It is not that time changes the perception. It shows how pathetic our midfield is now. That midfield has won the PL and got to the Finals of the CL. Ando and Park is better than anyone bar Pogba that we have now. Pre season could be anything. So far McTominay has not shown anything that he can dominate the midfield. Anderson has dominated the top midfield in the PL during certain stages in his career at United. He may have lost his form and got sold but when he was good he was good.
Is our Midfield that Bad?
- Thread starter Rossa
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
Would you not agree, being his first season in england, and during the season changing manager and going from a toxic style of play, that invited pressure, which I think we all can agree, doesnt suit Freds skill set.
I definatley believe Fred is one of the ones that deserve this second chance under Ole, especially as our style of play with quick forward passes and pressing will suits his game much more, not to dissimilar to his Shakhtar team.
Whilst i agree Midfield is our weakest are, i believe it is better, depth wise, than the likes od Arsenal, Chelsea and Spurs, and to an extent liverpool
If he can't handle receiving the ball under pressure and not making a mistake then he's in the wrong league. Think it was back in September it looked pretty clear to me that having both Pogba and Fred in a midfield wouldn't work as both give the ball away far too much. You can get away with it when it's just one player, but when two do it then it becomes a real issue.
Tottenham shits on our midfield now tbh. Winks, NDombele, Sissoko, Eriksen and Alli would all be starters for us. I haven't seen enough of Lo Celso to judge him properly yet. The only one who wouldn't start for us is Wanyama and thats only due to him being fairly injury prone in the last two seasons.
Agree to an extent with Arsenal, Chelsea though.
Yes , not a starter for sure but he's a good plan B off the bench. We could've used his aerial presence in midfield at times.
Problem is if pogba is injured or out or out of form there is no game changing substitute. Or second creative player. Starting 11 is not an that much issue
Please don't secrets here. Please tell us what reason you have to believe Matic will improve.
You cant rely on Pogba this year. Who knows where his head will be but he only ever seems to play well when he's fired up - which he wont be.
So whats the Midfield 3/4??
3 Man - Matic, Pogba, Mata?/Fred?
4 Man - Matic, Pogba, James, Mata/Fred?
Thats not good. We miss Hererra already, and we have seriously messed up not getting Fernandes in. Its a disastrous window for us and our midfield is hot garbage.
So whats the Midfield 3/4??
3 Man - Matic, Pogba, Mata?/Fred?
4 Man - Matic, Pogba, James, Mata/Fred?
Thats not good. We miss Hererra already, and we have seriously messed up not getting Fernandes in. Its a disastrous window for us and our midfield is hot garbage.
I guess that is something I can agree on, but on the other hand, in the champions league for Shakhtar, he seemed to be able to turn out of trouble fairl well with a quick turn of pace. I think im more hoping there is more in his locker, but could be proved wrong, you make some valid points.
Regarding Spurs, i think most believe Eriksen will be gone before the full window shuts, which takes away the best midfielder. Taking that into consideration, and also I rate Scott around the same as winks, in terms of what they will bring to the team in their respective roles. Lo Celso, if im not mistaken, has alreacy struggled once at a big club (psg) and is of unknown quality in the premier league, same with ndombele, although i have high expectations for him, but also expect a poor mans pogba. And surely sissokos high energy game will slowly phase out with age, so i wouldnt say its as clear cut as spurs being miles ahead.
Spot on
About this 4-2-3-1 dual pivot. Could you start with?:
AWB -- Linderof -- Maguire -- Shaw
-------- Garner -- McTominay
Greenwood -- Pogba -- Martial
-------------- Rashford
Similar to formation we already played with Matic replaced by Garner.
AWB -- Linderof -- Maguire -- Shaw
-------- Garner -- McTominay
Greenwood -- Pogba -- Martial
-------------- Rashford
Similar to formation we already played with Matic replaced by Garner.
They must be pretty confident Pogba isn't going to cause a fuss up to the close of the European transfer window, and then not have a hissy fit afterwards, as without him firing on all cylinders I just don't see how we can compete.
You're relying on a lot of kids. You'll win nothing with kids!
It's OK, very thin though. 1-2 injures and we're in trouble.
We lack consistency, genuine top class and depth mainly. I think we’ve got a decent midfield, it’s whether all 3 can stay fit and play to a high level over a full season. I’m happy for McTominay, Pereira and Pogba to start most games.
He's confusing reason with hope. There's no reason to believe he'll improve, there's plenty of reason to believe he'll get worse.
He might improve, it's not impossible, but that's an off chance against expectation and probability.
What objective would you set for Garner to pass, such that he's rewarded with a PL start? How about get 15 points out of 18 in 6 EFL Trophy /FA cup / Europa League / League Cup matches? Is six competitive matches played against men a proper test?You're relying on a lot of kids. You'll win nothing with kids!
I think Ole already promoted Greenwood to the match day squad based on his games last year, selling Lukaku with no replacement, and trying of offload Sanchez.
Just let me see this midfield for 1 half, Ole.
---Pogba-------Gomes
---------Garner
---Pogba-------Gomes
---------Garner
Last season it wasn't good enough and now I can only imagine it being worse. We need Pogba to play at his very best consistently, if he can do that then our midfield isn't a disaster. Its the games when he doesn't turn up that worry me or when hes injured/rested. So our midfield really depends on Pogba and there are question marks if he even wants to be here.
3 5 2 Degea
Lindelof McGuire Smalling
Wanb Mctominay Fred Shaw
Pogba
Rashford Martial
Lindelof McGuire Smalling
Wanb Mctominay Fred Shaw
Pogba
Rashford Martial
I'd be more comfortable if it was Plan E
Yes it is. It was shite last season, so how it could be much better this year? There is not enough legs and not enough creativity. We are like Pirlo + Gattuso far from good. Which is very very far. And Pogba's attitude is huge questionmark. AND it is very thin, 1-2 injuries and that's it...
I still find it hard to believe we did nothing in bringing in even one midfielder.
Even with Pogba we needed two.
Even with Pogba we needed two.
Pretty much the same issue for the attack, at least we got a shit load of defenders!
Sorry meant load of shit defenders
Not as if there weren't good players available as well. Two good ones on show today in Rodri and Ndombele. Gueye another one.
The key to all of that will be the coaching from OGS I feel. Our midfielders have to perform better individually and as a unit.
I at least believe there is potential in Rashford, Martial, Gomes and Greenwood. Not guarantee about anything but i have not lost hope with attack. But midfield screams for creativity, legs, depth and motivation (Pogba). So how it could work very well?
And this is the problem Solskjaer doesn't have any meaningful credentials as a coach. He's not got a recognised system, philosophy or aura to his team's. Solskjaer needs a better quality of players to spear a successful league campaign.
Maybe he can prove many wrong though who knows
Coaching can only do so much. If the individual players do not have the talent and the ability then no matter how much they try it would not be enough. I do not know why some people think that McTominay is such a good player? He has done nothing much that most other midfield players in the PL have not done. He is just a decent player. We need much more than decent players to win trophies.
Liverpool's defence is better than ours. At least last season. Their attack is better than ours and their midfield apart from Pogba is better than ours.
Liverpool's defence is better than ours. At least last season. Their attack is better than ours and their midfield apart from Pogba is better than ours.
I am afraid of that too but I guess we will know soon enough. Liverpool is often as an example but Klopp is a very good manager and motivator
From now till January at least, coaching will have to work wonders
So i guess you didn’t buy into the rebuild takes time then. You expect to challenge now. How players have developed and how much time to implement a new style, and let’s not forget how out of gas they looked last year, only time will tell. Might be more fun to find things to build on rather than moan? Even before a ball is kicked? The midfield lacked cohesion last year. Maybe they are better for it now? Maybe even Matic is in better shape? Will be fun to watch the next few weeks. And then there is another window in a few months. And another one. And another one...
Giggs thinks we're short there too, which we obviously are.
https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11667/11782185/giggs-united-need-more-midfielders
Unless virtually every player steps up I think this could be a big problem.
https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11667/11782185/giggs-united-need-more-midfielders
Unless virtually every player steps up I think this could be a big problem.
Jesus how miserable can you get.
We once had Miller, Smith, O'Shea, Fletcher and Giggs as CMs.
We're clearly going to need a CM or two by next summer at least. The challenge is there for our midfielders this year to show something. Fred, McTominay, Pereira. I'm looking forward to seeing what they can offer.
Part of me thinks if Maguire is CB, he'll be there on the defense. However, when we have possession he might push up a bit further into the DM role, giving 3 at the back and offering a bit more support. I never realised how far up he plays - he loves to play in the opponents half.
Yes. The team was screaming for a passer from deep allowing Pogba to operate higher up. Obvious to a blind man in pitch black night.
First of all our MF has been neglected for almost a decade, with no value in the market, asking pensioner to play for another season or 2. Then we recruited a few Schxxxxx who hardly feature in day to day business,. Matic-Herrera-Pogba was probably the 1st stable and effective partnership in a decade.
Last season we lost 2 MF, may be even 2.5 if you consider Matic's drop in performance, and with Pogba AWOL-ish, we are talking about wholesale rebuild, and yet our only recognised MF is McTom.
Our only hope is McTom suddenly becoming a Kante, Perreira or Fred suddenly turn into a Eriksen, then who cares about Pogba.
Last season we lost 2 MF, may be even 2.5 if you consider Matic's drop in performance, and with Pogba AWOL-ish, we are talking about wholesale rebuild, and yet our only recognised MF is McTom.
Our only hope is McTom suddenly becoming a Kante, Perreira or Fred suddenly turn into a Eriksen, then who cares about Pogba.
Our midfield itself isn't particularly bad with Pogba and Mctominay, it's just combined with the attack it's pretty average.
Everton for example could put out
Iwobi - Mosie Kean - Richarlison
Andre Gomes - Schniederlin - Sigurdsson
Which on paper is pretty similar quality wise to
Martial - Rashford - Lingard
Mctominay - Pogba - Mata/Fred/Perriera
We've strenghthened defence which is good, but the reality is that our front 6 is closer in terms of quality to the likes of Wolves and Everton than it is to City, Spurs or Liverpool. I think there's a real possibility one of those teams makes a serious push into the top 6 this season.
Everton for example could put out
Iwobi - Mosie Kean - Richarlison
Andre Gomes - Schniederlin - Sigurdsson
Which on paper is pretty similar quality wise to
Martial - Rashford - Lingard
Mctominay - Pogba - Mata/Fred/Perriera
We've strenghthened defence which is good, but the reality is that our front 6 is closer in terms of quality to the likes of Wolves and Everton than it is to City, Spurs or Liverpool. I think there's a real possibility one of those teams makes a serious push into the top 6 this season.