Is Pogba as good as gone?

sunama

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Yes. When he’s good, he’s golden. But when he’s bad he’s quite horrid. He lacks the will or strength of character to stay golden.

He’s gone I’m sure. He’ll wander about from club to club under the spell of his agent and will realise one day he never really learned how to play football. A great loss to us and to himself.
I assure you,, Pogba knows how to play football :smirk:
The truth is that Pogba needs/wants to be surrounded by players who at his level and that is something that we won't be offering anytime soon.
Given the above, there is a VERY high chance that he will be gone in the Summer and most likely he will move to a club which can offer him opportunities to play in big games. I'd say that Juve, Madrid and PSG would be his most likely destinations, though of course, anything can happen when the transfer window open.

PS. I do agree that he does go through phases of poor form, but also good form. I believe we refer to this as being a streaky player. If he was a striker, he'd go 10 games without scoring and then would score in the next 10 games.
 

Bestietom

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Well l if he's not happy here, we should let him off. If we could get players that want to come here ( not just for the money) and makes us stronger then Ok. If not just demand the cash, and try and get the players we want in the summer.
 

jackal&hyde

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Yes. When he’s good, he’s golden. But when he’s bad he’s quite horrid. He lacks the will or strength of character to stay golden.

He’s gone I’m sure. He’ll wander about from club to club under the spell of his agent and will realise one day he never really learned how to play football. A great loss to us and to himself.
:lol: :lol:
 

Maluco

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It’s may be an exaggeration, but I don’t think it’s far from the truth. He will be 27 in a few weeks, and he still isn’t a consistent performer. I think that would be acceptable for someone with half his talent, but more often that not, he is sub-par and frustrating for United. We forgive it because he pops up with a bit of genius every so often, but he hasn’t justified his wage or his transfer fee.

He obviously has a high opinion of himself, but he hasn’t really achieved anything in the game to have that opinion. Yes, he has won a World Cup, but so has Giroud. At club level, he was fortunate to be in a world class Juventus side with no real domestic competition.

Truly great players elevate their teams, and he has everything. He has tremendous vision, great ability on the ball, he is athletic and strong and he is an intelligent footballer, but he seems incapable of stringing it all together and seems to need a very specific role to play well.

People defend him, but his attitude stinks. To not even go up to Burnley and watch his teammates, and to instead choose some charity match in France is disrespectful in the extreme.

People excuse him of his behavior and Raiola because of the player he has the potential to be, but the player he is, isn’t worth all the heartache he inevitably brings.

Sell him, and get in two players who are driven to perform for United and are full aware of the privilege they have in playing here.
 

ZenMaster Coltrane

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Can I get a sticky for the Tier 1 level Pogba trolls/haters. It would go a long way to reducing the clutter.

Has Paul Pogba crashed a car? Gotten in to a club fight? No. He's just been his gregarious self. Some may prefer the stoic silent type but that's life. Find an actual manager who embraces his desire to be the artist on the field and play to his strengths. Don't ask him to break up play, distribute and arrive in the box. Way too many roles. Just as there are more top players now who won't buy into playing a system (i.e. Mourinho) that is predicated on not having the ball, there are players that require a different kind of manager to get the max out of them. I think France could be 10x the team they are with a more progressive manager.
 

Denis' cuff

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He was instrumental in the best period we've seen since Fergie left. If he was playing now Rashford etc. would be even better because they would have somebody good enough to spot the runs they make.
So we're a dozen other players. He was also instrumental in the worst.

If? There's always an "if" with old Poggers isn't there? He's just as likely to be hogging the ball whilst the forwards are left stranded, having made their runs in vain.
 

McUnited

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Pogba’s future has dominated the agenda for far too long already. I think it would be best for both parties if he moved on. Hope to see the board agree to sell him but refuse to deal with Raiola, if legally possible.
 

romufc

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Pogba is a big conundrum. Real Madrid manager wants him, the president doesn't. Juventus rumours are always there but how much there is to it I wonder.

He wants to leave. However; the issue is that United will want £120m minimum for him and the fans are happy for him to go.

Can Real Madrid afford him? maybe
Do they need him? Not really, they might have unearthed a gem in Valverde. Odegard is still go come back from loan, and cabellos.
 

TheRedDevil'sAdvocate

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Can I get a sticky for the Tier 1 level Pogba trolls/haters. It would go a long way to reducing the clutter.

Has Paul Pogba crashed a car? Gotten in to a club fight? No. He's just been his gregarious self. Some may prefer the stoic silent type but that's life. Find an actual manager who embraces his desire to be the artist on the field and play to his strengths. Don't ask him to break up play, distribute and arrive in the box. Way too many roles. Just as there are more top players now who won't buy into playing a system (i.e. Mourinho) that is predicated on not having the ball, there are players that require a different kind of manager to get the max out of them. I think France could be 10x the team they are with a more progressive manager.
Agree with is.

We lack so many things on the pitch and we expect him to come up with a solution to each and every one of them because of his price tag and his world-class etiquette. No vertical/third man runs in the final third from the midfield? Pogba's fault. Difficulties to move the ball through the lines in our build-up? Where's Pogba? Constantly getting bypassed in the midfield and leaving our back-four exposed? Pogba's lazy.

Meanwhile, his best attributes, what makes him great, are his passing skills and his vision. My question is: Do we stretch the pitch horizontally with constantly overlapping full-backs to put his accurate long diagonals to good use? Do our four attacking players compress the space in the central channels by coming deeper and initiate short-passing sequences (thus allowing him to be the playmaker) or do they lose the ball more often than not in tight spaces? Whenever he draws two or three players does anyone provide him with an angle for a pass or do they all just wait for Pogba to beat his marker and get the ball forward on his own?

It's no wonder that Zidane wants him. Alongside Casemiro, Kroos and Modric, he'll always have an option to pass the ball and he'll always have adequate cover behind him. He has weaknesses as a player, there's no doubt about that. But you read some of the comments on here and you get the feeling that some people would applaud us getting 100 million for him and then splash it on the likes of Longstaff and Rice because they "run" and they'll "play for the badge". It really makes you wonder...
 

Mainoldo

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He’s staying. Like Neymar no-one can afford him and like Rooney he just has to hope we bring in better players.
 

ReallyUSA

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Let him go man. Two rebuilding projects in your prime isn't fun and i get him
 

chromepaxos

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Well Serie A had super teams as well and talent spread across multiple clubs. The Milan of the three dutch men was, in my opinion, the best team ever assembled. Pep's Barca might be slightly better offensively but Messi, Iniesta and the other midgets would find Baresi, Maldini and Rijkaard slightly better in defending then what La Liga could throw at them.
I understand your adoration of 90s Serie A, and of course Messi and Iniesta might be less effective if they could simply be cleaned out in every tackle. But the game has changed and there is no guarantee that players of the 90s would cope with the tactics, laws and different kind of physicality of today. As you said yourself, the rules favoured defenders then, which is why I often watch games of that era and marvel at how much more skill is on display today.

It would be weird if football is the only field of sporting endeavour in which 30 years of tactical innovation and sports science resulted in sportsmen that couldn't compete with what went before..
 

Robaldo

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Here's a question to rival fans of major clubs: Would any of you be happy to spend a large amount of money - let's say what United paid - on Paul Pogba?
 

Baneofthegame

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I don't think its common for clubs to give daily/weekly detailed information on injured players. But in this case there actually has been some detail given, not much but some. The club posted this statement in October for example: https://www.manutd.com/en/news/detail/paul-pogba-ruled-out-for-a-month-due-to-injury
And after the Arsenal match Solskjær stated quite clearly that after getting a second opinion, Pogba and his team decided that it would be best to have another operation ASAP, so he'll be out for another month or so now.

Also, if I remember correctly when Shaw and Martial dealt with injuries for a few weeks we weren't given much detail on their injuries either. Martial was originally slated to be out for about a month, but it actually took him two months to recover from his injuries. Shaw even longer. We haven't been given much detail on McTominay's injury either, first it was "a few weeks" and then all of a sudden he'll be out for "a few months".

He doesn't "live on social media". He doesn't even post that much anymore, if you check his Instagram you'll see he rarely posts pictures more than twice a week. He's a family man so a lot of his pictures are of his brothers, girlfriend and their young child. That's pretty normal. Most people on social media post pictures like that. Every now and then there are sponsored posts but they're not that many, and I doubt Pogba himself posts the sponsored pictures, that's probaly his PR team that take care of those.

Also he's posted a few videos of himself during the rehab. Which to me says he was been working on his fitness and getting back. He doesn't have to give out an official statement on a regular basis, he posted a couple of videos exercising, that should be enough. Just let him just focus on his rehab in peace.

Raiola always talks shit. I'm not sure what you want Pogba to do, he isn't Raiola's mother. It's not Pogba's job to put him on a leash he says something you don't like.

He didn't "feck off to France", he did a charity event with the clubs permission.

Lastly, I don't think he'll talk shite about the club when he leaves. He didn't talk shite about us while he was at Juve and he hasn't talked shite about Juve since re-signing for us. And as far as I know he hasn't spoken shite about any former or current teammate. Believe it or not Pogba is actually a professional and respectful individual, he's not this evil cartoon villain person you think he is.
Agree with this post, except for the agent part, Paul Pogba employs Mina Raiola and not the other way round.

A bit like in basketball when Anthony Davis wanted to be traded from the Pelicans, Rich Paul (agent) came out and said he wanted a move away. Everyone then starts saying Rich Paul is a monster etc. But Rich Paul doesn’t say anything Anthony Davis doesn’t want him to say or he would get fired.
 

devilish

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I understand your adoration of 90s Serie A, and of course Messi and Iniesta might be less effective if they could simply be cleaned out in every tackle. But the game has changed and there is no guarantee that players of the 90s would cope with the tactics, laws and different kind of physicality of today. As you said yourself, the rules favoured defenders then, which is why I often watch games of that era and marvel at how much more skill is on display today.

It would be weird if football is the only field of sporting endeavour in which 30 years of tactical innovation and sports science resulted in sportsmen that couldn't compete with what went before..
I have to disagree with that. Assuming that both lived in the same era, obeying the same rules and getting the same training then I still Milan of the 3 dutch men would win.

a- Milan lacked the likes of Gentile, Vinnie Jones or Goikoetxea who would bully players out of the ball through hook or crook. Baresi, Costacurta and Maldini were tough but they were incredibly intelligent with the ball. Meanwhile the likes of Rijkaard and Ancelotti were more cultured and intelligent with the ball then the top DMs that came later in the day. I'd choose Rijkaard ahead of Keane and Carrick. That how ridiculously good he was.

b- if the rules shift to favour the forwards then I shiver at the thought of Barcelona's not so great defence facing an un restrained Van Basten and Gullit + Donadoni's dribbling.

So this is how I think the game would evolve. Barca will initially dominate midfield as they usually do. AC Milan are able to take the hits. Baresi, Maldini, Costacurta and Tassotti will handle the pressure. AC Milan will adapt quickly, Ancelotti would be barking at the his players, Colombo will give his heart as usual, Donadoni will help midfield more and Gullit will drop deeper. Then a quick counter, Van Basten comes one to one against the magnificent Pique......should I add more?
 

chromepaxos

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I have to disagree with that. Assuming that both lived in the same era, obeying the same rules and getting the same training then I still Milan of the 3 dutch men would win.

a- Milan lacked the likes of Gentile, Vinnie Jones or Goikoetxea who would bully players out of the ball through hook or crook. Baresi, Costacurta and Maldini were tough but they were incredibly intelligent with the ball. Meanwhile the likes of Rijkaard and Ancelotti were more cultured and intelligent with the ball then the top DMs that came later in the day. I'd choose Rijkaard ahead of Keane and Carrick. That how ridiculously good he was.

b- if the rules shift to favour the forwards then I shiver at the thought of Barcelona's not so great defence facing an un restrained Van Basten and Gullit + Donadoni's dribbling...
Perhaps, but you have shifted the goalposts to is one of the greatest teams in history better than another of the greatest teams in history? You began by working off the claim that 90s Serie A had quality running all through it, now you want us to only talk about Milan.

If we are going to do speculative history, isn't the idea that Pep's tiki-taka simply bewilders Milan and bypasses Rijkaard just before Iniesta pulls Baresi out of position so Messi can rifle into the corner just as likely? I would argue more so. Tactical innovation counts.
 

Litch

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Generational talent in an era that's wrong for him and the club. These signing are when you have the structure and foundation in place with the right mixture of youth and experience. If CR joined us at 23/24 he would have struggled in this team. Sadly we are going to have to sell the jewel in our crown in order that we can pick up the square pegs for the right holes, and maybe years from now we will be better placed to give a world class talent a team he can focus on being what he does best without the worry about back filling what others can't do then being criticised for it....
 

Fletchageddon

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The problem with Pogba is Pogba. He cares only for himself. He doesn't lift those around him or have that winning mentality. Ronaldo was absolutely pathetic in his behaviour towards the end here but at least he was on the pitch trying to win.

He's gone and it's for the best. Our dip in form coincided with him being around the squad again. He's incredibly talented but a twat.
 

cyril C

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His mind is gone, and his agent makes sure he is looking at greener pasture. Problem is no club is making concrete offer other than swapping him for pensioner.
 

RedRonaldo

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I'm not saying we're close.

He was recruited specifically to help with that. He is part of the problem. He is not bigger than the club. We're not here to accomodate him. He's paid to do a job that he is failing to do.
Statistically speaking he has been by far our best player last season, so I think he is least of our problems (at least for last season), unless you totally buy into media hate and Mourinho “virus” claim.
 

RedRonaldo

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Felix aint worth 126 and should never have cost such a stupid amount. It's not a good argument.

As I say, we're Arsenal now but worse as unlike Wenger's Arsenal, we can't even guarantee CL football, so we're Moyes's Everton if you like. Expect therefore our top players to want out, just as they do at every other top 5th-6th club around the World.

Rooney was a MASSIVE Everton fan but pushed for the United move because Everton were a 5-6th placed team. Everton could have asked for 45m for Rooney but if you're a lesser club, you gotta understand your place and how upset some top players will be if you force them to stay.

Pogba telling the club he was desperate to leave last Summer because of the choices the club had made (new long term rebuilding plan with an unproven manager) should have meant they did everything to either pacify him (better manager, better players) or make a deal happen. They did neither, and just expected him to "suck it up", and now we're in this mess. At least Everton and Arsenal understood their place, we don't.
That’s how the current market works though.
Felix 126m
Pepe 74m
Maguire 80m
Zaha rated at 80m
Maddison rated at 80-100m

Hence Pogba should be value at 120-150m
Imagine we sold Pogba for 100m, and use same amount to buy Maddison (80m market value + 20m United tax)... not saying Maddison is a far lesser player, but the whole world would have laughed at us for sure.
 

Kappa123

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Anyone would be better, he just doesn't want to play here. A player like James Rodriguez would absolutely light up Old Trafford in comparison even though he's considered washed up by most. People have rose-tinted goggle I'm afraid.
 

In Rainbows

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So we're a dozen other players. He was also instrumental in the worst.

If? There's always an "if" with old Poggers isn't there? He's just as likely to be hogging the ball whilst the forwards are left stranded, having made their runs in vain.
You're not making as good of a point as you think you are. You haven't denied that he would be the best at spotting the runs of our forwards and finding them with a pass.
 

The Urban Goose

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Generational talent
He really isn't.

He's talented, of course, but that phrase is reserved for the likes of Maradona, Ronaldo, Zidane, Messi and CRonaldo.

Pogba hasn't even proven himself to be of Lampard or Gerrard quality yet, never mind Scholes.

And before anyone starts with comments relating to his show pony tricks - forget his flashes of brilliance, which of those four (fat Frank, Stevie Me, Scholsey or Pogba) would you rather have in your team?
 

DFreshKing

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He really isn't.

He's talented, of course, but that phrase is reserved for the likes of Maradona, Ronaldo, Zidane, Messi and CRonaldo.

Pogba hasn't even proven himself to be of Lampard or Gerrard quality yet, never mind Scholes.

And before anyone starts with comments relating to his show pony tricks - forget his flashes of brilliance, which of those four (fat Frank, Stevie Me, Scholsey or Pogba) would you rather have in your team?
100%, he is a very good player with talent but generational talent? not by a long shot. He has the potential to be if his head and heart were in it fully but he said himself he wanted a new challenge, that desire to leave would affect anyone's performance level. I don't see him ever hitting the heights his ability could have afforded him.
 

GoldanoGraham

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For sure Pogba is a great talent. Have we seen it at Utd? No. Are we going to see it at Utd? No.

We are not compatible at this time unfortunately.

He needs to be surrounded by better quality to allow him to play his way without asking him to do tasks that do not suit him.

We never put the right midfield players around him and expected too much from him.

it’s best he moves on now as this constant distraction helps nobody and he clearly wants to go - we just need a realistic fee for him.
 

JoaquinJoaquin

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A bit like Alexis last season, I genuinely forget he plays for us at times. Think he will be moved on for funds to buy another midfielder regardless.
 

TRUERED89

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Agree with this post, except for the agent part, Paul Pogba employs Mina Raiola and not the other way round.

A bit like in basketball when Anthony Davis wanted to be traded from the Pelicans, Rich Paul (agent) came out and said he wanted a move away. Everyone then starts saying Rich Paul is a monster etc. But Rich Paul doesn’t say anything Anthony Davis doesn’t want him to say or he would get fired.
Exactly, no further discussion needed on this point!
 

abdo99

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Even in a injury ravaged season he still has more passes and defensive duels success per 90 than anyone and ranks first for through passes completed in this team. He is the complete midfielder and in a league of his own tbh.

He will do great things when he is playing for a top team that doesn't waste his amazing passing like the chances that were bottled by Ibraimovic, Lukaku, Rashford, Mata here..
 

Massive Spanner

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That’s how the current market works though.
Felix 126m
Pepe 74m
Maguire 80m
Zaha rated at 80m
Maddison rated at 80-100m

Hence Pogba should be value at 120-150m
Imagine we sold Pogba for 100m, and use same amount to buy Maddison (80m market value + 20m United tax)... not saying Maddison is a far lesser player, but the whole world would have laughed at us for sure.
A bit like letting Smalling go on loan and buying Maguire for £80m, then.
 

Litch

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He really isn't.

He's talented, of course, but that phrase is reserved for the likes of Maradona, Ronaldo, Zidane, Messi and CRonaldo.

Pogba hasn't even proven himself to be of Lampard or Gerrard quality yet, never mind Scholes.

And before anyone starts with comments relating to his show pony tricks - forget his flashes of brilliance, which of those four (fat Frank, Stevie Me, Scholsey or Pogba) would you rather have in your team?
Football is all about opinions I guess. The phrase generational talent isn't about comparing him to other generations, it's about comparing him to his own era. Said this many times, how many world class players show their ability consistently in teams outside of the top 4 in pretty much any league in the world. All those players you mentioned played with other world class players. Even CR when he left here in a very average team at the end, immediately took his game to another level once he joined Real.
Have a look a World Cup winner and Juve player Pogba and compare him to the Utd one playing along side Young, Smalling, Jones, Shaw, Felliani, Matic et al. Look how toxic the club was last year under Jose?

Whilst we want to apportion blame on Pogba and I'm sure he wouldn't be happy with his time here, his ability as a footballer has already been demonstrated at the highest levels in football, and arguably one of the worst periods in Utd' most recent history should not be the barometer of his ability.

Let's be honest, it's been a very long time any player has reached anywhere near their potential since coming here. In fact, most go backwards or stagnated. In fact CR was probably the last player and whilst we can point the finger at these failing players, maybe we need to take a hard look at ourselves for once.
 
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Litch

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A bit like letting Smalling go on loan and buying Maguire for £80m, then.
.....and here's my point. Smalling who most wanted to leave, we virtually will give away, yet one of the best CB in the league puts on a Utd shirt and doesn't look that much better than Smalling? At some point Utd needs to look at why these players aren't able to show their ability here.....