Was he ever here? Need to focus on players who want to be here, likes of James, Scott McT and Wan-Bissaka.
Is Pogba as good as gone?
- Thread starter Irrational.
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
Making up rubbish to suit your narrative, he’s back in December. He was wearing a cast a week ago. Yes he’s faking injury so he can leave
He is as good as gone, I am certain that we agreed he could go at the end of this season. Shook hands on it with the hope/understanding that he will give it his best and go out with a bang then the season started with more of the same from last year and he cannot be arsed. He could push himself to be back sooner and work harder and lead the team but at the core of it all he just doesn't have that mentality.
I just hope that we have already agreed a good fee as his inconsistency and injury record of late could end up costing us in more than one way.
I just hope that we have already agreed a good fee as his inconsistency and injury record of late could end up costing us in more than one way.
The state of this place 
I'm not the poster you replied to but I actually do think there's more to it. You need only look at Ole's weird presser where he was like 'I'm not a doctor but...' and only said it was an ankle injury after the journos kept probing and it was in a pretty dismissive way. Usually he seems very open about injuries and makes more of a deal about things given how many we've had and how results have been. It reminded me of the comment about Herrera when he was leaving and had a mystery injury.Making up rubbish to suit your narrative, he’s back in December. He was wearing a cast a week ago. Yes he’s faking injury so he can leave
I think most on here would agree Pogba wants out and since all the noise in the summer it's been strangely subdued from his camp. Now he picks up an injury that keeps him out until the transfer window but yet was fine to play on previously and not affect him too badly. It's not impossible but I'd say it's improbable that there's nothing else going on behind the scenes with him and United. I'm sure he was injured but I'm also sure he just doesn't want to be in our team any more and so is waiting for the window.
I think the big issue regarding Pogba and (some) United fans is not really about him at all. I’ve observed on this forum for a long time that many United fans really don’t have a high opinion of their club. They reel off all the rhetoric of how ‘big’ the club is etc, but they don’t really believe it, and I feel when many fans look at United, they see ‘ugly’.
With Paul Pogba, I think many fans simply find it hard to love him because deep down somewhere, they feel he can do better than their club. He has been seen as ‘selfish’ or some sort of outsider to many since he came back, much of which is hard to justify. It’s like what I see in the Transfer Forum every summer. People expecting little, so discrediting the player in question or the club in order to prepare themselves for disappointment. It reads like many have been preparing for Pogba’s departure since he returned, because they don’t believe they can have nice things, not without a catch.
For his own part, Pogba has always been professional. I have seen little in 4 years to suggest that he loves Manchester United less than the other players, however, reading the forum, you would think it were some sort of established fact, and he’ll soon be ‘off to Real Madrid’. It, for the most part, has been totally baseless. When some comments emerged in the summer about him considering a new challenge, it was like a self-fulfilled prophecy, with, 3 years later, them finally getting some evidence to back up their nonsense. ‘Get him out’ they said immediately, no patience, understanding or fight for him because, in their mind, for whatever reason, he’s apparently never really been here with us. He made those comments, but we saw no sign of trying to force an exit, he had a full pre-season and turned up every day. He was brilliant in many of the games, but people were only interested in talking about the young ones, who they probably believe are more with us.
It would be the same with a player like Neymar. A large section of the forum would say they would not want him here. Yet if he were going to Real, it would seem like a natural order of things. We want to be as good as the best teams, but are naturally endeared to players who are good enough to play here, but not quite good enough to play for better or similar. That is used to punish the player himself if he does come here, because the internet has figured it out that he must simply want money or branding or whatever.
We have more patience in the likes of Scott McTominay, yes - he came through the academy, but largely because he’s able to play well while quite obviously being lucky and privileged to be at United. Any better than that raises suspicion, and a protective mechanism kicks in to push that player away, so that if/when they do go - people can deal with it better.
There is no real justification for this outsider treatment Pogba gets from many of his own fans. Suggesting he is feigning injury now is just the latest in this wierd relationship. Again, there has never, in his entire career, been even a hint Pogba would do something like that.
This is also linked to the obsession with ‘young players’. Too many fans don’t rate their own club. The implication is that because we are a club that could give an 18 year old a platform that no other top club would be willing to give him, he might actually really like us. The 26 year old version who is amazing, nobody thinks he would fancy us anyway, he probably wants to be with the other hot girls instead.
If Pogba does leave, after being fecking booed by his own fans, fans will act like they ‘knew all along’. For me, his biggest crime in terms of the rep he has gathered from many, is simply being ‘too good to trust’. If a player considered ‘one of ours’ performed like him, he’d be a protected species. It’s never going to be enough for Pogba to win the hearts of his own fans. He either doesn’t perform well enough for their expectations, so they can justify wanting him gone for that, or he performs to the best of his ability making an apparent departure seem inevitable to them. If you swapped Scott McTominay and Pogba’s names around, Scott would be called the best midfielder in the league. In fact, I’ve already read that he’s one of them on here! For not being anywhere near as good. But he’s a 6 out of 10 chick who makes us feel secure that she won’t leave us for a richer, better looking guy.
With Paul Pogba, I think many fans simply find it hard to love him because deep down somewhere, they feel he can do better than their club. He has been seen as ‘selfish’ or some sort of outsider to many since he came back, much of which is hard to justify. It’s like what I see in the Transfer Forum every summer. People expecting little, so discrediting the player in question or the club in order to prepare themselves for disappointment. It reads like many have been preparing for Pogba’s departure since he returned, because they don’t believe they can have nice things, not without a catch.
For his own part, Pogba has always been professional. I have seen little in 4 years to suggest that he loves Manchester United less than the other players, however, reading the forum, you would think it were some sort of established fact, and he’ll soon be ‘off to Real Madrid’. It, for the most part, has been totally baseless. When some comments emerged in the summer about him considering a new challenge, it was like a self-fulfilled prophecy, with, 3 years later, them finally getting some evidence to back up their nonsense. ‘Get him out’ they said immediately, no patience, understanding or fight for him because, in their mind, for whatever reason, he’s apparently never really been here with us. He made those comments, but we saw no sign of trying to force an exit, he had a full pre-season and turned up every day. He was brilliant in many of the games, but people were only interested in talking about the young ones, who they probably believe are more with us.
It would be the same with a player like Neymar. A large section of the forum would say they would not want him here. Yet if he were going to Real, it would seem like a natural order of things. We want to be as good as the best teams, but are naturally endeared to players who are good enough to play here, but not quite good enough to play for better or similar. That is used to punish the player himself if he does come here, because the internet has figured it out that he must simply want money or branding or whatever.
We have more patience in the likes of Scott McTominay, yes - he came through the academy, but largely because he’s able to play well while quite obviously being lucky and privileged to be at United. Any better than that raises suspicion, and a protective mechanism kicks in to push that player away, so that if/when they do go - people can deal with it better.
There is no real justification for this outsider treatment Pogba gets from many of his own fans. Suggesting he is feigning injury now is just the latest in this wierd relationship. Again, there has never, in his entire career, been even a hint Pogba would do something like that.
This is also linked to the obsession with ‘young players’. Too many fans don’t rate their own club. The implication is that because we are a club that could give an 18 year old a platform that no other top club would be willing to give him, he might actually really like us. The 26 year old version who is amazing, nobody thinks he would fancy us anyway, he probably wants to be with the other hot girls instead.
If Pogba does leave, after being fecking booed by his own fans, fans will act like they ‘knew all along’. For me, his biggest crime in terms of the rep he has gathered from many, is simply being ‘too good to trust’. If a player considered ‘one of ours’ performed like him, he’d be a protected species. It’s never going to be enough for Pogba to win the hearts of his own fans. He either doesn’t perform well enough for their expectations, so they can justify wanting him gone for that, or he performs to the best of his ability making an apparent departure seem inevitable to them. If you swapped Scott McTominay and Pogba’s names around, Scott would be called the best midfielder in the league. In fact, I’ve already read that he’s one of them on here! For not being anywhere near as good. But he’s a 6 out of 10 chick who makes us feel secure that she won’t leave us for a richer, better looking guy.
It's almost a guarantee. Di Maria, Memphis, Blind all looking good, even fecking Lukaku is scoring. WC winner and world class player can easily top that.
This club is a graveyard for players.
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I hope so, him and his fanboys, that make him out as some sort of WWF character that's going to come back and save everyone...
The sooner the circus has left the better and we can move on in finding a replacement thats less of a luxury and provides more balance. Fernandes, Odegaard or Maddison are all less talented at their core but would be a better fit for the team
The sooner the circus has left the better and we can move on in finding a replacement thats less of a luxury and provides more balance. Fernandes, Odegaard or Maddison are all less talented at their core but would be a better fit for the team
this is the mindset that got us littered with a bunch of trash players, and had people just last week acting like Mctominay is of the required standard.
I don't see Real making a serious bid in January. Not for the amount we want anyway.
Funny post. I love the biased analysis masquerading as objective deep insight. Almost like you yourself don't think too highly about the club. Isn't it just as easy as different players having different expectations? Fans in their heart are very sad that a star player like Pogba hasn't worked out, but rather than judging him similarly to McTominay who possess different qualities that is valuable even for a squad-role, he is treated like a star who flopped and wants to leave. Like Bale is seen as a flop. Not a bad player, very talented but he has his reasons for not being able to apply it consistently, and is not reliable. So in the eyes of the fans, he is a flop due to the expectations.Only here at United we have such a weak team that we would cling to that little quality forever, despite it being obvious the star player isn't a good fit to take the club forward.
Any I’ll feeling towards Pogba aside, could anyone blame him for wanting to leave? I can’t. Hell, I’d want to leave too if I saw this shower of shit in front of me.
The word ‘circus’ is one of the most annoying on this Forum
Question is, are you really bothered?
We are fine without him, I just want the money from him and for us to buy 2-3 other players with it.
He's tricked everyone into thinking he is an elite world class player, when he is not. Yes he is one if not our best player to an extent, but if you ask if I miss him? no. Just replace Fred with someone better and we wont even notice Pogba is gone.
We are fine without him, I just want the money from him and for us to buy 2-3 other players with it.
He's tricked everyone into thinking he is an elite world class player, when he is not. Yes he is one if not our best player to an extent, but if you ask if I miss him? no. Just replace Fred with someone better and we wont even notice Pogba is gone.
No it didn't. Grafters don't need to be bad players. We have way too many players who aren't good enough of course by grafters I mean good players with high workrate.
Thinking he should be a better player is one thing. Treating him as some sort of outsider, ‘not the right fit’ and the rest of it is likely due to people’s own insecurities about their club. The general sentiment of him ‘not belonging’ contributes, in my opinion, to how he is judged as a player. And it’s easy to say Scott is judged as some sort of squad player, but I’ve read a lot, lot more than that, which is my point. I’ve read that he’s one of the top midfielders in the league just this week. That’s no ‘squad player’ assessment. When we are talking about best midfielders in the league, Pogba should be higher. But people just ‘like’ Scott more. They would like him no less if he played like Pogba. Probably even more so.
Only here at United we have such a weak team that we would cling to that little quality forever, despite it being obvious the star player isn't a good fit to take the club forward.
My point is the sentiment towards Pogba. There has been a ‘distrust’ from the beginning, and it’s likely because he has options.
Did you make this thread for Herrera?
We've seen pics of him in a cast, you think he went through getting a cast put on to fool everyone?
Ole played him for I don't even remember how many minutes against Rochdale which was unnecessary and as a result his half fit self went back to being fully injured.
you do know Pogba consistently leads United in all core attacking/creating stats as well as ball winning stats right? Just before his injury he was the best ball winner in Europe
“b-b-but we need grafters”
Agreed on this. As good as he can be, he is only that good about 1/3 of the time and when hes sulking hes more of a liability than a boon really. If we can get a good price for him i say we drop him like a hot potato. No point in having players that is not committed to the club and will have rumors surrounding them every damn window
I see. I'll give you some of my honest thoughts, or ammo for you if you want to analyse me to test your analysis. I can really only speak for myself and I mentioned earlier in the thread that I felt some insincerity in the move from the beginning. I assume more people had this feeling too. I don't think that was solely due to me feeling "we can't have nice things". Around the time, I agree there was a certain negativity around the club and very little faith in us actually getting him, so theres a chance the narrative may have played a part in forming my opinion. However, I was over the moon about the transfer, it was just that scepticism from the surrounding negativity making me evaluate the transfer again.
And to be fair, our fans weren't the only ones with a low opinion of the club at that time, everyone was surprised and many questioned the move. A lot of people said it wouldn't have happened if not for Raiola who pushed it through, mainly because of money. While I didn't want to believe that, it made me distance myself from Pogba emotionally a bit and accept that we might only have him for a couple of years, and accepted that it would be more than fine. If disproved along the way, and he'd want to commit then I'd change. However, it didn't play out like that as I don't think he has developed much, not enough to become a functional team player in the PL. He wants to leave, I was prepared to accept that without abusing him even if he was 10 times better than he is. I don't think he is good enough, and to think the fact he doesn't want to be here now is something that just developed is a bit naive I think. He did leave us once, lets not forget.
It is highly probable that Pogba accepted a move against his will due to his agent pushing it through. It would also go along way in explaining the stagnation in his development and lack of commitment (not professionalism). I can imagine Pogba thought he was ready to step up, but was advised to go and develop some more here before a final transfer. I don't think he fully supported that view despite agreeing to it, and has since been sort of trapped in the notion that he deserves more. This would explain how he can keep it professional and do all the right things, while at the same time not actually develop as a player. Imagine how you would react to criticism if you felt you did someone a favour. That is how I read the situation with Pogba. It is a dead lock situation, where it's not really about right or wrong, its just about if it works or not.
The only thing I want to focus on taking away from this is that we should not be motivating players to come here through agents and money, but through other avenues. That is not a criticism of Pogba, but rather the direction we chose to pursuit when rebuilding our team with quality players. I do think Pogba is a pretty unique case though, so I don't want to blame the club that much for chasing a player of his calibre.
Pogba is a class player but it is time to reinvest the money for him elsewhere.
Honestly I don't get why some are just so desperate for Pogba to be the bad guy, crackpot fecking conspiracies about a guy who has been proffessional in his time here faking an injury. We all can and have questioned his committment to the club long term and his performances, but there is a definite section of the fanbase that just do not and will not ever like him and he cannot win in their eyes.
We're in need of an overhaul and we're a long way off matching his ambitions so at this point its best for all parties if he is sold in the summer, hopefully after a strong second half of the season and a good showing for France 2020 so we can maximise the fee we get.
We're in need of an overhaul and we're a long way off matching his ambitions so at this point its best for all parties if he is sold in the summer, hopefully after a strong second half of the season and a good showing for France 2020 so we can maximise the fee we get.
You are living in a fantasy man. He is injured and that's that. Quit psycho analyzing Ole's response to ITW when we don't even know his state of mind when answering them
You just keep on telling yourself that. He is an on and off player, when he is good he is really good but when he is bad he is really really bad. He has the look of a player who doesn't want to be here and has his mind somewhere else. Just look at both of the top clubs in England even their top players workrate is second to non. That's what Utd needs, we can't afford mood players running the show only when they are in the mood. We sadly don't have the squad to carry a player. But hey let's just keep trying this it might just come good.you do know Pogba consistently leads United in all core attacking/creating stats as well as ball winning stats right? Just before his injury he was the best ball winner in Europe
“b-b-but we need grafters”
I agree with this. It could even be another top-player. Like between Mané and Mahrez right now, we should pick Mané for our team right?
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Thank you for this, I prefer it much better to your last response
. I think, reading this, we are a quite in agreement on this matter.I also think that your feelings are not unique, having read this forum for years. I also don’t think it’s fair on Paul Pogba, and plays a large part in the sentiment surrounding him. Your views on the role Raiola played in him joining us is quite speculative I’d say, and is only a story that works because of our own insecurities. A straightforward ‘I want to play football at Manchester United’ is too hard for you and others to fathom, and Paul Pogba is being punished for that. For my own part, I can also accept that Pogba made comments about a new challenge in the summer, but to me, it seemed as if those were the comments people had been waiting for since the day he joined. Which again, is not fair on him, and based mainly on our own esteem issues regarding the club. He also didn’t act a fool in the summer or anything, and the suggestion that he’s not really injured is also unfair and really out of order in my opinion.
I’ve seen nothing to suggest Pogba will not give his best for Manchester United. For you, perhaps it’s simply a case of his best is not good enough, but I think a part of that is due to your feelings towards him. He’s a very good player in my opinion, and has still managed to be the best one we have, while bring the most criticised. It’s not just us, I think the likes of Gary Neville are the same. Constantly saying on television ‘I don’t think he wants to be there’. Like, give him a break. He’s barely complained at all, and I think Gaz can’t shake that feeling because he probably wouldn’t want to be there if he were Pogba. It almost makes sense.
I am certain that the same fans that will say they want us to sign the best players will say the same if we signed Neymar tomorrow. They will also get into an argument with a rival fan and reel off every record and tell them how big of a club we are. If we believed that a bit more, we’d probably support Neymar more. But he couldn’t possibly want to play here. And as a result, every man he doesn’t track back, every shrug will be testament to a bottom line of him just not caring about United, and fast forward a few years of it, it becomes a toxic situation. One that would be different if he were at Barcelona, where we feel he ‘belongs’ or ‘deserves’.
Maybe in our current situation especially, we are a bit more emotionally fragile. Like a girl shy to be touched or something. This profile of what makes a ‘United player’ has been flying everywhere, and that largely consists of a player with some heart and talent, but not enough of it to play for Real, Barca or Juve etc. Anyone that good could never really be one of us.
You get presented with factual stats and your reply is “you just keep telling yourself that”, “he has the look of” and “mind elsewhere”
comical
I’ve genuinely never know a manager get away with saying something & then being given the ‘benefit of the doubt’ over what he actually meant.You are living in a fantasy man. He is injured and that's that. Quit psycho analyzing Ole's response to ITW when we don't even know his state of mind when answering them
A bunch of absolute cretins on here, OgS says injured, Pogba says injured, he’s wearing a cast, HE’S FECKING INJURED.
Can we just take OgS on his word ffs!
When it comes to Pogba, some of our fans are psychologically affectedI appreciate the response too. Look I want to agree with you, I really do but you're losing me with this. I think it is an interesting discussion to be had about Pogba, but what you present me here it seems very farfetched. I think maybe you are too close to this emotionally. I mean, confirmation belief is one thing but how can the preexisting opinions of fans actually fulfil destiny? I mean destiny in like what happens next. How does that happen?Thank you for this, I prefer it much better to your last response
I also think that your feelings are not unique, having read this forum for years. I also don’t think it’s fair on Paul Pogba, and plays a large part in the sentiment surrounding him. Your views on the role Raiola played in him joining us is quite speculative I’d say, and is only a story that works because of our own insecurities. A straightforward ‘I want to play football at Manchester United’ is too hard for you and others to fathom, and Paul Pogba is being punished for that. For my own part, I can also accept that Pogba made comments about a new challenge in the summer, but to me, it seemed as if those were the comments people had been waiting for since the day he joined. Which again, is not fair on him, and based mainly on our own esteem issues regarding the club. He also didn’t act a fool in the summer or anything, and the suggestion that he’s not really injured is also unfair and really out of order in my opinion.
I’ve seen nothing to suggest Pogba will not give his best for Manchester United. For you, perhaps it’s simply a case of his best is not good enough, but I think a part of that is due to your feelings towards him. He’s a very good player in my opinion, and has still managed to be the best one we have, while bring the most criticised. It’s not just us, I think the likes of Gary Neville are the same. Constantly saying on television ‘I don’t think he wants to be there’. Like, give him a break. He’s barely complained at all, and I think Gaz can’t shake that feeling because he probably wouldn’t want to be there if he were Pogba. It almost makes sense.
I am certain that the same fans that will say they want us to sign the best players will say the same if we signed Neymar tomorrow. They will also get into an argument with a rival fan and reel off every record and tell them how big of a club we are. If we believed that a bit more, we’d probably support Neymar more. But he couldn’t possibly want to play here. And as a result, every man he doesn’t track back, every shrug will be testament to a bottom line of him just not caring about United, and fast forward a few years of it, it becomes a toxic situation. One that would be different if he were at Barcelona, where we feel he ‘belongs’ or ‘deserves’.
Maybe in our current situation especially, we are a bit more emotionally fragile. Like a girl shy to be touched or something. This profile of what makes a ‘United player’ has been flying everywhere, and that largely consists of a player with some heart and talent, but not enough of it to play for Real, Barca or Juve etc. Anyone that good could never really be one of us.
Self-fulfilling prophecy argument I think is interesting but again, the fans have a limited impact if anything. A player like McTominay for example is a good example of a player taking matters into his own hands, changing the opinions of the people. Not the other way around.
At the most I would agree in a case like Lingard's, that maybe surrounded negativity has effected his confidence to the point he lost track of his development, but again this is only a minor contributing detail to the pre-existing issue of him maybe not being good enough, and him becoming even worse when realising it. Sadly, if it affects him he has to take responsibility for his own sake if he wants to be better. In Lingards case, his talent wont carry him at all, and if we apply this to Pogba's situation his talent probably could. Maybe it is true? I don't know but even if it is you only have a slight point there. Some media-active "fans" should blame themselves sure, but a collective mentality that systematically makes players similar to Pogba not as good as they can be, I don't buy it.
I wouldn't want Neymar because he cost a lot of money, and seems to have stagnated. A huge risk to take, because is if he doesn't want to come here he probably would perform to the best of his abilities. Similarly to Pogba. Not that we don't deserve players coming here to perform, but if they don't want to, what can you do?
He’ll probably be gone and I don’t mind to lose him at this stage. But the fact that he is leaving and Lingard,Mata,Peirera and Fred will most likely still be here is the reason we are where we are.
I don’t think I am saying that the views of fans make Pogba play poorly or not. By self-fulfilling, I meant that if/when the day eventually arrives that he wants to leave, that section of fans will take that as the confirmation to, what I consider to be an irrational belief that the player has never wanted to be here all along. A belief that, in my opinion, is based primarily on the options of the player. I can’t look back and say there are countless reasons over the last 3 years to evidence Pogba’s unwillingness to be here. Just that he’s a top player, so when stories emerge of other team’s interest, it is taken out on him by the fans. It is used as some lack of commitment, whereas it is a natural thing that other top clubs would circle around a player if they think he’s in a struggling side and may want to move. It is not a fault of Pogba’s.
As for McTominay, I use him as an example because United fans and the media have quickly United behind him due to what he represents I feel. Not because he’s been better than Paul Pogba. If the same McTominay actually played as well as Pail Pogba himself, the hype would be ridiculous, and those performances would be beyond acceptable.
Anyway, I’m not really talking about level of performance here. This thread was created to apparently float the idea that Pogba has played his last game for us. My posts are more about the perception of Paul Pogba than his quality. Why would he have played his last game for us? It is due to the underlying sentiment and conspiracy theory that has long existed, and has now gone into overdrive because he is injured, which has led to people questioning the validity of his injury. THIS is what I am talking about. He does not deserve that at all. There is nothing to suggest that he deserves that. By self-fulfilling, it is likely that one day he will leave. Because the truth is he is one of few who CAN do better than what we are now. That would not mean he hasn’t tried his best or was pretending to be injured, but it will be seen as such when the day arrives.
Let's hope so!
He wants to leave, so yes he is as good as gone.
In order to let him leave, I think we ll have to sign a replacement before.
So even if he wants to leave, it seems that we won't let him go before summer
So even if he wants to leave, it seems that we won't let him go before summer
Excellent post, very insightful.
It's quite possible Pogba will go in January, but I don't think he is faking injury. The fact he is injured and has had little game time in this first part of the season, means he may not go in January because prospective buyers, who we are likely to charge £100m for him, will want to know he is fully fit.
I suspect some of his otherwise not so obvious 'flaws' have been exposed at United and that will mean closer scrutiny from prospective buyers before they part with the cash. If he had wanted a good deal for himself he should have pushed harder to be released in the summer, it will now be more difficult to engineer a move that United can agree to and that gives him what he wants.
We all know that on his day Paul can be unplayable, but without top players around him he finds it difficult to carry the load of being known by the title of 'the best player we've got'. He doesn't have any real leadership skills, he can mix it and be committed when he wants to be, but managers, certainly Jose and now Ole, don't really know what button to press, or perhaps more accurately when they can risk pushing that button. He is a 'maverick' in every sense of the word and right now we don't really need mavericks. Maybe if Ole can recruit some more WC players, some who won't mind carrying Paul 'on a bad' day and won't mind the fact he is earning maybe twice as much as they do... then we might get somewhere with him, but until then, lets get what we can for him and look elsewhere.
I suspect some of his otherwise not so obvious 'flaws' have been exposed at United and that will mean closer scrutiny from prospective buyers before they part with the cash. If he had wanted a good deal for himself he should have pushed harder to be released in the summer, it will now be more difficult to engineer a move that United can agree to and that gives him what he wants.
We all know that on his day Paul can be unplayable, but without top players around him he finds it difficult to carry the load of being known by the title of 'the best player we've got'. He doesn't have any real leadership skills, he can mix it and be committed when he wants to be, but managers, certainly Jose and now Ole, don't really know what button to press, or perhaps more accurately when they can risk pushing that button. He is a 'maverick' in every sense of the word and right now we don't really need mavericks. Maybe if Ole can recruit some more WC players, some who won't mind carrying Paul 'on a bad' day and won't mind the fact he is earning maybe twice as much as they do... then we might get somewhere with him, but until then, lets get what we can for him and look elsewhere.
Ah, I see. I think my posts demonstrate a rather conventional way of perceiving the situation, without having to subscribe to those treating him unfairly, abusing him etc, and not quite leaning on the unconditional love side like you seem to do. You can't really disregard performance if you want the truth here, because it is the biggest factor by a mile for how he generally gets perceived. I remember thinking he got unfairly treated in his first season when I actually thought he played really well and people called him lazy etc. So I do agree with the unfair treatment to an extent, but you seem to make almost a conspiracy theory of your own based on it. Maybe because you're actually just very sad Pogba will leave, and don't want to blame him for it when he has been unfairly treated? So you look elsewhere, thats cool but there is a middle ground here you're not seeing at the moment, imo.
Injury conspiracies I don't care about, he is injured and that is a negative point blank. He has been injured in huge periods the last 2 years, struggling to maintain consistency. He wants to leave man, you need to process that in a healthy way, knowing he never realised his potential here and that he too has to take responsibility for that. Both parts lost from the situation.