Is Poch really the answer?

Enigma_87

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I think Pochettino is a pretty guaranteed way to be looking for another manager again in 2-3 years.

Although as long as Woodward is doing what he does we won't get any manager who won't come under that category, because any manager with ambitions and the ability to do better would be smart enough not to come here.

We only got Jose because he was basically obsessed with managing United just so it was on his CV
I'm not sure about that. With United you have plenty of resources, along lower expectations compared to anywhere else. You don't have the same level of interference from Woodward compared to Levy or Real and we're still a top club that is a sleeping giant - if a certain manager can improve us he will be very highly regarded. If he fails he can still land another top job if he has build a credible resume before United - hell even Moyes landed Sociedad, WH and Sunderland easily.

It's a nice place to be whilst also collecting a fat paycheck. A non brainer for all top managers.
 

AFC NimbleThumb

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I think he understands what a United should be and the qualities needed. Assuming if we do want a DoF that would open the door for the DoF to be able to bring those players in.
We really have become Liverpool of yesteryear.
 

noodlehair

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I'm not sure about that. With United you have plenty of resources, along lower expectations compared to anywhere else. You don't have the same level of interference from Woodward compared to Levy or Real and we're still a top club that is a sleeping giant - if a certain manager can improve us he will be very highly regarded. If he fails he can still land another top job if he has build a credible resume before United - hell even Moyes landed Sociedad, WH and Sunderland easily.

It's a nice place to be whilst also collecting a fat paycheck. A non brainer for all top managers.
Top managers want to win things and can get their big pay check wherever they decide to go. They don't tend to settle for taking jobs where they will not be allwoed the resource to succeed and as a result end up being painted as a failure.

Remember that United tried to get Klopp and he turned them down essentially because he didn't Woodward's idea of how things would work.

Spurs haven't really been doing anything that would be considered a success at United so I don't think there's much of a comparison there. The difference I can see is that at Spurs Jose has more freedom to manager the players. At United he couldn't even drop Pogba or treat him the same as the rest of the team without interference, presumably because Pogba is important to the marketing revenue.
 

Lash

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I think Pochettino is a pretty guaranteed way to be looking for another manager again in 2-3 years.

Although as long as Woodward is doing what he does we won't get any manager who won't come under that category, because any manager with ambitions and the ability to do better would be smart enough not to come here.

We only got Jose because he was basically obsessed with managing United just so it was on his CV
Whilst I agree with the general Woodward being the issue, the summer signings and stacking the academy with oodles of talent has probably given someone the best chance of succeeding here if they came in now. We've shifted a couple of the deadwood and they'd just need to finish off the job.

I think someone like Poch would love to work with the talent of Greenwood, Rashford, Bruno and Martial. Not to mention having lads like Elanga, Mejbri, Diallo, Pellestri, Tuanzebe, Mengi to mould into top players
 

Enigma_87

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Top managers want to win things and can get their big pay check wherever they decide to go. They don't tend to settle for taking jobs where they will not be allwoed the resource to succeed and as a result end up being painted as a failure.

Remember that United tried to get Klopp and he turned them down essentially because he didn't Woodward's idea of how things would work.

Spurs haven't really been doing anything that would be considered a success at United so I don't think there's much of a comparison there. The difference I can see is that at Spurs Jose has more freedom to manager the players. At United he couldn't even drop Pogba or treat him the same as the rest of the team without interference, presumably because Pogba is important to the marketing revenue.
That's the thing though. All managers have been backed on the transfer market. We spent hundreds of millions. Yes you can make a claim that Jose didn't receive full support, but who does? Real didn't spent a penny this Summer and have proven in the past that players are bigger than the manager and marketing value plays big part in recruitment and also playing them.

PSG and City are the only teams that I'd pin down as a better place to manage considering lack of domestic competition and unlimited resources. Everywhere else you risk being sacked after a string of bad results.

Nowhere else you will have such a leeway like Ole does. Kovac was sacked after winning the title. Lopetegui was sacked after 14 games. Solari the same season. Lampard who is doing a good job all things considered will be first on the sack list if he goes in just one of Ole's bad runs in the last three years.

Valverde was 2 times back to back La Liga winner - sacked being level points on top at La Liga. Setien sacked after that Bayern loss.

Meanwhile at United - you get to spend hundreds of millions. Win nothing(even the Mickey mouse cup), finish 6th, 3rd, worst start of the season in 50 years, last year we had another barren run, the year before - again barren run, get battered at home by Spurs of all teams 1-6 and you are still in the job.

Standards are truly like a midtable club with money.
 
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Remember that United tried to get Klopp and he turned them down essentially because he didn't Woodward's idea of how things would work.
You don’t seriously buy that do you @noodlehair ?

Klopp was in a job when United rightfully approached him, and he has never broken contract, is on record saying he’d never do it.

Klopp was jobless when Liverpool approached him.

All this narrative about him and Woodward is just Klopp playing up to the scousers about how he “chose” them.
 

Schmeichel's Cartwheel

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The biggest issues at the club are The Glazers & Woodward, so will Poch take us back to the glory days? Unlikely. Will he actually have a tactical set up besides soaking up pressure & thumping long balls up to Rashford though? Yes.

He’s better than Ole, he’s proved as Spurs he’s capable of working well under a much smaller budget than ours, and he has gotten the most out of pretty much every player he’s managed. People forget that Harry Kane was in his 20’s & not seen as a huge prospect before Poch arrived. Tim Sherwood mentioned nearly signing him cheap for Villa. I think players like Rashford, Greenwood & Tuanzebe could really benefit from working with him. He also doesn’t play with match width, which benefits our squad full of 8’s & 10’s.
 

ottosec

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Two years ago this guy was considered one of the best managers in the world and made the CL final without signing a single player that season, and now, after his team had 6 months of dreadful form, he's apparently not much of an improvement over Ole? Football at its finest.

Don't even get me started with the hipsters that think that Pochettino is not good enough for United, but want Nagelsmann...


Is Pochettino what we are looking for? Hard to say.

He obviously has his flaws. The most eye-catching one is his failure to win any trophies. And winning trophies is the most important thing at Manchester United(unless you're an Ole apologist).

That being said, he also has a lot of qualities: he is good at building teams, he has a dynamic and aggressive playing style that at least keeps you somewhat entertained, he is one of those managers that can get 100% out of their players, and he is used to working with difficult boards.

Another thing that makes me think that he could be a good candidate is that he never worked at a club with rich resources like United before. That might allow him to raise himself at the next level and pop his trophy cherry.


Long story short: not a perfect option, but probably our best bet at this time.
 

devilish

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Ah right Football Man/Person/People got you.

VDS was obviously a player but Marotta is interesting as he wasn't though he has worked in football for a long time.

I'm interested in your opinion on how long a person has to work within football before they become a 'Football person''?
Marotta has a football CV which is as long as a man's arm having worked himself up to the top. In fact prior of joining Juventus he was Director of youths and GM at Varese, GM at Monza, Como, Ravenna, Venezia, Atalanta and Sampdoria.

Your question is very difficult to answer as it depends on many factors

A- It depends on the person in question. Some people are more analytical then others. Take Gaz and Evra for example whose pretty analytical and then compare him to lets say Rooney who tend to speak like a 5 year old
B- It depends on the upbringing they get. Some clubs like Ajax, Milan and Juventus are proud in developing people not players. In fact their success rate in terms of coaches, managers and football people tend to be higher then those at other clubs.
C- It depends on the person's experience. Many players tend to hop from one club to another. VDS for example had worked under LVG, Carlo Ancelotti, Lippi and Sir Alex picking secrets from some of the best directors in football. He played in 3 different countries and had experienced what it feels like being at a selling club who relies heavily on youths for financial survival, a top club who must win trophies and a club who fights to stay away from the relegation zone. You can't compare this wealth of experience with that of let's say Paul Scholes who never left greater manchester and had only worked with 1 manager (who made football look easy)
D- It depends on the club they will be working with. Varese is not Venezia, Venezia is not Atalanta, Atalanta is not Ajax, Ajax is not Juventus and Juventus is certainly not Manchester United. Sure Juventus might sound an equal/bigger club at this point in time from a football perspective. However when you consider the exposure, the money involved, the sponsorship deals that need to be made to keep the whole darn thing afloat, the brand name, the youth academy, the amount of fans etc then we're way bigger then Juventus. Juventus is a top Football club. We're a frigging juggernaut whose worth 3b-4b pounds. I struggle to think of any CEO with the skillset needed to manage all that alone.

Sir Alex used to speak about the importance of having the football side and the business side separate and independent. I think we've grown so much at this point to need to have 2 CEOs, one who takes care of the financial side and the other who take care of the football side. VDS on his own would probably fail. VDS and Woodward would probably do the trick.
 

drmuji

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Poch is a good manager but we have our standards dropped so much that we are saying, let's get him to stabilise the ship and then get someone later for winning the trophies. I thought that is exactly what we did with Ole. I seriously think we need to give him his three years and then decide what is the way forward. It's too early in the season to say something
 

Offside

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At least it’s a proven track record of doing well and playing good football. Very very different at a club like United though. I think he suits us but the fan base are not patient or forgiving.
 

Pablo18th

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Is the question: do you want to win 0 trophies? Then yes Poch is the answer.
 

bond19821982

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Not for me. Ridiculously overhyped. His teams are soft as feck, the style of play isn't anywhere near as good as the armchair experts claim, and his big game record isn't anywhere near good enough.

Get Hasenhuttl or Rose before City/Pool get their filthy hands on them and leave us further behind than we already are.
Weren't you the one who laughed at the claims of Hassenhuttl being our next manager after that 9-0 thrashing.

Glad that you have come around with in an year.
 

treble_winner

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I wonder the idea Ed will try to sell with Pochettino. With Ole it was cultural reset
You were frustrated with Levy's stinginess?
Here at Manchester United we can do things in the transfer market that other teams can only dream of. :wenger:
Like bailing out from Sancho after 2 years spent "scouting" him.
 

AshRK

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He is already causing a divide among fans even before he is our manager. Give him 4 months and we will have a thread "would you sack or keep Poch?"
 

BlahRules

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I dont know if Pochettino is the answer but we need a coach not a manager. The last coach we had was LVG but for some reason he put all his eggs on Rooney which was his downfall.

The only way we can do well with a manager is if we have world class coaches but we don't instead we have two novice coaching the team and a manager that plays candycrush.

Mourinho played defensively and it showed and worked for most part until his assistant left who dealt with the coaching. He then had the chuckle brothers coaching the team and we looked clueless since.
 

Majima

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Look at what state Spurs were in before he took over, then look at what he left them, new stadium built, consistently achieved top 4 with much smaller budget than rivals, disciplinarian, improved his young players, vital in Kane's progress to no.1 striker in the world...

You bet he is.
 
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johanovic

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OGS has failed and leave tactics aside for a moment....for a long time now we are running less than most teams, movement of players sadly lacking and we are a very slow team in moving the ball around. Many are screaming that Glazers this and that but if a manager can not put forward a squad in tip top conditions that has the athleticism to match other teams then tactics do not matter....you can only implement your tactics IF you have a team able to execute the basic things in football...there has never been a slow, low workrate and lacking professional discipline squad that can hack it in professional football..So OGS is done...Is Poch or Allegri the right answer? The main issue is the lack of coaching and just look at the difference Ancelotti has made in a short time at Everton in comparison
 

Mihai

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Yes, for example if the question is "Who was spurs manager before Jose?"
 

Hugh Jass

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Not for me. Ridiculously overhyped. His teams are soft as feck, the style of play isn't anywhere near as good as the armchair experts claim, and his big game record isn't anywhere near good enough.

Get Hasenhuttl or Rose before City/Pool get their filthy hands on them and leave us further behind than we already are.
This.
 

Norman Brownbutter

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Dont know if he is the answer or not, but I can say that he worked very well with in a budget. Thats a talent that would serve a United manager well under the current ownership.
 

Samid

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Weren't you the one who laughed at the claims of Hassenhuttl being our next manager after that 9-0 thrashing.

Glad that you have come around with in an year.
Yes like you were during the same period laughing at claims of a teenage striker from the Austrian league potentially being worth 50m. One year is a long time in football.

At the time they were on a downward spiral and given how things work in the footballing world he was probably fortunate to keep his job after the 9-0. Fair play to Saints for not taking the easier route by pulling the trigger. At the time his standing wasn't too dissimilar to Graham Potter's right now and only lunatics would want the latter as our first choice option for next manager.
 

Judge Red

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There is no answer when the question is who can be successful under Woodward, but that doesn’t mean we can’t do better than a coaching team that can’t coach.
 
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Champagne Football

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Fergie famously said that Pochettino's Southampton were the best team he had faced in 2013.

Pochettino may not turn out to be at the level of Klopp or Pep, but he is still in the top 5 managers in the game I would say, and if he's an upgrade on Ole then that is the right way to go. Ole really had to get this past transfer window right, but he appears to have botched it by putting all his energy into landing an overpriced Sancho and also Bellingham. It's naive to have a transfer policy where your only targets are young English players valued at 3 or 4 times their true value. Pochettino would be more streetwise in the transfer market I would imagine with the resources available to him.

Poch ticks all the boxes. He has shown he can turn rough diamonds into stars - Harry Kane and Son Heung-Min, and at one point Dele Alli and Eric Dier also. His team plays decent football and he has overachieved with the players at his disposal at both Southampton and Spurs.

I personally feel Ole really needed to get the transfer window right if he was to survive, and it looks like through a lack of truly having his own managerial identity, he seems to have strengthened the wrong areas of the squad and missed out on available priority signings.

Would Pochettino be a better bet than Marco Rose or Naglesmann? It's hard to tell. Pochettino has proved it already twice in the PL, Where as a Nagelsmann or a Rose look to have better records at developing strong exciting squads with very limited resources.
 
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Turnip

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No, and I love Poch and want him as our manager. Ole obviously isn't perfect, but I think sacking him for another manager is completely pointless. Maybe we'd win a cup and get in the top 4 under Poch, and even if he gets the most possible out of these players (which I still think is better than a lot give them credit for) and does better than that eventually he's going to be hampered by our lack of planning and in-ability to land decent signings without massively over-spending. A new manager cannot fix that nor the generally toxic atmosphere surrounding the club. If top class managers like LvG and Jose couldn't achieve enough, I seriously doubt anyone could and that tells me the manager cannot be the issue.

I can predict exactly what will happen, and it will be more-or-less the same as what's happened with LvG, Jose and Ole. A new manager bounce will see form go through the roof for a couple of months and we'll all be saying how Ole was the problem all along. We'll get a few bad results and our weaknesses exposed and with no quality rotation options there will be nothing the manager can do about it. Summer comes and we all know how that goes every year, we'll panic buy someone who used to be good looking for an early retirement home, if we're lucky they'll be decent but unlikely justify their salary. We'll struggle to offload all the players who still aren't good enough and when the season starts we'll be exactly as good as we have been the past 2 years.

I don't like to be doom and gloom, but the last 7 years have consistently shown the cycle we're in and no manager will make any difference to it, even if Ole may not be the best option.
 

jamesjimmybyrondean

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I think he can be the answer to the question of whether we can go back to glory under this management. He can show fans who doubt this and prove that we can be a top side again under the current management
 

bond19821982

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Yes like you were during the same period laughing at claims of a teenage striker from the Austrian league potentially being worth 50m. One year is a long time in football.

At the time they were on a downward spiral and given how things work in the footballing world he was probably fortunate to keep his job after the 9-0. Fair play to Saints for not taking the easier route by pulling the trigger. At the time his standing wasn't too dissimilar to Graham Potter's right now and only lunatics would want the latter as our first choice option for next manager.
There is a difference in slagging someone because he mentioned the guy can take over United and waiting for an opportunity just to thrash him and say "state of the place"

And oh yes, so happy that you went through all of my previous posts just to find something so that you can come up with a mute point.

And Potter is also a decent coach who knows what he is doing.
 

Xaviesta

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This is how i feel, the below is who we should interviewing.

Rose
Tuchel
Nagelsmann
Hassenhutl
Poch
Rodgers
In no partiulcar order: Rose, Tuchel, Nagelsmann, Ten Haag, Pochettino and Zidane should all be considered by United. The thing is they have their justifiable pros and cons.

Forget Allegri. If United appoint him they forgo the right to tell the world that attractive football is part of their DNA.
 

Shark

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He's coming. Rather he's the answer or not, we have to keep trying. This isn't working at all.
 

Conor

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I think we need someone who has actually won something, not bottled every big chance he's had. There is a difference between being a very good manager, and being a winning manager, I would prefer to go with someone that has some previous form when it comes to high pressure situations.
 

youmeletsfly

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If he's the answer or not we will find soon enough.

Actually, we don't even need a manager, we need fecking experienced coaching staff.

I mean, the only one actually capable must be Phelan, the others look a little lost, as do 75% of our players.
 

stevoc

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I dont know if Pochettino is the answer but we need a coach not a manager. The last coach we had was LVG but for some reason he put all his eggs on Rooney which was his downfall.

The only way we can do well with a manager is if we have world class coaches but we don't instead we have two novice coaching the team and a manager that plays candycrush.

Mourinho played defensively and it showed and worked for most part until his assistant left who dealt with the coaching. He then had the chuckle brothers coaching the team and we looked clueless since.
That and he didn't have a clue how to build a strong squad. Which makes sense as he had always worked under a Dof and never had to before. His atrocious transfer dealings wasted shit loads of money and the club are still trying to offload some of them.
 

Chaky_Best

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Whether at Sotton or at Spurs, Poch had a clear vision and style of play unlike Ole.

Even if he's not the best manager around, still think that he's way above Ole.