Is Pogba as good as gone?

Strelok

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You said that he is just bad business for them based on nothing tangible. The fact that an agent isn't currently represented in some clubs tells you nothing about the general dynamic between the agent and the clubs in question. And it's mainly due to the fact that agents rarely have more than a handful of players worthy of big clubs, with the exception of Gestifute and a couple of other big agencies.

You can check for yourself the biggest agencies/agents are the likes of Gestifute(Mendes), Stellar Football(Barnett), SEG, Otin or Raiola.
I see what you mean now, but I'd strongly doubt that.

I had a quick gg on him and good lord:

He called Klopp a "piece of shit"
https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/spo...li-agent-raiola-labels-liverpool-11837594.amp

He called Pep a "coward and a dog"
https://talksport.com/football/3590...ack-incredible-claim-he-was-offered-paul/amp/

Said Cruyff and Pep "should go to mental hospital"
https://amp.marca.com/en/football/barcelona/2019/05/04/5ccd57a5ca47412d2d8b4605.html

And us.
 

JPRouve

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I see what you mean now, but I'd strongly doubt that.

I had a quick gg on him and good lord:

He called Klopp a "piece of shit"
https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/spo...li-agent-raiola-labels-liverpool-11837594.amp

He called Pep a "coward and a dog"
https://talksport.com/football/3590...ack-incredible-claim-he-was-offered-paul/amp/

Said Cruyff and Pep "should go to mental hospital"
https://amp.marca.com/en/football/barcelona/2019/05/04/5ccd57a5ca47412d2d8b4605.html

And us.
None of these things support your point though, it's only examples of Raiola being rude which isn't a disputed point.
 

devilish

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Three things. Maradona is arguably the best player ever, so it's not really a normal standard. Secondly, he went to Boca, then went to Barcelona, then Napoli in the last one he turned them into a competitive team but we are talking about pre-bosman football where the concentration of talent wasn't as big and where a couple of top players could make a massive difference.

A last point, for someone complaining about the circus around Pogba, it's a big ironic to introduce Maradona.
The concentration of talent was mostly in the Serie A though. That league during the 80s and the early 90s was ridiculously rich, the toughest league the world had ever seen. It wasn't just the top dog but also the smaller clubs as well. World class talent like Hagi, Laudrup, Zico, Batistuta, Gazza, Dunga, Careca, Voller, Signori and co would linger at small/mid table clubs like Brescia, Udinese, Fiorentina, Lazio, Roma, making each game a CL like spectacle. The EPL is rich but it doesn't have that wealth of talent at mid table/low table level.

It was also a very defensive league, which was very physical and which had some of the toughest and finest defenders the world had ever seen. The likes of Baresi, Gentile, Maldini and Scirea were far better then any defender in today's football. Also rules were defender's oriented not forward's oriented, so you really had to be good to do well against that. No wonder why big names like Ian Rush and Denis Bergkamp failed big time during that era. The league was that ridiculously good.

Regarding attitude, well I wouldn't compare Maradona and Pogba. The former was a man who suffered a horrible career threatening injury that shouldn't have ever been allowed in football only to find that his club had binned him for it. He recovered from it on his own but that demon never really left him. Pogba is spoiled, he loves his money and he is nowhere near to what Maradona was talent wise. Its really like comparing Paul Scholes to erm, Jesse Lingard and I am a Pogba's fan.
 

JPRouve

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The concentration of talent was mostly in the Serie A though. That league during the 80s and the early 90s was ridiculously rich, the toughest league the world had ever seen. It wasn't just the top dog but also the smaller clubs as well. World class talent like Hagi, Laudrup, Zico, Batistuta, Gazza, Dunga, Careca, Voller, Signori and co would linger at small/mid table clubs like Brescia, Udinese, Fiorentina, Lazio, Roma, making each game a CL like spectacle. The EPL is rich but it doesn't have that wealth of talent at mid table/low table level.

It was also a very defensive league, which was very physical and which had some of the toughest and finest defenders the world had ever seen. The likes of Baresi, Gentile, Maldini and Scirea were far better then any defender in today's football. Also rules were defender's oriented not forward's oriented, so you really had to be good to do well against that. No wonder why big names like Ian Rush and Denis Bergkamp failed big time during that era. The league was that ridiculously good.

Regarding attitude, well I wouldn't compare Maradona and Pogba. The former was a man who suffered a horrible career threatening injury that shouldn't have ever been allowed in football only to find that his club had binned him for it. He recovered from it on his own but that demon never really left him. Pogba is spoiled, he loves his money and he is nowhere near to what Maradona was talent wise. Its really like comparing Paul Scholes to erm, Jesse Lingard and I am a Pogba's fan.
I'm talking about super teams. Serie A is a perfect example because talents were spread across multiple clubs. Nowadays you have 2 or 3 clubs with all the best players in each leagues.
 

Utd7

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He’s going nowhere this summer, he and Rialoa have no leverage for a number of reasons:

Premier league clubs, (let alone a club with our wealth) are under zero obligation to sell abroad due to the influx of cash with the tv deals. (I.E. de gea negotiations and to a certain extent Eriksen)

He’s under contract until 2022 (a World Cup year). In his best interest to be playing well irrespective of which club he’s on.

No club will match the value we’ve set especially when he’s missed half a season already. At present he’s a diminished asset.

Conclusion: We’ll keep him and if he wants to leave on a free in 2 and half seasons at the age of 29, he can do that.
 

devilish

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I'm talking about super teams. Serie A is a perfect example because talents were spread across multiple clubs. Nowadays you have 2 or 3 clubs with all the best players in each leagues.
Well Serie A had super teams as well and talent spread across multiple clubs. The Milan of the three dutch men was, in my opinion, the best team ever assembled. Pep's Barca might be slightly better offensively but Messi, Iniesta and the other midgets would find Baresi, Maldini and Rijkaard slightly better in defending then what La Liga could throw at them. The Serie A of the time was a battlefield with every player trying to go there. You had Brescia signing a top player from Real Madrid and Udinese signing Zico. How ridiculous is that?
 

momo83

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I think it's crazy if Pogba and other players continue to want Raiola as an agent:

Why would Pogba accept an agent who talks like that about his employer? That puts Pogba in a really bad light both in United and in all other clubs. And why does any player at all want to have an agent who is "in war" with one of the richest clubs in the world. Raiola says he is considering not trading with United anymore. So it will be a problem to get to one of the world's richest clubs paying the best salary in PL, if you have Raiola as an agent. I never wanted such a person to represent me.
Hopefully his ego will be his downfall, but I doubt he’d say that if he thought any of his players would object. He obviously knows the player he represents who’s playing for us doesn’t mind him basically saying “we’ve ruined him”
 

JPRouve

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Well Serie A had super teams as well and talent spread across multiple clubs. The Milan of the three dutch men was, in my opinion, the best team ever assembled. Pep's Barca might be slightly better offensively but Messi, Iniesta and the other midgets would find Baresi, Maldini and Rijkaard slightly better in defending then what La Liga could throw at them. The Serie A of the time was a battlefield with every player trying to go there. You had Brescia signing a top player from Real Madrid and Udinese signing Zico. How ridiculous is that?
I wouldn't call them super teams by Serie A standard due to the fact that half of the teams had a bunch of top players. I mean Napoli had Maradona, Zola, Careca, Ferrara and I probably forgetting some.
 
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fergiesarmy1

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I see what you mean now, but I'd strongly doubt that.

I had a quick gg on him and good lord:

He called Klopp a "piece of shit"
https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/spo...li-agent-raiola-labels-liverpool-11837594.amp

He called Pep a "coward and a dog"
https://talksport.com/football/3590...ack-incredible-claim-he-was-offered-paul/amp/

Said Cruyff and Pep "should go to mental hospital"
https://amp.marca.com/en/football/barcelona/2019/05/04/5ccd57a5ca47412d2d8b4605.html

And us.
And apparently working with our very own Jessie now
 

C'est Moi Cantona

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My guess is that he'll be back firing on all cylinders come late March, he'll then prove again to be the top player he is just in time for the Euros, and will be stellar for France in the Euros, Riola will then run rings around United, and he will get his move, which will include Jovic or Dybala coming the other way kicking and screaming, + £30-40 million, we'll wrap it up as 'great business', and Pogba will get the trophies he craves.
 

ExecutionerWasp001

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He’s going nowhere this summer, he and Rialoa have no leverage for a number of reasons:

Premier league clubs, (let alone a club with our wealth) are under zero obligation to sell abroad due to the influx of cash with the tv deals. (I.E. de gea negotiations and to a certain extent Eriksen)

He’s under contract until 2022 (a World Cup year). In his best interest to be playing well irrespective of which club he’s on.

No club will match the value we’ve set especially when he’s missed half a season already. At present he’s a diminished asset.

Conclusion: We’ll keep him and if he wants to leave on a free in 2 and half seasons at the age of 29, he can do that.
We could offer him £500K a week & i still don't think he'd stay. He could earn more than this at Real & also be challenging for trophies. We may be badly run but there's no way the Glazers would allow a £100 Mill + rated asset to run his contract down & leave on a free. This Summer will be the perfect time to cash in as he's at his peak value. I think we'll sell him to Real in the Summer to get our money back, most likely get a player thrown in so we make something on the deal.
 

Utd7

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We could offer him £500K a week & i still don't think he'd stay. He could earn more than this at Real & also be challenging for trophies. We may be badly run but there's no way the Glazers would allow a £100 Mill + rated asset to run his contract down & leave on a free. This Summer will be the perfect time to cash in as he's at his peak value. I think we'll sell him to Real in the Summer to get our money back, most likely get a player thrown in so we make something on the deal.
I highly doubt we’d get 100m for him when he’s missed half the season. His value is low now. And I also highly doubt Madrid will pay what is necessary for him. Zidane wants him yes but Perez and the Madrid board do not because they love Valverde who is younger and is progressing well this season in the midfield. Hypothetically if he did leave, I can only realistically see Juventus or Inter due to Conte’s presence. But again, I doubt the Italian clubs wills pay the necessary fee. He’s stuck here for the foreseeable future whether he likes it or not.
 

Seaman

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I highly doubt we’d get 100m for him when he’s missed half the season. His value is low now. And I also highly doubt Madrid will pay what is necessary for him. Zidane wants him yes but Perez and the Madrid board do not because they love Valverde who is younger and is progressing well this season in the midfield. Hypothetically if he did leave, I can only realistically see Juventus or Inter due to Conte’s presence. But again, I doubt the Italian clubs wills pay the necessary fee. He’s stuck here for the foreseeable future whether he likes it or not.
This is true. And this is why I expect this saga to turn nasty soon. Pogba is not an easy sell with his fee and wages combined with what he has produced. But his agent knows he has to force Uniteds hand and make his stay untenable. I think this summer both player and agent will go to war. Right now Pogba is letting his agent handle it
 

RoyH1

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This is true. And this is why I expect this saga to turn nasty soon. Pogba is not an easy sell with his fee and wages combined with what he has produced. But his agent knows he has to force Uniteds hand and make his stay untenable. I think this summer both player and agent will go to war. Right now Pogba is letting his agent handle it
I agree. He'll probably start playing sometime in march so he comes in good form to the European championship and once that's over, Raiola and Pogba will go nuclear and burn every bridge to the club. I suppose either Inter or Juventus will offer a bunch of players in part exchange in order to finance any deal.
 

Jimmy Greenhoff's Chest

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My guess is that he'll be back firing on all cylinders come late March, he'll then prove again to be the top player he is just in time for the Euros, and will be stellar for France in the Euros, Riola will then run rings around United, and he will get his move, which will include Jovic or Dybala coming the other way kicking and screaming, + £30-40 million, we'll wrap it up as 'great business', and Pogba will get the trophies he craves.
This sounds about the most likely scenario, minus Dybala
 

Volumiza

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I highly doubt we’d get 100m for him when he’s missed half the season. His value is low now. And I also highly doubt Madrid will pay what is necessary for him. Zidane wants him yes but Perez and the Madrid board do not because they love Valverde who is younger and is progressing well this season in the midfield. Hypothetically if he did leave, I can only realistically see Juventus or Inter due to Conte’s presence. But again, I doubt the Italian clubs wills pay the necessary fee. He’s stuck here for the foreseeable future whether he likes it or not.
I agree with this. I have also, slightly cynically maybe, wondered whether Pogba and Raiola have been told by RM or Juve that the fee is too high and some of Pogbas latest mystery injuries have been with a view to helping lower the fee. I'm not usually a conspiracy theorist man wearing a 'foil hat' but the last few months have been very vague in terms of reasons for his prolonged absence.
 

Andrew Richmond

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Paul Pogba has been very disappointing in his time back at the club and frankly the sooner he is sold the better.

There is simply no point having him in the squad given he clearly does not want to be at the club.

The only thing I would say is we need to play hard ball and not let him leave for anything less than what we paid for him originally.

If Real Madrid or other club want him well they have to pay market value and that should be well in excess of what we paid for him four seasons ago.
 

ExecutionerWasp001

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I highly doubt we’d get 100m for him when he’s missed half the season. His value is low now. And I also highly doubt Madrid will pay what is necessary for him. Zidane wants him yes but Perez and the Madrid board do not because they love Valverde who is younger and is progressing well this season in the midfield. Hypothetically if he did leave, I can only realistically see Juventus or Inter due to Conte’s presence. But again, I doubt the Italian clubs wills pay the necessary fee. He’s stuck here for the foreseeable future whether he likes it or not.
I'd imagine we were hoping to get around £150 Mill for him. There's obviously no way anyone wants to pay what we want for him. This whole injury saga is intended to put the club out of position & it's worked. We will get our money back at the least though. He would be a beast on the field at Mardid & a marketers dream off it.
 

Bubz27

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There's a pic of him rehabbing wearing a Valencia top and they're playing Real today.

If he was wearing a Real shirt it'd be going mental here.
 

TheLittleOne

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I was angry at him in the summer when he made that interview..it pissed me of not only cause hes potentialy leaving but also because it certainly didnt help in recruting new players (and ambition of the club is ironically a reason to leave). It would worry me as an incoming player when the star of the team want s to leave - league table aside. since then he dindt really do anything wrong. i just wish he would come out and make a comitment. i dont like how his agent and brother are talking about the club and hes not stopping them thats all. terrific player
 

oreon

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I have a feeling he’s gonna leave on a free.
ManUTD have an option to extend for another year. He won't want to waste two years of his prime waiting for a move. He's gone this summer. There's incentive for both sides to get something done. UTD know this summer they have the most leverage and Pogba wants to be gone asap. I don't think a team will pay the 150 million but I think we'll get atleast 100 million for him.
 

Dante

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33 games played this season.

With Pogba:
P8 W2 D4 L2

Without Pogba:
P25 W13 D6 L6

Our record without Pogba is better than our record with him.

Before people jump down my throat, I'm not posting this as a criticism of Pogba, so much as a defence of the rest of the squad. If he leaves, I don't think United's play on the pitch will be worse off for it

As talented as Pogba is, he detracts from our team dynamic (at its best) more than he adds to it imo. It's a Coutinho at Liverpool situation.
 
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Wolfmother

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33 games played this season.

With Pogba:
P8 W2 D4 L2

Without Pogba:
P25 W13 D6 L6

Our record without Pogba is better than our record with him.

Before people jump down my throat, I'm not posting this as a criticism of Pogba, so much as a defence of the rest of the squad. If he leaves, I don't think United's play on the pitch will be worse off. for it

As talented as Pogba is, he detracts from our team dynamic (at it's best) more than he adds to it imo. It's a Coutinho at Liverpool situation.
To be fair, he played mostly in the start of the season. It would be interesting to see him play once Fred started to play football and Scott started progressing. So much of team dynamics have been destroyed this season with fecking injuries. Now even Mata and Matic are picking up.
And im not sure Pogba will leave, not if the club sign quality players and start challenging.
 

Denis' cuff

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To be fair, he played mostly in the start of the season. It would be interesting to see him play once Fred started to play football and Scott started progressing. So much of team dynamics have been destroyed this season with fecking injuries. Now even Mata and Matic are picking up.
And im not sure Pogba will leave, not if the club sign quality players and start challenging.
Funny all these players + Rashford etc are improving without him around. Figures above are quite telling. The win at PSG with all the players pulling together .- just don't see that happening with him around, pirouetting and hogging the bal until the chance of a break is gone. We all know he has the talent. Just lacks the application.
 

TRUERED89

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Funny all these players + Rashford etc are improving without him around. Figures above are quite telling. The win at PSG with all the players pulling together .- just don't see that happening with him around, pirouetting and hogging the bal until the chance of a break is gone. We all know he has the talent. Just lacks the application.
I agree, big Pogba fan but no need to always be flash with it, keep it moving, one-touch, urgency, go for the throat while they're out of position. He has a tendency to dilly dally then the chance has gone as oppo players have recovered. But then on the flipside, he'll see passes and pull off diagonals that only a few in the world could do. Also calm the midfield and control/slow the game when required.
Catch 22 at its finest.
 

Maluco

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Funny all these players + Rashford etc are improving without him around. Figures above are quite telling. The win at PSG with all the players pulling together .- just don't see that happening with him around, pirouetting and hogging the bal until the chance of a break is gone. We all know he has the talent. Just lacks the application.
This. One hundred times this. Any top team needs to have everyone pulling in the same direction. There are obvious questions about his attitude and application, but even if there weren’t, if you are not 100% in, you are not worth having around.

If you have a 90 million asset not contributing, who isn’t visibly making the team any better when he is available, and who has heavily hinted thinks he is bigger than where the team currently is, desite questionable commitment, surely it’s better to reinvest that 90 million in two top talents who want to be here?

The Glazers and Woodward are controversial owners but you can’t just spend, spend, spend. If we want two players now in January, get this deal sorted for the summer and use the money now to try and push on.
 

OrcaFat

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This. One hundred times this. Any top team needs to have everyone pulling in the same direction. There are obvious questions about his attitude and application, but even if there weren’t, if you are not 100% in, you are not worth having around.

If you have a 90 million asset not contributing, who isn’t visibly making the team any better when he is available, and who has heavily hinted thinks he is bigger than where the team currently is, desite questionable commitment, surely it’s better to reinvest that 90 million in two top talents who want to be here?

The Glazers and Woodward are controversial owners but you can’t just spend, spend, spend. If we want two players now in January, get this deal sorted for the summer and use the money now to try and push on.
When he plays well he visibly makes the team much better. But he doesn’t play well enough very often. I’m up for selling him but no way you can get two players of the right calibre for the money we’d get. He needs properly replacing with a new attacking “main man” which will be v. expensive.

Shame though. What a player he could have been.
 

11101

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Funny all these players + Rashford etc are improving without him around. Figures above are quite telling. The win at PSG with all the players pulling together .- just don't see that happening with him around, pirouetting and hogging the bal until the chance of a break is gone. We all know he has the talent. Just lacks the application.
He was instrumental in the best period we've seen since Fergie left. If he was playing now Rashford etc. would be even better because they would have somebody good enough to spot the runs they make.
 

OrcaFat

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He was instrumental in the best period we've seen since Fergie left. If he was playing now Rashford etc. would be even better because they would have somebody good enough to spot the runs they make.
Yes. When he’s good, he’s golden. But when he’s bad he’s quite horrid. He lacks the will or strength of character to stay golden.

He’s gone I’m sure. He’ll wander about from club to club under the spell of his agent and will realise one day he never really learned how to play football. A great loss to us and to himself.
 

Maluco

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When he plays well he visibly makes the team much better. But he doesn’t play well enough very often. I’m up for selling him but no way you can get two players of the right calibre for the money we’d get. He needs properly replacing with a new attacking “main man” which will be v. expensive.

Shame though. What a player he could have been.
I just don’t know. I have seen the team raise it’s game equally as much with or without him on the pitch. It’s inconclusive, and if he was worth all the heartache, it should be consistently clear and obvious. That we can agree on.

If we buy English, I think you’re right, 90-100 million isn’t enough for two players that would improve us, but if we go shopping in Europe, I think it’s entirely possible.

Bruno Fernandes would be a great creative spark and if he gets anywhere near his current numbers, would easily surpass Pogbas contribution. At 50 million, you would have another 40-50 million left to look at the likes of Ziyech or Cantwell for an exciting attacking option, or the likes of Philips, Partey or even the likes of Rabiot in midfield.

Even if you had to add 10-20 million for the likes of a relegated Grealish, it’s definitely possible that we could have two key contributors in his place considering his wage. Two players that actually want to be here.
 

KristianMackle

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He feels bigger than the club because we're awful right now. He doesnt escape any blame for that either. But I would like to see us surround him with some class midfield talent to see what he does.
 

sunama

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Yes. When he’s good, he’s golden. But when he’s bad he’s quite horrid. He lacks the will or strength of character to stay golden.

He’s gone I’m sure. He’ll wander about from club to club under the spell of his agent and will realise one day he never really learned how to play football. A great loss to us and to himself.
I assure you,, Pogba knows how to play football :smirk:
The truth is that Pogba needs/wants to be surrounded by players who at his level and that is something that we won't be offering anytime soon.
Given the above, there is a VERY high chance that he will be gone in the Summer and most likely he will move to a club which can offer him opportunities to play in big games. I'd say that Juve, Madrid and PSG would be his most likely destinations, though of course, anything can happen when the transfer window open.

PS. I do agree that he does go through phases of poor form, but also good form. I believe we refer to this as being a streaky player. If he was a striker, he'd go 10 games without scoring and then would score in the next 10 games.
 

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Well l if he's not happy here, we should let him off. If we could get players that want to come here ( not just for the money) and makes us stronger then Ok. If not just demand the cash, and try and get the players we want in the summer.