again.
  19. Aug 11, 2019
    #99

    Gasolin Full Member

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    You haven’t watched Ole’s team if you think it doesn’t have a philosophy. Stop that nonsense, Ole explicitly said he doesn’t want to pay over the odds if the player is not convinced, and Ole has shown what his plans are, on the field. The window is over anyway so just watch the games then instead of writing some weird stuff... you’ll see his philosophy clearly. Very very clearly.

    Spoiler: it’s not a British one, it’s a high pressing one with modern touches and a pragmatic approach to win
  20. Aug 11, 2019

    ManchesterYoda Full Member

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    We've needed an inverted right side attacker for 6 seasons. Solskjaer didn't sign one. This stresses me out so much I've just lit a 2nd cigarette when I've already got one sat in my ashtray.
  21. Aug 11, 2019

    Zehner Full Member

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    I explicitly said that Solskjaer may be a manager with a clear philosophy so I don't really understand your point.

    Thing is, even if you're currently implementing a philosophy you're still at the very beginning of a development that'll take years and might still fail, and that's not enough for the very best players like Dybala or Griezmann. Focusing your transfer activities on such players is pointless because in your current situation, they won't come. Maybe one or two seasons down the road when there's actual proof that you're on the right track you could sign such players again but until then you should be looking at one or two tiers below that.
  22. Aug 11, 2019

    Gasolin Full Member

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    Your point is that big players won’t come. My point is the philosophy is so crystal clear and will be so if we really want to sign them they will come. Maybe for a Bayer Leverkusen fan used to second tier signing, that’s the way to be, and I am not trying to disrespect your club, I like them very much, but for United, the identity was a big thing and it is back with Ole. If we were in the same “situation” but we had the CL, players would be joining and we would stop with that nonsense. Anyway, let’s stop here, you just have to watch the game to understand why we are excited.

    And you said:
    Sign young and promising players, play a specific brand of football, build something over the course of multiple seasons. Are you doing that? I'm still not sure.

    If you’re not sure then you don’t acknowledge the clear philosophy Ole is following since day 1 of his management.