Is Pogba as good as gone?

Rozay

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I thought he made it abundantly clear that he wanted to leave in the summer?
If that’s what you want. I suspect you have been watching football long enough to know a player who has made it ‘abundantly clear’ they want out. I’ll give you some examples if it helps:

Angel Di Maria (United)
Ousmané Dembele (Dortmund)
Robert Lewandowski (Bayern)
Mario Lemina (Southampton)
Laurent Koscielny (Arsenal)
David Luiz (Chelsea)

I’m not naive enough to not acknowledge the comments attributed to Pogba in the summer. They said ‘it may be the right time to try something new’. The end. In comparison to the players I mentioned, it was not a ‘I cannot/will not stay here anymore’. And just a few weeks later, the club have tried to open contract talks again, and we still hope he will stay.

For me, I think any player has to do more than what Pogba did in the summer to make it ‘abundantly clear’ they want out. Unless of course, I always felt they wanted out anyway, then that would be more than enough for me to conclude they don’t want to be here anymore. Maybe he does or doesn’t, but I have seen similar scenarios with a player also being convinced to stay too. As he’s a good player, I hope he can be convinced to stay. I think others have latched on to his comments and hope we can push him out now, with full justification that it’s his fault for his ‘lack of commitment’ more than anything. De Gea has flirted with Real for years, and people have been happy for him to be convinced to stay, and sign two new deals in that time, once after actually signing for Real Madrid, only 5 minutes too late. Pogba is hard to love. For reasons unknown, although I can speculate a few.
 

romufc

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So, lets start with Eriksen.

His output has been similar in a much better team than ours. He's supported by a better defence and midfield and allowed pretty much a free reign.

The press love him, hardly ever say a bad word about him.

He's ran his contract down to 6 months, sulked and whinged ever since the summer where he begged to leave for.... Madrid!

He's been awful ever since then, not looked bothered one bit. Have you heard a peep out of the press? god no. They aren't interested as he doesn't play for United.

This mythical "drive the team on and win it by yourself" is so cliche. There is a VERY SMALL pool of players that can do this.
Is Pogba capable of it? maybe, maybe not. I think he actually tries to do that at times but that's when people get even more annoyed with him.

"release the ball, stop holding onto it and dribbling, stop doing tricks" etc.

Pogba has been playing a more playmaker role this season from deep and been doing perfectly fine.

Why didn't Madrid or Juve pay 150m+ that we requested? well they had bigger holes to fill, simple. Juve don't need him, Madrid could do with him now but they spent lots on Hazard, Jovic and Mendy.

We will see what happens this summer. If Zidane survives I wouldn't be surprised to see him there this summer if the team doesn't improve.

https://www.hitc.com/en-gb/2019/11/...is-more-worried-about-christian-eriksen-than/

If you look there have been criticism on quite alot of the Spurs players and management this season.

Is Eriksen on the same wage as Pogba? Is he a player that you would look to for inspiration? No but Pogba is.

Saying that, I do agree there is a clear agenda against Pobga and this has been brought by Sky sports pundits. We don't see Lingard criticised when he hasn't had a shot on target.

Small pool of players, but when you are rated as highly as Pogba, he is in that pool of players. Do you not think most of the United fans when Pogba was signed thought great, he is probably the best midfielder and we are signing him.

You mention mythical but what is mythical is when fans say he has a shit team. Lets take Gerrard for example, played in a below par Liverpool team and still drove the team, would you not say so?

Lampard, Yaya, Ronaldo for us even. Pogba is a 8/10 player when we are winning and playing well.

The other names i mention were 8/10 when their teams were 3/10 on the day. This is what I expected of Pogba tbh. 0-0 at home to Palace and he provides a magic moment. He rarely threatens to even do that.

I really do love Pogba, I feel he can do special things but it really urks me that he does not show it for us.

I agree that he has looked good in the deep lying play maker role and I dont mind him doing tricks and losing the ball on the odd occassion because that is better than playing it safe every time.
 

Rozay

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So, lets start with Eriksen.

His output has been similar in a much better team than ours. He's supported by a better defence and midfield and allowed pretty much a free reign.

The press love him, hardly ever say a bad word about him.

He's ran his contract down to 6 months, sulked and whinged ever since the summer where he begged to leave for.... Madrid!

He's been awful ever since then, not looked bothered one bit. Have you heard a peep out of the press? god no. They aren't interested as he doesn't play for United.

This mythical "drive the team on and win it by yourself" is so cliche. There is a VERY SMALL pool of players that can do this.
Is Pogba capable of it? maybe, maybe not. I think he actually tries to do that at times but that's when people get even more annoyed with him.

"release the ball, stop holding onto it and dribbling, stop doing tricks" etc.

Pogba has been playing a more playmaker role this season from deep and been doing perfectly fine.

Why didn't Madrid or Juve pay 150m+ that we requested? well they had bigger holes to fill, simple. Juve don't need him, Madrid could do with him now but they spent lots on Hazard, Jovic and Mendy.

We will see what happens this summer. If Zidane survives I wouldn't be surprised to see him there this summer if the team doesn't improve.
Eriksen is also an example I use in comparison to Pogba a lot. Forget his contract issues and commitment, he is also not as good a football player as Paul Pogba - yet is spoken about as he is. I reckon most pundits would say they would take him over Pogba, yet Pogba regularly produced more than him, season after season, for a worse team. They are similar players, Pogba is just better.

Again, England just doesn’t like Paul Pogba, for a combination of reasons. Biggest one is probably who he plays for. They loved Coutinho, who probably had similar strengths and weaknesses.
 

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Let's hope Pogba is as good as gone, he represents everything that is rancid with football these days.
 

JPRouve

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Let's hope Pogba is as good as gone, he represents everything that is rancid with football these days.
How does he represent everything that his rancid in football? In football today, we have racism, violence, players that have acted immorally on and off the field, unprofessionalism and many other things. How Pogba represents that?
 

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I never said that, I said that he wasn't Madrid bound. I believe that he had several interesting options and that ultimately he chose us, nothing else.
If I have interpreted your post wrong then I apologise. I quoted you because of, the reason he came back is because he felt he had unfinished business, which I took to mean he didn't even think of going to other clubs which personally I don't think is true.

I agree with what you say here and in 2015 when people were claiming that he was Real Madrid bound, I have always pointed to the fact that it wasn't actually the case, this idea comes from Madrid's press and a part of the french press who links every french player to Zidane. But Pogba's reality is that from the moment he left United to go to Juve the club that he has always been talking about was United, it's the club that he has never stopped calling home, the reason he came back is because he felt that he had unfishined business.
 

JPRouve

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If I have interpreted your post wrong then I apologise. I quoted you because of, the reason he came back is because he felt he had unfinished business, which I took to mean he didn't even think of going to other clubs which personally I don't think is true.
No it meant that he was thinking about other clubs than Madrid, United is the only club that he brought without being asked about it but I'm pretty sure that Madrid, Barcelona and even PSG crossed his mind and he was heavily linked to all of them. It's not just money because all of these clubs can give you a lot of it, what United offered him wasn't outrageous and these type of decisions aren't based on a single criteria United offered money and the opportunity to finish a story that didn't end the way he wanted, on top of joining Mourinho and probably being sold a great project. Madrid and Barcelona offer money and titles but you will be a second fiddle for Messi and Ronaldo which is something that some players won't necessarily want.

But my point was that he wasn't bound to Madrid and when he had to make a decision, he didn't pick them.
 

kouroux

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How does he represent everything that his rancid in football? In football today, we have racism, violence, players that have acted immorally on and off the field, unprofessionalism and many other things. How Pogba represents that?
Excellent question but you will never have an answer to it.
 

Forevergiggs1

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Let's hope Pogba is as good as gone, he represents everything that is rancid with football these days.
Pogba may not be my favorite player but there's no way he could ever be accused of being rancid. Maybe a rethink is in order?
 

RuudTom83

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I believe currently he is just injured, nothing more.

But during the summer he made is a 110% clear he wants out...so you’d hope United have been planning a midfield revamp ever since.

What I hope isn’t happening is Woody sat on his arse adding zeros to Pogba’s new salary offers.
 

JPRouve

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Excellent question but you will never have an answer to it.
At the risk of shocking some, Pogba is closer to a model than anything else. It's a player that is loved by all his teammates, that has been praised by all his coaches for his dedication and professionalism, a player that left his home as a teenager to go abroad and never made any negative press, he has never been linked to something negative. He is known to be jovial and generally nice.
 

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Eriksen is also an example I use in comparison to Pogba a lot. Forget his contract issues and commitment, he is also not as good a football player as Paul Pogba - yet is spoken about as he is. I reckon most pundits would say they would take him over Pogba, yet Pogba regularly produced more than him, season after season, for a worse team. They are similar players, Pogba is just better.

Again, England just doesn’t like Paul Pogba, for a combination of reasons. Biggest one is probably who he plays for. They loved Coutinho, who probably had similar strengths and weaknesses.
100%. I never knew how powerful propaganda was until I saw this happen.

Because he's a flashy guy that likes to dance and be happy, people despise him. They couldn't care less if he's a good player. The press make up all sorts of stupid stories and they lap it up like it's true. They used to give Sterling the same treatment until Saint Pep arrived, now it's all positivity and Englands golden boy.

Just look at that muppet above us posting, sometimes I genuinely hope he leaves and joins a better team, then smashes it.

Pogba isn't perfect and nobody here ever says he is, but I've never seen one of our players so disrespected. I'm sure they'll continue to be happy with the likes of Fred and Pereira doing the bare minimum while looking busy. Pogba is a creator, whether he plays well or not he creates chances. The stats don't lie.
 

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No it meant that he was thinking about other clubs than Madrid, United is the only club that he brought without being asked about it but I'm pretty sure that Madrid, Barcelona and even PSG crossed his mind and he was heavily linked to all of them. It's not just money because all of these clubs can give you a lot of it, what United offered him wasn't outrageous and these type of decisions aren't based on a single criteria United offered money and the opportunity to finish a story that didn't end the way he wanted, on top of joining Mourinho and probably being sold a great project. Madrid and Barcelona offer money and titles but you will be a second fiddle for Messi and Ronaldo which is something that some players won't necessarily want.

But my point was that he wasn't bound to Madrid and when he had to make a decision, he didn't pick them.
OK fair enough. Do you see him going there in January or the summer? I want him to go. Not just for the clubs sake but for his own as well but I can't see him fitting in at Madrid. I have a look through their forum once in a while and it doesn't make good reading for him. Obviously a forum isn't going to make up a players mind but the knives are being sharpened already and we all know how the Bernabeu can turn even with their so called favorites. He puts in a few underpowered performances and the tide will quickly change. I think the Juve would suit him a lot better with the players they have.
 

JPRouve

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OK fair enough. Do you see him going there in January or the summer? I want him to go. Not just for the clubs sake but for his own as well but I can't see him fitting in at Madrid. I have a look through their forum once in a while and it doesn't make good reading for him. Obviously a forum isn't going to make up a players mind but the knives are being sharpened already and we all know how the Bernabeu can turn even with their so called favorites. He puts in a few underpowered performances and the tide will quickly change. I think the Juve would suit him a lot better with the players they have.
I don't think that the club will sell in January and I don't think that Real Madrid can afford him in January either. I'm not sure if he actually wants to leave or if he just wants to see the club do better and is disenchanted by the situation, so I could I actually see him stay if he was convinced that things would change. Otherwise I agree, Juventus seem to be a better fit.
 

Rozay

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To say the press don't talk about Erikson being crap is a load of rubbish, its spoken about at length. Of course it doesn't get the level of attention as Pogba as we're a bigger story than Spurs.
Yes but while Eriksen is not A bigger story than Pogba, he’s THE bigger story of the two at the moment, given that there currently isn’t really a fecking story about Pogba. They just try to create one, like a half an hour session on his ‘selfishness’ after having a pen saved.
 

Adam-Utd

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To say the press don't talk about Erikson being crap is a load of rubbish, its spoken about at length. Of course it doesn't get the level of attention as Pogba as we're a bigger story than Spurs.
Which is exactly the point. EVERYTHING is amplified being at United.

People will just say "Eriksen is off form and needs to improve", while with Pogba it's "DOESN'T LOVE THE SHIRT, CAN'T BE BOTHERED, MASSIVE FLOP NOT WORTH THE MONEY SELL HIM TO MADRID".

Statistically Pogba last year was once of the best attacking midfielders in the league, in a team that finished 6th with a low goal tally. If he pulled these performances for Leicester people would be going crazy about a great season.

If he was the worst performer in our team then he'd deserve the criticisms, but he genuinely isn't which is so annoying. The excuse "he's our most expensive player he should be" doesn't really make sense because why do people want him gone if that's the case.
 

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Let's hope Pogba is as good as gone, he represents everything that is rancid with football these days.
Rubbish. From different quarters, not just Ole, we hear that he is very much liked around the club and he is still respected by his team mates. He is the only top grade player we have at the moment apart from De Gea and how on earth could he be expected to be content with where United is at the moment?

A great signing or two could have helped change part of that but they weren't to be. The only thing I have against Paul is his agent. He is toxic, a parasite who likes his clients to move around so he can become richer and he is a de-stabilizing influence. Paul P wants out for good reasons even if we don't like that reality but his agent is a scumbag.
 

Steven-UK

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Pogba may not be my favorite player but there's no way he could ever be accused of being rancid. Maybe a rethink is in order?
No chance, when you are paying £3K a year for season tickets to watch some over-hyped show pony not even try for the shirt, then sorry to all the youtube watchers, but reality has to kick in at some stage.

Wait until he is back from injury - alright, I'll be generous and I'll give you 4/5 games after injury so you can not use the 'only just come back from injury' card, and then read my initial comment/s again.

I'll wait....

(he is not the only one by the way).
 

Forevergiggs1

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Rubbish. From different quarters, not just Ole, we hear that he is very much liked around the club and he is still respected by his team mates. He is the only top grade player we have at the moment apart from De Gea and how on earth could he be expected to be content with where United is at the moment?

A great signing or two could have helped change part of that but they weren't to be. The only thing I have against Paul is his agent. He is toxic, a parasite who likes his clients to move around so he can become richer and he is a de-stabilizing influence. Paul P wants out for good reasons even if we don't like that reality but his agent is a scumbag.
I've bolded it for you just to make it a little louder because more clearer, impossible. Agree 100%
 

Rozay

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I've bolded it for you just to make it a little louder because more clearer, impossible. Agree 100%
Let’s even wait and see to what extent he ‘wants out’. The window was open for 3 months just now, and despite his seemingly infamous comments, I didn’t see him try to force a move with 3 months to do it in.

I maintain that we seem to have an issue, insecurity even, with a superstar at the club, because they feel he wants to do ‘better’. Then in another thread, they will say that they think there is no better. ‘We’re Manchester United’. It’s not just Pogba. It’s not just now.

Pogba is as much one of ‘us’ as any other senior player to me. We have had British superstars in the past too. Rooney pulled this ‘I want to leave’ shit. Beckham did leave. For Real Madrid! But I think the suspicion and fear of losing a foreign superstar is always bigger. When Januzaj broke through, with no links at all - I read many on the forum doing calculations that if we could just ‘get him to sign now, we can promise him that he can go to Real Madrid in a few years, and he’ll still be only 22’. The same was said about Martial in his first season. Big Bad Real Madrid will come and take our player as we look to have one good enough to play for them again.

I personally think that this subconsciously plays a part in why fans find comfort and security in young players who Real have not traditionally been interested in yet, and other players who, with effort, can do the job, but don’t have the natural talent to attract Real. If you summarise this whole what a ‘United player’ is, it wouldn’t be a million miles from that. We ‘missed our chance to get Jadon Sancho’ when he was just a puppy, by next summer when he’s maybe an established superstar, guess who will also be interested in him. Yep, Big Bad Read Madrid.

We’re Manchester United. Believe in your own fecking sauce sometimes!
 

kouroux

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At the risk of shocking some, Pogba is closer to a model than anything else. It's a player that is loved by all his teammates, that has been praised by all his coaches for his dedication and professionalism, a player that left his home as a teenager to go abroad and never made any negative press, he has never been linked to something negative. He is known to be jovial and generally nice.
I couldn't agree more.
 

marukomu

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The state of us at the moment, I wouldn't blame him for wanting out. He can move elsewhere and still get a similar wage. The same can't be said for most of the others, so they have no intention of leaving.
 

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This is pretty ridiculous. You're making it sound like Pogba wasn't performing well in CM for the reserves. Pogba was moved out wide to accommodate Gibson, and that is when his performances dropped. Even so, the talent was clearly in his favor compared to his peers. And yes, I know how many youth watchers feel about Pogba at that point in time. I just feel that it's something that is often overlooked when discussing Pogba's final time with the reserves.


This is another crazy point. Yeah he had two midfielders holding his hand. He was starting over Marchisio, who was benched for Pogba. When he went to Juve all of us thought he was crazy for thinking he would win a starting spot when Juve had Vidal, Pirlo, and Marchisio. Pogba won Golden Boy award, then proceeded to boss the u20 world cup, winning the league as an integral part of Juve. This was before they started winning league after league.

I don't know why you're trying to downplay that. And besides, he was 19 years old. What's wrong with having players guide him through the season. That's what happened to all of our young players too, and when it doesn't happen, we moan that it should happen. Don't know why you're trying to spin this in a negative manner.
We played the formation below for a fair chunk of that season, it hadn't nothing to do with Gibson or any other midfielder.

W.Keane
Lingard
Cole Morrison Tunnicliffe Pogba
If you don't know the difference between playing 2 or 3 in midfield, and in a much slower League I can't help you, yet we had fans at the time calling SAF for not playing Pogba in a midfield 2 against Blackburn when he had proved that he wasn't even up to it at youth/reserve level - Christ 6 years on, and after a great education with Juve and France he still can't be trusted in a 2 as he still goes walkabout.

He was a precocious talent, everybody could see that, but he was behind Morrison and Will Keane in being first-team ready.

Not downplaying anything, he backed himself and did well for himself, I just wish as a fan of the club he'd kept his head down, worked with the coaches on his tactical discipline and seen where that took him, that's all.
 

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If we do sell him we won't make much profit on him. Would be a bit of a failed investment.
 

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Let’s even wait and see to what extent he ‘wants out’. The window was open for 3 months just now, and despite his seemingly infamous comments, I didn’t see him try to force a move with 3 months to do it in.

I maintain that we seem to have an issue, insecurity even, with a superstar at the club, because they feel he wants to do ‘better’. Then in another thread, they will say that they think there is no better. ‘We’re Manchester United’. It’s not just Pogba. It’s not just now.

Pogba is as much one of ‘us’ as any other senior player to me. We have had British superstars in the past too. Rooney pulled this ‘I want to leave’ shit. Beckham did leave. For Real Madrid! But I think the suspicion and fear of losing a foreign superstar is always bigger. When Januzaj broke through, with no links at all - I read many on the forum doing calculations that if we could just ‘get him to sign now, we can promise him that he can go to Real Madrid in a few years, and he’ll still be only 22’. The same was said about Martial in his first season. Big Bad Real Madrid will come and take our player as we look to have one good enough to play for them again.

I personally think that this subconsciously plays a part in why fans find comfort and security in young players who Real have not traditionally been interested in yet, and other players who, with effort, can do the job, but don’t have the natural talent to attract Real. If you summarise this whole what a ‘United player’ is, it wouldn’t be a million miles from that. We ‘missed our chance to get Jadon Sancho’ when he was just a puppy, by next summer when he’s maybe an established superstar, guess who will also be interested in him. Yep, Big Bad Read Madrid.

We’re Manchester United. Believe in your own fecking sauce sometimes!
I still find this perspective funny. Not trying to be snarky, I just don't get it. Why do you use this specific fan insecurity about holding on to our better players? It is not like we have a big history of selling players that did amazingly after us, and often their time was either up or they didn't really make it here. You have Ronaldo, but then you have players too like Veron and Forlan, exceptionally good players that just did make it here. I think its hard for some of you to come to terms with the fact Pogba hasn't been the player we expected him to be. Unfairly treated or not, I think people who'd like him gone is just coming to terms with this reality, and the reality that he likely will leave us soon. He'll leave us, and you'll feel empty for caring this much about him. How about a possible fan mentality that our club can and should do better, or is that impossible for fans to think? It certainly isn't supporting your arguments for not wanting to let Pogba go.

Performance matters, and I doubt half of you wouldn't even be in here arguing about Pogba leaving us if everyone agreed he had been a success. Sure, a few idiots would hate Pogba, and we'd share our views on those idiots here together because we all love a great player, and most would thank him for his service like with Ronaldo, and then move on. Based on previous history and our fans reactions, that is my take on it.

I'd like to know other instances than just Pogba situation where we'll see this fan insecurity demonstrated, if you'd care to explain? I'm sure you have examples, to connect it all. To me yet, your theory it just doesn't compute. It feels like maybe you're rationalising a bit, if you think everyone is against Pogba then it is reason for you to keep pretending he has been successful here and you can blame the fans for him leaving, as a self-fulfilling prophecy. Because, maybe you don't think that our club deserve great players? After seeing Pogba being unfairly treated, and that if it isn't him then there is nobody. This is fun.
 

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We should have marched him out the club during the summer.

He's a disgrace.
He was our best player by far last season when called upon and scored many goals / assists. It was his best season ever numbers wise and he made progress in his game. How about marching the medicore players out the club first?

Periera, Phil Jones, Ashley Young, Mata, Rojo the list goes on before we march Pogba out the door. He actually stayed on the pitch for the fans to abuse him unlike the rest of our squad too.

He has never critised our fanbase and Ole has played him in the wrong position this season / bringing him back too early from injury so hardly a disgrace to our club.
 

davidmichael

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To be honest I’m not surprised he wants out and whilst I’m not against (or pro selling him) him leaving I don’t believe for a second the money we’d get for him would he invested properly on the squad so I’d rather we kept him seeing as when he’s on it he’s our one world class outfield player.
 

Rozay

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I still find this perspective funny. Not trying to be snarky, I just don't get it. Why do you use this specific fan insecurity about holding on to our better players? It is not like we have a big history of selling players that did amazingly after us, and often their time was either up or they didn't really make it here. You have Ronaldo, but then you have players too like Veron and Forlan, exceptionally good players that just did make it here. I think its hard for some of you to come to terms with the fact Pogba hasn't been the player we expected him to be. Unfairly treated or not, I think people who'd like him gone is just coming to terms with this reality, and the reality that he likely will leave us soon. He'll leave us, and you'll feel empty for caring this much about him. How about a possible fan mentality that our club can and should do better, or is that impossible for fans to think? It certainly isn't supporting your arguments for not wanting to let Pogba go.

Performance matters, and I doubt half of you wouldn't even be in here arguing about Pogba leaving us if everyone agreed he had been a success. Sure, a few idiots would hate Pogba, and we'd share our views on those idiots here together because we all love a great player, and most would thank him for his service like with Ronaldo, and then move on. Based on previous history and our fans reactions, that is my take on it.

I'd like to know other instances than just Pogba situation where we'll see this fan insecurity demonstrated, if you'd care to explain? I'm sure you have examples, to connect it all. To me yet, your theory it just doesn't compute. It feels like maybe you're rationalising a bit, if you think everyone is against Pogba then it is reason for you to keep pretending he has been successful here and you can blame the fans for him leaving, as a self-fulfilling prophecy. Because, maybe you don't think that our club deserve great players? After seeing Pogba being unfairly treated, and that if it isn't him then there is nobody. This is fun.
I don’t think you understand because you are not listening to understand. You keep returning to your opinion that Pogba hasn’t been that good a footballer. Which has nothing to do with this thread. I would perhaps encourage you to read the OP again.

I also gave other examples in the very post you just quoted. And in others. When Januzaj broke through, I read, with my own eyes, fans saying that they hoped we could hang on to him at least for a few years before he goes to Real Madrid. I read that about Martial in his first season. This is a Paul Pogba thread, and I read that about him before he even joined us. The existence of alternative big clubs was enough for fans to conclude we had ‘no chance’ of signing him. That particular point is no fault of Pogba’s. Since he came, there have been constant references to him ‘using us as a steppingstone’. This again, is more to do with people not feeling United are worthy or something. All Pogba could do was sign and say how happy he was to do so. We believed it when Maguire said it. Not so much Pogba. We wouldn’t believe it if it were Neymar. We didn’t believe it with Dybala. At some stage, we need to ask ourselves why. People said Alexis would never join us.

Fans are entitled to hold these views, I am simply urging caution in repeating them so much that they begin to appear proven fact. It is the sort of dangerous game that leads to threads like this questioning whether Paul Pogba is faking injury or not, which is a ridiculous suggestion, and wouldn’t be asked of a player not good enough to sign for Real Madrid.
 

MikeKing

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I don’t think you understand because you are not listening to understand. You keep returning to your opinion that Pogba hasn’t been that good a footballer. Which has nothing to do with this thread. I would perhaps encourage you to read the OP again.

I also gave other examples in the very post you just quoted. And in others. When Januzaj broke through, I read, with my own eyes, fans saying that they hoped we could hang on to him at least for a few years before he goes to Real Madrid. I read that about Martial in his first season. This is a Paul Pogba thread, and I read that about him before he even joined us. The existence of alternative big clubs was enough for fans to conclude we had ‘no chance’ of signing him. That particular point is no fault of Pogba’s. Since he came, there have been constant references to him ‘using us as a steppingstone’. This again, is more to do with people not feeling United are worthy or something. All Pogba could do was sign and say how happy he was to do so. We believed it when Maguire said it. Not so much Pogba. We wouldn’t believe it if it were Neymar. We didn’t believe it with Dybala. At some stage, we need to ask ourselves why. People said Alexis would never join us.

Fans are entitled to hold these views, I am simply urging caution in repeating them so much that they begin to appear proven fact. It is the sort of dangerous game that leads to threads like this questioning whether Paul Pogba is faking injury or not, which is a ridiculous suggestion, and wouldn’t be asked of a player not good enough to sign for Real Madrid.
I want to understand, what other reason would I have for replying the way I do? I have no end game here other than trying to understand. I usually find myself agreeing with your posts and analysis, and we have different views on this obviously but even when I try, your points just doesn't convince me in the slightest on this, honestly. It's seems to me like it might only exist to get confirmation on your views, imo. You keep talking about the relevance of the thread but I've only replied to your posts specifically in here and tried to make sense of it. If you won't even consider such a simple point as how his performances is perceived in contrast to how he is rated, and how much of an effect that has on people when they evaluate his contribution and place in the team, there isn't much to discuss, and I'll say you're just making shit more complicated than it needs to be, just to justify your beliefs.

You're generalising a lot in your last post too, which makes it far fetched to believe your theory. You'll always have fans that'll be more than afraid of other clubs buying their best players. I don't think you've happened to stumble over something unique that defines our fanbase. The relevance to Paul Pogba is still not very lucid.
 

Rozay

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I want to understand, what other reason would I have for replying the way I do? I have no end game here other than trying to understand. I usually find myself agreeing with your posts and analysis, and we have different views on this obviously but even when I try, your points just doesn't convince me in the slightest on this, honestly. It's seems to me like it might only exist to get confirmation on your views, imo. You keep talking about the relevance of the thread but I've only replied to your posts specifically in here and tried to make sense of it. If you won't even consider such a simple point as how his performances is perceived in contrast to how he is rated, and how much of an effect that has on people when they evaluate his contribution and place in the team, there isn't much to discuss, and I'll say you're just making shit more complicated than it needs to be, just to justify your beliefs.

You're generalising a lot in your last post too, which makes it far fetched to believe your theory. You'll always have fans that'll be more than afraid of other clubs buying their best players. I don't think you've happened to stumble over something unique that defines our fanbase. The relevance to Paul Pogba is still not very lucid.
The point is, whether or not you rate his performances (which on the whole have been better than that of his teammates, but that’s a different matter), it has nothing to do with whether or not he is a person likely to feign injury. The issue relating to his feigning of injury is a personal accusation as to his professionalism and attitude, which is where I have come in. I think such accusations are unjustified, whether or not you think Kevin De Bruyne is a better football player than him. My issue is with the issue of Paul Pogba the human being, not Paul Pogba the footballer. I also have issue with many people’s views of Paul Pogba the footballer, but I’m not here to discuss it right now.

The quality of his performances should have no bearing as to whether or not he’s feigning injury, or represents ‘the worst about modern day football’, as I’ve read. Again, my assertion is that ultimately, I believe the detachment from Pogba the person (and subsequently, Pogba the player IMO) is largely based upon a mischaracterising of him as someone who is not really one of us, is selfish, a diva and has been planning to go to Real Madrid since the day he arrived. I think much of that, at least until the comments of the summer, were both wrong and also out of Paul Pogba’s hands, as there is little justification of such feelings based upon his actions. Given that there is a pattern of such feelings, which span beyond Pogba to pretty much all top tier players who either sign with us or are linked to us, my belief is that the greater issue is the insecurity of the fans themselves, who seemingly don’t REALLY think their chick is as hot as they make out, when it comes down to it.

Before any of these performances you speak of, the same fans dismissed any chance of Pogba returning to us in a way they did not dismiss the idea that Harry Maguire would want to join us in the summer. And it will continue to happen if we pursue a superstar. It will always make ‘more sense’ to many for them to join another big club than this one. The underdog talents, who are not as glamorous and can maybe be developed well - those are ‘Manchester United players’. After all, ‘we don’t buy superstars, we make them’. In Pogba’s case, we actually bought one, and he’s been treated with distrust, which has often led to disdain, from the very beginning.

You keep saying that I am not acknowledging the link between performances and treatment, but I don’t think you are acknowledging the link between how performances are analysed and how the player is seen as a person. And again, even speaking performances, his are better than the rest and he’s criticised disproportionately. He was in the team of the season last year, and on this forum, the focus is constantly on whatever it is people feel he can’t do rather than the considerable that he can. Look at Scott McTominay. There is a lot he cannot do as a top level CM. There’s a large section of fans who acknowledge these things, but prefer to focus on the two or so things that he does quite well. We like him.
 

SadlerMUFC

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If that’s what you want. I suspect you have been watching football long enough to know a player who has made it ‘abundantly clear’ they want out. I’ll give you some examples if it helps:

Angel Di Maria (United)
Ousmané Dembele (Dortmund)
Robert Lewandowski (Bayern)
Mario Lemina (Southampton)
Laurent Koscielny (Arsenal)
David Luiz (Chelsea)

I’m not naive enough to not acknowledge the comments attributed to Pogba in the summer. They said ‘it may be the right time to try something new’. The end. In comparison to the players I mentioned, it was not a ‘I cannot/will not stay here anymore’. And just a few weeks later, the club have tried to open contract talks again, and we still hope he will stay.

For me, I think any player has to do more than what Pogba did in the summer to make it ‘abundantly clear’ they want out. Unless of course, I always felt they wanted out anyway, then that would be more than enough for me to conclude they don’t want to be here anymore. Maybe he does or doesn’t, but I have seen similar scenarios with a player also being convinced to stay too. As he’s a good player, I hope he can be convinced to stay. I think others have latched on to his comments and hope we can push him out now, with full justification that it’s his fault for his ‘lack of commitment’ more than anything. De Gea has flirted with Real for years, and people have been happy for him to be convinced to stay, and sign two new deals in that time, once after actually signing for Real Madrid, only 5 minutes too late. Pogba is hard to love. For reasons unknown, although I can speculate a few.
The best way to get the supporters to forget that you wanted out the door is to put in some great performances and that's exactly what DeGea did after his near departure to Real Madrid. Pogba on the other hand hasn't done that, and when he is playing, half the time doesn't look all that interested in even trying to win over the supporters...
 

JMack1234

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We all know what is going on here.

He's going to see out this season with United then move to Real after the Euros.
 

Rozay

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The best way to get the supporters to forget that you wanted out the door is to put in some great performances and that's exactly what DeGea did after his near departure to Real Madrid. Pogba on the other hand hasn't done that, and when he is playing, half the time doesn't look all that interested in even trying to win over the supporters...
Well he’s only played a couple of games this season. He should not have constantly been in the situation of trying to win over the supporters since he’s been here. They are supposed to be his supporters. And the outrage with his performances I’m reading here is odd, and the exaggeration is taking on a life of its own. I wonder what people must feel when watching others. This is a player who made the PL team of the season. He’s not been rubbish for us by a long, long way.