Spurs with at least an equally good team as ours, not doing too well. Yet people want their manager so much? Guess he'd do amazing with that £50m a year we spend now.
Is Pochettino's time at Spurs coming to an end?
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
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Really not getting the comparisons with Klopp and Pep who have had budgets. Poch has done an amazing job at Spurs turning then into a regular CL side. Hopefully that time is over and he leaves to be replaced by some donkey who will restore balance to the force.
A couple season without CL football and they will need to sell players just to cover debt repayments. If Poch doesn’t turn it around nobody else will.
A couple season without CL football and they will need to sell players just to cover debt repayments. If Poch doesn’t turn it around nobody else will.
Better league, cl finalists, cheese room
Poch will jump at the opportunity to play for a club that can break the world record for a defenders. And bench the most expensive striker and midfielder in premier league history, without it affecting the club transfer budget. There is no basis to the £50m a year spend and It is a myth just like arsenal £25m transfer budget. Maybe if our manager in the past have targeted proper players we could rivals City’s billion euro squad.
Also, we have a better defense and midfield than Spurs, so I don’t know how it is equally better.
We wanted his defender not very long ago. He also has a striker that could've been the most expensive transfer in history a season or so ago.
The basis is the last few transfer windows, accounting for outgoings.
We don't have a better midfield, and we only just got a slightly better defence.
Some of the opinions on here are laughable,
Spurs are being held in a high regard solely because of Poch's influence on the team. The team is his team, they have an identity, they have a quality squad on the back end of ridiculous investment. Multiple players in varying positions have improved under his coaching. He promotes the youth. Poch is easily more identifiable as a United manager than anyone who is potentially available. I'm not suggesting he will become a United manager but fans lost their heads over Ole going on a 14 game unbeaten run, imagine if Solskjaer finished top 4 for four consecutive seasons and reached a UCL final with a £29 million NET spend over a four year period. He's overachieved.
Spurs are being held in a high regard solely because of Poch's influence on the team. The team is his team, they have an identity, they have a quality squad on the back end of ridiculous investment. Multiple players in varying positions have improved under his coaching. He promotes the youth. Poch is easily more identifiable as a United manager than anyone who is potentially available. I'm not suggesting he will become a United manager but fans lost their heads over Ole going on a 14 game unbeaten run, imagine if Solskjaer finished top 4 for four consecutive seasons and reached a UCL final with a £29 million NET spend over a four year period. He's overachieved.
I think the CL final broke them.
I will be honest, I had a tough time reading and understanding any of that. The basis is the last few transfer windows, accounting for outgoing? We still spent big those windows, also giving Sanchez the highest wage a player has ever gotten. All the data points to that. I would also take a midfield of Pogba and mctominay/Fred over Sissoko/N’Dombele and Winks any day.
Wonder has he got fed up? They havent looked great this season with two losses already.
The basic point is that he has as much quality as us (including a good few that we'd love at United), spread differently, yet doesn't do much special with it, but everyone wants him.
It's starting to look like the end of his era. These things go in cycles don't they? Klopp at Dortmund the recent perfect example. Pep knows to jump before he gets to that point. I wouldn't mind if we were his next project. Sounds like Mourinho is favourite for Madrid. And Poch doesn't want to manage Barca (who might be needing a new manager too!). I love Ole like the next Red but I think its clear as day he won't be the man taking us to the top. Interesting times ahead...
Ah, ok thanks for clarifying that. As I stated before our midfield and defense is better, plus we have always had a deeper squad than him. Even with such economic and player limitation, he still has accomplished great success in making Spurs a top four contender, getting them into a champions league finals and based on expected goal, tied with Chelsea as the number 1 team in England in 16-17 season. With all that consider, it is easy to assume that if he undoubtedly had a better first 11 and more spending power, he could have accomplished more than the amazing job he has already done.
Didn’t they lose 13 league games last season?!
I'm not convinced we have greater depth, although we definitely have far more potential with the youngsters. I'd love to have Moura on our bench for one.
Our defence looks better now, but I don't think it did before summer. Even now, I'd say our only better defender is Wan Bissaka, maybe Shaw on a good day. We would've had Alderweireld over Maguire a season or so ago, but Maguire has age on his side now.
I think we'd all agree Son and Kane in attack would be amazing at United.
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in the back of those players minds they no they had their chance to be heroes & they are done. Can't imagine how deep the scar tissue would have run if Liverpool had lost it - they would have been f*cked. Best move for Spurs - cash in on Kane next summer, do their best to retain a few of expiring contracts & rebuild
Poch needs to go somewhere where he can win a big trophy, or risk becoming yet another 'nearly' man. For that reason, I'd expect his next move to be away from England (PSG a decent outside bet?).
I can't see him going for another long term project at this stage, and that is what the United job is presently.
Lo Celso, Ndombele, Eriksen, Winks, Sissoko vs Pogba, McTominay, Matic, Fred, Pereira?
How is the latter better?
Says no one except you.
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Think he’ll end up in Spain at either of the big 2 despite his previous time spent at Espanyol.
Not sure what Ole’s not doing that Poch would do currently - getting rid of big name deadwood, making decent signings, playing youth, signing up our best players for the future. Not perfect yet but showing some positive signs.
Poch should certainly have won something at Tottenham by now.
Not sure what Ole’s not doing that Poch would do currently - getting rid of big name deadwood, making decent signings, playing youth, signing up our best players for the future. Not perfect yet but showing some positive signs.
Poch should certainly have won something at Tottenham by now.
Lo Celso and Ndombele have to prove themselves in the PL tbf
Lo Celso, Ndombele, Eriksen, Winks, Sissoko vs Pogba, McTominay, Matic, Fred, Pereira?
How is the latter better?
Maybe (and lo celso hasn't really come in to play yet) but on paper I think we have clearly the better options, certainly not inferior ones. Pogba is your midfield of genuine quality.
You have a better defence/keeper but midfield? Nah.
Haven’t seen much of Lo Celso, so I m not quite sure if he will play in a double pivot or further forward like Eriksen and Lamela. At betis, it seems like he preferred cam, as such my classification of a midfield were players who could play cm not am. If that is the case, we might as well add james, Martial, mata, Gomes, lingard, etc. into the equation.
Lo Celso, Ndombele, Eriksen, Winks, Sissoko vs Pogba, McTominay, Matic, Fred, Pereira?
How is the latter better?
Attacking midfielder are more aligned with the attacking aspect of the game. I have no doubt that Spurs are better equipped with that regards. But with midfielder e.g., cm, cdm, United are better equipped.
Cm/cdm Pogba, McTominay, Fred, Matic, > N’Dombele, Winks, Sissoko, Wanyama
Am/fw Eriksen, Lo Celso, Son, Ali, Moura, Lamela, Kane > James, Mata, Lingard, Martial, Rashy, Pereira, Gomes, Greenwood.
Genuinely this + The Olympiakos game.
Still think they'll put a good run together in the CL. Top 4 is another matter.
Yeah, we might be a bit better in Maguire,AWB and Pogba. Rest of your team will shit on us . Anyone arguing otherwise is just wumming.
Lo Celso, Ndombele, Eriksen, Winks, Sissoko vs Pogba, McTominay, Matic, Fred, Pereira?
How is the latter better?
Considering the hypothetical situation when Poch decides to leave spurs, Eriksen and Pogba would have gone.
Spurs aren't going to reinforce the midfield anytime soon whereas United have to get atleast 2 new players for the midfield after this season.
So i still believe that hypothetically by the time poch moves on, United could have a better midfield. Currently not so on paper.
However if Fred continues to improve we will have Pogba him and McSauce that certainly is worth a shout.
We brought Lo Celso on at CM and that's where I expect him to mostly play, with us targeting someone like Fernandes for that number 10 role. From the very little we've seen of Lo Celso he seems brilliant at bringing the ball forward/retaining it, so I don't see him as an attacking midfielder. I also don't agree with totally separating attacking midfield and central midfield, a player like Eriksen especially very much links the two and will drop pretty deep and help out, and at times is very capable of playing the CM role.
I'd rather have our AM/CM options than United's, for sure.
When I look at your team the only players I'd take De Gea, Pogba, Maguire and AWB. Other than that I don't see any upgrades - aside from maybe James if he continues this form throughout the season. The likes of Martial, Rashford, McTominay etc would be good squad players but wouldn't start for us on paper.
We have a very decent squad. Just shite fullbacks, ageing central defenders and right now Eriksen not giving two shits is killing us thus far this season. I think that when Lo Celso/Ndombele properly settle we'll seriously improve because from what I've seen of both they are seriously good footballers.
If Eriksen goes we'll sign an AM. Probably someone like Bruno Fernandes, we were still going in hard for Dybala I think as an early Eriksen replacement .. I think Lo Celso's future lies in CM.
Possibly in the future we'll go with something like New AM/Lo Celso/Ndombele in most games, with Winks coming in for some games .. and I honestly still think we could do with a proper DM to replace Wanyama or even Dier who never plays now.
Our midfield on paper will look pretty good I think by the end of the season. May be proven wrong on that but we've got two players settling in from new leagues who have had injury issues (lo celso in particularly) thus far but if they settle and show that form (I know that's a significant if) we'll be looking far more dynamic in midfield than with Sissoko/Winks.
But if you sold Pogba I imagine you'd bring in a couple of big talents to replace him.
When does Eriksen's contract end? Is there a chance Utd can poach him away from tottenham? Will Levy start quoting ridiculous prices like 150M or something?
More than Eriksen, the player I most love in tottenham is Son. He would elevate our forward line to levels.
Eriksen doesn't want to join United. Rejected a move in the summer IIRC.
His contract ends this summer and I imagine he'll end up at Madrid or PSG or wherever ... good riddance to be honest, bloke doesn't look arsed. Then again, under Pochettino at the moment quite a few of our previously exciting players look like shadows of themselves, so I don't know if I can fully blame him. The Dele Alli that burst on to the scene for a couple of seasons has become a non-entity of a player as well.
No chance of signing Son. Levy doesn't sell key players to rival teams if there's any chance he can avoid it, and Son is on a long contract. I also don't think he'd elevate you, for me Son is a fantastic attacker to have but he needs a foil and Kane plays that role so well. Expecting Son to be your week in week out consistent main threat wouldn't be smart, he's a brilliant talent but somewhat inconsistent and can struggle when he doesn't get the space.
We can quote this post for future reference. You say lo Celso will play cm, but he was at his best at real betis playing cam, the role Ali and Lamela occupies. I don’t see Poch playing lo Celso at cm ahead of N’Dombele unless forced through injuries. Lo Celso doesn’t have the defensive acumen to truly excel in that role unless further forward in a midfield three. Which is basically an am. I also don’t believe these two can even compliment each other. Still a lot of unknown, which is why Pochettino has yet to give Spurs his best team.
Also, I recall that the lo Celso deal is a loan dependent on if you qualify for champions league. What happens if you don’t qualify? He returns back to Betis? That seems more likely if things doesn’t turn around.
When I look at Spurs team, I honestly only take Kane, Son, and N’Dombele. Maybe Alderweild, but he is aging. His best years are behind him. I omitted Eriksen because I m quite sure he will be like our other expensive flop. He seems on a decline. At United, along with those players you listed, we have an exciting bunch of young talent. I m sure Spurs fan will bend on theirs knees to get the likes of Greenwood, Tuanzebe, Gomes, James, Rashy and Chong. The future is much brighter at United than at Spurs with these crop of young talent plus much more still developing in our academy.
He plays regularly as a CM for Argentina .. and when he's come on for us was brought on at CM. Why can't Ndombele and Lo Celso play together? With the right player to complete a trio I see no reason, especially in games against weaker opposition where we need somebody to unlock a defence.
It's still very early doors, we're a single match week away from being back in the top 4. I'm not happy with the performances at the moment but I wouldn't be at all surprise if we still scrape top 4. Arsenal, United and Chelsea are not top teams, and will drop silly points across the season just like we will .. they already have.
'Maybe' Alderweireld? Either Toby or Vertonghen obviously go in alongside Maguire instead of Lindelof. I'd also take Winks over McTominay every day of the week personally, but I get that United fans will favour their own product. Rose is also still a better left back than Shaw or Young, hence why he's in the England squad. I also think having two bonafide world class attackers (Kane + Son) is more important than having better fullbacks/a better keeper. You're kind of dismissing Eriksen a bit too early in the season as well .. again, not played well thus far but he's not even thirty and can still impact our season.
Would we feck bend on our knees
. Decent list of players but most won't make it. Fans will always overrate their own academy products but we have plenty of our own (Parrott is very exciting). Again, you and I rate the Spurs squad very differently. The way I see it we have two world class attacking players than almost every side in the league would kill for (including arguably the best out and out striker around), three young midfielders in Ndombele, Lo Celso and Winks who are all full internationals for top tier sides and should only improve. I also think some of the players whose careers have stalled a bit under Pochettino, namely Sanchez and Alli, are still very talented young players who can and have done great things in the right system.But whatever, it's all subjective, United fans will rate their own players higher (particularly academy ones) than a Spurs fan .. no surprise, no point arguing about it really.
Yeah and he probably wont last long over there , we know what they're like.
Spurs are fine. The hyperbole on here is insane.He plays regularly as a CM for Argentina .. and when he's come on for us was brought on at CM. Why can't Ndombele and Lo Celso play together? With the right player to complete a trio I see no reason, especially in games against weaker opposition where we need somebody to unlock a defence.
It's still very early doors, we're a single match week away from being back in the top 4. I'm not happy with the performances at the moment but I wouldn't be at all surprise if we still scrape top 4. Arsenal, United and Chelsea are not top teams, and will drop silly points across the season just like we will .. they already have.
'Maybe' Alderweireld? Either Toby or Vertonghen obviously go in alongside Maguire instead of Lindelof. I'd also take Winks over McTominay every day of the week personally, but I get that United fans will favour their own product. Rose is also still a better left back than Shaw or Young, hence why he's in the England squad. I also think having two bonafide world class attackers (Kane + Son) is more important than having better fullbacks/a better keeper. You're kind of dismissing Eriksen a bit too early in the season as well .. again, not played well thus far but he's not even thirty and can still impact our season.
Would we feck bend on our knees
But whatever, it's all subjective, United fans will rate their own players higher (particularly academy ones) than a Spurs fan .. no surprise, no point arguing about it really.
We are going into a season where pretty much top8 is up for grabs, or to lose it. That applies to us as well as Spurs. This is going to be one hell of a season and we are all from the better of it tbf.
Pochettino is a world class coach to stick to the thread subject. Jeez, the Caf sometimes.
I agree we'll be fine. Probably will make top four (albeit more because of others weaknesses than our own strengths!) and I honestly wouldn't be shocked if we won a domestic trophy or something.
But whilst I agree Poch is a world class coach, I think his cycle is nearing its end here. Do think a bit of complacency has set in and a bit of a mix up is a good thing, and I don't think he's really mentally set to challenge an upcoming rebuild with us .. doesn't seem committed enough, especially with the whole 'i'll leave if we win the champions league' comments.
I think Poch will prob leave next summer. Or the summer after. It might not be a bad thing for Spurs though, if you get the nxt recruitment right. It will be an important one though.
Not really hard to come second when the German league isn't known for massive spending, he's come nowhere near close to spending what City have and has brought his team to 2 CL finals and pushed City to the final game last season in the league. I wouldn't call him a chequebook manager...
I’m not saying that Utd have a better midfield or anything because I think both are below par but Lo Celso hasn’t even started a game yet so it remains to be seen whether he’s good or not.
Lo Celso, Ndombele, Eriksen, Winks, Sissoko vs Pogba, McTominay, Matic, Fred, Pereira?
How is the latter better?
Why does it remain to be seen whether a bloke who starts for Argentina and had a brilliant season in one of Europe's best leagues (including games where he ran the show against the likes of Madrid and Barca) is good or not? He's obviously a very gifted player, we committed 55 million to the signing so it's hardly a punt at some no name.
He might not settle at the club/in the league but I don't think it remains to be seen whether he's a good player. He's already proven that he's a very good footballer elsewhere, the Prem isn't the only place you can prove that.
Poch would be smart to wait this season out at Tottenham as next year the Real Madrid, Barcelona and United jobs all might be available.
Nowhere have I said that Pochettino = completely unsuccessful. I have said that Pochettino is good manager (look at my posts). What I'm still pointing out how people can be so sure that he is better then Solskjaer to lead ManUtd. The truth is he has done lot of good things for Tottenham and taken then further. Moyes did lot for Everton and failed everywhere else. The truth is he still hasn't won anything. Now, some people think that Tottenham were crap before he came and that is not the case. Tottenham have, not to say always, but for a long time been a good (almost top) club. Just look at seasons before his arrival. 4-5-4-5-6. So Pochettino didn't start from nothing at Spurs.
Is Tottenham a big club or is it not? Big club and big managers should also be judged on trophies. Not just style of play. Don't get me wrong. He is good manager but if you want to be in the top you got to win something. And with the team Spurs have I really believe that he should have won at least a cup.
You are talking about Ole and what he has done in Norway (brilliant by the way if you know all details) and Cardiff but don't mention Pochettino getting sacked at Espanyol? Managers have learning curve. What happened in Cardiff (Poch in Espanyol) was just first stepping stone for both in senior football. Lets see now how Solskjaer does this year. And for now he is doing well with the team he have.
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