Is Pogba as good as gone?

Lynty

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He's our best player. And devastating when played on the left of midfield three with freedom to roam without tracking back. At any of the big clubs in the world he'd be in contention for a place in a World XI. Unfortunately, we're not in a position to offer that luxury, and the if we can reinvest his worth into 2 quality midfielders who better suit our needs, its best for all parties.

To be fair to him, he's given United more than enough years of his service to sort themselves out. It hasn't happened and still looks a few years away. A player of his calibre wants to win things, and I think him wanting to leave is justified. As long as he acts like a professional and continues to put his all into his performances - which I hope he's going to do.

I think it's a scenario where you shake hands and regret that it didn't work out as we hoped, no hard feelings on his departure.
 

Vitali

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I personally won't even class him as a disappointment when he leaves, its the rest of the squad that has been a disappointment, we've just been managed horribly for years on and off the pitch.
How do you know this? I see this a lot, but there is no way you know how well the team is being managed. None of the information required to make such an assessment is available to fans.
 

settembrini

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Always confuses me when I see people say that Pogba is our best player. He's never won our POTY, never won our Players POTY, never even finished a season in the top 5 on this forum's own player ratings. He's our most expensive player, he's among our most talented players, but our best player? Really?
 

Vitali

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Another new member sticking up for the board and probably Ole. Cool.

I've got eyes, I know what I've seen, and I don't like it.
A nice ad hominem fallacy, there. Like I said, how do you know what is occurring behind the scenes to make such a statement?
 

Interval

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Yes. And good for him. Probably wants to win trophies.
 

Paranoid Android

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How do you know this? I see this a lot, but there is no way you know how well the team is being managed. None of the information required to make such an assessment is available to fans.
Is this a serious post? Why don't you inform us all about how us being managed well for years has resulted in numerous managerial changes.
 

Rozay

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Always confuses me when I see people say that Pogba is our best player. He's never won our POTY, never won our Players POTY, never even finished a season in the top 5 on this forum's own player ratings. He's our most expensive player, he's among our most talented players, but our best player? Really?
But take a look at the percentage of MOTM awards he wins in the immediate aftermath of all of our games on this very forum and you will begin to wonder why this is the case. He’s regularly not only our best player, but the best player on the football pitch. He gets his flowers in the first hour after his great games, then they are forgotten and he reverts to the status quo of being an inconsistent disappointment.

If anyone has the time or can be bothered, they can feel free to look back over just the first page of the ‘Paul Pogba - performances’ thread for each of the seasons he has been here, and you will see how massively exaggerated his apparent poor form is. In the eyes of those who constantly berate him on this very forum!

I used to say the same for Chris Smalling. 9/10, read the reaction to his performances before they are forgotten. He is always praised. Usually with ‘great game, but I can’t help being afraid he has a mistake in him’. Then guess what happens, one day he makes a mistake! Then it’s apparently what he always does.

Paul Pogba will never really be appreciated here, at least while United as a whole don’t achieve. It’s the way of football. Deficiencies are focussed on when a team underachieves, positives are focused on when a team is seen to have met or exceeded expectations. Given that Manchester United are seen as having underachieved with anything less than first, the context of any analysis is always what we did wrong/need to do better. No player can survive that. If we finish third, and Leicester finish fourth, we have had a better team than Leicester. However, we would have had a season of criticism, while Leicester will have been praised. Their equivalent players will all be seen to have had better seasons than ours, and the good things they did to allow them to finish 4th and not 9th will be all that is discussed. What about what we did to allow us finish 3rd and not 4th or 10th? The only focus will be on why we were not good enough to finish 1st, so more players from Leicester behind us will make the Team of the Season than ours, who finished above them.
 

jem

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It seems so obvious to me: once he's healthy, get him in the #10 spot that Periera, Lingard and Mata have been occupying. An attacking quartet of Rashford, Martial, James and Pogba sounds very promising.
 

snowkarl

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But take a look at the percentage of MOTM awards he wins in the immediate aftermath of all of our games on this very forum and you will begin to wonder why this is the case. He’s regularly not only our best player, but the best player on the football pitch. He gets his flowers in the first hour after his great games, then they are forgotten and he reverts to the status quo of being an inconsistent disappointment.

If anyone has the time or can be bothered, they can feel free to look back over just the first page of the ‘Paul Pogba - performances’ thread for each of the seasons he has been here, and you will see how massively exaggerated his apparent poor form is. In the eyes of those who constantly berate him on this very forum!

I used to say the same for Chris Smalling. 9/10, read the reaction to his performances before they are forgotten. He is always praised. Usually with ‘great game, but I can’t help being afraid he has a mistake in him’. Then guess what happens, one day he makes a mistake! Then it’s apparently what he always does.

Paul Pogba will never really be appreciated here, at least while United as a whole don’t achieve. It’s the way of football. Deficiencies are focussed on when a team underachieves, positives are focused on when a team is seen to have met or exceeded expectations. Given that Manchester United are seen as having underachieved with anything less than first, the context of any analysis is always what we did wrong/need to do better. No player can survive that. If we finish third, and Leicester finish fourth, we have had a better team than Leicester. However, we would have had a season of criticism, while Leicester will have been praised. Their equivalent players will all be seen to have had better seasons than ours, and the good things they did to allow them to finish 4th and not 9th will be all that is discussed. What about what we did to allow us finish 3rd and not 4th or 10th? The only focus will be on why we were not good enough to finish 1st, so more players from Leicester behind us will make the Team of the Season than ours, who finished above them.
Do you have like a quota of 10 pro-Pogboom posts a day or something?

He is inconsistent, doesn't give a shit, sulks about on the pitch and loses the ball 15 times a game cause he wants to try some rainbow flick outside of his own penalty box or a Gerrard-pass (except even worse) 60 yards to Rashford so he can miscontrol it or run it out of play... Not to mention he already left the club once and tried to leave for 2 windows straight and downed his tools because he wanted Jose sacked.

Nowhere near worth this level of drama. It's no coincidence our best performances are without him on the pitch. Look this year - all but 1 of our good performances (Chelsea) have been without him.

Flatters to deceive. Flashy highlights but absolutely 0 impact for far too many games a season, especially for the price tag. Let him go to Spain and buy a useful player who actually contributes to the style of play, press and follows instructions like Ndidi or something.
 

Jibbs

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Ask for Can, Mandzukic and De Ligt in exchange and get rid.
 

KennyBurner

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A nice ad hominem fallacy, there. Like I said, how do you know what is occurring behind the scenes to make such a statement?
Nearly a billion spent on transfers since SAF left and we arent getting any better yet you believe we cant speculate on the general management of the club due to no physical evidence of day to day management? Please take a seat.
 

Rozay

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Do you have like a quota of 10 pro-Pogboom posts a day or something?

He is inconsistent, doesn't give a shit, sulks about on the pitch and loses the ball 15 times a game cause he wants to try some rainbow flick outside of his own penalty box or a Gerrard-pass (except even worse) 60 yards to Rashford so he can miscontrol it or run it out of play... Not to mention he already left the club once and tried to leave for 2 windows straight and downed his tools because he wanted Jose sacked.

Nowhere near worth this level of drama. It's no coincidence our best performances are without him on the pitch. Look this year - all but 1 of our good performances (Chelsea) have been without him.

Flatters to deceive. Flashy highlights but absolutely 0 impact for far too many games a season, especially for the price tag. Let him go to Spain and buy a useful player who actually contributes to the style of play, press and follows instructions like Ndidi or something.
Ok. Basically, he’s a shit footballer who doesn’t want to be here, having ‘tried to leave’ for two windows straight.

At least he’s injured now and we have ‘simpler’ midfielders who don’t have the capacity to ‘try some rainbow flick’, and they are also much better passers than Pogba and lose the ball far less than the ‘15 times a game’ he does. Oh, and they won’t make 60 yard passes to Rashford as they know he’ll ‘run it out of play’. Sideways and backwards are much better.

And finally, our current form is apparently testimony to how well we play without him!

One of the worst posts I’ve read in a long time. Must be satire.
 

Posh Red

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Do you have like a quota of 10 pro-Pogboom posts a day or something?

He is inconsistent, doesn't give a shit, sulks about on the pitch and loses the ball 15 times a game cause he wants to try some rainbow flick outside of his own penalty box or a Gerrard-pass (except even worse) 60 yards to Rashford so he can miscontrol it or run it out of play... Not to mention he already left the club once and tried to leave for 2 windows straight and downed his tools because he wanted Jose sacked.

Nowhere near worth this level of drama. It's no coincidence our best performances are without him on the pitch. Look this year - all but 1 of our good performances (Chelsea) have been without him.

Flatters to deceive. Flashy highlights but absolutely 0 impact for far too many games a season, especially for the price tag. Let him go to Spain and buy a useful player who actually contributes to the style of play, press and follows instructions like Ndidi or something.
If there was anything sensible in the post, it has unfortunately been lost in all of the made up bollox you decided to include
 

Judas

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I like how that post slagging off Pogba still manages to get some digs in on Rashford too. Bit disappointed little Jesse Lingard didn't get a bashing too.
 

KennyBurner

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I'm a nobody but I watched Pogba for many years and that's what I said about him in his transfer thread. I'm not disappointed he is the player that I knew he was.
How can you have a scout tag yet say yaya toure needs players around him to control a game? Yaya toure is probably the greatest player to ever play for city with silva and aguero. Pogba and yaya are also different players in the way they play. Yaya could play as a deeplyingplaymaker who could also drive forward as a box to box which is very rare. Pogba on the other hand needs to play further forward or is a complete liability with his immaturity on the ball. Yaya was the complete midfielder. I think maybe your evaluation of yaya was made in his final years were he didnt have the legs anymore because its a bit shocking thinking he couldnt control the tempo when that was his exact role for city..
 

JPRouve

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How can you have a scout tag yet say yaya toure needs players around him to control a game? Yaya toure is probably the greatest player to ever play for city with silva and aguero. Pogba and yaya are also different players in the way they play. Yaya could play as a deeplyingplaymaker who could also drive forward as a box to box which is very rare. Pogba on the other hand needs to play further forward or is a complete liability with his immaturity on the ball. Yaya was the complete midfielder. I think maybe your evaluation of yaya was made in his final years were he didnt have the legs anymore because its a bit shocking thinking he couldnt control the tempo when that was his exact role for city..
Touré couldn't control the tempo of a game and it wasn't his role. He was a great player, capable of turning a game in a second but he wasn't a game manager. As a young midfielder he was able to break the play as a DM and later in his career he was an offensive dynamo but at no point in his career he was a game manager. And Pogba is terrible further forward, that's where he is the most lost out of all positions, Pogba thrives when he is always facing the opposition, he can make runs or use his passing range.
 

YNWAManUnited

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Guys, it's time to get real and just hope Woodward doesn't blow the Pogba transfer money on another bust.
 

doriandun

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Pogba' s contract ends in 2021 with an option of a further year, Real Madrid and Juve wont fork out 100 mill plus in Jan, even if Paul comes back in time to play himself into the premier league team of the year.
Come summer Paul will be also fighting for his international future, as Ndombele will take his place, the signs are there already as he is forming a nice little partnership with Sissoko, unless he starts performing on a regular basis, any transfer come summer 2020 will be muted by the club, as the clubs evaluation of him and the suitors evaluation will be a quite a few millions apart.
 

kouroux

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Pogba' s contract ends in 2021 with an option of a further year, Real Madrid and Juve wont fork out 100 mill plus in Jan, even if Paul comes back in time to play himself into the premier league team of the year.
Come summer Paul will be also fighting for his international future, as Ndombele will take his place, the signs are there already as he is forming a nice little partnership with Sissoko, unless he starts performing on a regular basis, any transfer come summer 2020 will be muted by the club, as the clubs evaluation of him and the suitors evaluation will be a quite a few millions apart.
There are indeed increasing chances of Pogba losing his place if he doesn't play regularly football from his return till the end of the season but if Kanté is fit, Deschamps will always use him ahead of Sissoko
 

flappyjay

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How does he still get so much stick. This season should be the one that really shows how shit our midfield really is. The loss of Ander and Pogba to injury shouldn't render us absolutely toothless but it has. Also remember that Ander has only ever been an undisputed starter for 1.5 seasons. Pogba has been carrying the creativity for this team since he arrived. You will see people go crazy over De Bruyne (not saying Pogba is the same level.) but he is allowed to coast in some games because anyone of Bernardo or David Silva will pick up the slack.

The first leg of the psg tie showed me how poor our midfield was whilst for most people it was chance to say Pogba can't play in big games. Truth is as soon as all the attention was put on Pogba, Ander and Matic should have had enough space to create chances for us. But alas they couldn't do anything and that should have been seen as an alarm.
 

doriandun

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There are indeed increasing chances of Pogba losing his place if he doesn't play regularly football from his return till the end of the season but if Kanté is fit, Deschamps will always use him ahead of Sissoko
I would say Sissoko should be Kante's understudy and Ndombele Pogba's, but if you listen to what Frank has been saying at Chelsea, about developing Kante's game, then as good as Pogba's passing is, he doesn't offer you the guile and dynaisium of Ndombele and Sissoko on a good day. you've also got Coman at Bayern, who will have another season under his belt.
 

Sparky_Hughes

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As usual the truth is so where in the middle.
Has he been terrible? No, he's had some excellent performances and contributed a good amount of goals and assists.
Has he been wildly inconsistent? Yes, his top level is awesome, his bottom level is atrocious and there isn't much in between the two.

Is he professional? Again yes and no, apparently he is well liked in the dressing room and around the club, takes care of himself, doesn't go out on the lash etc, but on the flip side can't get his scumbag agent and dipshit brother to keep their gobs shut and downed tools when he didn't fancy playing for Jose any more.

Personally I'd rather see the back of him, partly because I'd rather invest in a couple of less talented but more consistent midfielders, and partly because he just bugs me, I don't like flash Harry's, it's a personality type that just grates on me. (To be fair that does mean I dislike most footballers :lol:)
 

JPRouve

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As usual the truth is so where in the middle.
Has he been terrible? No, he's had some excellent performances and contributed a good amount of goals and assists.
Has he been wildly inconsistent? Yes, his top level is awesome, his bottom level is atrocious and there isn't much in between the two.

Is he professional? Again yes and no, apparently he is well liked in the dressing room and around the club, takes care of himself, doesn't go out on the lash etc, but on the flip side can't get his scumbag agent and dipshit brother to keep their gobs shut and downed tools when he didn't fancy playing for Jose any more.

Personally I'd rather see the back of him, partly because I'd rather invest in a couple of less talented but more consistent midfielders, and partly because he just bugs me, I don't like flash Harry's, it's a personality type that just grates on me. (To be fair that does mean I dislike most footballers :lol:)
That part is wrong though, Pogba was our best player during the the first part of the 18/19 season which is when people went with the downed tools theory and the weird thing is that the theory really started in late November-early December when Pogba was coming back from a month long injury and he only played three league games between his comeback and Mourinho's sacking, the month before his injury he was pretty good.
 

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If he does prefer to go back to Juventus, it will more than likely be in a deal involving players. Maybe Dybala will be involved. But I would prefer we got a cash deal and bring in our own players.
 
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kouroux

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I would say Sissoko should be Kante's understudy and Ndombele Pogba's, but if you listen to what Frank has been saying at Chelsea, about developing Kante's game, then as good as Pogba's passing is, he doesn't offer you the guile and dynaisium of Ndombele and Sissoko on a good day. you've also got Coman at Bayern, who will have another season under his belt.
I would agree with that, just that Coman isn't really in competition for one of those spots. Pogba needs to play consistent football fast
 

Sparky_Hughes

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That part is wrong though, Pogba was our best player during the the first part of the 18/19 season which is when people went with the downed tools theory and the weird thing is that the theory really started in late November-early December when Pogba was coming back from a month long injury and he only played three league games between his comeback and Mourinho's sacking, the month before his injury he was pretty good.
I'll take your word for it, my memory only goes back about ten minutes :lol:
 

kouroux

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As usual the truth is so where in the middle.
Has he been terrible? No, he's had some excellent performances and contributed a good amount of goals and assists.
Has he been wildly inconsistent? Yes, his top level is awesome, his bottom level is atrocious and there isn't much in between the two.

Is he professional? Again yes and no, apparently he is well liked in the dressing room and around the club, takes care of himself, doesn't go out on the lash etc, but on the flip side can't get his scumbag agent and dipshit brother to keep their gobs shut and downed tools when he didn't fancy playing for Jose any more.

Personally I'd rather see the back of him, partly because I'd rather invest in a couple of less talented but more consistent midfielders, and partly because he just bugs me, I don't like flash Harry's, it's a personality type that just grates on me. (To be fair that does mean I dislike most footballers :lol:)
You must have missed the Newcastle game at OT when we were trailing by 2 goals in 10 minutes and Pogba played one of his best games at United to save Mourinho who was on the brink of being fired. Martial, a player who was fecked with by Mourinho also played a big big role into saving him for a few more weeks.
Pogba didn't have to do it, I mean he is unprofessional right ?
 

JPRouve

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I'll take your word for it, my memory only goes back about ten minutes :lol:
A few weeks before his injury you have the Newcastle game where he basically played as a one man midfield and the game against Everton where he and Martial are the source of our win, if I remember correctly he injured himself against Juventus or was already injured but continued to play which saw him out for 4 weeks mainly missing games with France. When he cameback he was terrible against Southampton and then average in the other games. During that time we had several key players playing at ridiculously low levels but none of them were really suspected to be down tooling.
 

flappyjay

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That part is wrong though, Pogba was our best player during the the first part of the 18/19 season which is when people went with the downed tools theory and the weird thing is that the theory really started in late November-early December when Pogba was coming back from a month long injury and he only played three league games between his comeback and Mourinho's sacking, the month before his injury he was pretty good.
Him and Martial given stick but were the most inform players in the first half of the season. Pogba obviously came back from his injury and was not the same, Jose benched him and the narrative was that he got Jose fired.
 
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Rozay

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A few weeks before his injury you have the Newcastle game where he basically played as a one man midfield and the game against Everton where he and Martial are the source of our win, if I remember correctly he injured himself against Juventus or was already injured but continued to play which saw him out for 4 weeks mainly missing games with France. When he cameback he was terrible against Southampton and then average in the other games. During that time we had several key players playing at ridiculously low levels but none of them were really suspected to be down tooling.
One of the things I have noticed of Pogba’s time here is that he plays well for a long period, then he has a little run of about maybe 3 poor or average games, then the story starts to change to ‘he’s had another disappointing season’. I’m always thinking ‘wait, he was great in August and September and it’s only November now’. This downing of tools thing has been run with for a while. He wasn’t even in the team before Jose was sacked. He had a couple of poor games before that, but before that spell, he had in the main, been our best player as usual. That 3 game duo changed the narrative for the entire first half of his season.
 

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One of the things I have noticed of Pogba’s time here is that he plays well for a long period, then he has a little run of about maybe 3 poor or average games, then the story starts to change to ‘he’s had another disappointing season’. I’m always thinking ‘wait, he was great in August and September and it’s only November now’. This downing of tools thing has been run with for a while. He wasn’t even in the team before Jose was sacked. He had a couple of poor games before that, but before that spell, he had in the main, been our best player as usual. That 3 game duo changed the narrative for the entire first half of his season.
Yep, the narrative is he was crap first half of last season. Got Jose sacked and then raised his game for Ole. When the teams overall performance dropped in the last couple of months we know who's fault it was.
 

JPRouve

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One of the things I have noticed of Pogba’s time here is that he plays well for a long period, then he has a little run of about maybe 3 poor or average games, then the story starts to change to ‘he’s had another disappointing season’. I’m always thinking ‘wait, he was great in August and September and it’s only November now’. This downing of tools thing has been run with for a while. He wasn’t even in the team before Jose was sacked. He had a couple of poor games before that, but before that spell, he had in the main, been our best player as usual. That 3 game duo changed the narrative for the entire first half of his season.
The press has a lot to answer for, a player that has the reputation of being consistent will always be talked in those terms, if he is bad for a long period of time it's just a phase, Eriksen or De Gea are examples of that. Players like Pogba, Di Maria or even Sterling a few seasons ago can be consistent for long periods of time but only need one or two poor games to be lambasted. The irony of it is that Pogba inconsistency is on a much shorter timeframe than some people seem to realize, Pogba is mainly inconsistent within games but he is fairly consistent from one game to the other.
 

izzydiggler

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One of the things I have noticed of Pogba’s time here is that he plays well for a long period, then he has a little run of about maybe 3 poor or average games
I couldn't disagree more. He's been largely mediocre for nigh on 3 years, with great performances few and far between and some true shockers.

Usually a cycle of 3 average/poor games after a run of playing well?!? I mean, do you even watch the games?