Is our fanbase the most entitled/ knee jerk toxic fanbase around?

[Le Red]

The problem with these people is they think the MUFC ‘brand’ has this god given right to compete for all trophies, all the time. It’s the deluded mindset of “We’re Manchester United we should have high standards and win because we’re so big” that we laughed at Liverpool about for so many years.

This is where these the entitlement claims come from, quite rightly. Sadly I don’t think some have the capacity to grasp that it’s not the Fergie days any more, and it takes hard work to be successful.

On the other hand, some people talk about MUFC as if it was a small time club that happened to stumble upon two mercurial managers and that's where all of our glory comes from. We don't have SAF anymore so we're back to "normal", which is mediocrity.
Most of the fans don't buy that. We're not a medium or even a "topish" club. MUFC is football royalty and the main reason it hasn't shown on the pitch for 7 years is our board doesn't care about results as long as the $$$ keeps flowing, combined with a lack of a football project and a supbar choice of managers.
MUFC, or any club, for what it's worth, doesn't have a God given right to win and be glorious, but if the club has the means to do so and it's failing due to a bunch of greedy and incompetent feckers, then the revolt of the fans is absolutely justified, and not a byproduct of entitlement.

 

[Zen86]

On the other hand, some people talk about MUFC as if it was a small time club that happened to stumble upon two mercurial managers and that's where all of our glory comes from. We don't have SAF anymore so we're back to "normal", which is mediocrity.
Most of the fans don't buy that. We're not a medium or even a "topish" club. MUFC is football royalty and the only reason we haven't had that reflect on the pitch for 7 years is the fact that our board doesn't care about results as long as the $$ keeps flowing, combined with a lack of a football project and a supbar choice of managers.
MUFC, or any club, for what it's worth, doesn't have a God given right to win and be glorious, but if the club has the means to do so, but it's failing due to a bunch of greedy and incompetent feckers, then the revolt of the fans is absolutely justified, and not a byproduct of entitlement.

I don’t think anyone has suggested us being anywhere close to a small time club. We’re obviously a big club, but that’s in name only n recent years. We’ve been a shambles both on and off the field since both Fergie and Gill left at the same time.

No point going into ownership really here, but we have spent money, just not very well.

Anyway, we’re going off on a tangent.

 

[OrcaFat]

On the other hand, some people talk about MUFC as if it was a small time club that happened to stumble upon two mercurial managers and that's where all of our glory comes from. We don't have SAF anymore so we're back to "normal", which is mediocrity.
Most of the fans don't buy that. We're not a medium or even a "topish" club. MUFC is football royalty and the main reason it hasn't shown on the pitch for 7 years is our board doesn't care about results as long as the $$$ keeps flowing, combined with a lack of a football project and a supbar choice of managers.
MUFC, or any club, for what it's worth, doesn't have a God given right to win and be glorious, but if the club has the means to do so and it's failing due to a bunch of greedy and incompetent feckers, then the revolt of the fans is absolutely justified, and not a byproduct of entitlement.

Some of us realise that we’re not entitled to automatically have the most competent staff. Sometimes other clubs get the best people.

 

[matt10000]

Ole is the man. Confidence and consistency will gradually improve this season as the squad evolves. Rome wasn’t built or rebuilt in a day but moat of goj werent watching in the 1970s

 

[Scholsey2004]

The correct answer is Real Madrid.

 

[Son]

Where did I ask that? And I imagine you also have the same feelings and expectations towards Klopp and Guardiola? And you are equally shocked why weren't they sacked when they didn't completely crush Fulham and Aston Villa, respectively, right?

Final question: do you think the goals we conceded against Istanbul away were due to tactical errors?

Not at all. Klopp and Guardiola at their best usually crushed those teams anyways and we have seen with history their teams have dominated. We have yet to do any such thing or prove much apart from we look pretty good. Time will tell but we have a lot of faults and positives too this season.

I expect us to score more than one goal in Turkey so at the end of the day yes there was obviously both players at fault for the goals and we got our tactical setup all wrong. That game was shocking.

I’m in a happy mood understandably with how he’s turned it around though. Long may it continue!

 

[lysglimt]

I guess most of you have never seen United before SAF? If so do not think you know about United. We have been this fanatic even long before he came to United. Even before he stopped playing for Rangers. The only time United stuck with a manager before SAF was with Sir Matt because he had so much power too. All other managers got sacked. I mean Doc got sacked for something that has nothing to do with football at all. It was on an ethical and moral issue. Between Sir Matt and SAF we had 5 managers and also a period of Sir Matt in between. We had won various cups in the meant time too. They were top British managers of that time. They did not complain about rebuilding etc. Just got on with the job knowing that this was one of the biggest club in the UK and the expectations were high and has to be high and the fans demanded it and they have to give it.
I remember a joke from Big Ron, especially after a poor game where he said even he was calling for the sacking of Ron Atkinson because it was so bad.
This was a big club that demanded the best all the times and now people have come in and accepted mediocrity? Demanding and accepting are two different things. We can demand and expect but not get it.

I am old enough to remember Big Ron (but not anything before that) - and what you are saying is partly correct, and partly incorrect. Yes United sacked managers, but what you fail to mention was that United didn't sack the majority of them after one season. And neither of them did particularly well apart from Big Ron for a little while.

Tommy Docherty was in charge of United for 4.5 years - and as you said got sacked for sleeping with the physios wife - and he even got us relegated. But in his last season in charge we lost 6 of the last 13 games and had a win percentage of 47 for his entire United-career. Docherty survived so long because people liked his playing style

Dave Sexton survived another 4 years - and let's be honest, he was awful by all standards. 81 wins in 201 matches - now that is 40% and in his last season in charge we scored 51 goals in 42 games. We didnt scored a goal in 17 out of 42 games.

Big Ron lifted the club mostly due to the signing of Bryan Robson, and stayed 5.5 years. Big Ron won exactly 50% of our matches - and we scored a lot more goals than we did under Sexton.

So when you say that they did not complain about rebuilding - they didnt have to because even with mediocre results, they were given time to rebuild. A lot of time. Sexton had poor results, played awful football, was hated by the fans, got rid of some of the most popular players and had one really good season at United where we came 2nd. The other 3 seasons we ended 10th, 9th and 8th. So I do find it a bit strange that you say that the fans demanded excellence - no they didn't. Unite d accepted ended 10th and 9th in the first 2 seasons under Sexton

United-fans started to demand excellence after Ferguson - but only after we had accepted 5 years of being fairly crap under Ferguson. The first time fans really turned against Ferguson was in the winter of 89/90 - after we had spent a fortune on new players (Webb, Phelan, Ince, Pallister and Wallace) and played the worst football in the post-Busby era. We were 17th in the table and looked like we could get relegated - after picking up 5 points from 11 games.

So I do find it a bit strange that you say that this club now accepts mediocrity - when mediocrity for you is finishing 3rd last season, and being near the top of the table this season after picking up 19 points from 21. What we did under Sexton, Docherty, Atkinson and early Ferguson-days - now that was mediocrity - and both the club and fans accepted it. Different era, different expectations. Today being 3rd is considered mediocrity.

 

[georgipep]

Not at all. Klopp and Guardiola at their best usually crushed those teams anyways and we have seen with history their teams have dominated. We have yet to do any such thing or prove much apart from we look pretty good. Time will tell but we have a lot of faults and positives too this season.

I expect us to score more than one goal in Turkey so at the end of the day yes there was obviously both players at fault for the goals and we got our tactical setup all wrong. That game was shocking.

I’m in a happy mood understandably with how he’s turned it around though. Long may it continue!

So, we are yet to do it apart from when we look pretty good? And City and Liverpool do it apart from when they don't look pretty good? Do you even hear your argument?

 

[Striker10]

No but I think success has spoilt some. Could you imagine our supporters booing Ronaldo?

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

I am old enough to remember Big Ron (but not anything before that) - and what you are saying is partly correct, and partly incorrect. Yes United sacked managers, but what you fail to mention was that United didn't sack the majority of them after one season. And neither of them did particularly well apart from Big Ron for a little while.

Tommy Docherty was in charge of United for 4.5 years - and as you said got sacked for sleeping with the physios wife - and he even got us relegated. But in his last season in charge we lost 6 of the last 13 games and had a win percentage of 47 for his entire United-career. Docherty survived so long because people liked his playing style

Dave Sexton survived another 4 years - and let's be honest, he was awful by all standards. 81 wins in 201 matches - now that is 40% and in his last season in charge we scored 51 goals in 42 games. We didnt scored a goal in 17 out of 42 games.

Big Ron lifted the club mostly due to the signing of Bryan Robson, and stayed 5.5 years. Big Ron won exactly 50% of our matches - and we scored a lot more goals than we did under Sexton.

So when you say that they did not complain about rebuilding - they didnt have to because even with mediocre results, they were given time to rebuild. A lot of time. Sexton had poor results, played awful football, was hated by the fans, got rid of some of the most popular players and had one really good season at United where we came 2nd. The other 3 seasons we ended 10th, 9th and 8th. So I do find it a bit strange that you say that the fans demanded excellence - no they didn't. Unite d accepted ended 10th and 9th in the first 2 seasons under Sexton

United-fans started to demand excellence after Ferguson - but only after we had accepted 5 years of being fairly crap under Ferguson. The first time fans really turned against Ferguson was in the winter of 89/90 - after we had spent a fortune on new players (Webb, Phelan, Ince, Pallister and Wallace) and played the worst football in the post-Busby era. We were 17th in the table and looked like we could get relegated - after picking up 5 points from 11 games.

So I do find it a bit strange that you say that this club now accepts mediocrity - when mediocrity for you is finishing 3rd last season, and being near the top of the table this season after picking up 19 points from 21. What we did under Sexton, Docherty, Atkinson and early Ferguson-days - now that was mediocrity - and both the club and fans accepted it. Different era, different expectations. Today being 3rd is considered mediocrity.

good post. Nice to read the review of previous managers. Like you, I remember Big Ron, but nothing before.

 

[Web of Bissaka]

I guess most of you have never seen United before SAF? If so do not think you know about United. We have been this fanatic even long before he came to United. Even before he stopped playing for Rangers. The only time United stuck with a manager before SAF was with Sir Matt because he had so much power too. All other managers got sacked. I mean Doc got sacked for something that has nothing to do with football at all. It was on an ethical and moral issue. Between Sir Matt and SAF we had 5 managers and also a period of Sir Matt in between. We had won various cups in the meant time too. They were top British managers of that time. They did not complain about rebuilding etc. Just got on with the job knowing that this was one of the biggest club in the UK and the expectations were high and has to be high and the fans demanded it and they have to give it.
I remember a joke from Big Ron, especially after a poor game where he said even he was calling for the sacking of Ron Atkinson because it was so bad.
This was a big club that demanded the best all the times and now people have come in and accepted mediocrity? Demanding and accepting are two different things. We can demand and expect but not get it.

This.

From what many people are saying, it's like this demanding high standards thing is only after SAF. No, it's already started before him. That's the perk of being a top club after the work of Busby. Fans complained and demanded more from all the post-Busby managers and they, the managers themselves even readily admitted it and accepted the high demands and criticisms. Even Fergie got his fair share of criticisms and demands.

We can and should demand more from the club and team, but we can also accept the fact that they are at this low level where they are now. So? we're expecting them to try get better and improve, not content with this low level. Why accept and stop demanding more? That I never understood why we should do that at all as a United fan. Not saying everyone should think the same way, I get everyone are different and think differently.

Expecting a top club to behave like a top club at both management and especially football levels are reasonable. Else, that club is no longer a top club like Leeds... are there even anyone even their fans expecting them to win the league? no way. Or Arsenal? no way their fans expect them to win PL nor CL right? the expectation is lowered to only do well and remain top 4 or was it top 6 now? The believes have gone, as does the expectations and demands.

 

[lysglimt]

This.

From what many people are saying, it's like this demanding high standards thing is only after SAF. No, it's already started before him. That's the perk of being a top club after the work of Busby. Fans complained and demanded more from all the post-Busby managers and they, the managers themselves even readily admitted it and accepted the high demands and criticisms. Even Fergie got his fair share of criticisms and demands.

We can and should demand more from the club and team, but we can also accept the fact that they are at this low level where they are now. So? we're expecting them to try get better and improve, not content with this low level. Why accept and stop demanding more? That I never understood why we should do that at all as a United fan. Not saying everyone should think the same way, I get everyone are different and think differently.

Expecting a top club to behave like a top club at both management and especially football levels are reasonable. Else, that club is no longer a top club like Leeds... are there even anyone even their fans expecting them to win the league? no way. Or Arsenal? no way their fans expect them to win PL nor CL right? the expectation is lowered to only do well and remain top 4 or was it top 6 now? The believes have gone, as does the expectations and demands.

There is also something called being realistic. Not a single manager in the world could take the team we had in november 2018 to be champions 1.5 years later without spending an insane amount of money, it couldn't be done. Ferguson never did with United, Pep never did with City and Klopp never did with Liverpool.

For the first time in 7 years - I generally feel we are going in the right direction. Could a better manager have taken us there slightly faster - yes probably. But after watching Moyes, LvG and Mourinho tear this club to shreds with their stupid decisions - I am prepared to be a bit patient. There are people saying that OGS isn't the right person - ok, name one manager available that is guaranteed to do a better job ? No one feels top 4 is where we should be - but sometimes you have to take one step at a time. We are up against a pretty spectacular Liverpool-side - one of the best 3 sides the P.L has ever seen. We were 33 points behind them last season - it's unrealistic to expect us to close that gap in one season. I am not saying it can't be done, but chances are extremely small.

Realistically we shall use this season to close the gap - the club should back the manager heavily in the summer - and 2021/22 will be the season when we mount a proper title challenge. Then we can talk about expectations and demands.

 

[Giggsyking]

Stupid thread. Go see Real Madrid if they dont win major trophies for 2 years, even worse go see them booing Ronaldo. See Munich fans and board Sacking managers after few months because they are not top of the league. There are fans that wants to be up there with Madrid and Munich, and there are the "top reds". It has been 8 years since we won the league and 13 years since we won the CL.

 

[el_loco_bielsa]

If I had a penny for everytime the phrase ‘knee-jerk’ is used on a football forum somewhere in this country, I’d be a very rich man.

OP, all football fans everywhere are tribal, reflexive, volatile, emotional, one-eyed, prejudiced about other club fans, deem themselves to be both the most loyal and most disloyal fans everywhere, use pointless epithets as ‘greatest fans in the world’, vilify other club fans without any sense of irony whilst clapping or condoning the same behaviour in their own fans, etc etc etc.

This thread being a prime example of all the behaviour described above. At least be grateful that your fans haven’t yet descended to the depths plumbed by Real Madrid socios and Barca cules who have made a tradition of waving 100,000 white hankies when their team is at their lowest.

 

[UnitedSofa]

I don't remember writing this thread

 

[Crashoutcassius]

I'd love to do a dual poll in here and have done one a year ago.

Which is closer to the truth

1. Ole has spent poorly on AWB / Maguire / James / Donny / telles OR this squad should challenge for the title

2. Woodword and the owners are holding the club back OR ole has everything he needs that winning the title should be the requirement to keep his job this year

Pretty sure the narrative has shifted between these two poles all through the 2020 as people were happy to criticize the squad but can't explain results without saying that ole should be winning titles with this team

 

[Son]

So, we are yet to do it apart from when we look pretty good? And City and Liverpool do it apart from when they don't look pretty good? Do you even hear your argument?

You will argue me on any point right now so I really can’t be bothered.

Team is looking pretty good but we haven’t proved anything. End of the day you prove things with trophies and consistency and yes Pool and City have shown that last few years. Gotta respect their ridiculous points tally’s. Hopefully we are on the way towards that in the future. That’s the end of our convo.

 

[Isotope]

Anyone who claim to know the answer is just a plain liar.

There are millions of United fans, and millions of other teams fans. How can you know them all to compare us and them?

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

Anyone who claim to know the answer is just a plain liar.

There are millions of United fans, and millions of other teams fans. How can you know them all to compare us and them?

it’s called having an opinion.

if everything has to be factual, then we might as well just talk about what the weather each day, and that’s it.

It’s wet in London this morning.

 

[FattyFooty]

We are not, not even close.

We do have some reason for frustration, and yeah the "Maguire is worst CB in history" screams are annoying or the "Ole have no clue" are pretty stupid to.

But then, we had some very weak moments, we started this CL campaign with wins over PSG and trashing Leipzig. Yet we somehow went out of the CL. Our main striker/attacker who gets so much praise from us scored he's 50th goal this weekend. In over 150 games. Just right over 40 goals from open play in 5 years.

While we cry and scream a lot, these things would just not been accepted by the fans or the board in the other big clubs.

 

[debunkology]

most of us know that the match day thread should be avoided, as it’s pretty horrible.

Go to most football fan forums and you will see the same thing.

Football fan culture is known to be fickle. Arguably the most fickle sport, maybe boxing beats it.

 

[Bobcat]

Entitled and knee jerk? There are those who are worse. RM fans for example

Toxic? Not even close. That dubious honor goes to Italian football fans

 

[TrustInJanuzaj]

I think some of them are and also amongst the most clueless at times. The way people judge and rate Martial and Pogba says a lot about that.

 

[sokol11]

I think some of them are and also amongst the most clueless at times. The way people judge and rate Martial and Pogba says a lot about that.

Some were building up Martial after Leeds game. What did he show vs. Leicester? Nothing that's right. As soon as he left the pitch we scored the second.

 

[TrustInJanuzaj]

Some were building up Martial after Leeds game. What did he show vs. Leicester? Nothing that's right. As soon as he left the pitch we scored the second.

Case and point...

 

[lex talionis]

I actually enjoy the match day threads here. There are plenty of posts I disagree with that could be described as “toxic”, but so what?

 

[MikeKing]

I actually enjoy the match day threads here. There are plenty of posts I disagree with that could be described as “toxic”, but so what?

If I may. What do you enjoy about them? I never scroll through those anymore and never truly did, so I'm genuinely interested in what makes someone enjoy those threads.

Personally I've avoided doing other things while watching a game of football, it's supposed to be an escape and if I can't immerse myself in the game it would be pointless.

 

[Robbie Boy]

The stauch Ole in/out camps are toxic but the rest are awesome.

 

[el3mel]

I honestly don't understand the complaints about match day threads here in general, do people check them in other clubs forums? For example yesterday I decided to check on Everton forum during their match with Sheffield and it was exactly the same as here, reactionary posts and slaughtering the tea till the goal came. These threads are supposed to be reactionary, there's no problem to solve regarding them.

 

[R'hllor]

Both sides should feck off but personally, its easier to deal with toxic bunch, at least they are real about their hate and negativity, on other hand you have to deal with delusional bunch similar to freaking Ty, insecure to the bone, anything slight non over positive on their level is an issue and negative.

 

[R'hllor]

I honestly don't understand the complaints about match day threads here in general, do people check them in other clubs forums? For example yesterday I decided to check on Everton forum during their match with Sheffield and it was exactly the same as here, reactionary posts and slaughtering the tea till the goal came. These threads are supposed to be reactionary, there's no problem to solve regarding them.

Do people want something to happen with match day threads or?

 

[JanK]

Well, what's going on in Real Madrid forums during the last decade?

 

[Leftback99]

Remember the knee jerk reactions when we only beat WBA 1-0. They've now taken points off Liverpool, City and Chelsea.

 

[Foxbatt]

Everyone knew that we would get relegated. In reality the back heel by Denis had nothing to do with it. We were relegated no matter what. That was the real rebuilding that Doc had to do. Not what Jose or LVG did or Ole is doing now. That was an end of an era. Not after SAF because even when SAF left we had a good team. Even when Jose left we had a good team.
As for this story about other managers, Doc was sacked because on a personal work place matter. Ethical issue of course. He was a good manager of the football team. Dave Sexton was one of the best managers during his time and that was why he was appointed. He was terribly boring. Like LVG without his credentials. We should have won the FA cup against Arsenal and he was sacked rightly so just like LVG.
Big Ron was unlucky in the Cup Winners Cup. I was there that night in 84 when we beat Maradona and Barca. I have never seen anything like that at OT and never the noise. Not even later during the days of SAF and the victories in the CL matches.

Most people have no idea how big we were even then. We had the best attendances even when we were in the 2nd Division. No one in the first division had our attendance figures. Those days there was not much TV money and certainly no satellite tv etc.
I remember vividly a game against Coventry where Robbo and Big Ron was slated non stop by the fans. Robbo even looked at some fans who were berating him as he came to do a throw in.
What happens in real life and expectations are two different issues.

 

[Hammondo]

On the other hand, some people talk about MUFC as if it was a small time club that happened to stumble upon two mercurial managers and that's where all of our glory comes from. We don't have SAF anymore so we're back to "normal", which is mediocrity.
Most of the fans don't buy that. We're not a medium or even a "topish" club. MUFC is football royalty and the main reason it hasn't shown on the pitch for 7 years is our board doesn't care about results as long as the $$$ keeps flowing, combined with a lack of a football project and a supbar choice of managers.
MUFC, or any club, for what it's worth, doesn't have a God given right to win and be glorious, but if the club has the means to do so and it's failing due to a bunch of greedy and incompetent feckers, then the revolt of the fans is absolutely justified, and not a byproduct of entitlement.

I disagree with the first part. Football royality is nonsense, as explained by your own latter part. We don't have a football philosophy, or understanding throughout our club like say Barcelona or Bayern. Our top managers were lucky guesses. Just look at the managers we have taken since SAF, not at all related in any way. We are simply hoping for the best without any plan or footballing knowledge/philosophy behind it.

We are throwing money at the team, that's why we are getting the positions we have been. Smaller clubs do much better with what they have.

 

[Hammondo]

I honestly don't understand the complaints about match day threads here in general, do people check them in other clubs forums? For example yesterday I decided to check on Everton forum during their match with Sheffield and it was exactly the same as here, reactionary posts and slaughtering the tea till the goal came. These threads are supposed to be reactionary, there's no problem to solve regarding them.

Very true. I have checked other forums when United players have gone to them, just the same. Some smaller clubs forums are more chill and hopefull, but generally the same in the end.

 

[Hammondo]

I am old enough to remember Big Ron (but not anything before that) - and what you are saying is partly correct, and partly incorrect. Yes United sacked managers, but what you fail to mention was that United didn't sack the majority of them after one season. And neither of them did particularly well apart from Big Ron for a little while.

Tommy Docherty was in charge of United for 4.5 years - and as you said got sacked for sleeping with the physios wife - and he even got us relegated. But in his last season in charge we lost 6 of the last 13 games and had a win percentage of 47 for his entire United-career. Docherty survived so long because people liked his playing style

Dave Sexton survived another 4 years - and let's be honest, he was awful by all standards. 81 wins in 201 matches - now that is 40% and in his last season in charge we scored 51 goals in 42 games. We didnt scored a goal in 17 out of 42 games.

Big Ron lifted the club mostly due to the signing of Bryan Robson, and stayed 5.5 years. Big Ron won exactly 50% of our matches - and we scored a lot more goals than we did under Sexton.

So when you say that they did not complain about rebuilding - they didnt have to because even with mediocre results, they were given time to rebuild. A lot of time. Sexton had poor results, played awful football, was hated by the fans, got rid of some of the most popular players and had one really good season at United where we came 2nd. The other 3 seasons we ended 10th, 9th and 8th. So I do find it a bit strange that you say that the fans demanded excellence - no they didn't. Unite d accepted ended 10th and 9th in the first 2 seasons under Sexton

United-fans started to demand excellence after Ferguson - but only after we had accepted 5 years of being fairly crap under Ferguson. The first time fans really turned against Ferguson was in the winter of 89/90 - after we had spent a fortune on new players (Webb, Phelan, Ince, Pallister and Wallace) and played the worst football in the post-Busby era. We were 17th in the table and looked like we could get relegated - after picking up 5 points from 11 games.

So I do find it a bit strange that you say that this club now accepts mediocrity - when mediocrity for you is finishing 3rd last season, and being near the top of the table this season after picking up 19 points from 21. What we did under Sexton, Docherty, Atkinson and early Ferguson-days - now that was mediocrity - and both the club and fans accepted it. Different era, different expectations. Today being 3rd is considered mediocrity.

Great post.

 

[RUCK4444]

On the other hand, some people talk about MUFC as if it was a small time club that happened to stumble upon two mercurial managers and that's where all of our glory comes from. We don't have SAF anymore so we're back to "normal", which is mediocrity.
Most of the fans don't buy that. We're not a medium or even a "topish" club. MUFC is football royalty and the main reason it hasn't shown on the pitch for 7 years is our board doesn't care about results as long as the $$$ keeps flowing, combined with a lack of a football project and a supbar choice of managers.
MUFC, or any club, for what it's worth, doesn't have a God given right to win and be glorious, but if the club has the means to do so and it's failing due to a bunch of greedy and incompetent feckers, then the revolt of the fans is absolutely justified, and not a byproduct of entitlement.

This is where many go wrong, we don’t deserve anything, a team at the bottom of the pile have as much right to win trophies as Manchester United does.

25 years of a godlike manager has let us feel entitled. It skews the reality for many fans.

Being accepting of the reality does not mean you have to lower the bar as a club, what it does mean is that it will take as long as it takes to get back to where we want to be.
All we can do as fans is acknowledge progress and back the team and manager as long as we have that.

Nobody here knows how long it should take. There is no fixed time scale and it involves many variables, not least when you repeatedly change managers and effectively reset the process.

 

[Jonno]

I am old enough to remember Big Ron (but not anything before that) - and what you are saying is partly correct, and partly incorrect. Yes United sacked managers, but what you fail to mention was that United didn't sack the majority of them after one season. And neither of them did particularly well apart from Big Ron for a little while.

Tommy Docherty was in charge of United for 4.5 years - and as you said got sacked for sleeping with the physios wife - and he even got us relegated. But in his last season in charge we lost 6 of the last 13 games and had a win percentage of 47 for his entire United-career. Docherty survived so long because people liked his playing style

Dave Sexton survived another 4 years - and let's be honest, he was awful by all standards. 81 wins in 201 matches - now that is 40% and in his last season in charge we scored 51 goals in 42 games. We didnt scored a goal in 17 out of 42 games.

Big Ron lifted the club mostly due to the signing of Bryan Robson, and stayed 5.5 years. Big Ron won exactly 50% of our matches - and we scored a lot more goals than we did under Sexton.

So when you say that they did not complain about rebuilding - they didnt have to because even with mediocre results, they were given time to rebuild. A lot of time. Sexton had poor results, played awful football, was hated by the fans, got rid of some of the most popular players and had one really good season at United where we came 2nd. The other 3 seasons we ended 10th, 9th and 8th. So I do find it a bit strange that you say that the fans demanded excellence - no they didn't. Unite d accepted ended 10th and 9th in the first 2 seasons under Sexton

United-fans started to demand excellence after Ferguson - but only after we had accepted 5 years of being fairly crap under Ferguson. The first time fans really turned against Ferguson was in the winter of 89/90 - after we had spent a fortune on new players (Webb, Phelan, Ince, Pallister and Wallace) and played the worst football in the post-Busby era. We were 17th in the table and looked like we could get relegated - after picking up 5 points from 11 games.

So I do find it a bit strange that you say that this club now accepts mediocrity - when mediocrity for you is finishing 3rd last season, and being near the top of the table this season after picking up 19 points from 21. What we did under Sexton, Docherty, Atkinson and early Ferguson-days - now that was mediocrity - and both the club and fans accepted it. Different era, different expectations. Today being 3rd is considered mediocrity.

Brilliant post. Thanks for sharing and I hope every knee-jerker reads this every time we drop points.

 

[Hammondo]

This is where many go wrong, we don’t deserve anything, a team at the bottom of the pile have as much right to win trophies as Manchester United does.

25 years of a godlike manager has let us feel entitled. It skews the reality for many fans.

Being accepting of the reality does not mean you have to lower the bar as a club, what it does mean is that it will take as long as it takes to get back to where we want to be.
All we can do as fans is acknowledge progress and back the team and manager as long as we have that.

Nobody here knows how long it should take. There is no fixed time scale and it involves many variables, not least when you repeatedly change managers and effectively reset the process.

Great post.