Is our fanbase the most entitled/ knee jerk toxic fanbase around?

[Dr. StrangeHate]

I am guessing people saying yes have never watched Real Madrid when they had fans in. Barcelona fans wanted Valverde sacked when they had won two titles on the bounce. Bayern fans wanted Kovac sacked despite winning the title.

Our match going fans are the most patient in world football. They supported Moyes and Jose's 3rd season ffs.

 

[Offside]

This place nowadays is worse than RAWK ever was for kneejerks.

 

[fps]

The fan base is like any other fan base. It thinks it’s really special but mostly that’s not true.

 

[Forevergiggs1]

That's your opinion. I think being the in-form in the PL in 2020, as well as across the last 6 rounds is quite significant in itself. I would also say that against Southampton and WBA we were by far the dominant and more comfortable team. Against the Saints we conceded two goals from set pieces and almost no pressure from the opponents while against the Baggies our forwards couldn't score to save their lives.

As for your last question, maybe look at Liverpool after 2 years under Klopp and see how consistent were they.

Yes it's my opinion and I stick by it. I was talking about being comfortable in games so I don't know why you brought up Southampton because I don't think coming from 2-0 down shows we were anyway comfortable. Against WBA while our forwards may have missed various opportunities it was still a tight game which could of changed if they didn't have their penalty overturned and then us getting a penalty which shouldn't of stood because of a previous foul.

I'll ask again. After 2 years and hundreds of millions spent shouldn't we be at least be able to watch 2 games in a row where we don't put ourselves under unnecessary pressure? You keep talking of results but I'm talking about performances and the 2 aren't always mutually linked.

If you want to foolishly bring Klopp into the equation I'll answer you. At the end of his second full season he had Liverpool 4th and into the CL final. So lets see if Ole can accomplish the same....... Oh wait.

 

[devilish]

I am guessing people saying yes have never watched Real Madrid when they had fans in. Barcelona fans wanted Valverde sacked when they had won two titles on the bounce. Bayern fans wanted Kovac sacked despite winning the title.

Our match going fans are the most patient in world football. They supported Moyes and Jose's 3rd season ffs.

This 'patience is key' and 'nothing will change up until the Glazer's are gone' BS is hurting us big time. It creates complacency and acceptance for what is clearly not good enough. Meanwhile standards keep dropping. We used to consider not competing for the EPL title as a disastrous season. Nowadays we celebrate top 4 and we're kind of satisfied that we got kicked out from the CL by fecking Leipzig.

It would be ironic if the Glazers of all people would pull the trigger at our system. I can't blame them. Its hard to see 1 billion in investment going down the drain. It shouldn't be like that though. The Americans have no idea about football. They might own the darn thing but we're the custodians of it.

So I'd say the fans should unite and they should make their voice heard. We might share different views about the manager, the coaches, the visions or the tactics but even the staunchest of Ole ins and the most extremist of the Ole outs know that Woodward and his University of Bristol mate aren't good enough for the job they are in. So make your voice heard and don't stop until action is taken. This is our club. Its not the Glazers, it's not Woodward's, its not the United's employees job (including Ole). I assure you if the salary stops then they will leave. So its up to us to say enough is enough and let's force the club to update our football structure to the 21st century

 

[Plymouth Red]

Is this fanbase debate about United’s global set of fans, or the UK element, or those who regularly go to matches or members of the Cafe or all Cafe users?
As I write this, here’s the online Cafe profile.
Total: 1,953 (members: 380, guests: 1,469, robots: 104)
Let’s say five percent are naturally obnoxious to other members, Ole, Ed, certain players, the team and humanity generally. That’s 93 people. A couple of team buses full.
Like all things social media, a very small minority can easily spoil things for the rest and create a false sense of widespread toxicity.
My advice, for what worth, is to ignore the rubbish that fuels some folk and don’t join in.
Life’s too short to go around making it worse than it already needs to be.

 

[georgipep]

Yes it's my opinion and I stick by it. I was talking about being comfortable in games so I don't know why you brought up Southampton because I don't think coming from 2-0 down shows we were anyway comfortable. Against WBA while our forwards may have missed various opportunities it was still a tight game which could of changed if they didn't have their penalty overturned and then us getting a penalty which shouldn't of stood because of a previous foul.

I'll ask again. After 2 years and hundreds of millions spent shouldn't we be at least be able to watch 2 games in a row where we don't put ourselves under unnecessary pressure? You keep talking of results but I'm talking about performances and the 2 aren't always mutually linked.

If you want to foolishly bring Klopp into the equation I'll answer you. At the end of his second full season he had Liverpool 4th and into the CL final. So lets see if Ole can accomplish the same....... Oh wait.

First of all, we should be worried that VAR overturned penalties that shouldn't have been given? Riiiight...
Then, against Southampton, can you tell me, other than their two goals from set pieces, what else did they produce and what did we?

As for Klopp, yeah, they got to a final. How consistent were they in the league? We made stupid mistakes against Istanbul away and then were unlucky not to beat PSG at home, so we're deservedly out of the CL. At the same time are having our strongest start in the PL since Fergie days. Performance wise, we're playing, in my opinion, the best football we've played since Ferguson too. I'm not as entitled as you are to want us to dominate each and every team we face. I watch other teams too and can see that the same WBA side actually drew with both Chelsea and City. That same Southampton lost this season only to us, Spurs and today, Man City.

It is obvious our team still is missing a few pieces to being the finished article but even without those pieces, we're a damn good side that is capable of producing top level football and quite consistently, as our results (as, yes results!) are showing.

 

[hobbers]

This forum is absolutely massive compared to most other fan forums and isn't moderated by deranged lunatics (for the most part) like RAWK and Bluemoon are. So it's not really something you can compare directly.

Go and have a look at the English speaking Juventus or Real forums though, they are orders of magnitude more toxic when things aren't going their way.

The bottom line is our fanbase is no different to any other. We're not more or less passionate or toxic or reactionary or loyal or delusional than any others.

 

[Foxbatt]

I have no idea if the Ole ins and the Ole outs are new fans when Ole joined or just fans from the PL time. There are a few here from the good old days of the old second division. It used to get toxic in the stadiums even then. Obviously no internet but the fans could get very volatile when things are not going well. I mean even recent times even Fergie was slated at the stadium. True fans want the best for their clubs no matter how small or big they are. The expectations would be different of course with different clubs. We have been rebuilding since Fergie left and it is not good enough to say that every manager we get is rebuilding. Managers should be able to come and play good football and win trophies or challenge because the players we have at United are not just ordinary players. We have top class players apart from a DM and the CBs. Even then our CBs are not the worst in the PL. They are among the top 5 certainly.

What bothers me now is that there are fans of the manager or certain player and that rises above the love for the club. They want United to lose so Ole can be sacked or United to win so that Ole can stay even if he is not the one to win the PL or the CL.

 

[Theonas]

Compared to clubs of our caliber in terms of wealth, pedigree, wage bill, squad cost, etc ... not even close! We are if anything the most patient and forgiving.

 

[big rons sovereign]

Is this fanbase debate about United’s global set of fans, or the UK element, or those who regularly go to matches or members of the Cafe or all Cafe users?
As I write this, here’s the online Cafe profile.
Total: 1,953 (members: 380, guests: 1,469, robots: 104)
Let’s say five percent are naturally obnoxious to other members, Ole, Ed, certain players, the team and humanity generally. That’s 93 people. A couple of team buses full.
Like all things social media, a very small minority can easily spoil things for the rest and create a false sense of widespread toxicity.
My advice, for what worth, is to ignore the rubbish that fuels some folk and don’t join in.
Life’s too short to go around making it worse than it already needs to be.

104 robots? I wonder how many I've argued with....

 

[sport2793]

Compared to clubs of our caliber in terms of wealth, pedigree, wage bill, squad cost, etc ... not even close! We are if anything the most patient and forgiving.

I think that's true for the average match-going fan but certainly not for online ones.

 

[Theonas]

I think that's true for the average match-going fan but certainly not for online ones.

The vote on here as it stands is 56% in favor of keeping OGS. Do you think Juventus, Barcelona, Chelsea or Real fans would vote the same in similar conditions?

In my perception, we have a large portion of online fans who are similar to every other big club. But the difference is we also have a large portion of online fans who also have the same sacred view of a manager. The latter are making the overall picture much more tolerant and forgiving compared to other big clubs who do not have such cultural ties to the role of manager. Maybe Liverpool when I think of it have something similar with how much they worship their own managerial heroes.

 

[Ramshock]

most of us know that the match day thread should be avoided, as it’s pretty horrible.

but is our fanbase horrific, or is this how every fanbase react?

is this a symptom of a global fanbase? Is this just how modern fans react?

the negativity on here is astonishing. As soon as we concede, we see the ‘ole out’ threads bumped, we see new threads created to slag off Henderson, we see threads bumped which are pseudo player performance threads to bash players.

does anyone have any patience anymore?

more importantly, do these fans actually enjoy Watching football, or do they prefer to find the negative in every single match?

anyone who is positive gets accused of ‘accepting mediocrity’.

do other clubs laugh at our shocking fans base, or are their ‘Internet fans’ just as bad?

Yup although Gooners just as bad

 

[Le Red]

This again? You don't know many fanbase do you?
If anything, our fanbase is the most apathic, lethargic, pedestrian and inoffensive there is, second only to Arsenal's.

 

[Le Red]

Its a generation of United supporters that grew up under Ferguson and think that that is just how its supposed to be all the time.

When you have the money, structure and brand that MUFC has, winning or at least being competitive is indeed what you are supposed to be doing most of the time. It has nothing to do with SAF but the sheep can't see it.

 

[redcafe_reader]

Yes. We have the most toxic, entitled fanbase, by far.

We are so used to be spoiled by SAF, that we don't understand the meaning of support a struggling team. We have been struggling for less than 10 years, but as the latest report, our fanbase is getting smaller and smaller and smaller. Just see the stadium, it's mostly empty nowadays.

When Mourinho sits in 2nd place after winning Europa League we still have a lot of threads criticizing him. When Ole is only potentially 2 points of 1st place in December we still have a lot of threads criticizing him. Isn't those thread starters a clear sigh of a fake, terrible, entitled fan?

I also used to support Real Madrid, Barcelona, Bayern Munich (I actually only quit supporting Real during Barcelona domination period) and I can say for sure that their fanbase is much more forgiving and much less entitled. We should all learn from them.

 

[Son]

So you're saying we should win 100% of our games, not allow the opposition any chances or goals, dominate the whole 90 minutes and do it with flair. Is that about right?

I would expect all that against Basaksehir yes. You did ask about games fans could think of though and I named quite a few so I kinda proved you wrong.

 

[georgipep]

I would expect all that against Basaksehir yes. You did ask about games fans could think of though and I named quite a few so I kinda proved you wrong.

Where did I ask that? And I imagine you also have the same feelings and expectations towards Klopp and Guardiola? And you are equally shocked why weren't they sacked when they didn't completely crush Fulham and Aston Villa, respectively, right?

Final question: do you think the goals we conceded against Istanbul away were due to tactical errors?

 

[Zen86]

When you have the money, structure and brand that MUFC has, winning or at least being competitive is indeed what you are supposed to be doing most of the time. It has nothing to do with SAF but the sheep can't see it.

The problem with these people is they think the MUFC ‘brand’ has this god given right to compete for all trophies, all the time. It’s the deluded mindset of “We’re Manchester United we should have high standards and win because we’re so big” that we laughed at Liverpool about for so many years.

This is where these the entitlement claims come from, quite rightly. Sadly I don’t think some have the capacity to grasp that it’s not the Fergie days any more, and it takes hard work to be successful.

 

[AFC NimbleThumb]

A big problem with our fanbase is the growing contingent who like to place their fandom above others that don’t support the club in the same way as they do.

It’s a forum lads, learn to handle opposing opinions.

Manchester United have no god given right to win anything, the same way no fan has the right to look down on another for their viewpoint on how the clubs run.

 

[Lynty]

The fan base is like any other fan base. It thinks it’s really special but mostly that’s not true.

Agreed

 

[kouroux]

SAF was a long time ago now, fortunate enough to have lived through it. It doesn't mean, if I hope for certain things to improve, that I'm entitled cnut. I don't ask for trophies tbh, just wanna enjoy football. That's not asking for the moon I think

 

[Zen86]

SAF was a long time ago now, fortunate enough to have lived through it. It doesn't mean, if I hope for certain things to improve, that I'm entitled cnut. I don't ask for trophies tbh, just wanna enjoy football. That's not asking for the moon I think

The difference is acknowledging we’ve made a long line of bad choices as a club going back nearly 10 years, and that no one can wave a magic wand to make that all go away overnight. Repeatedly crying out “we should be this” isn’t going to fix that. (I’m not accusing you of any of that for the record)

 

[morbidsaint]

I’ll also add a special mention to European clubs. In particular Inter, a link was posted from their forum on here and the post was about Conte after they got knocked out the CL..

This was it


http://forzainterforums.com/showthread.php?14703-Antonio-Conte/page355
What was amazing was nobody bat an eyelid, nobody called it out and the post is still there
If you ever see someone ranting 10 mins into a United game that Ole can’t coach, just open up that Inter page. Then you’ll see redcafe is like Disneyland.

feck did i just read.. And it doesnt even get taken down.. I wonder what the moderators over at that forum actually DO see as to far..

 

[kouroux]

The difference is acknowledging we’ve made a long line of bad choices as a club going back nearly 10 years, and that no one can wave a magic wand to make that all go away overnight. Repeatedly crying out “we should be this” isn’t going to fix that. (I’m not accusing you of any of that for the record)

I get you and I agree with your general assessment. I'm in the "Ole out" camp tbh but it doesn't mean I'm gonna root against him, criticize him at every opportunity, I know the job is incredibly tough.

 

[Foxbatt]

I guess most of you have never seen United before SAF? If so do not think you know about United. We have been this fanatic even long before he came to United. Even before he stopped playing for Rangers. The only time United stuck with a manager before SAF was with Sir Matt because he had so much power too. All other managers got sacked. I mean Doc got sacked for something that has nothing to do with football at all. It was on an ethical and moral issue. Between Sir Matt and SAF we had 5 managers and also a period of Sir Matt in between. We had won various cups in the meant time too. They were top British managers of that time. They did not complain about rebuilding etc. Just got on with the job knowing that this was one of the biggest club in the UK and the expectations were high and has to be high and the fans demanded it and they have to give it.
I remember a joke from Big Ron, especially after a poor game where he said even he was calling for the sacking of Ron Atkinson because it was so bad.
This was a big club that demanded the best all the times and now people have come in and accepted mediocrity? Demanding and accepting are two different things. We can demand and expect but not get it.

 

[carvajal]

Yes. We have the most toxic, entitled fanbase, by far.

We are so used to be spoiled by SAF, that we don't understand the meaning of support a struggling team. We have been struggling for less than 10 years, but as the latest report, our fanbase is getting smaller and smaller and smaller. Just see the stadium, it's mostly empty nowadays.

When Mourinho sits in 2nd place after winning Europa League we still have a lot of threads criticizing him. When Ole is only potentially 2 points of 1st place in December we still have a lot of threads criticizing him. Isn't those thread starters a clear sigh of a fake, terrible, entitled fan?

I also used to support Real Madrid, Barcelona, Bayern Munich (I actually only quit supporting Real during Barcelona domination period) and I can say for sure that their fanbase is much more forgiving and much less entitled. We should all learn from them.

 

[Giggs86]

Its a generation of United supporters that grew up under Ferguson and think that that is just how its supposed to be all the time.

And that we are in the same boat with Real Madrid and Bayern Munich - teams that are expected to win everything every season and that won't tolerate a season without Champions League or a title race. Clearly, we are not, but we could've been with a more competent and ambitious leadership.

 

[Robbie Boy]

I would say we have a-lot of very precious holier than thou fans. Not entirely sure if every fanbase has these types of fans.

 

[sparx99]

Mainly it’s two things. The internet in general just creates keyboard warrior types.

Secondly the bipolar nature of the team right now lends itself to creating two camps. Those who see the negative and those who see the positive.

Our highs and lows are so different it makes it hard for either camp to become convinced that we are getting better or worse.

 

[OrcaFat]

Every fan can say what they like, and where better than on an internet forum.

It does surprise me how many think we should win the league (every year) and any other result or expectation is a lowering of standards. I suppose Liverpool, Chelsea and Man City all feel the same (and can’t all be right).

I love football and I love Utd. I get depressed if we lose. But I don’t demand victory or launch a wild vendetta when we don’t win. It doesn’t make me a good or bad fan. Most of us are just blowing off steam anyway.

Still, a 25 year title drought does bring out some humility, which I like.

 

[OrcaFat]

Mainly it’s two things. The internet in general just creates keyboard warrior types.

Secondly the bipolar nature of the team right now lends itself to creating two camps. Those who see the negative and those who see the positive.

Our highs and lows are so different it makes it hard for either camp to become convinced that we are getting better or worse.

Yes that’s a good post. Sums it up pretty well.

 

[Robbie Boy]

Every fan can say what they like, and where better than on an internet forum.

It does surprise me how many think we should win the league (every year) and any other result or expectation is a lowering of standards. I suppose Liverpool, Chelsea and Man City all feel the same (and can’t all be right.

I love football and I love Utd. I get depressed if we lose. But I don’t demand victory or launch a wild vendetta when we don’t win. It doesn’t make me a good or bad fan. Most of us are just blowing off steam anyway.

Still, a 25 year title drought does bring out some humility, which I like.

I mean, is this a wind up? Demanding to win the league every season? We haven't won it in 7 years ffs

I wish people would stop making shit up on here lately. Both 'sides'.

 

[OrcaFat]

I mean, is this a wind up? Demanding to win the league every season? We haven't won it in 7 years ffs

I wish people would stop making shit up on here lately. Both 'sides'.

Did you think I meant you, bless.

 

[Robbie Boy]

Did you think I meant you, bless.

No

I just think you're making shit up.

 

[OrcaFat]

No

I just think you're making shit up.

That’s the way it is guv.

 

[Robbie Boy]

That’s the way it is guv.

Nah. You are making things up.

 

[Siorac]

The problem with these people is they think the MUFC ‘brand’ has this god given right to compete for all trophies, all the time. It’s the deluded mindset of “We’re Manchester United we should have high standards and win because we’re so big” that we laughed at Liverpool about for so many years.

This is where these the entitlement claims come from, quite rightly. Sadly I don’t think some have the capacity to grasp that it’s not the Fergie days any more, and it takes hard work to be successful.

You're saying that as if it's the fans who have to work hard for that success.

This is why the entitlement claims are always bogus: it's not like we can 'work hard' to achieve what we want. We can literally just sit around and talk about what we want. And if we believe that the people at the club don't work hard enough or effectively enough, we can say that they should be replaced.

These days fans can't even sing in the stadium so their capacity to 'work hard for success' is zero.

 

[Zen86]

You're saying that as if it's the fans who have to work hard for that success.

This is why the entitlement claims are always bogus: it's not like we can 'work hard' to achieve what we want. We can literally just sit around and talk about what we want. And if we believe that the people at the club don't work hard enough or effectively enough, we can say that they should be replaced.

These days fans can't even sing in the stadium so their capacity to 'work hard for success' is zero.

Obviously it’s not hard work on the fans’ part. When you **** things up as much as we have over the last 10 years, it takes a lot of hard work from the football club, the management, and the players to get back to a position of success. It doesn’t come overnight, and we’re in a much, much stronger position now than we were 3 or 4 years ago.